Abortion

[Stan B]

Good for Pope Francis!!!

That figures! You admire the proclamation of the pagan one who worships the Queen of Heaven??

 

[Jack]

No! For thousands of years Halakhic law, "The fetus is considered part of its mother’s body rather than an independent identity until birth."
As for your suggestion that a baby cannot live without food, that also applies to those who are 80 years old.

But the bottom line, is what Scripture has to say, that a fetus does not become a living being until God breathes into its nostrils the BREATH OF LIFE. Gen 2

James 2:13 He shall have judgment without mercy who has shown no mercy.

But it might not be too late for you.

 

[Stan B]

Abortion is murder.

It is not about choice. The unborn baby doesn't get one.

It is not healthcare. The abortion industry only cares about making a profit, not about what is safe and healthy for women.

Many women do not know that their abortions could lead to them not being able to have children later in life.

Abortion disproportionately affects minorities. The founder of planned parenthood, Margeret Sanger was a racist and saw abortion and birth control as a way to control the population of blacks.

It is not about men trying to control women's bodies. Women, and especially post-abortive women are some of the leaders of the pro-life movement.

At 10 weeks, I had my first ultrasound for my current pregnancy. The baby looked like a baby. He or she reacted to the ultrasound probe, wriggled and jumped. He or she had a fast heartbeat.

I have volunteered at a pro life pregnancy center for a year. The staff and volunteers are all women and our clients come from all over the world.

If anyone reading this has had an abortion in their past, I want you to know Jesus has healing and forgiveness for you.

But I will fight for the unborn as long as I live, until unborn babies are protected and safe in America.

Psalm 22:10

10 I was cast upon thee from the womb: thou art my God from my mother's belly.

The onnly thing I see in your entire diatribe is that you and your cult has chosen to add an entirely new law to Scripture; something God didn't choose to add.

That's how demonic anti-God cults are born,; by people like you who reject Scripture, and have chosen to remedy the Bibles's flaws by adding your own laws to the Bible. My concept of utterly Satanic!

 

[Stan B]

James 2:13 He shall have judgment without mercy who has shown no mercy.

But it might not be too late for you.

I don't tend to get all that excited about non-living entities such as road-kill, or the chair in my kitchen. So . . . anyway, do you yet have a scrape of Scripture that disapproves of abortion?? Nothing so far!!

 

[Jack]

I don't tend to get all that excited about non-living entities such as road-kill, or the chair in my kitchen. So . . . anyway, do you yet have a scrape of Scripture that disapproves of abortion?? Nothing so far!!

So you compare babies to "poop" and "road-kill" and call yourself a Christian? Does anyone here agree with Stan?

 

[Adventageous]

Abortion is murder.

It is not about choice. The unborn baby doesn't get one.

It is not healthcare. The abortion industry only cares about making a profit, not about what is safe and healthy for women.

Many women do not know that their abortions could lead to them not being able to have children later in life.

Abortion disproportionately affects minorities. The founder of planned parenthood, Margeret Sanger was a racist and saw abortion and birth control as a way to control the population of blacks.

It is not about men trying to control women's bodies. Women, and especially post-abortive women are some of the leaders of the pro-life movement.

At 10 weeks, I had my first ultrasound for my current pregnancy. The baby looked like a baby. He or she reacted to the ultrasound probe, wriggled and jumped. He or she had a fast heartbeat.

I have volunteered at a pro life pregnancy center for a year. The staff and volunteers are all women and our clients come from all over the world.

If anyone reading this has had an abortion in their past, I want you to know Jesus has healing and forgiveness for you.

But I will fight for the unborn as long as I live, until unborn babies are protected and safe in America.

Psalm 22:10

10 I was cast upon thee from the womb: thou art my God from my mother's belly.

Not all "abortion" is "murder". It depends on how you are nichely defining the word.

