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Angelina

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I don't know why you guys are debating about works attributed to the law and faith accompanied by deeds. The O/T works of the law and the N/T faith accompanied by action clearly differ.
 

StanJ

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The Barrd said:
And when that happens, the Holy Spirit becomes a part of that new believer.
He will, as Christ promised, bring to our minds everything that Jesus taught us. He will write God's law upon our hearts.
And we will obey Him.
ONLY if we wait on him and receive him through his baptism and in-filling as Jesus commanded and as is demonstrated in Acts.
 

StanJ

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Angelina said:
I don't know why you guys are debating about works attributed to the law and faith accompanied by deeds. The O/T works of the law and the N/T faith accompanied by action clearly differ.
Indeed, hence the debate.
 

StanJ

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H. Richard said:
foolishness! How can a person trust in Jesus' work on the cross without already knowing in his/her heart that Jesus is the Son of God?
It is the natural man that can not see and know that Jesus' work on the cross pays for all the sins of the world.
Don't you all understand simple English?
That would be soteriology 101 and explained many times in the New Testament. You only have to look as far as Rom 10:9-11 to see it.
 

StanJ

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The Barrd said:
Which says that, according to you, only Pentecostals can possibly be Christians.
I'm sorry, but I disagree.
Well then it's good you disagree because that's not what I said or even implied. Please read Acts 19:1-7 and see what is being taught there. Salvation is the initial process and the baptism of the Holy Spirit Holy Spirit is the next process. I hate to break it to you, but it's not just Pentecostals that have been baptized in the Holy Spirit.
 

Barrd

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StanJ said:
Well then it's good you disagree because that's not what I said or even implied. Please read Acts 19:1-7 and see what is being taught there. Salvation is the initial process and the baptism of the Holy Spirit Holy Spirit is the next process. I hate to break it to you, but it's not just Pentecostals that have been baptized in the Holy Spirit.
Stan, I have never believed that only Pentecostals are baptized in the Holy Spirit. In fact, I think Pentecostals are a little confused about what being baptize in the Holy Spirit actually means.
It is my contention that every single person who comes to Christ receives His Spirit...we are all baptized in the Holy Spirit. No exceptions.
 

StanJ

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The Barrd said:
Stan, I have never believed that only Pentecostals are baptized in the Holy Spirit. In fact, I think Pentecostals are a little confused about what being baptize in the Holy Spirit actually means.
It is my contention that every single person who comes to Christ receives His Spirit...we are all baptized in the Holy Spirit. No exceptions.
And yet the scriptures show otherwise. What I can't figure out is why you confuse the Holy Spirit with the spirit of Christ, and why you can't see what is plainly written in the scripture about being baptized in the Holy Spirit? Have you actually read Acts 19:1-7? Did Jesus not differentiate between himself and the Holy Spirit?
 

Barrd

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The Ephesians in Acts 19 had been baptized by John the Baptist, for the remission of sin. John was preaching about the One Who would come after him, Who would baptize with the Holy Spirit and with fire.

When they were told about this, the Ephesians were baptized in the Name of Jesus Christ And that is when they received the Holy Spirit.
 

StanJ

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The Barrd said:
The Ephesians in Acts 19 had been baptized by John the Baptist, for the remission of sin. John was preaching about the One Who would come after him, Who would baptize with the Holy Spirit and with fire.
When they were told about this, the Ephesians were baptized in the Name of Jesus Christ And that is when they received the Holy Spirit.
It doesn't matter who they were baptized by and as a matter fact Jesus never baptized anybody, but v1 says they were disciples of Jesus and v2 says they believed. Paul only questioned if they had received the baptism of the Holy Spirit and not whether or not they were really saved.
The point is that when they said they didn't know that there was a holy spirit to be saved he laid hands on them and they receive the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues AND prophesied, just as the 11 did in Acts 2:4, unless you don't think they were saved either? v5 shows they were baptized in water and v6 shows that they were baptized in the Holy Spirit spoke in tongues when Paul laid his hands on them. You will note also if you care to that in Acts 10 Peter was commanded to speak to Cornelius and his household, who were already believers, so he did, and while doing so they received the baptism of the Holy Spirit and afterwards received water baptism. In both cases the baptism of the Holy Spirit follows salvation and is not part of the initial confession of salvation. You will also note here than in v46, Luke notes that they were baptized in the Holy Spirit which was evident because they spoke in tongues. Clearly the baptism of the Holy Spirit, with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues, follows salvation.