A SPIN-OFF from "JESUS IS GOD PART 2"

[Heart2Soul]

Yes. It has to be revealed, and it still has to be revealed. As I was stating elsewhere, when Thomas declared to Jesus "My Lord and my God," Jesus did not correct Him.

I believe the reason it has to be revealed is because all men would have bowed down if He had first come in power, even though they did not truly love Him. They would have bowed down only because they recognized superior power.

This is stated in 1 Corinthians 2:

6 We speak wisdom among those who are mature, yet not the wisdom of this age, nor of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing. 7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God ordained before the ages for our glory, 8 which none of the rulers of this age knew; for had they known, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. 9 But as it is written: “Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, nor have entered into the heart of man the things which God has prepared for those who love Him.” 10 But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit.

The rulers of this age, including Pilate and the Emperor himself, would have never crucified Jesus if they knew He had far more power than they did, and could call on a legion of angels if He wanted to. Rulers are into preserving their positions of power, not dooming them to destruction, so why make someone like that your enemy? Thus, had they known, they would have laughed the Pharisees out of the building who wanted Him crucified, or worse. They made have had them killed instead, to show fealty to the Lord Jesus Christ.

But that's just it. God didn't choose the powerful of this world, He choose the lowly and the despised. When it says "We speak wisdom among those who are mature, yet not the wisdom of this age, nor of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing," Paul was actually speaking of Daniel 7, where it was promised long ago that the saints of God would suffer persecution at the hands of the Antichrist, but that in the end the kingdoms of this world would be handed over to them for being faithful to God, and the meek would thus inherit the earth. This is what he meant by, "Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, nor have entered into the heart of man the things which God has prepared for those who love Him." He meant their rewards when all was said and done would outweigh their sufferings, and be far better than they could have ever dreamed. It's why Paul also said, "Our light afflictions build for us a far more exceeding weight of glory."

So for the saints of God it has always been about discerning who Jesus really is, and believing it, so that when the time comes for us to be rewarded, it will be because we made Him Lord over our lives when we did not have to out of fear, but because we wanted to out of love. And this is the wisdom of God which was "hidden in a mystery."

So Jesus never referred to Himself as the Son of God but never corrected those who did...an earlier post quoted a scripture where Jesus quoted being called the Son of God...but that was not Him directly saying it.

I never understood that Jesus was God. I had to be told by the Holy Spirit which was done some 10 years ago. So I can't refute that idea.

So you are blessed like Peter was...the revealing of Jesus true nature by the Holy Spirit. Praise God!

 

[Heart2Soul]

Matt. 28:9 – “And behold, Jesus met them and greeted them. And they came up and took hold of His feet and worshiped Him.”

John 9:35-38 – “Jesus heard that they had put him out; and finding him, He said, “Do you believe in the Son of Man?” 36He answered and said, “And who is He, Lord, that I may believe in Him?” 37Jesus said to him, “You have both seen Him, and He is the one who is talking with you.” 38 And he said, “Lord, I believe.” And he worshiped Him.”

Heb. 1:6 – “And when He again brings the first-born into the world, He says, ‘And let all the angels of God worship Him.'”

Even the angels worship Christ. Seeing the ten commandments have thou shalt not have any other god's before me, it would seem like a strange thing for God to allow if Jesus was not indeed God in flesh. Anyways I got to go. Bless y'all.

I was praying for understanding this morning, so was on my heart to share.

Excellent point...Amen and Thank You!

 

[farouk]

So Jesus never referred to Himself as the Son of God but never corrected those who did...an earlier post quoted a scripture where Jesus quoted being called the Son of God...but that was not Him directly saying it.

So you are blessed like Peter was...the revealing of Jesus true nature by the Holy Spirit. Praise God!

@Heart2Soul So significant that the Lord Jesus in the Gospels is recorded as saying, 'Father...' (John 17 is a particularly wonderful Filial prayer; truly the 'Lord's Prayer'....)

