A serious questions for the Jehovah's Witnesses on these threads.

[Keiw]

Wow you really are hornswoggled by the JW Assoc. aren't you? so do you not give any honor to anybody at any time because all are sinners? I hope you never give honor to your wife or xchildren or fellow JW's because they are all sinnewrs and you should give all the glory to God! Or are you just being a hypocrite not realizing the full extent of your comment?

One can praise another for things they do, but ones birth is sole credit to the creator not the created.

 

[Keiw]

1Timothy 3:16


John 20:17,
- Jesus said to her, Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, I am ascending to My Father and your Father and to My God and your God.

Jesus was 100% man and 100% God,

Jesus is speaking from His physical flesh as a man, and to My God as showing His likeness to
His physical self being lower than the Father,
Hebrews 2:9,
- but we see Jesus who was made a little lower than the angels(because of His taking on the flesh of a man) for the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that He by the grace of God might taste death for everyone.

Jesus is not teaching He has a God, there is no other God but Yahweh.

1Timothy 3:16,
- and without CONTROVERSY great is the mystery of godliness
God was manifested in the flesh
Justified in the Spirit
Seen by angels
Preached among gentiles
Believed on in the world
Received up in glory

Here is Jesus back in heaven as a spirit--Rev 3:12, stressing 4 x in a single paragraph that he has a God.
God was manifest in the flesh--Jesus was his image( Coll 1:15) an image is not the real McCoy.

 

[Titus]

Here is Jesus back in heaven as a spirit--Rev 3:12, stressing 4 x in a single paragraph that he has a God.
God was manifest in the flesh--Jesus was his image( Coll 1:15) an image is not the real McCoy.

Strange, a god? The Bible confirms there is only one God.
You need to repent of your polytheism.
Ephesians 4:5,6
- one Lord, one faith one baptism
-one God and Father of all who is above all and through all and in you all.

Explain how the Bible teaches more than ONE God?

 

[Titus]

One can praise another for things they do, but ones birth is sole credit to the creator not the created.

No credit to the mother that birthed you?
I'm sure that makes Mary mother of Jesus and your mother feel real good.
Women played no part in Jesus' birth!

 

[Titus]

-Rev 3:12, stressing 4 x in a single paragraph that he has a God.

Jesus has a Father that is God

Jesus has a Father

The Father is God

Therefore Jesus has a God(Father)

Jesus has a Father that Father is God.

Nowhere in Revelation does Jesus imply that He also is not God. You have to insert that into the text.
Likewise you have to insert Jesus is seperate from the God that is a God(Father)

This is the 3 persons of God i.e. Godhead

4 x in a single paragraph that he has a God.

Jesus has a Father(God) it's that simple.
Stop, inserting presupposition theology into the word of God.

 

[Titus]

Here is Jesus back in heaven as a spirit--Rev 3:12, stressing 4 x in a single paragraph that he has a God.
God was manifest in the flesh--Jesus was his image( Coll 1:15) an image is not the real McCoy

To show you how bad of Bible students Jehovah Witnesses are, I'm going to change My God with Father in Revelation 3:12,
- He who overcomes I will make him a pillar in the temple of My Father and he shall go out no more.
I will write on him the name of My Father and the name of the city of My Father the new Jerusalem which comes down out of heaven from My Father and I will write on him My new name.

It's that simple.

 

[Titus]

Jesus was his image( Coll 1:15) an image is not the real McCoy.

God is invisible to us, thus Jesus not in His true form(Spirit) but man in the flesh represents God on earth.
The God no physical human can see!
We would die if we saw God in His true form!
Exodus 33:20

 

[Nancy]

You know that we are happy to answer any legitimate questions...but we also know that some people jump to erroneous conclusions and then make accusations based on false information.....are you one of those?

First of all we need to clarify....we are NOT the Watchtower......we are Jehovah's Witnesses, and we identify as Christ's disciples. If others do not believe as we do, then that is between them and the god they worship. We will state our beliefs and what scripture backs them up and leave to the readers to decide if it rings true for them. God will do the rest.

It never seems to occur to those in Christendom that they do not have a single occasion that is celebrated religiously, that does not have pagan roots. Why borrow pagan celebrations and customs as if these somehow don't offend the true God?

According to 2 Corinthians 6:14-18, we are not to combine the truth with false religious customs or beliefs. We can show you where all your celebrations come from. "What portion does a believer share with an unbeliever?"


These are not legitimate occasions for Christ's disciples. The reason is stated here. No sharing with spiritually "unclean" false religious practices.

