According to Christianity

[Willie T]

I think that is why it is called F.A.I.T.H.

Faith is believing what and Who we cannot see. right ?
Faith is what it is all about.

The denomination I identify with spells, FAITH.... R-I-S-K.
Look at it in Google:
FAITH... RISK - Google Search

 

[Helen]

The denomination I identify with spells, FAITH.... R-I-S-K.

Haha! But is there really any risk?

"God is no man debtor."

 

[bbyrd009]

I will take the liberty in concluding that, no definition of 'faith' would apply to concluding the actual answer.

except for maybe the Scriptural one, which is strangely worded and does not fit with your current definition of faith very well, right.

so, ignoring for now that we started from imo a bad premise, i would argue that a better definition of faith, that agrees with "= the evidence of things not seen, and the substance of things hoped for" can be had, but unfortunately it flies completely in the face of your likely current definition of "faith," at least if you currently hold any "beliefs" that you cannot prove, but nonetheless keep them "on faith."

for instance the Scientific Method works fabulously in here, but are you willing to consider this?

 

[bbyrd009]

the SM takes into account "fruit," rather ruthlessly in fact
just like Scripture imo
and there are comparisons that could be made
with a diff def of faith anyway

 

[Willie T]

Haha! But is there really any risk?

"God is no man debtor."

Absolutely! If not, you would not be operating in "faith", but in "proof." And "proof" is what most Atheists want before they will budge an inch.

 

[bbyrd009]

So how might one go about formulating an intellectually honest conclusion, verses what makes one feel good?

Your thoughts?

um, imo by recognizing that "intellectually honest conclusions" will necessitate the reeding of another Law, that will be inadequate the moment it is written down. "intellectually honest conclusions" are oxymorons iow

 

[bbyrd009]

Absolutely! If not, you would not be operating in "faith", but in "proof." And "proof" is what most Atheists want before they will budge an inch.

nice. I'm not sure i would agree with where most of those search hits would want to take this "risk" thing, but regardless there is truth in the concept imo

the connection of Atheists to Fundies is well established, imo they are as close a cousins as religion and politics

 

[Helen]

Absolutely! If not, you would not be operating in "faith", but in "proof." And "proof" is what most Atheists want.

But it says that faith is the substance of ...that speaks of something solid to me. " the evidence of "
Maybe you mean that faith is active and not passive...but I can't see how faith is a risk. ( yet)

I will muse on it...and think it over..if I remember where I wrote this post...I will get back to you on it .. lol

later....H

 

[Willie T]

From a blog:
Advent is the season in which we celebrate the reality that God made himself vulnerable, that He put Himself at risk by becoming a newborn in Bethlehem. Recently, I read an article by Mark Labberton that helped me recognize that risk-taking is part and parcel of God’s nature. Through creating autonomous human beings as well as through the incarnation, God took incredible risks to open up the possibility of relationship. And so we mimic God as well as trust in God by taking risks for His sake.

John Wimber once said that faith is spelled R-I-S-K. All throughout the biblical narrative we see women and men trusting God by leaving their comfort zones and accepting God’s risky call. Abraham left his family and country to follow God’s call. Peter had to get out of the boat to walk on water. Mary left the hope of a normal family life by bearing the Lord Jesus. There’s a good chance that the times of greatest spiritual growth in your life also came when you took a risk.

One of the reasons short-term mission trips are such effective catalysts for discipleship is because they force us out of our places of competence and therefore we must lean on God in new ways. When we’re meeting people different than ourselves, when we’re in a strange place or can’t speak the language, when we’re needy enough to pray for daily bread, these things propel us to look upwards rather than inwards. And so our faith grows in proportion to these risks.

Conversely, the avoidance of taking risks, the straightjacket of always doing things as we’ve done them before, is the surest sign that faith has begun to calcify. Labberton writes,
“…often the Church can be one of the least risk-taking communities. We cultivate a subculture that is often about avoiding risk…with the justification that Jesus has taken the risk [and] spared us the danger.”
For instance, we often seek and pray for protection from hardship, safe travels, and quick healing from injuries. And yet we don’t see Jesus, Peter and Paul living a bubble-wrapped existence.

