A serious questions for the Jehovah's Witnesses on these threads.

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Wrangler

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Aunty Jane didn't make anything up she asked a question: Did the Jews celebrate a new year or have a new years celebration? The answer is no.
I repeatedly asked Aunty Jane 2 questions she refuses to answer.
  1. What verse in Scripture prohibits celebrating birthdays?
  2. What year is it?
She can't answer my questions by asking her own.
 

Wrangler

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Jesus did not institute a single celebration that you hold dear. Apparently that is something you do not want to hear?
In another thread, I provided evidence that Americans are Christian. Another poster is opposed to such categorization.

Regarding what I celebrate not being instituted by Jesus, my dear, that is not a standard I am holding myself to. Where is such a sentiment in Scripture?
 

Aunty Jane

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In another thread, I provided evidence that Americans are Christian. Another poster is opposed to such categorization.
I too would oppose that notion because it is clearly not true. There is no such thing as a “Christian” nation. What comes out of America, or any other nation for that matter, is clearly not “Christian”. It takes more than a verbal declaration or attendance at church, to make one a disciple of Christ. It has to be a 24/7 commitment.

The horrors we see the nations commit, means that they as a nation cannot be categorised as “Christians”, even though there maybe many in that nation who identify as such. Those who truly follow the teachings of Jesus in their everyday life will not be the majority.......certainly a very large percentage who behave in a very unchristian manner cannot claim to be.

Australia is certainly NOT a nation of believers....but they don’t claim to be, so at least they are honest.
Regarding what I celebrate not being instituted by Jesus, my dear, that is not a standard I am holding myself to. Where is such a sentiment in Scripture?
As I said...what you choose to do, or not do is between you and the god you serve.....
You don’t have to justify yourself to me....I am not your judge.

I have shown you scripture that backs up what I have told you, but you have chosen not to believe me....but what if it’s true? What if the devil has the whole world under his control (1 John 5:19) and he is leading the masses to their death by deceiving them (he is called an angel of light) into thinking that their behaviour in these things doesn’t really matter?

If “few” are ‘on the road to life’ because the entry gate is “narrow” and the way is “cramped”, what do you think Jesus meant? (Matthew 7:13-14)
At the judgment, “many” are going to offer the Jesus their excuses, but he will reject them outright. (Matthew 7:21-23) Why do you think he rejects them? They think that they are doing everything right....
 

Aunty Jane

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I repeatedly asked Aunty Jane 2 questions she refuses to answer.
  1. What verse in Scripture prohibits celebrating birthdays?
  2. What year is it?
She can't answer my questions by asking her own.
That is not true Wrangler.....I answered all your questions with scripture. It was your choice to ignore them.
I asked questions to see what your justification was based on.
 

Wrangler

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Wrangler

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What if the devil has the whole world under his control (1 John 5:19) and he is leading the masses to their death by deceiving them (he is called an angel of light) into thinking that their behaviour in these things doesn’t really matter?
Celebrating Christmas brings millions of people to church, God and Christ on an annual basis. If this is the devil's doing, he's not doing a good job of separating people from God, since Celebrating Christmas brings millions to God.
 

Aunty Jane

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No, you haven't. Either admit that there is no verse that prohibits celebrating birthday or cite the verse.
You don’t believe in the trinity, do you? Where is the verse that states specifically that there is no trinity? You know there isn’t one, but the Bible contains many verses that oppose it.
You will not find a verse particularly concerning the celebration of birthdays in the Bible for the simple reason that Jews did not celebrate them.....they knew these to be the practice of pagans, like the two mentioned in the scriptures....Pharaoh and Herod.

All the first Christians were Jewish....all the Bible writers were Jewish....they would not have celebrated them, or else we would see birthdates recorded in scripture...there are none for worshippers of Jehovah.
 

Aunty Jane

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Celebrating Christmas brings millions of people to church, God and Christ on an annual basis. If this is the devil's doing, he's not doing a good job of separating people from God, since Celebrating Christmas brings millions to God.
And satan’s work is complete.....the “many” are ignorantly traveling the “broad and spacious road to destruction”, unaware of their destination. (Matthew 7:13-14) There is nothing “Christian” about Christmas....you can make Christ appear to be in your celebration, but appearances can be deceptive...the devil knows human nature better then we do. He knows how to bait a trap. His “angel of light” trick works....add gifts, good food and pretty things...and voila! He’s gotcha.

What the devil has done is create a fake Christianity (the weeds of Jesus’ parable) and by means of these celebrations, he is indeed separating people from the true God by getting them to serve a substitute...which is himself. He is the god of this world (1 John 5:19; 2 Cor 4:3-4) which is why Jesus told us not to be any part of it. When the whole world is involved in something, regardless of how it beneficial it appears to be on the surface of it, we should be wary.

Celebrating Christmas brings million to the wrong “god”.....it’s such a clever deception, but one that Christ’s true disciples will not fall for. We are warned not to adopt what the world collectively holds sacred.
 