Paul wrote....
"Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness? 15 What accord has Christ with Belial? (the devil) Or what portion does a believer share with an unbeliever? 16 What agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; as God said,

“I will make my dwelling among them and walk among them,
and I will be their God,
and they shall be my people.
17 Therefore go out from their midst,
and be separate from them, says the Lord,
and touch no unclean thing;
then I will welcome you,
18 and I will be a father to you,
and you shall be sons and daughters to me,
says the Lord Almighty.”

We have to "go out from those" who try to combine truth with pagan celebrations...otherwise God will not take us in as his "sons and daughters"....

You can do whatever you wish, because we are not your judge......you don't have to answer to us at all....but you do have to answer to Jesus Christ...the judge of us all....and you will never be able to claim ignorance of these facts.



The Jews and early Christians were Jewish and followed their own calendar.
Do you know who retained the names of the pagan gods? It was Pope Gregory (that's why its called the Gregorian calendar) The Julian calendar was introduced by Julius Caesar in 46 B.C.E., to give the Roman people a solar-year time arrangement in place of the lunar year. The Julian calendar consists of 365 days in a year, with the exception that on each fourth year (leap year), one day is added, to make it 366 days. However, in the course of time, it was found that the Julian calendar was inaccurate, so in 1582, Pope Gregory XIII introduced a slight revision, instituting what is now known as the Gregorian calendar.

Gregory had a really good opportunity as Pope to change the names of those months and days of the week.....yet he didn't...perhaps we need to ask the Catholic church why he didn't.

We have to live in the world.....so what they call their days and months has nothing to do with us. What makes you think that is something we have jurisdiction over?

The world will do what the world will do.....we are not concerned with what the world does...we are told to be "no part" of it.....they can call their days and months whatever they want. God will change it all in his due time.

If you don't know the pagan roots of what you celebrate as "Christian" events, then perhaps you need to read 2 Corinthians 6:14-18 again, and understand that God was there when the pagans were serving their false gods with all the same customs as people take part in today.

Jesus is not honored at all in what has become a "greedfest" of disgusting commercialism. Who is the main focus at Christmastime....not Jesus.
You see those nativity scenes in the mall with the wise men and the baby Jesus in the manger? The magi were never there. By the time they got to find him by following the star to Herod in Jerusalem, he was no longer a newborn. The star led them to a man who was a jealous tyrant and who had innocent babies put to death to save his family dynasty from any new "King of the Jews".
Only once Herod had hatched his murderous plot did the star lead them to the "young child" who by then was living in a house with his parents. God warned them not to return to Herod. They were dupes, used by satan to destroy the child before he even had a chance to grow up.

Ever wondered why Santa is an anagram of satan?

Do you wonder where the word "Easter" came from....it's not in the Bible because Easter was the name of a pagan fertility goddess whose emblems were rabbits and eggs.....where is the honor for Christ in that?

Sounds like you need to do some homework.....its all online so no one has an excuse for ignorance.

Hello A.J.!
You have many good points. I too have been over many years now, pulled away from these "Christian" holidays.
You're post is very concise and easily understood; yours do tend to be

Unrelated: What position do Jehovah's Witnesses take on cremation? My guess would be a big NO, lol.
What of Christians who may not be able to have a traditional burial? What happens in a case like that?
I will wait for your reply...

Good catch with the anagram of Santa...

"Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? "

Is this distinguishing between the practice itself as being an "unbeliever"? Because many families have only believers in the home gathering together. Blissfully ignorant of ancient pagan practices will have a surprise birthday party with hats, silly little blow horn thingies...cake and other pleasant things, games, gifts...this is not a Christian practice, birthdays I mean.

I realize that the only "birthdays celebrated in the bible are not Christian...hence-Herodias goading her daughter into asking for JTB's head for the birthday present. Not sure but I do think there is at least another birthday celebration but, not sure where.

Easter has no meaning to me, I call it "Passover as that is what it is to me. I have passed from death to life! He has forgiven my sins! And, He does not leave us without His presence, strength, and encouragement after His ascension - "The Helper, Holy Spirit"...

Days of the week? Meh, yes they are named after the pagan gods yet, God looks to the heart and, gives no credence to the outside of the cup.

Bless you sister.

 

[Titus]

Because many families have only believers in the home gathering together. Blissfully ignorant of ancient pagan practices

Not so!

Genesis 21:8,
- so the child grew and was weaned and Abraham made a great feast on the same day that Isaac was weaned.