But on the positive side, through risk-taking God invites us into the adventure of faith. I hope that stepping into ECO, while risky on one level, is something that God is using to enlarge and deepen your faith journey.
Labberton writes,
“We will discover things about God and ourselves and our world that we will not know if we decide to live for the sake of safety.”
Taking everyday risks

Earlier this week, I visited Pete Santucci, who is planting a new ECO church in Bend, Oregon, called Crux. Pete and I stopped by the local high school where his son attends. As a small relational challenge, on the spot I encouraged Pete to set up a meeting with the principal to learn about the needs of the community. He did so and was energized by that step.

Some questions to consider are:

• Do I take risks in my own life as a missional leader?
• As a preacher, do I take risks in my sermons?
• As a congregation, are we nurturing risk-taking disciples?

I also recently took a relational risk with a family member by sharing how some of his theological views directly impact our relationship. While the outcome was mixed, the exhilarating aspect was engaging in authentic relationship in which I cannot control the outcome but must leave it in God’s hands. I am confident that the gospel grants us such a secure relationship with Jesus Christ that we are empowered to venture into places of insecurity - either within ourselves or into our world.

 

[bbyrd009]

The Christian states the Holy Bible is correct, because it says so. By what mechanisms could actually be used to validate which one is certainly incorrect?

if you set out to validate which one is certainly correct--rather than incorrect--imo you could approach an answer by testing any competing premises with Scripture though. Maybe not a Final Answer, but more truth could be realized

God has no family
Why do you call Me good?

but really imo what should be examined there is why the desire to "prove" a Muslim incorrect at all? See, the fact that any two Prots might easily be just as divided seems to be intentionally being ignored here, in favor of what i can only characterize as an agenda wadr

 

[Helen]

From a blog:
Advent is the season in which we celebrate the reality that God made himself vulnerable, that He put Himself at risk by becoming a newborn in Bethlehem. Recently, I read an article by Mark Labberton that helped me recognize that risk-taking is part and parcel of God’s nature. Through creating autonomous human beings as well as through the incarnation, God took incredible risks to open up the possibility of relationship. And so we mimic God as well as trust in God by taking risks for His sake.

John Wimber once said that faith is spelled R-I-S-K. All throughout the biblical narrative we see women and men trusting God by leaving their comfort zones and accepting God’s risky call. Abraham left his family and country to follow God’s call. Peter had to get out of the boat to walk on water. Mary left the hope of a normal family life by bearing the Lord Jesus. There’s a good chance that the times of greatest spiritual growth in your life also came when you took a risk.

One of the reasons short-term mission trips are such effective catalysts for discipleship is because they force us out of our places of competence and therefore we must lean on God in new ways. When we’re meeting people different than ourselves, when we’re in a strange place or can’t speak the language, when we’re needy enough to pray for daily bread, these things propel us to look upwards rather than inwards. And so our faith grows in proportion to these risks.

Conversely, the avoidance of taking risks, the straightjacket of always doing things as we’ve done them before, is the surest sign that faith has begun to calcify. Labberton writes,
“…often the Church can be one of the least risk-taking communities. We cultivate a subculture that is often about avoiding risk…with the justification that Jesus has taken the risk [and] spared us the danger.”
For instance, we often seek and pray for protection from hardship, safe travels, and quick healing from injuries. And yet we don’t see Jesus, Peter and Paul living a bubble-wrapped existence.

But on the positive side, through risk-taking God invites us into the adventure of faith. I hope that stepping into ECO, while risky on one level, is something that God is using to enlarge and deepen your faith journey.
Labberton writes,
“We will discover things about God and ourselves and our world that we will not know if we decide to live for the sake of safety.”
Taking everyday risks

Earlier this week, I visited Pete Santucci, who is planting a new ECO church in Bend, Oregon, called Crux. Pete and I stopped by the local high school where his son attends. As a small relational challenge, on the spot I encouraged Pete to set up a meeting with the principal to learn about the needs of the community. He did so and was energized by that step.

Some questions to consider are:

• Do I take risks in my own life as a missional leader?
• As a preacher, do I take risks in my sermons?
• As a congregation, are we nurturing risk-taking disciples?

I also recently took a relational risk with a family member by sharing how some of his theological views directly impact our relationship. While the outcome was mixed, the exhilarating aspect was engaging in authentic relationship in which I cannot control the outcome but must leave it in God’s hands. I am confident that the gospel grants us such a secure relationship with Jesus Christ that we are empowered to venture into places of insecurity - either within ourselves or into our world.

I was just going to sign off for today when I saw this..

Okay...so when I by faith, believe and take Jesus and become a Christian...where is the RISK ?

How can believe the truth spoken by God, be a risk?

