The phrase "by faith" indicates to me that there was some act done by faith, no? So yes, the relationship began with belief. But belief is not faith .. it is simple agreement or assent. So one might say instead of "by faith," showing faith Abraham obeyed. In fact, it would be unbelief not to obey God, right?
The "faith alone" doctrine has many people confused about what really is required for salvation. You probably know like I do that every denomination has their own 'spin' on what constitutes faith, right? The Bible tells us that what constitutes faith is obedience to God and God, for us, commands repentance (Acts 2:38, 3:19, 17:30, 20:21, 26:20).
Would you say that it shows belief or faith for us to disobey the gospel?
skypair
skypair,
To be honest with you, 'indicates to me' is not a way to obtain the meaning of any text, including the Bible. We need to obtain the meaning out of the text by exegesis and not by an 'indication to me'. The latter is most often eisegesis - inserting meaning into the text.
You say, 'But belief is not faith .. it is simple agreement or assent'. Based on the NT Greek language, this is false. I believe =
pisteuw; faith =
pistis. Both are based on the same root of the Greek word,
pist. So, I believe and I have faith mean the same thing if our faith is fair dinkum (an Aussie expression for genuine). Of course, there can be fake faith (e.g. 'You say you have faith, for you believe that there is one God. Good for you! Even the demons believe this, and they tremble in terror' - James 2:19 NLT).
You state:
You probably know like I do that every denomination has their own 'spin' on what constitutes faith, right? The Bible tells us that what constitutes faith is obedience to God and God, for us, commands repentance (Acts 2:38, 3:19, 17:30, 20:21, 26:20).
That is too much of a generalisation, a hyperbole. In 55 years as a Christian, I have not heard the breadth of description you have given here.
You ask, 'Would you say that it shows belief or faith for us to disobey the gospel?' Let's check what James teaches:
14 What good is it, dear brothers and sisters, if you say you have faith but don’t show it by your actions? Can that kind of faith save anyone? 15 Suppose you see a brother or sister who has no food or clothing, 16 and you say, “Good-bye and have a good day; stay warm and eat well”—but then you don’t give that person any food or clothing. What good does that do?
17 So you see, faith by itself isn’t enough. Unless it produces good deeds, it is dead and useless.
18 Now someone may argue, “Some people have faith; others have good deeds.” But I say, “How can you show me your faith if you don’t have good deeds? I will show you my faith by my good deeds.”
19 You say you have faith, for you believe that there is one God. Good for you! Even the demons believe this, and they tremble in terror. 20 How foolish! Can’t you see that faith without good deeds is useless? (James 2:14-20 NLT).
James is clear that genuine faith produces good deeds. These good deeds are produced by faith. James answers the question you ask: “How can you show me your faith if you don’t have good deeds? I will show you my faith by my good deeds” (James 2:18 NLT).
Notice how James states it: 'I will show you my faith by my good deeds'. He does not teach this: 'My good deeds will lead to my experiencing faith through repentance'. It all begins with our faith in Christ alone for salvation (through confession and repentance) and the good deeds must follow to demonstrate that the faith is genuine and not useless.
At 12.45am, bed is calling on this Saturday morning.
Oz