Point is Gods people had celebrations for their children.
Christians can celebrate their children's birth seperate and apart from old pagan practices.

All false doctrines have some scriptural truth in them.
If a faithful Christian believes and practises this truth that is also taught in a pagan doctrine.
That does not make the Christian a practicing pagan

Likewise if a secular celebration like birthdays has some religious group from the past practise birthdays as a religious pagan day.
This does not make a Christian or non-Christian who celebrates birthdays practicing paganism.

Can anyone here prove that every culture that has ever lived on earth that celebrates birthdays did so out of a religious pagan practice?
No, you cannot.
So, the accusation is moot.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Hello A.J.!
You have many good points. I too have been over many years now, pulled away from these "Christian" holidays.
You're post is very concise and easily understood; yours do tend to be

Thank you Nancy, I find that the truth, even though inconvenient in this world, attracts the truly honest hearted. They will sacrifice what they love to uphold it, not making excuses to keep doing what they love even if it is offensive to God. If people don’t think that the small things matter, then they need to read Luke 16:10.

Unrelated: What position do Jehovah's Witnesses take on cremation? My guess would be a big NO, lol.
What of Christians who may not be able to have a traditional burial? What happens in a case like that?
I will wait for your reply...

We have no reason to believe that cremation is against God’s law. Since God’s promise is to resurrect the dead no matter the circumstances of how their death occurred......we can think of those who may have been consumed in a volcano eruption, or taken by a wild animal and their remains consumed by them....a body is just that. The person is no longer alive and that body will decompose as a means of returning to the earth.

Jehovah said that humans will “return to the dust”.....so cremation to me is just hastening the process...it is of course a matter of personal choice. Many JW’s prefer burial and I am sure that no matter where a person’s remains end up, nothing will prevent Jehovah from fulfilling his promise through Jesus....
John 5:28-29...
“Do not be amazed at this, for the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, and those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment.”

Good catch with the anagram of Santa...

Not many will make the connection....one letter in the wrong place can make all the difference.

"Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? "

Is this distinguishing between the practice itself as being an "unbeliever"? Because many families have only believers in the home gathering together. Blissfully ignorant of ancient pagan practices will have a surprise birthday party with hats, silly little blow horn thingies...cake and other pleasant things, games, gifts...this is not a Christian practice, birthdays I mean.

I realize that the only "birthdays celebrated in the bible are not Christian...hence-Herodias goading her daughter into asking for JTB's head for the birthday present. Not sure but I do think there is at least another birthday celebration but, not sure where.

Yes, there is no end to how satan can make fools of us humans in our “enjoyment” in these gatherings... “blissfully ignorant” is exactly what they are, and boy don’t they get mad when you point out the inconvenient truth to them!?
Do they love the truth, or do they want to justify what they enjoy, regardless of how God feels about these things. We are to have NO share with unbelievers....I find it difficult to understand how they can read right over that and still try to justify their merry making. We can have wonderful family and friends ‘get togethers’ without a single pagan based occasion to do so. We can give a surprise gift to someone simply because we want to and because we love them....no “occasion” necessary.

There are only two birthdays mentioned in the Bible...Herod as you mentioned, whose birthday celebration ended with the death of John B...and the other was Pharaoh in the time when Joseph was imprisoned. Two of Pharaoh’s servants were there in the prison with him and it was revealed to Joseph that one of them would lose his life....that came true. So birthdays are not mentioned in a good way in scripture.
Not a single birthdate is recorded in any part of God’s word. It was an entirely pagan custom and associated with divination and astrology, which God forbade his worshippers to participate in. (Deuteronomy 18:9-12)

Easter has no meaning to me, I call it "Passover as that is what it is to me. I have passed from death to life! He has forgiven my sins! And, He does not leave us without His presence, strength, and encouragement after His ascension - "The Helper, Holy Spirit"...

Jesus celebrated his last Passover with his faithful apostles and instituted a new covenant with them before his arrest, illegal trial, and death the following day.
They didn’t even change the name of the pagan goddess in whose honor the event was celebrated. “Astarte” (pronounced Easter) was a fertility goddess and her emblems were rabbits and eggs....it’s disgusting what people will do to offend the God they claim to worship. Jehovah tolerated no worship of other gods. (Ex 20:3)

Days of the week? Meh, yes they are named after the pagan gods yet, God looks to the heart and, gives no credence to the outside of the cup.

Bless you sister.

Amazing that Pope Gregory had his new calendar made, but kept the names of the pagan gods in the months and days of the week. Goes to show how faithful the Roman Catholic church was from the early days of its corrupt leadership.

