Acts 2:38 has been abandoned by Christianity

[JunChosen]

Peter and ALL the apostles with him, said this...

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

What baptism do you think is in view seeing there are two types of baptisms, one is physical in nature and the other spiritual.

The answer lies in Peter himself as he said in 1 Peter 3:21 under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit:
"The "like figure" whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (NOT of the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ."

So we see that water only washes away the filth of the skin and that there is no value in water baptism as some make it to be!

To God Be The Glory

 

[amigo de christo]

Its seven pm . TIME TO PRAISE THE GLORIOUS LORD . Wait i mean its seven o three . WELL its STILL TIME TO raise those hands
and Praise the LORD . YES IT IS .

 

[user]

What baptism do you think is in view seeing there are two types of baptisms, one is physical in nature and the other spiritual.

The answer lies in Peter himself as he said in 1 Peter 3:21 under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit:
"The "like figure" whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (NOT of the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ."

So we see that water only washes away the filth of the skin and that there is no value in water baptism as some make it to be!

To God Be The Glory

So you believe the verse should read like this..

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, "Repent, and be baptized SPIRIT BAPTIZED every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water SPIRIT BAPTIZED and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

 

[Iconoclast]

Never thinking to ask themselves, how does a seminary student ignore the import of Acts 2:38?

They know that the Church of Christ has a works gospel, and they correctly understand believers baptism.Water baptism does not save.

 

[Iconoclast]

So you believe the verse should read like this..

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, "Repent, and be baptized SPIRIT BAPTIZED every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water SPIRIT BAPTIZED and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Jn.3:5 is not speaking of water baptism.

 

[user]

Jn.3:5 is not speaking of water baptism.

Do you believe it is amniotic fluid?

 

[Iconoclast]

Do you believe it is amniotic fluid?

No....the water of separation from numbers19:

9And a man that is clean shall gather up the ashes of the heifer, and lay them up without the camp in a clean place, and it shall be kept for the congregation of the children of Israel
for a water of separation: it is a purification for sin.

10And he that gathereth the ashes of the heifer shall wash his clothes, and be unclean until the even: and it shall be unto the children of Israel, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among them, for a statute for ever.

11He that toucheth the dead body of any man shall be unclean seven days.

12He shall purify himself with it on the third day, and on the seventh day he shall be clean: but if he purify not himself the third day, then the seventh day he shall not be clean.

13Whosoever toucheth the dead body of any man that is dead, and purifieth not himself, defileth the tabernacle of the LORD; and that soul shall be cut off from Israel: because the water of separation was not sprinkled upon him, he shall be unclean; his uncleanness is yet upon him.

14This is the law, when a man dieth in a tent: all that come into the tent, and all that is in the tent, shall be unclean seven days.

15And every open vessel, which hath no covering bound upon it, is unclean.

16And whosoever toucheth one that is slain with a sword in the open fields, or a dead body, or a bone of a man, or a grave, shall be unclean seven days.

17And for an unclean person they shall take of the ashes of the burnt heifer of purification for sin, and running water shall be put thereto in a vessel:

18And a clean person shall take hyssop, and dip it in the water, and sprinkle it upon the tent, and upon all the vessels, and upon the persons that were there, and upon him that touched a bone, or one slain, or one dead, or a grave:

19And the clean person shall sprinkle upon the unclean on the third day, and on the seventh day: and on the seventh day he shall purify himself, and wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and shall be clean at even.

20But the man that shall be unclean, and shall not purify himself, that soul shall be cut off from among the congregation, because he hath defiled the sanctuary of the LORD: the water of separation hath not been sprinkled upon him; he is unclean.

21And it shall be a perpetual statute unto them, that he that sprinkleth the water of separation shall wash his clothes; and he that toucheth the water of separation shall be unclean until even.

22And whatsoever the unclean person toucheth shall be unclean; and the soul that toucheth it shall be unclean until even.

In jn 3, Jesus follows num19, with num21, lifting the serpent of bronze...

ezk36:25-27

Nicodemus was the teacher in Israel, He did not know Christian water baptism, Jesus said you are the teacher in Israel and you do not know these things???

 

[user]

No....the water of separation from numbers19:

9And a man that is clean shall gather up the ashes of the heifer, and lay them up without the camp in a clean place, and it shall be kept for the congregation of the children of Israel
for a water of separation: it is a purification for sin.

10And he that gathereth the ashes of the heifer shall wash his clothes, and be unclean until the even: and it shall be unto the children of Israel, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among them, for a statute for ever.

11He that toucheth the dead body of any man shall be unclean seven days.