Have you read the definitions on Post #223 - Abortion

​

#224 - Abortion​

​

#225 - Abortion​

​

#226 - Abortion​

​

#227 - Abortion​

​

And the conclusionary thoughts in Post #228 - Abortion​

"By the above definitions and uses:​

​

[1] All "miscarriages" (accidental or intentful) are by definition "abortions" or "terminations of pregnancies".​

​

[2] All "abortions" are then by definition not "murder", though some are.​

​

[3] Thus not all "miscarriages" or "abortions" are a crime punishable by God's Law or man's law. though some are. We live in an evil (fallen, sinful) world, and somethings exist due to the fall of mankind since Adam/Eve, and will exist until the return of Jesus Christ in glory.​

​

[4] All that which is "kill(ed)" is not necessarily "murder", though some is.​

​

[5] Thus all "murder" is "kill(ing)", but not all "killing" is "murder".​

​

[6] Capital Punishment (aka Executive Justice) is "killing" (putting to death), but not (necessarily) "murder", though there may be cases in which 'capital punishment' is used as an excuse, or cover, to "murder", in which case it is actually "murder" and not actually "Capital Punishment". God, in scripture, issued orders of Capital Punishment to many nations, and individuals, in which women who were pregnant were also terminated (put to death), along with their pregnancy. In many cases, the 'Holy Roman Empire" issued "Capital Punishment" to cover "murders" (St. Bartholomew's Day Massacre, Hugenots, Waldenses, etc).​

​

[7] The removal of an ectopic pregnancy is not "murder", though it will "kill" the forming "life", at it's expense to preserve, save, heal, the "life" of the "mother" which is in danger, life-threatening. It is still an "abortion" or "termination of pregnancy" (a "miscarriage") by definition.​

​

[8] Many (not all, ie. if full term, but unable to deliver vagnially) C-Sections (Caesarian Sections) are techinically an "abortion", or "termination of pregnancy" by definition, but do not (normally, but in certain instances (accidental, or intentful) can) "kill" the "life" (though in some instances death of the "life" and the "mother" can result from complications, bleeding, sepsis, clotting, accidental, or intenful (in which case it might be "murder", but not necessarily (again, see ectopic, etc))).​

​

[9] Preemies, ususally delivered through C-Section (but not always, some vaginally), in general, have very short and complicated lives, and severe health and growth development issues (this is not to say that they should not have the opportunity anyway), but most are not aware of the enormous costs that follows for the "mother" and "child".​

​

There are other matters which complicate things, including briths.​

​

[A.] Rape (Adult)​

[B.] Rape (Child, post-menses)​

[C.] Incest (Adult)​

[D.] Incest (Child, post-menses)​

[E.] Cancer (Uterine)​

[F.} Cancer (Ovarian)​

[G.] Chromosomal​

[H.] Placental​

[I.] Diseases (like AIDS, HIV, Diabetes)​

[J] State of the Mother (Unconscious, Brain Dead, etc)​

​

etc.​

​

There are cases, in which a girl/female child (post-menses) becomes pregnant through rape or incest, and the life of the little girl/female is endangered by the pregnancy. What to do in such cases? This is a good question. Should the State (which has no children, by definition) be involved in making a decision? Should the physician attending make the decision without the consent of the girl/female and/or her parents/guardians? Should the parents make the decision, since the girl/female is not of legal age to act without the consent of parents/guardians? What are the options available? Termination at earliest stage possible (pill, which will come with complications, bleeding, etc)? Wait until large enough for C-Section, as the girl/female cannot deliver (under normal circumstances) vaginally, and more than likely the removed 'child' die being non-viable in such condition, even if lasts for several days in NICU (Natal Intensive Care Unit) for hundreds of thousands of dollars (which bill is normally footed to the parents/guardians, rather than to the rapist or incestuous persons)? No matter the case, serious mental, psychological, physiological, biological, economical stresses will be placed upon all involved."​

 

[Wynona]

I have no intention on arguing back and forth about this. Im grateful I can say what I came to say and move on.

This is not a topic I can keep a cool head about. Its not cute, nor is it funny to me.

 

[Jack]

Not all "abortion" is "murder". It depends on how you are nichely defining the word.

Have you read the definitions on Post #223 - Abortion

​

#224 - Abortion​

​

#225 - Abortion​

​

#226 - Abortion​

​

#227 - Abortion​

​

And the conclusionary thoughts in Post #228 - Abortion​

"By the above definitions and uses:​

​

[1] All "miscarriages" (accidental or intentful) are by definition "abortions" or "terminations of pregnancies".​

​

[2] All "abortions" are then by definition not "murder", though some are.​

​

[3] Thus not all "miscarriages" or "abortions" are a crime punishable by God's Law or man's law. though some are. We live in an evil (fallen, sinful) world, and somethings exist due to the fall of mankind since Adam/Eve, and will exist until the return of Jesus Christ in glory.​

