Abraham, by faith or works

[H. Richard]

I think you made a mistake when you said " before he had done anything to prove his 'faith' in God". Heb. 11:8-19 shows the faith of Abraham in leaving Ur, in sojourning in the land, and in looking for a city of God. Then last on the list is his offering up of Isaac.

And it seems James is speaking to this evidence of faith through works when he says in 2:22, "Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

Without a doubt Abraham was declared righteous based on his faith only in believing Gods promise of having a son. But the faith he had to do that was already in him.

Stranger

***
I made no mistake. Why do posters always say something about the other poster. I won't say you made a mistake. I will believe what the scriptures say about it.

Rom 4:2-3
2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.
3 For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness."
NKJV

There is nothing in the above that says Abraham did any works to be called righteous by God. Many do not wish to believe it but I believe it.

Gal 3:5-7
5 Therefore He who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you, does He do it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? —
6 just as Abraham "believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness."
7 Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham.
NKJV

What was it that made Abraham righteous before God? According to the scripture above it was "believing God", nothing else.

 

[Stranger]

***
I made no mistake. Why do posters always say something about the other poster. I won't say you made a mistake. I will believe what the scriptures say about it.

Rom 4:2-3
2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.
3 For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness."
NKJV

There is nothing in the above that says Abraham did any works to be called righteous by God. Many do not wish to believe it but I believe it.

Gal 3:5-7
5 Therefore He who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you, does He do it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? —
6 just as Abraham "believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness."
7 Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham.
NKJV

What was it that made Abraham righteous before God? According to the scripture above it was "believing God", nothing else.

Do you believe what Hebrews 11:8-19 says about Abraham's faith? That proves that Abraham did prove his faith to God before he offered Isaac.

I agree that righteousness was imputed to Abraham solely on faith, and no works. But his faith had already been working and doing before he came to that point. His faith which would justify him was also producing works.

Stranger

 

[H. Richard]

Do you believe what Hebrews 11:8-19 says about Abraham's faith? That proves that Abraham did prove his faith to God before he offered Isaac.

I agree that righteousness was imputed to Abraham solely on faith, and no works. But his faith had already been working and doing before he came to that point. His faith which would justify him was also producing works.

Stranger

Some will also say that by faith the child of God receives the Holy Spirit and receiving is a work.

But I don't see receiving as a work of the flesh. God knows those that have placed their faith in Him just as He knew Abraham's faith.

In more simpler words God saw, beforehand, that Abraham believed Him just as He sees those that believe Him today.

 

[Stranger]

Some will also say that by faith the child of God receives the Holy Spirit and receiving is a work.

But I don't see receiving as a work of the flesh. God knows those that have placed their faith in Him just as He knew Abraham's faith.

In more simpler words God saw, beforehand, that Abraham believed Him just as He sees those that believe Him today.

Some will say many things. So what?

Again, I ask you, Do you believe what Hebrews 11:8-19 says about Abraham's faith?

Stranger

 

[H. Richard]

Some will say many things. So what?

Again, I ask you, Do you believe what Hebrews 11:8-19 says about Abraham's faith?

Stranger

***
Here we go again!!!!!!

I believe every word of the scriptures in context. Do you??

Here we go again talking about the posters.

Rom 3:27-28 Boasting Excluded
27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith.
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.
NKJV

Faith alone.

 

[Stranger]

***
Here we go again!!!!!!

I believe every word of the scriptures in context. Do you??

Here we go again talking about the posters.

Rom 3:27-28 Boasting Excluded
27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith.
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.
NKJV

Faith alone.

Again, do you believe what Hebrews 11:8-19 says about Abraham's faith? Simple question. Isn't it?

Stranger

 

[H. Richard]

Again, do you believe what Hebrews 11:8-19 says about Abraham's faith? Simple question. Isn't it?

Stranger

What are you fishing for?? I already said that I believe every word of the scriptures in context.

You do know that the book of Hebrews is scripture don't you?

 

[Stranger]

What are you fishing for?? I already said that I believe every word of the scriptures in context.

I just want you to answer the question. Which you have not. Do you believe what Hebrews 11:8-19 says about Abrahams faith?

What are you dodging?