12He shall purify himself with it on the third day, and on the seventh day he shall be clean: but if he purify not himself the third day, then the seventh day he shall not be clean.

13Whosoever toucheth the dead body of any man that is dead, and purifieth not himself, defileth the tabernacle of the LORD; and that soul shall be cut off from Israel: because the water of separation was not sprinkled upon him, he shall be unclean; his uncleanness is yet upon him.

14This is the law, when a man dieth in a tent: all that come into the tent, and all that is in the tent, shall be unclean seven days.

15And every open vessel, which hath no covering bound upon it, is unclean.

16And whosoever toucheth one that is slain with a sword in the open fields, or a dead body, or a bone of a man, or a grave, shall be unclean seven days.

17And for an unclean person they shall take of the ashes of the burnt heifer of purification for sin, and running water shall be put thereto in a vessel:

18And a clean person shall take hyssop, and dip it in the water, and sprinkle it upon the tent, and upon all the vessels, and upon the persons that were there, and upon him that touched a bone, or one slain, or one dead, or a grave:

19And the clean person shall sprinkle upon the unclean on the third day, and on the seventh day: and on the seventh day he shall purify himself, and wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and shall be clean at even.

20But the man that shall be unclean, and shall not purify himself, that soul shall be cut off from among the congregation, because he hath defiled the sanctuary of the LORD: the water of separation hath not been sprinkled upon him; he is unclean.

21And it shall be a perpetual statute unto them, that he that sprinkleth the water of separation shall wash his clothes; and he that toucheth the water of separation shall be unclean until even.

22And whatsoever the unclean person toucheth shall be unclean; and the soul that toucheth it shall be unclean until even.

In jn 3, Jesus follows num19, with num21, lifting the serpent of bronze...

ezk36:25-27

Nicodemus was the teacher in Israel, He did not know Christian water baptism, Jesus said you are the teacher in Israel and you do not know these things???

Jesus was not looking backwards, he was anticipating his death, burial, resurrection and referring to the coming New Testament plan of salvation, which Peter and ALL the apostles with him declared in obedience to the great commission...

Luke 24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

 

[Iconoclast]

Jesus was not looking backwards, he was anticipating his death, burial, resurrection and referring to the coming New Testament plan of salvation, which Peter and ALL the apostles with him declared in obedience to the great commission...

Luke 24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Sorry,He was quoting from numbers to a man who was a jew, not a NT gentile..
Nt water baptism was not on the scene yet.
He expected Nicodemus to know about it.

 

[user]

Sorry,He was quoting from numbers to a man who was a jew, not a NT gentile..
Nt water baptism was not on the scene yet.
He expected Nicodemus to know about it.

Let's walk through the scene as it unfolds...

Joh 3:1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
Joh 3:2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Pause for a moment. Why in the world would Jesus need to have said this as Nicodemus was a ruler of the strictest sect of the Jews. Clearly Jesus was about to enlighten him.


Joh 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Jesus refers to water AND spirit. The pouring out of the spirit will not take place until Acts chapter two in fulfillment of the prophecy of Joel, clearly Jesus is looking ahead (not backward).


Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Joh 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
Joh 3:9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
Joh 3:10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
Joh 3:11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.
Joh 3:12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
Joh 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Joh 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

Jesus looking ahead to the cross.

 

[Iconoclast]

Let's walk through the scene as it unfolds...

Joh 3:1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
Joh 3:2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Pause for a moment. Why in the world would Jesus need to have said this as Nicodemus was a ruler of the strictest sect of the Jews. Clearly Jesus was about to enlighten him.


Joh 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Jesus refers to water AND spirit. The pouring out of the spirit will not take place until Acts chapter two in fulfillment of the prophecy of Joel, clearly Jesus is looking ahead (not backward).


Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Joh 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
Joh 3:9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
Joh 3:10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
Joh 3:11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.
Joh 3:12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
Joh 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Joh 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

Jesus looking ahead to the cross.

look at verse 10....Joh 3:10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
You ignore this statement.
He expected He would know this.
The Spirit was front and Center in the ot, and the prophets..Ezk 36, Jer 31

 

[JunChosen]

So you believe the verse should read like this..

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, "Repent, and be baptized SPIRIT BAPTIZED every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water SPIRIT BAPTIZED and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Exactly. For both passages. Water batism means to "wash." The answer lies in Titus 3:5 that reads, "Not by the works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost."