RLT63

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I trust the Bible too and I can say with certainty that the protestant and catholic churches are not teaching the truth.
Of course only your denomination teaches the truth as discerned from your denomination’s translation of the Bible. Did it ever occur to you that you might be the one who is wrong?
 
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BARNEY BRIGHT

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I repeatedly asked Aunty Jane 2 questions she refuses to answer.
  1. What verse in Scripture prohibits celebrating birthdays?
  2. What year is it?
She can't answer my questions by asking her own.
I think it's interesting that the scriptures very clearly show regarding the celebration of birthdays, it was not a servant of the true God who were celebrating a birthday. Why is that? If celebrating birthdays is so important for the servants of the true God, why is it that God never inspired any man to write down a celebration of someone who was his servant who was celebrating a birthday. When God inspired the scriptures to be written he only associate birthdays with those who were not his true servants, none of his true servants were celebrating a birthday. The point is, the festive celebration of birthdays, doesn't find it's origin from God in the Hebrew or Greek scriptures. The true servants of the true God never celebrated such days.

According to Funk & Wagnalls Standard Dictionary of Fokelore, Mythology, and Legend these celebrations originated from the belief that on a person’s birthday, “evil spirits and influences have the opportunity to attack the celebrants” and that “the presence of friends and the expression of good wishes help to protect the celebrant.” The book The Lore of Birthdays says that in ancient times, birthday records were “essential for the casting of a horoscope” based on “the mystic science of astrology.” This book adds that “birthday candles, in folk belief, are endowed with special magic for granting wishes.”The scriptures show or teach us to have nothing to do with magic, divination, spiritism. (Deuteronomy 18:14; Galatians 5:19-21)

The only commemoration that Christians are required to keep involves, not a birth, but a death, that of Jesus Christ (Luke 22:17-20)This should not be surprising, for the Bible says that “the day of death is better than the day of birth.” (Ecclesiastes 7:1) By the end of his life on earth, Jesus had made a good name with God, making the day of his death more important than the day of his birth.(Hebrews 1:4)

The fact the Bible never refers to a servant of the true God celebrating a birthday, is not simply an oversight, for it does record two birthday celebrations by those not serving God. However, both of those events are presented in a bad light.(Genesis 40:20-22; Mark 6: 21-29)
 
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BARNEY BRIGHT

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Ronald Nolette was wondering why Jehovah's Witnesses condemn people who celebrate Christmas who he says are honoring the birth of Jesus.
Ronald and others can believe all they want that taking things that belong to demons and associating them with God or his only begotten Son is honoring the True God or his only begotten Son Jesus, but that just proves that you're like Solomon who thought having foreign wives who worshipped false Gods was acceptable and which Solomon thought combining what belonged to demons and the true worship of God was acceptable to the true God. The scriptures don't say that Solomon completely forsook the worship at the temple and the offering of sacrifices there. He apparently attempted to practice a sort of interfaith, in order to please his foreign wives. Because of this YHWH God ripped the kingdom away from Solomon
Solomon no longer focused on the precious privilege he had of representing the true God, because the king became immersed in false worship. In time, the entire nation turned apostate, resulting in its destruction in 607 B.C.E. by the Babylonian Empire.
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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What verse is that again that ‘clearly’ shows something about celebrating birthdays again?
There is in scripture of an Egyptian having a birthday celebration related in the Bible, one that true worshipers were not observing. It was the birthday feast of the Pharaoh who ruled while Joseph was in an Egyptian prison. Some of those pagans may have been happy over the feast, yet the birthday was linked to the beheading of the chief of Pharaoh’s bakers.(Genesis 40:18-22)

Another birthday celebration described in the Scriptures is that of Herod Antipas, son of Herod the Great. This birthday celebration is hardly presented in the Bible as just innocent festivity. Rather, it occasioned the beheading of John the Baptizer. Then, “his disciples came up and removed the corpse and buried him and came and reported to Jesus,” who ‘withdrew from there into a lonely place for isolation.’ (Matthew 14:6-13) Do you imagine that those disciples or Jesus felt drawn to the practice of birthday celebrations? In the scriptures it shows only those who are not true servants of the true God as celebrating birthdays. It never shows the true servants of the true God celebrating them.
 
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Aunty Jane

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Then, the words "Christian" and "nation" have no meaning.
In today's world...NO! they do not. What is the definition of a "Christian" from the biblical point of view, as opposed to man's ideas about what constitutes a genuine "Christian" in these last days? What "nation" are the scriptures alluding to when it speaks of those who will replace the nation of Israel? It is no worldly nation. Jesus said that his Kingdom is not of this world.

To the wicked Jewish leaders...."Jesus said to them: “Did you never read in the Scriptures, ‘The stone that the builders rejected, this has become the chief cornerstone. This has come from Jehovah, and it is marvelous in our eyes’? 43 This is why I say to you, the Kingdom of God will be taken from you and be given to a nation producing its fruits. 44 Also, the person falling on this stone will be shattered. As for anyone on whom it falls, it will crush him.”