 

[Kermos]

So Jesus never referred to Himself as the Son of God but never corrected those who did...an earlier post quoted a scripture where Jesus quoted being called the Son of God...but that was not Him directly saying it.

So you are blessed like Peter was...the revealing of Jesus true nature by the Holy Spirit. Praise God!

Why would you post "an earlier post quoted a scripture where Jesus quoted being called the Son of God...but that was not Him directly saying it" when Jesus says "I said, ‘I am the Son of God’" (John 10:36)?

Jesus is literally saying it, and Jesus confirms that Jesus says it - Jesus applies "I am the Son of God" as Jesus' words.

 

[Hidden In Him]

So Jesus never referred to Himself as the Son of God but never corrected those who did...an earlier post quoted a scripture where Jesus quoted being called the Son of God...but that was not Him directly saying it.

Yes, that appears to be so. I was surprised on looking it up, but you are correct. The Father called Him His Son, and the apostles called Him the Son of God, but He did not refer to Himself as such. Reminds me of the verse where He said of His Father, "If I testify of Myself, My testimony is not true. But there is Another that bears witness of Me, and I know that the witness which He witnesses of me is true." (John 5:31-32) The sense is He was deferring to others to testify about who He truly was.

We are such people today.

 

[Heart2Soul]

Yes, that appears to be so. I was surprised on looking it up, but you are correct. The Father called Him His Son, and the apostles called Him the Son of God, but He did not refer to Himself as such. Reminds me of the verse where He said of His Father, "If I testify of Myself, My testimony is not true. But there is Another that bears witness of Me, and I know that the witness which He witnesses of me is true." (John 5:31-32) The sense is He was deferring to others to testify about who He truly was.

We are such people today.

Exactly...good study! I am so glad you started it.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Exactly...good study! I am so glad you started it.

I didn't start it. You did, LoL (and yes, I know what you're referring to).

 

[Enoch111]

⁶² And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

The religious leaders to whom this was addressed would have been familiar with the book of Daniel. And when Christ called Himself "the Son of Man" He was really speaking about the Son of God, who in the form of Man would destroy all the kingdoms of the world, and set up the eternal Kingdom of God on earth.

DANIEL 7: THE KINGDOM OF GOD TO BE ESTABLISHED ON EARTH
9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days [God the Father] did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened...
13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of Man [Christ] came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

This is speaking of the Second Coming of Christ -- "with power and great glory" -- coming in "the clouds of Heaven" (surrounded by all His saints and angels) to destroy His enemies and to set up His Kingdom. See Revelation 19.

 

[Heart2Soul]

The religious leaders to whom this was addressed would have been familiar with the book of Daniel. And when Christ called Himself "the Son of Man" He was really speaking about the Son of God, who in the form of Man would destroy all the kingdoms of the world, and set up the eternal Kingdom of God on earth.

DANIEL 7: THE KINGDOM OF GOD TO BE ESTABLISHED ON EARTH
9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days [God the Father] did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened...
13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of Man [Christ] came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

This is speaking of the Second Coming of Christ -- "with power and great glory" -- coming in "the clouds of Heaven" (surrounded by all His saints and angels) to destroy His enemies and to set up His Kingdom. See Revelation 19.

Yes, agree...I am simply referencing that He speaks of Himself as the Son of man instead of Son of God.

 

[Heart2Soul]

Why would you post "an earlier post quoted a scripture where Jesus quoted being called the Son of God...but that was not Him directly saying it" when Jesus says "I said, ‘I am the Son of God’" (John 10:36)?

Jesus is literally saying it, and Jesus confirms that Jesus says it - Jesus applies "I am the Son of God" as Jesus' words.

I went back and read the whole chapter for context and He was quoting them.

 

[Kermos]

Now check this out...

Here is what I believe it is showing us...Jesus never called Himself "Son of God" because He is God....but always referred to Himself as "Son of man" because He is God made flesh....
But everytime someone else referred to Him as the "Son of God" He did not deny it but to Peter He said:
Matthew 16 (KJV)
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
¹⁵ He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
¹⁶ And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
¹⁷ And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

So I am curious about this and have meditated on it and concluded that it had to be revealed to man by the Father, and then later after His crucifixion it is revealed by the Holy Spirit....so Jesus true nature has to be revealed....amen?