Blessings to you too Nancy.....Jesus said we would “know the truth and the truth would set us free”.....free from all those shackles that the world has adopted, holding them captive to things that are empty and meaningless.....not to mention, expensive. The god of commerce does a roaring trade.
......the truth is very liberating isn’t it?

 

[Keiw]

Strange, a god? The Bible confirms there is only one God.
You need to repent of your polytheism.
Ephesians 4:5,6
- one Lord, one faith one baptism
-one God and Father of all who is above all and through all and in you all.

Explain how the Bible teaches more than ONE God?

A god is not calling that one God--2 Cor 4:4 satan is called-god, it was not calling him God--your reasoning is false. Only God capitol G is God. Thus the reality is switched on you. Because if the word is God, then in plain english the second line reads-And God was with God= impossible.

 

[Keiw]

No credit to the mother that birthed you?
I'm sure that makes Mary mother of Jesus and your mother feel real good.
Women played no part in Jesus' birth!

More credit even to ones mother than the created one as well. But SELF makes the created one celebrate-self on their date of birth. The way of the world. God put 2 birthday celebrations in his written word, both by the wicked to show how he felt about that.

 

[Keiw]

Jesus has a Father that is God

Jesus has a Father

The Father is God

Therefore Jesus has a God(Father)

Jesus has a Father that Father is God.

Nowhere in Revelation does Jesus imply that He also is not God. You have to insert that into the text.
Likewise you have to insert Jesus is seperate from the God that is a God(Father)

This is the 3 persons of God i.e. Godhead


Jesus has a Father(God) it's that simple.
Stop, inserting presupposition theology into the word of God.

Then how come Jesus has to hand the kingdom( 1Cor 15:24-28) back to his God and Father and subject himself)= forever,

 

[RR144]

If they did that, that would be one more thing to criticize them for. "Look, they published their own Bible, now they're publishing their own calendar."

Truth is, we're surrounded by paganism, and some things you just can't avoid. There are plenty of Christian denominations and Christians who do not celebrate Christmas and other holidays knowing of their pagan origins.

I'm not a JW, but I don't celebrate anything holidays. I do observe the Lord's memorial. Yes, the JW's are not the only ones who observe the memorial.

 

[Titus]

In 1822 a Greek scholar ( A. Kneeland) translated the NT from the Lexicons, comparing Greek to English side by side-to prove to the world-- a god is correct. 19 other translations did it correct.

You are making the claim Jesus is a god.
The burden of proof is on you to prove
What that means?
I'm very interested in your explanation.

 

[Titus]

Only God capitol G is God. Thus the reality is switched on you. Because if the word is God, then in plain english the second line reads-And God was with God= impossible.

There is only God with a capitol G. I agree
Quote: "Because if the word is God(meaning Jesus) then in plain english the second line reads- And God(Father) was with God(Son) = impossible"

Sir, it is true there is only one capital G God in the Bible only when all three persons are spoken of.

Where you are making an error in your critical thinking is putting God as ONE person.

If God was one person then yes, it would be impossible to have two capital G's in John 1:1.

The reality is Three persons are ONE God.

Therefore when God is described in the Bible as Father, Son, Holy Spirit.
It would appear as three capital G's

Because those 3 persons together make ONE God, it is still One capital G God in the Bible.

The Bible cannot help but use two capital G's in John 1:1 because it is referring to the one G God,
In two seperate persons.
Two capital G's are therefore possible because those two persons are ONE.

Passages that use the term God or Father are written as one capital G because Father is one person in the Godhead. The word God can be representing all three persons in the Godhead, alltogether are ONE capital G.

In this earthly realm there are natural laws that God created.
Mathematics is a natural law of this matter based universe.

But in the spiritual realm the laws of math no longer apply.
The spiritual realm is governed by spiritual laws.

On earth,
1(G) + 1(G) + 1(G) = 3 G's

God is Spirit not matter
John 4:24,
- God is Spirit and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.

Therefore the natural laws of this material universe do not apply to a supernatural being.

The equation with God is,
1Father(God) + 1Son(God) + 1Holy Spirit(God) = 1G God

Three persons in One.

 

[Aunty Jane]

I'm not a JW, but I don't celebrate anything holidays. I do observe the Lord's memorial. Yes, the JW's are not the only ones who observe the memorial.

May I ask with whom you share this commemoration? Do you have a global brotherhood who joins you in this very important occasion?

