Adam's death in the garden explained.

[ewq1938]

The infinitive absolute verb pairing explained.


Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.


When speaking to a human man and telling him that in the day he sins he will suffer a punishment could only be understood as a literal day wherein he would receive that punishment. The word day means warm, which obviously is a reference to the daylight part of day so this punishment did not occur at night. The word can mean longer than a day in a figurative sense but the context of the passage shows a literal use.

Adam sinned and not long after he died. It simply wasn't a physical death but the type of death any sinless person suffers when they sin for the first time. Sin is a moral/spiritual concept, and the death it brings to a person is spiritual.

Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.


It is claimed by some that this actually means "dying thou shalt die" and is conveying the meaning of "a continued action over a long period of time" meaning Adam began to physically age when he sinned and eventually would die but is this actually an accurate translation and interpretation? No. Allow me to explain:

Gen 2:17 But of the treeH4480 H6086 of the knowledgeH1847 of goodH2896 and evil,H7451 thou shalt notH3808 eatH398 ofH4480 it: forH3588 in the dayH3117 that thou eatestH398 thereofH4480 thou shalt surely die.H4191 H4191

Here we see the word "die" repeated twice, H4191 H4191.

One of the verbs will be written in a different verbal form than the other. That literally means one will have an extra hebrew letter/character despite being the same exact word. That spelling difference and which order the two verbs appear can alter the meaning of the verbs. One verb will be written in the infinitive absolute form. The other verb will be written in the conjugated/inflected form which has the extra letter/character. What the pair of verbs actually mean is based on which form appears first and which is second:

http://kukis.org/Languages/Hebrew4Dummies.pdf

The infinitive absolute has four uses: when found alone, it sometimes acts as an English gerund, so that we may add ING to the end of the verb;

This isn't relative because this is only when the verb is alone and not in a pair as it is in Gen 2:17.

When found directly before it's verbal cognate, it serves to intensify or strengthen the action or the meaning of the verb which follows

This is when the infinitive absolute form appears first or before the conjugated/inflected form.

When it follows it's cognate verb, it emphasizes the duration or the continuation of the verbal idea.

This is when the the conjugated/inflected verb form appears first or before infinitive absolute verb form.

So back to the verse and the pair of verbs:

Gen 2:17 But of the treeH4480 H6086 of the knowledgeH1847 of goodH2896 and evil,H7451 thou shalt notH3808 eatH398 ofH4480 it: forH3588 in the dayH3117 that thou eatestH398 thereofH4480 thou shalt surely die.H4191 H4191

Here we see the word "die" repeated twice, H4191 H4191 or using an english transliteration, "muth t'muth". "muth" is the infinitive absolute verb and "t'muth" is the conjugated/inflected verb.

So in Gen 2:17 is the first verb in the "infinitive absolute form" or is the first verb in the "conjugated/inflected form"?

In that verse the first verb is in the "infinitive absolute form" so it appears first: muth t'muth, so this meaning is the correct one:

When found directly before it's verbal cognate, it serves to intensify or strengthen the action or the meaning of the verb which follows

 

[ewq1938]

I will now prove that the infinitive absolute verb does appear first:

Gesenius' Hebrew Grammar/113. The Infinitive Absolute - Wikisource, the free online library

113n (a) The infinitive absolute used before the verb to strengthen the verbal idea, i.e. to emphasize in this way either the certainty (especially in the case of threats) or the forcibleness and completeness of an occurrence. In English, such an infinitive is mostly expressed by a corresponding adverb, but sometimes merely by putting greater stress on the verb; e.g. Gen 2:17 ???? ???????? thou shalt surely die,

Confirmation it does indeed come first proving which meaning it conveys.


"dying thou shalt die" interpreted to mean "a continued action over a long period of time" and that Adam began to physically age when he sinned and eventually would die is an incorrect interpretation in Gen 2:17. Those that promote this understanding do not properly understand the "infinitive absolute verb pairing" because they are ignorant of the order of the verb forms involved and which meaning is conveyed by their order.