Jesus refers to Himself as the Son of God, and here are passages where Lord Jesus refers to Himself as the Son of God.

"He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God" (John 3:18)

"Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live" (John 5:25).

"do you say of Him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’?" (John 10:36).

"This sickness is not to end in death, but for the glory of God, so that the Son of God may be glorified by it" (John 11:4).

Note the difference in how Lord Jesus refers to Himself as the Son of Man, such as "the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands"
(Matthew 17:12).

 

[Kermos]

I went back and read the whole chapter for context and He was quoting them.

Look carefully at Lord Jesus Christ's words, "I said, ‘I am the Son of God’" (John 10:36).

@Heart2Soul, Jesus Christ says "I said", not "you said", but truly "I said", then Jesus Christ appends Jesus Christ's words of "I am the Son of God" to "I said"; therefore, the context is Jesus Christ quoting Jesus Christ in identifying Jesus Christ as the Son of God.

 

[Heart2Soul]

Look carefully at Lord Jesus Christ's words, "I said, ‘I am the Son of God’" (John 10:36).

@Heart2Soul, Jesus Christ says "I said", not "you said", but truly "I said", then Jesus Christ appends Jesus Christ's words of "I am the Son of God" to "I said"; therefore, the context is Jesus Christ quoting Jesus Christ in identifying Jesus Christ as the Son of God.

But then when I went to look for it...where He said it...I can't find it.

 

[Kermos]

But then when I went to look for it...where He said it...I can't find it.

Are you now agreeing that Jesus was talking about Himself when He says words, "I said, ‘I am the Son of God’" (John 10:36)?

 

[Enoch111]

Yes, agree...I am simply referencing that He speaks of Himself as the Son of man instead of Son of God.

There were times when Christ emphasized His humanity (thus Son of Man). There were other times when He emphasized His deity (thus Son of God). so we need to keep this in balance, and ask ourselves why Jesus chose His words so carefully.

 

[Mayflower]

Here is the traditional music, there are more contemporary versions out there as well.

Here is one of my favorite contemporary renditions...

This is beautiful. Not the melody I know for the song, but I think this fits the words more.

 

[Mayflower]

Eh. Hope no one quoted that. LOL. It is hard to read when I have a monkey on me. LOL

 

[Mayflower]

I like this passage. I really don't know the importance of the point of Jesus Christ directly quoting He is the Son of God. We know He is. The point He was trying to make to the Pharisees was His ACTIONS are what defines Him as such. He said to look at the actions. Instead of arguing over words of who said what, we need to be looking at His ACTIONS too.

John 10:25-38

25 Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all[c]; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”

31 Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him, 32 but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?”

33 “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”

34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods”’[d]? 35 If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be set aside— 36 what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’? 37 Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father. 38 But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.”

 

[Mayflower]

In the context I think "I and the Father are One" = "I am God's Son." Because this is what He was going to be stoned for.

 

[Kermos]

I like this passage. I really don't know the importance of the point of Jesus Christ directly quoting He is the Son of God.

The importance is that Lord Jesus Christ called Himself the Son of God (John 10:33).

It's right there, @Mayflower.

We know He is. The point He was trying to make to the Pharisees was His ACTIONS are what defines Him as such.

And His WORDS define things about Him, see "tell" (John 10:25), see "listen" and "voice" (John 10:27), see "claim" (John 10:33), and see "said" (John 10:36).

He said to look at the actions. Instead of arguing over words of who said what, we need to be looking at His ACTIONS too.

John 10:25-38

25 Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all[c]; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”

31 Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him, 32 but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?”

33 “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”

34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods”’[d]? 35 If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be set aside— 36 what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’? 37 Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father. 38 But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.”

Clearly, both His ACTIONS and His WORDS are of immeasurable value according to His WORDS!