We cannot be Christians in isolation.....not locally, nationally or even internationally....we are to be one global body of Christians who all believe the same truths, (Acts 10:34-35) and who love one another enough to take care of each other in all trials, as Jesus said we should.....the second of the two greatest commandments, is to love your neighbor as yourself. (Matt 22:34-40)
The Memorial is the only one Jesus commanded his disciples to "keep doing this in remembrance of me". To remember his death as it paid the price of our redemption.

 

[face2face]

I'm not a JW, but I don't celebrate anything holidays. I do observe the Lord's memorial. Yes, the JW's are not the only ones who observe the memorial.

The JW's ironically remember the one who said "salvation is of the Jews" however, they have cast off natural Israel as having any hope of the Kingdom. This will present a rather major issue for them when he returns to reestablish the Kingdom of Israel in the earth. It's one of the issues in their statement of faith which will need amendment.

 

[Nancy]

Thank you Nancy, I find that the truth, even though inconvenient in this world, attracts the truly honest hearted. They will sacrifice what they love to uphold it, not making excuses to keep doing what they love even if it is offensive to God. If people don’t think that the small things matter, then they need to read Luke 16:10.

We have no reason to believe that cremation is against God’s law. Since God’s promise is to resurrect the dead no matter the circumstances of how their death occurred......we can think of those who may have been consumed in a volcano eruption, or taken by a wild animal and their remains consumed by them....a body is just that. The person is no longer alive and that body will decompose as a means of returning to the earth.

Jehovah said that humans will “return to the dust”.....so cremation to me is just hastening the process...it is of course a matter of personal choice. Many JW’s prefer burial and I am sure that no matter where a person’s remains end up, nothing will prevent Jehovah from fulfilling his promise through Jesus....
John 5:28-29...
“Do not be amazed at this, for the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, and those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment.”


Not many will make the connection....one letter in the wrong place can make all the difference.

Yes, there is no end to how satan can make fools of us humans in our “enjoyment” in these gatherings... “blissfully ignorant” is exactly what they are, and boy don’t they get mad when you point out the inconvenient truth to them!?
Do they love the truth, or do they want to justify what they enjoy, regardless of how God feels about these things. We are to have NO share with unbelievers....I find it difficult to understand how they can read right over that and still try to justify their merry making. We can have wonderful family and friends ‘get togethers’ without a single pagan based occasion to do so. We can give a surprise gift to someone simply because we want to and because we love them....no “occasion” necessary.

There are only two birthdays mentioned in the Bible...Herod as you mentioned, whose birthday celebration ended with the death of John B...and the other was Pharaoh in the time when Joseph was imprisoned. Two of Pharaoh’s servants were there in the prison with him and it was revealed to Joseph that one of them would lose his life....that came true. So birthdays are not mentioned in a good way in scripture.
Not a single birthdate is recorded in any part of God’s word. It was an entirely pagan custom and associated with divination and astrology, which God forbade his worshippers to participate in. (Deuteronomy 18:9-12)

Jesus celebrated his last Passover with his faithful apostles and instituted a new covenant with them before his arrest, illegal trial, and death the following day.
They didn’t even change the name of the pagan goddess in whose honor the event was celebrated. “Astarte” (pronounced Easter) was a fertility goddess and her emblems were rabbits and eggs....it’s disgusting what people will do to offend the God they claim to worship. Jehovah tolerated no worship of other gods. (Ex 20:3)

Amazing that Pope Gregory had his new calendar made, but kept the names of the pagan gods in the months and days of the week. Goes to show how faithful the Roman Catholic church was from the early days of its corrupt leadership.

Blessings to you too Nancy.....Jesus said we would “know the truth and the truth would set us free”.....free from all those shackles that the world has adopted, holding them captive to things that are empty and meaningless.....not to mention, expensive. The god of commerce does a roaring trade.
......the truth is very liberating isn’t it?

Thank you for your "right on" answers. The more time goes on, the more our eyes (at least, mine do) are opened. I cannot bring this stuff up with my brothers and sisters, the celebrating Holidays and birthdays. They think me "legalistic". You'd think they would realize the opposite of legalistic is lawlessness, lol. And yes, the truth IS liberating

 

[RR144]

The JW's ironically remember the one who said "salvation is of the Jews" however, they have cast off natural Israel as having any hope of the Kingdom. This will present a rather major issue for them when he returns to reestablish the Kingdom of Israel in the earth. It's one of the issues in their statement of faith which will need amendment.

While I agree, that'll never happen. To do so would upset their whole theological structure.