A translation hard to misunderstand would be either "a death thou shalt die" or how it's rendered in the KJV "thou shalt surely die" which shows how the infinitive absolute verb form intensifies or strengthens the meaning of the verb "die". "dying thou shalt die" does not convey a "continued action over a long period of time" though it is often understood in that errant way. Using the verb "dying" in that verse suggests the wrong meaning as if Adam just began the process of dying over time which did not start happening as soon as he sinned. The first verb is supposed to intensify or strengthen the action or the meaning of the second verb yet "dying thou shalt die" fails to convey that properly which leads to many false understandings of this verse. It is a very poor way to translate the Hebrew. "thou shalt surely die" properly conveys the meaning of the verb pairing which "intensifies or strengthens the action or the meaning of the verb" that follows the infinitive absolute verb.

Gesenius' Hebrew Grammer Lexicon:

#113 - ܐܰܟ݂ܰܐܺܝܩܳܘܣ - New Testament Aramaic Lexical Dictionary - StudyLight.org

(a) The infinitive absolute used before the verb to strengthen the verbal idea, i.e. to emphasize in this way either the certainty (especially in the case of threats) or the forcibleness and completeness of an occurrence. In English, such an infinitive is mostly expressed by a corresponding adverb, but sometimes merely by putting greater stress on the verb; e.g. Genesis 2:17 "mut t'mut" thou shalt surely die

Note, again, that there is only one meaning when the infinitive absolute verb is first and the conjugated/inflected verb is second; "to strengthen the verbal idea". No other meaning can be attached yet you will find all kinds of article and forums posts which do exactly that due to ignorance of the true meaning of the infinitive absolute/inflected verb pairing. Some will insist it can have both meanings but that is quite untrue!


So, Adam did NOT start to age and slowly die over a period of time when he sinned. The "infinitive absolute form" used in Gen 2:17 proves that theory to be incorrect. The death he experienced was completed at that very day he sinned just as God promised. Since he was still physically alive the only completed death he experienced that day can only be a spiritual/figurative death. He was not "dying" but "died". The Hebrew demands that meaning. He was born dying because he was created a mortal human being. Aging and physically dying was unrelated to his sin.



Simplified version:

Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

When the Hebrew uses the same verb twice in a row one of the words will be spelled slightly different. One will be the infinitive absolute verb and the other is called the conjugated/inflected verb.

They can mean two different things but not both at the same time:

1. "a continued action over a long period of time" meaning death is a long process because the verb means death.

OR

2. "a future completed death spoken in an emphatic way" re-enforcing the fact that he would definitely/surely die the day he sinned.

It all depends on if the infinitive absolute verb is first and the conjugated/inflected verb is last, or vice versa.

In the manuscripts the the infinitive absolute verb is first and the conjugated/inflected verb is last so the meaning of the verb is "a future completed death spoken in an emphatic way" and NOT "a continued action over a long period of time" meaning death is a long process.

In order for the verb to mean "a continued action over a long period of time" meaning death is a long process it would have to have been the conjugated/inflected verb first and the infinitive absolute verb last but that is not how it appears in the manuscripts.



When it comes second as here: "t'muth muth" then it can only mean "a continued action over a long period of time" meaning death is a long process because the verb means death.

When the infinitive absolute verb comes first as it does here: "muth t'muth" it can only mean "a future completed death spoken in an emphatic way" and that is the order of the verb pairing in Gen 2:17.


I should explain what I mean by, "a future completed death spoken in an emphatic way" because I am aware the conjugated/inflected verb is in the imperfect which means an incompleted action. God spoke these words before Adam sinned which is why the death is not a completed action yet when God spoke those words but the use of the infinitive absolute verb pairing supports the fact that Adam would indeed die the day he sinned as opposed to an incomplete death ie: begin to die. God said he would die the day he sinned and he definitely did. God simply never explained what type of death it would be.

 

[Robert Gwin]

The infinitive absolute verb pairing explained.


Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.


When speaking to a human man and telling him that in the day he sins he will suffer a punishment could only be understood as a literal day wherein he would receive that punishment. The word day means warm, which obviously is a reference to the daylight part of day so this punishment did not occur at night. The word can mean longer than a day in a figurative sense but the context of the passage shows a literal use.

Adam sinned and not long after he died. It simply wasn't a physical death but the type of death any sinless person suffers when they sin for the first time. Sin is a moral/spiritual concept, and the death it brings to a person is spiritual.

Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.


It is claimed by some that this actually means "dying thou shalt die" and is conveying the meaning of "a continued action over a long period of time" meaning Adam began to physically age when he sinned and eventually would die but is this actually an accurate translation and interpretation? No. Allow me to explain:

Gen 2:17 But of the treeH4480 H6086 of the knowledgeH1847 of goodH2896 and evil,H7451 thou shalt notH3808 eatH398 ofH4480 it: forH3588 in the dayH3117 that thou eatestH398 thereofH4480 thou shalt surely die.H4191 H4191

Here we see the word "die" repeated twice, H4191 H4191.

One of the verbs will be written in a different verbal form than the other. That literally means one will have an extra hebrew letter/character despite being the same exact word. That spelling difference and which order the two verbs appear can alter the meaning of the verbs. One verb will be written in the infinitive absolute form. The other verb will be written in the conjugated/inflected form which has the extra letter/character. What the pair of verbs actually mean is based on which form appears first and which is second:

http://kukis.org/Languages/Hebrew4Dummies.pdf



This isn't relative because this is only when the verb is alone and not in a pair as it is in Gen 2:17.




This is when the infinitive absolute form appears first or before the conjugated/inflected form.



This is when the the conjugated/inflected verb form appears first or before infinitive absolute verb form.

So back to the verse and the pair of verbs:

Gen 2:17 But of the treeH4480 H6086 of the knowledgeH1847 of goodH2896 and evil,H7451 thou shalt notH3808 eatH398 ofH4480 it: forH3588 in the dayH3117 that thou eatestH398 thereofH4480 thou shalt surely die.H4191 H4191

Here we see the word "die" repeated twice, H4191 H4191 or using an english transliteration, "muth t'muth". "muth" is the infinitive absolute verb and "t'muth" is the conjugated/inflected verb.

So in Gen 2:17 is the first verb in the "infinitive absolute form" or is the first verb in the "conjugated/inflected form"?

In that verse the first verb is in the "infinitive absolute form" so it appears first: muth t'muth, so this meaning is the correct one:

God was quite clear about it wasn't He sir. It is amazing how many believe that this is not the case. Most who claim to be Christians say the same as satan, you will not die, only your body dies, and God is going to torture sinners unmercifully for an eternity.

I am glad you posted this, because it is important to know that those who choose to violate God's laws unrepentantly will die, just like the Bible reiterates later to us Christians, the wages that sin pays is death.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

When speaking of the subject of death in the scriptures many today disagree with what Genesis 2:7 and Genesis 3:19 say. Before God took dust from the ground and formed it into a flesh and blood body, Adam didn't exist. Many people today when talking about death believe people have souls. Basically what most people today believe is that the soul or spirit in man is a living person that continues to exist either in heaven or hell after death. However the scripture at Genesis 2:7 doesn't say there's a spirit in man that is a living person. Genesis 2:7 says that it's the combined act of God taking dust from the ground forming it into a flesh and blood body then blowing the breath of life(spirit) into the nostrils of the flesh and blood body and Adam came to be a living soul or a living person. So if anyone says that the breath of life(spirit) alone without the flesh and blood body is the living person, the scriptures don't say that. For someone to say that the flesh and blood body without the breath of life(spirit) is the living person, the scriptures don't say that either. So for people to believe we have souls that are living persons in our flesh and blood bodies, this isn't what the scriptures are teaching us, the scriptures teach that the flesh and blood body combined with the breath of life(spirit) is what makes a human body a living soul or living person. So death is nonexistence, because if the spirit leaves a human body that living person ceases to exist, because the breath of life(spirit) without the body isn't a living person. We can use the example of water. Water consists of hydrogen and oxygen. We can take either the hydrogen away or the oxygen away and water ceases to exist. So let's let hydrogen be the spirit and oxygen the flesh and blood body. Putting these two together is what makes a living person but take the hydrogen(spirit) away and the living person no longer exists. This is what death is, nonexistence.

 

[Webers_Home]

.
Adam's death was realized in his loss of immortality.

So; are you mortal or immortal? According to Romans 5:12 you are
supposed to be mortal. Well, if so; then you are dead on the hoof just as
Adam became when he tasted the forbidden fruit.
_

 

[ewq1938]

.
Adam's death was realized in his loss of immortality.