Stranger

 

[kerwin]

...

What was it that made Abraham righteous before God? According to the scripture above it was "believing God", nothing else.

I do not remember the words "nothing else".

Did you ever think that Paul might be accenting faith because of those that taught the Gentiles the must circumcise themselves and follow other Israelite customs?

 

[Stranger]

I do not remember the words "nothing else".

Did you ever think that Paul might be accenting faith because of those that taught the Gentiles the must circumcise themselves and follow other Israelite customs?

The words 'nothing else' dont need to be there. What was there is that Abraham was counted righteous for his faith only.

Stranger

 

[FHII]

I do not remember the words "nothing else".

Did you ever think that Paul might be accenting faith because of those that taught the Gentiles the must circumcise themselves and follow other Israelite customs?

I think you don't understand punctuation. Do you understand how it worls?

 

[FHII]

I just want you to answer the question. Which you have not. Do you believe what Hebrews 11:8-19 says about Abrahams faith?

What are you dodging?

Stranger

He isn't dodging. He answered your question. It just wasn't the answer you were fishing for.

He said he believes all scripture in proper context. What he was saying is that you were asking a question about scripture that never was in proper context to begin with. In other words, it was a stupid and invalid question.

Frankly, i agree with him. Furthermore, I don't think you are looking for an answer. You are looking for an admission. Someone who asks a question and will only accept one answer to that question isn't really seeking an answer.

They are being a lawyer.

 

[kerwin]

All,

Sounds like spin.

 

[kerwin]

I think you don't understand punctuation. Do you understand how it worls?

I will answer the literal question and make some comments but I have no idea what you are addressing. I did notice you mistype works.

I understand punctuation about as good as the next guy and even look it up when I have doubts or their is a controversy involved.

Most do not seem to care if they misuse punctuation in their interpretation or anywhere else beside something they may be graded on in one way or another.

 

[FHII]

I will answer the literal question and make some comments but I have no idea what you are addressing. I did notice you mistype works.

I understand punctuation about as good as the next guy and even look it up when I have doubts or their is a controversy involved.

Most do not seem to care if they misuse punctuation in their interpretation or anywhere else beside something they may be graded on in one way or another.

Typos and errors are one thing. Not understanding how punctuation works is an other thing.

Is English your first language?

 

[FHII]

All,

Sounds like spin.

No. Sounds like Kirwin grasping for straws.



Again.



And again......

 

[kerwin]

The words 'nothing else' dont need to be there. What was there is that Abraham was counted righteous for his faith only.

Stranger

James 2:14 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

Paul did not mean that that "a man say he hath faith, and have not works" that "faith" would save him in disagreement with James.

I do not know about you but the only reason I would cover the whole argument when I was making making one point is I thought the my hearer would misinterpret my words. To do so actually leads to long explanations that are often unneeded.

Paul was addressing these words and frankly there was nothing Abraham could do at that time and so is what he did later revealed his faith was like a roller coaster for it was sore tested. James speaks of one test in which Abraham offered his one and only son as a sacrifice because God commanded and as Hebrews 11:19 teaches us "God was able to raise him up, even from the dead". God forgave him the lows because he knows the hearts of humanity.

 

[kerwin]

No. Sounds like Kirwin grasping for straws.



Again.



And again......

You do realize you are dodging by not being concrete in what you are saying.

Please write your point out instead instead of making some obscure comment about punctuation. Thank you!

 

[FHII]

You do realize you are dodging by not being concrete in what you are saying.

Please write your point out instead instead of making some obscure comment about punctuation. Thank you!

Don't quote me boy cause I ain't said...."


Yoy won't understand that cause you are not from my world.

Kerkin.... I ain't got anything for you

 

[Stranger]

He isn't dodging. He answered your question. It just wasn't the answer you were fishing for.

He said he believes all scripture in proper context. What he was saying is that you were asking a question about scripture that never was in proper context to begin with. In other words, it was a stupid and invalid question.

Frankly, i agree with him. Furthermore, I don't think you are looking for an answer. You are looking for an admission. Someone who asks a question and will only accept one answer to that question isn't really seeking an answer.

They are being a lawyer.

How is it not in context, to make it stupid and invalid?

Stranger