45 When the chief priests and the Pharisees heard his illustrations, they knew that he was speaking about them. 46 Although they wanted to seize him, they feared the crowds, because these regarded him as a prophet."
(Matthew 21:42-46)

If God says he is not partial concerning what nation or language we are, (Acts 10:34-35) then there is no "nation" on earth who can claim to be of that nation simply by birth as Israel was. The "Israel of God" (Gal 6:16) Paul identified as consisting of both Jewish and Gentile Christians from all nations.

Literal Israel was "abandoned" by God a long time ago because they could never uphold their part of God's covenant with them. Jehovah had the right to terminate their legal agreement on those grounds, but he kept Israel in existence until his part of the covenant was fulfilled. He replaced those who failed to obey him with those who would obey, not only their God and his written word, but also to accept his Christ.

In Devotional Reading today 1 Peter 2:9 NRSV says we are a chosen race of people, which is tied being spiritual off spring of Abraham.

Israel is a nation. What Does the Bible Say about the Modern Nation of Israel?
Who is "we"?

The fleshly nation of Israel were abandoned by God who, throughout their pathetic history, demonstrated that they were exactly as God described them....a stiff-necked, disobedient and rebellious people, whom he had wanted to exterminate at times when they left off from serving him to turn to false gods and religious practices. Even God’s own chosen nation proved that humans cannot serve God for long under the rulership of flawed human kings.

Jesus passed judgment on them and their self righteous religious leaders....
Matthew 23:37-39...NLT...
“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones God’s messengers! How often I have wanted to gather your children together as a hen protects her chicks beneath her wings, but you wouldn’t let me. And now, look, your house is abandoned and desolate. For I tell you this, you will never see me again until you say, ‘Blessings on the one who comes in the name of the LORD !

The LORD is Yahweh......and in almost 2000 years, the Jews as a nation have never accepted, let alone blessed Jesus as the Christ....the one who came in the name of his God and Father, Yahweh....and they never will...pride won't let them.

So God changed the definition of what it meant to be "Jewish".
In Romans ch 2 Paul explains what the problem was with natural Israel....
He said..."If, now, you are a Jew in name and rely on law and take pride in God, 18 and you know his will and approve of things that are excellent because you are instructed out of the Law, 19 and you are convinced that you are a guide of the blind, a light for those in darkness, 20 a corrector of the unreasonable ones, a teacher of young children, and having the framework of the knowledge and of the truth in the Law— 21 do you, however, the one teaching someone else, not teach yourself? You, the one preaching, “Do not steal,” do you steal? 22 You, the one saying, “Do not commit adultery,” do you commit adultery? You, the one abhorring idols, do you rob temples? 23 You who take pride in law, do you dishonor God by your transgressing of the Law? 24 For “the name of God is being blasphemed among the nations because of you,” just as it is written."

What was God to do with this people who were the offspring of Abraham, and with whom he had made a covenant, when they repeatedly rebelled against him and disregarded his laws?

Paul identified a new kind of "JEW"..... ones who were circumcised in heart rather than the flesh.....ones who obeyed God's laws rather than ones who bent them to suit themselves.
"For he is not a Jew who is one on the outside, nor is circumcision something on the outside, on the flesh. 29 But he is a Jew who is one on the inside, and his circumcision is that of the heart by spirit and not by a written code. That person’s praise comes from God, not from people."

'Spiritual Israel' was brought into being with the selection of the foundation members of God's elect...his faithful apostles.
Added to these were the ones anointed by God's spirit to become "kings and priests" with Christ in heaven.... Those are the "we" you spoke of.
I am not part of that anointed group, as my hope is entirely earthly. ...the situation Jesus spoke about in the Revelation 21:1-5.
 
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Wrangler

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Do you imagine that those disciples or Jesus felt drawn to the practice of birthday celebrations? In the scriptures it shows only those who are not true servants of the true God as celebrating birthdays. It never shows the true servants of the true God celebrating them.
Not exactly a Scriptural prohibition against celebrating birthdays, is it?

The discernment that is missing from JW doctrine is inferring divine commandments from merely cultural observations.

While circumcision was specifically a point of conflict recorded in Scripture, women wearing hats or dresses are, likewise customs that are not to be applied to new covenant believers. The same with women speaking at churches.

Scripture does not indicate Jesus drove an automobile. Scripture does not indicate Jesus celebrated St Patrick’s Day. Scripture does not indicate Jesus attended modern sporting events. The lack of evidence for it being a prohibition is the fallacy appeal to ignorance. The same with other man-made cultural traditions, including celebrating birthdays.

If JW’s don’t want to celebrate birthday’s, we all know it is not a requirement to be a Christian. It’d be nice if you and @Aunty Jane could simply admit it is not explicitly prohibited in Scripture.