​

[4] All that which is "kill(ed)" is not necessarily "murder", though some is.​

​

[5] Thus all "murder" is "kill(ing)", but not all "killing" is "murder".​

​

[6] Capital Punishment (aka Executive Justice) is "killing" (putting to death), but not (necessarily) "murder", though there may be cases in which 'capital punishment' is used as an excuse, or cover, to "murder", in which case it is actually "murder" and not actually "Capital Punishment". God, in scripture, issued orders of Capital Punishment to many nations, and individuals, in which women who were pregnant were also terminated (put to death), along with their pregnancy. In many cases, the 'Holy Roman Empire" issued "Capital Punishment" to cover "murders" (St. Bartholomew's Day Massacre, Hugenots, Waldenses, etc).​

​

[7] The removal of an ectopic pregnancy is not "murder", though it will "kill" the forming "life", at it's expense to preserve, save, heal, the "life" of the "mother" which is in danger, life-threatening. It is still an "abortion" or "termination of pregnancy" (a "miscarriage") by definition.​

​

[8] Many (not all, ie. if full term, but unable to deliver vagnially) C-Sections (Caesarian Sections) are techinically an "abortion", or "termination of pregnancy" by definition, but do not (normally, but in certain instances (accidental, or intentful) can) "kill" the "life" (though in some instances death of the "life" and the "mother" can result from complications, bleeding, sepsis, clotting, accidental, or intenful (in which case it might be "murder", but not necessarily (again, see ectopic, etc))).​

​

[9] Preemies, ususally delivered through C-Section (but not always, some vaginally), in general, have very short and complicated lives, and severe health and growth development issues (this is not to say that they should not have the opportunity anyway), but most are not aware of the enormous costs that follows for the "mother" and "child".​

​

There are other matters which complicate things, including briths.​

​

[A.] Rape (Adult)​

[B.] Rape (Child, post-menses)​

[C.] Incest (Adult)​

[D.] Incest (Child, post-menses)​

[E.] Cancer (Uterine)​

[F.} Cancer (Ovarian)​

[G.] Chromosomal​

[H.] Placental​

[I.] Diseases (like AIDS, HIV, Diabetes)​

[J] State of the Mother (Unconscious, Brain Dead, etc)​

​

etc.​

​

There are cases, in which a girl/female child (post-menses) becomes pregnant through rape or incest, and the life of the little girl/female is endangered by the pregnancy. What to do in such cases? This is a good question. Should the State (which has no children, by definition) be involved in making a decision? Should the physician attending make the decision without the consent of the girl/female and/or her parents/guardians? Should the parents make the decision, since the girl/female is not of legal age to act without the consent of parents/guardians? What are the options available? Termination at earliest stage possible (pill, which will come with complications, bleeding, etc)? Wait until large enough for C-Section, as the girl/female cannot deliver (under normal circumstances) vaginally, and more than likely the removed 'child' die being non-viable in such condition, even if lasts for several days in NICU (Natal Intensive Care Unit) for hundreds of thousands of dollars (which bill is normally footed to the parents/guardians, rather than to the rapist or incestuous persons)? No matter the case, serious mental, psychological, physiological, biological, economical stresses will be placed upon all involved."​

A VERY risky position indeed. Why kill them?

 

[Stan B]

I have no intention on arguing back and forth about this. Im grateful I can say what I came to say and move on.

This is not a topic I can keep a cool head about. Its not cute, nor is it funny to me.

There is nothing to argue about. The BIBLE says that one becomes a living being at the moment God breathes into its nostrils the Breath of Life.

The only issue here is whether or not you believe or reject Scripture.

The Bible says one thing, and Satan's messengers say the opposite. You seem to be supporting Satan's alternative.

 

[Jack]

There is nothing to argue about. The BIBLE says that one becomes a living being at the moment God breathes into its nostrils the Breath of Life.

The only issue here is whether or not you believe or reject Scripture.

The Bible says one thing, and Satan's messengers say the opposite. You seem to be supporting Satan's alternative.

Why kill them Stan? Answer: $$$

 

[Stan B]

So you compare babies to "poop" and "road-kill" and call yourself a Christian? Does anyone here agree with Stan?

Nope! I wasn't talking about babies. Notwithstanding, Babies, fetuses, roadkill, poop, or whatever, they are all made of mud. Have you never bothered to read the Scripture that far??

 

[Stan B]

Why kill them Stan? Answer: $$$

For sure it's a challenge . . . to kill something that is dead!!