Adam was never immortal. No verse in the bible ever says he was immortal.

 

[marks]

Adam was never immortal. No verse in the bible ever says he was immortal.

Agreed, nothing says Adam was immortal, although certain things can be inferred.

Aside from that, though, sin brought death, what would we think would be the case had he not sinned? He wouldn't have died, right?

Perhaps the power of the tree of life was to make the broken body whole, only, it couldn't restore the dead spirit?

Much love!

 

[Webers_Home]

.

Perhaps the power of the tree of life was to make the broken body whole

According to Rev 22:1-2 the tree of life is a remedy for whatever ails you;
including mortality. For example: when Adam tasted the forbidden fruit (Gen
2:17) his body lost its perpetual youth and began to age. The tree of life
would've restored him to perfect health. (Gen 3:22)

* The WHO, the CDC, the FDA, and the US Surgeon General, would of
course condemn the tree as misinformation in favor of experimental
vaccines.
_

 

[ewq1938]

Agreed, nothing says Adam was immortal, although certain things can be inferred.

Aside from that, though, sin brought death, what would we think would be the case had he not sinned? He wouldn't have died, right?

No, he would have died because he was mortal. The death brought from sin is a spiritual death like the one he suffered the day he sinned.

Perhaps the power of the tree of life was to make the broken body whole, only, it couldn't restore the dead spirit?

The tree of life can provide immortality. Adam clearly never chose to eat from it.

 

[Webers_Home]

.

The tree of life can provide immortality. Adam clearly never chose to eat
from it.

According to Rev 22:1-2 the tree of life isn't designed to provide
immortality, rather, it restores immortality.

When someone already has perfect health, then the tree's fruit is likely good
for a snack but at the same time about as useful for medication as applying
burn ointment to skin that has no burns.
_

 

[ewq1938]

.
According to Rev 22:1-2 the tree of life isn't designed to provide
immortality, rather, it restores immortality.

Rev 22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
Rev 22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

Obviously it is not "according to Revelation 22:1-2" since it says NOTHING about restoring immortality.

When someone already has perfect health, then the tree's fruit is likely good
for a snack but at the same time about as useful for medication as applying
burn ointment to skin that has no burns.

So you deny it can be used to heal the nations yet the text declares that it will heal the nations.


Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

Eating from the tree of life would give someone immortality. Since Adam died, we know he never ate from the tree of life.

 

[EloyCraft]

Adam was never immortal. No verse in the bible ever says he was immortal.

I usually have more to agree with when I read your posts.


You present theology that is a grave distortion of human nature and lacks dignity inherent tor rational creatures especially a creature created in the likeness of God.

That's oxymoronic too ie; a mortal rational being. What a monster. A rational creature naturally like God but created under the power of death. Why?
The power to reason and rational thought have no temporal purpose.
Our flesh wouldn't rebel against the will if they are both mortal.


In fact. it' would be cruel to give the power of reason to a creature that isn't immortal.wl That's why the animals aren't rational beings. They naturally die.

 

[ewq1938]

I usually have more to agree with when I read your posts.

Did you have any scripture showing Adam was ever immortal?

 

[EloyCraft]

[QUOTE="ewq1938, post: 1355399, member: truth you have any scripture showing Adam was ever immortal?[/QUOTE]
It's a truth that runs throughout Scripture as what was lost .
If centuries of Christian interpretation and generations of teaching isn't enough for you to see why would I bother thinking Scripture would be useful? At this point between us, Scripture is serving as something to hide behind.

 

[Taken]

God was quite clear about it wasn't He sir. It is amazing how many believe that this is not the case. Most who claim to be Christians say the same as satan, you will not die, only your body dies, and God is going to torture sinners unmercifully for an eternity.

I am glad you posted this, because it is important to know that those who choose to violate God's laws unrepentantly will die, just like the Bible reiterates later to us Christians, the wages that sin pays is death.

ALL bodily die.
Once Adam was required to bodily die...every earthly man thereafter, was reproduced from the SAME KIND OF CORRUPT SeeD.

Mans seed reproduces it same KIND of Corrupt BODYS, “not souls”.