I need a bit more from you or @bbyrd009 here....?
I CAN'T see that taking God at His word is a risk...far from...it's the only safe place...

Thanks...will check back later

 

[bbyrd009]

But it says that faith is the substance of ...that speaks of something solid to me. " the evidence of "
Maybe you mean that faith is active and not passive...but I can't see how faith is a risk. ( yet)

regardless of whether you know the first thing about aerodynamics or jet propulsion, statistics (knowledge of the fruit) make it comfy enough for you to get on a plane. Now, might you still die on the trip? Certainly; you have a...one in eleven million chance of dying. The risk is apparent iow. NOw of course in a Cessna the risks change; if you are in a Cessna in Guatemala the risks prolly change again, etc

 

[bbyrd009]

I CAN'T see that taking God at His word is a risk...far from...it's the only safe place...

well, don't forget that God will send you delusions, too right
God made tares (false wheat), and you might easily have gotten some, etc
Paul warns us of Wolves in the...establishment, right, it's only later if at all that we get a clear def of what "establishment" really means, stuff like that.

 

[cvanwey]

I think that is why it is called F.A.I.T.H.

Faith is believing what and Who we cannot see. right ?
Faith is what it is all about.

Actually, not right...

If faith is demonstrated not reliable, but is instead a 'gut feeling', with no backing from demonstrable evidence, then, no, faith does not appear to be a reliable pathway for truth.

Hence, my question as to where faith is needed to determine if something is right/wrong.... If the Muslim can use it, every bit as much as a Christian, which they absolutely do, and by using this mechanism alone (faith), it is purely one emotional feeling verses another emotional feeling, with no meter stick for an absolute standard.

Logic, reason, and evidence, then become the prevailing measures to determine the probability for truth and answers. In conclusion, faith is NOT what it IS all about :-(

 

[cvanwey]

well, don't forget that God will send you delusions, too right
God made tares (false wheat), and you might easily have gotten some, etc
Paul warns us of Wolves in the...establishment, right, it's only later if at all that we get a clear def of what "establishment" really means, stuff like that.

Again, which God are we talking about..? The God of the New Testament, or the God of the Qur'an? They both demonstrate alternate moral codes or standards. They cannot both be right. Using faith alone, how might one know which moral standard to follow, if both sides are only guided faith?

 

[bbyrd009]

Again, which God are we talking about..? The God of the New Testament, or the God of the Qur'an?

let's come back to this one, after all they are prolly both the Mono

 

[bbyrd009]

They both demonstrate alternate moral codes or standards. They cannot both be right.

so you say, but we might test this premise with an example, be my guest

if you don't prefer the one i gave

 

[bbyrd009]

Using faith alone, how might one know which moral standard to follow, if both sides are only guided faith?

get a better def of "faith" that is not quite as synonymous with "beliefs" imo; one that ignores any determination of things that happened in some ancient yesterday and can never practically be proven, or any determination of what might happen tomorrow, that never comes.

But since that won't serve in the moment, one might also understand that beliefs are not the standard God uses anyway, we are even told to not debate beliefs, @ "holidays" etc, and we are also cautioned to not move boundary stones, essentially the same lesson.

A Muslim and a Christian both practicing their faith will have no probs at all, by definition right

 

[Helen]

If faith is demonstrated not reliable, but is instead a 'gut feeling', with no backing from demonstrable evidence, then, no, faith does not appear to be a reliable pathway for truth.

No..Faith is not a "gut feeling"..Faith comes by hearing...
Romans 10:17 " So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."

 

[Helen]

regardless of whether you know the first thing about aerodynamics or jet propulsion, statistics (knowledge of the fruit) make it comfy enough for you to get on a plane. Now, might you still die on the trip? Certainly; you have a...one in eleven million chance of dying. The risk is apparent iow. NOw of course in a Cessna the risks change; if you are in a Cessna in Guatemala the risks prolly change again, etc

Agree, Heb 11 ends with " These all died in faith..not having received the promise, but seeing it a far off..."

I still maintain...even with my dying breath...that there is no risk in God...God pays all debts..He is no mans debtor...
You are not a futurist, so you wont agree that none of us have seen "the end of our faith..." yet!!

One day ( which you hate to agree with) we will see what our faith produced .."whether it be gold , silver and precious stones, or wood hay and stubble. "

In Heb 11 ...they didn't get it now...but they saw it..and knew their faith was NOT "a risk".

Blessings.....H