 

[Adam]

No! For thousands of years Halakhic law, "The fetus is considered part of its mother’s body rather than an independent identity until birth."
As for your suggestion that a baby cannot live without food, that also applies to those who are 80 years old.

But the bottom line, is what Scripture has to say, that a fetus does not become a living being until God breathes into its nostrils the BREATH OF LIFE. Gen 2

So basically, your idea is due to jewish oral law which Jesus specifically denounced and called the traditions of men, then went on to call the people who promoted it unclean on the inside?

Did you know that babies breathe inside the womb, inhaling amniotic fluid, which is essential to development of theit lungs?

Does it say in Genesis that the breath of life is oxygen? Because if not, you're promoting the murder of infants.

 

[Adam]

Notwithstanding, Babies, fetuses, roadkill, poop, or whatever, they are all made of mud.

I have a chemist friend who can test out this theory for you, if that is what you really believe.

 

[Stan B]

I have no intention on arguing back and forth about this. Im grateful I can say what I came to say and move on.

This is not a topic I can keep a cool head about. Its not cute, nor is it funny to me.

Wynona, Excellent response, demonstrating the source of your faith, but for Believers, subscribe to Scripture which states: "Always be prepared to give a defense to everyone who asks you the reason for the hope that is in you."

Do you find Scripture an annoying nuisance for you?

 

[Stan B]

So basically, your idea is due to jewish oral law which Jesus specifically denounced and called the traditions of men, then went on to call the people who promoted it unclean on the inside?

Did you know that babies breathe inside the womb, inhaling amniotic fluid, which is essential to development of theit lungs?

Does it say in Genesis that the breath of life is oxygen? Because if not, you're promoting the murder of infants.

Thousands of years of studying Hebrew Scripture, rabbis understood the Hebrew meaning of when a newborn became a viable living being, which is 100% in agreement with the Bible I read.
Do I know babies breathe inside the womb? First of all there are no babies inside a womb; and the fetus cannot breathe on its own. As an appendage of the mother, it is dependant upon the mother to supply oxygen. Babies lungs do not begin to function until after the fetus has exited the womb or they would drown before they were born.

Does it say in Genesis that the Breath of Life is oxygen? Or in the myriad of other places in Scripture which declares that the Breath of Life is the essence of Life? Does your silly mantra demand that the Bible supply a chemical analysis of the Breath??

You are nuts!

 

[Adventageous]

I have no intention on arguing back and forth about this. Im grateful I can say what I came to say and move on.

This is not a topic I can keep a cool head about. Its not cute, nor is it funny to me.

I do not think the subject is "cute" or "funny" either. I just think the topic needs to be discussed with a level head, proper definitions, rather than emotions. Emotions have their place, but so long as they do not over-ride everything else.

I appreciate that you did not come to argue. I hope you came to speak clearly on the subject, that frankly, should be discussed openly, rather than secretly.

I also appreciate that you know your limits, and that you would rather not say anything beyond a "cool head". Always best to be in the proper mind about these things, such as Abortion, Euthanasia, Stem Cells, Human Remains, Sex/Child/Slave Trafficking, Slavery, Racism, Death, Abuse, Rape, Incest, 'Retirement Homes', Vaccines, Hate Speech, etc. They are hard subjects, and not for everyone to enter into conversation with.

 

[Adam]

I have no intention on arguing back and forth about this. Im grateful I can say what I came to say and move on.

This is not a topic I can keep a cool head about. Its not cute, nor is it funny to me.

It is a defense mechanism for some people. A way of denying guilt. This is also why some people were so quick to scream and cry when abortions were made illegal. Because the very idea that fetuses are people, is unbearable to them. It implies they have done something heinous which they can't cope with. So they will lash out or ridicule or protest or do anything they can to convince themselves that for some reason or another, gestating babies aren't alive. Its like how if you tell an alcoholic he has a problem, then suddenly in his eyes, you now become the problem. People never want to see themselves as the bad guy.

 

[Stan B]

I have a chemist friend who can test out this theory for you, if that is what you really believe.

No need for your chemist. This was all tested out decades ago and it was found that all 63 elements of the human body are found in the ground. We are just dirt; not only us but everything we eat. From dirt we come, and to dirt we return.

 

[Adventageous]

A VERY risky position indeed. Why kill them?

What position is "VERY risky" that you refer to in my response?

Why "kill" who? Can you be more specific?