To God Be The Glory

 

[user]

look at verse 10....Joh 3:10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
You ignore this statement.
He expected He would know this.
The Spirit was front and Center in the ot, and the prophets..Ezk 36, Jer 31

Jesus was describing the plan of salvation for the future New Testament church that was about to come into existence. Christ's purpose was to give Nicodemus information and to motivate him to believe in His person and mission (but not to impart the Spirit to him immediately)...

John 3:12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? [13] And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. [14] And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

 

[Iconoclast]

Jesus was describing the plan of salvation for the future New Testament church that was about to come into existence. Christ's purpose was to give Nicodemus information and to motivate him to believe in His person and mission (but not to impart the Spirit to him immediately)...

John 3:12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? [13] And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. [14] And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

you are ignoring verse 10.
Jesus said as the main teacher in Isrsel, he should have already known it

 

[user]

Exactly. For both passages. Water batism means to "wash." The answer lies in Titus 3:5 that reads, "Not by the works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost."

To God Be The Glory

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water(G5204) and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Thayer Definition:
1) water
1a) of water in rivers, in fountains, in pools
1b) of the water of the deluge
1c) of water in any of the earth’s repositories
1d) of water as the primary element, out of and through which the world that was before the deluge, arose and was compacted
1e) of the waves of the sea

Here is an instance using the very same word...

Acts 8:36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water(G5204): and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? [38] And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.

1John 5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. [8] And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

 

[Iconoclast]

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water(G5204) and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Thayer Definition:
1) water
1a) of water in rivers, in fountains, in pools
1b) of the water of the deluge
1c) of water in any of the earth’s repositories
1d) of water as the primary element, out of and through which the world that was before the deluge, arose and was compacted
1e) of the waves of the sea

Here is an instance using the very same word...

Acts 8:36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water(G5204): and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? [38] And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.

1John 5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. [8] And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

Nicodemus did not read the book of acts or 1jn.
he did read numbers and ezekiel

 

[user]

Nicodemus did not read the book of acts or 1jn.
he did read numbers and ezekiel

My reply in post #715 was to JunChosen not you. Please be diligent to keep up and pay attention.

Now then, I have explained Jesus referring to water and spirit, and the pouring out of the spirit does not take place until Acts chapter two in fulfillment of the prophecy of Joel, clearly indicating Jesus looking ahead (not backward). Whereby you passed everything I had said, and failing to actually address any of it, but chose to remain stuck at verse 10...

John 3:10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?


Do you suppose Nicodemus should have known before the priest could enter the Tabernacle he had to wash at the laver otherwise God would strike him dead. God commanded, "They shall wash with water, that they die not" (Exodus 30:20).

Do you suppose Nicodemus should have known a ceremonially unclean person had to wash with water before he could become clean. This was the water of separation, a purification for sin (Numbers 19:9). If the unclean person refused to wash in this manner, he continued to bear his iniquity (Leviticus 17:16).

Do you suppose Nicodemus should have known the Jews had to offer up a sacrifice for sins annually, which involved blood and water. And no one that I'm aware of would argue that the water used in this process wasn't an ESSENTIAL part of that process. AND anyone familiar with Numbers Chapter 19, will have to admit that the water was used to wash human bodies, during this process.

Jesus let Nicodemus know that in order for a man to enter this Kingdom, a new birth involving BOTH water AND Spirit are essential...

"Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."

Jesus in verse 14, looking ahead to the cross and to motivate him to believe in His person and mission...

John 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

 

[JunChosen]

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water(G5204) and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Concordances and dictionaries are a help but they are NOT inspired!

The word "water" in John 3:5 does not mean H2O as many believe it to be as in 1 John 5:6, except in Acts 8:6 which is H2O.

The ONLY way to understand the word "water" in John 3:5 as well as in 1 John 5:6 is given to us in John 7:38 that reads:

"He that believeth in me as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water."

In other words, out of every true believer emanates the true Gospel [rivers of living water]!

Also, so that every believer be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
16) Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evil doers they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ. 1 Peter 3:15-16.

I hope this helps.

My reply in post #715 was to JunChosen not you. Please be diligent to keep up and pay attention.

This is a forum where everybody and anybody can make comments to whom they desire to respond. I'm sure you've done that in the past.

To God Be The Glory

 

[GRACE ambassador]

Yes, water, is in law/prophecy, Israel, and the Twelve

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15 KJB!) From “Things That DIFFER!”:

NO! water IS NOT In GRACE/MYSTERY, The Body Of CHRIST, and ONE, Paul!

"Divider" Poll 13 Bible baptisms


Please Be Richly Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, and Edified!

God's Simple Will!

 

[user]

Is your point that one must be water baptized for the remission of sins and receiving the Holy Spirit?

Jesus told Nicodemus, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God (John 3:5).