 

[Jay Ross]

Hello,

May I humbly suggest that many have it all wrong and a read of Ezekiel 18 may throw some light upon our collective understanding as this chapter talks of both obtaining "life" if we repent and keep God's statutes and everlasting death, i.e. the second death if we sin, even for a righteous man, and do not repent, then we will in the distant future experience the second death, i.e. the Lake of Fire.

A better English paraphrasing of Gen. 2:17 is, from my understanding, this: -

Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die/die the second death?
​

Be it as it may be, in Revelation 20 we are told this: -

Rev 20:12-15: - 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire. ​

So it has been from the time of the creation of Adam, those who sin will become candidates for the second death at the time of the final judgement at the end of the Millennium Age.

Shalom

 

[robert derrick]

The infinitive absolute verb pairing explained.


Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.


When speaking to a human man and telling him that in the day he sins he will suffer a punishment could only be understood as a literal day wherein he would receive that punishment. The word day means warm, which obviously is a reference to the daylight part of day so this punishment did not occur at night. The word can mean longer than a day in a figurative sense but the context of the passage shows a literal use.

Adam sinned and not long after he died. It simply wasn't a physical death but the type of death any sinless person suffers when they sin for the first time. Sin is a moral/spiritual concept, and the death it brings to a person is spiritual.

Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.


It is claimed by some that this actually means "dying thou shalt die" and is conveying the meaning of "a continued action over a long period of time" meaning Adam began to physically age when he sinned and eventually would die but is this actually an accurate translation and interpretation? No. Allow me to explain:

Gen 2:17 But of the treeH4480 H6086 of the knowledgeH1847 of goodH2896 and evil,H7451 thou shalt notH3808 eatH398 ofH4480 it: forH3588 in the dayH3117 that thou eatestH398 thereofH4480 thou shalt surely die.H4191 H4191

Here we see the word "die" repeated twice, H4191 H4191.

One of the verbs will be written in a different verbal form than the other. That literally means one will have an extra hebrew letter/character despite being the same exact word. That spelling difference and which order the two verbs appear can alter the meaning of the verbs. One verb will be written in the infinitive absolute form. The other verb will be written in the conjugated/inflected form which has the extra letter/character. What the pair of verbs actually mean is based on which form appears first and which is second:

http://kukis.org/Languages/Hebrew4Dummies.pdf



This isn't relative because this is only when the verb is alone and not in a pair as it is in Gen 2:17.




This is when the infinitive absolute form appears first or before the conjugated/inflected form.



This is when the the conjugated/inflected verb form appears first or before infinitive absolute verb form.

So back to the verse and the pair of verbs:

Gen 2:17 But of the treeH4480 H6086 of the knowledgeH1847 of goodH2896 and evil,H7451 thou shalt notH3808 eatH398 ofH4480 it: forH3588 in the dayH3117 that thou eatestH398 thereofH4480 thou shalt surely die.H4191 H4191

Here we see the word "die" repeated twice, H4191 H4191 or using an english transliteration, "muth t'muth". "muth" is the infinitive absolute verb and "t'muth" is the conjugated/inflected verb.

So in Gen 2:17 is the first verb in the "infinitive absolute form" or is the first verb in the "conjugated/inflected form"?

In that verse the first verb is in the "infinitive absolute form" so it appears first: muth t'muth, so this meaning is the correct one:

Good teaching.

The commandment to Adam is the same commandment to any man, and the wage is the same: the soul that sins shall surely die.

Several true things are taught here: The death is spiritual, the day of sinning is still the day of becoming dead, sin and righteousness are spiritual in nature, and the body dies because it is made mortal, not because of sinning.

Every soul is created living in mortal flesh, beginning with Adam, except Jesus who is the living soul of God and Creator.

Every soul has sinned and died, separating himself from God by sinning, except Jesus.

Surely die: Death is certain, and death continues once the soul sins.

The soul that sins continues dead from God, unless that soul repents of sinning in this life, and believes the gospel of forgiveness for past sins through the blood of Jesus.

Without repentance and believing the gospel, the dead soul remains dead forever, to be judged at the final judgment of the dead:

And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God.

 

[robert derrick]

I will now prove that the infinitive absolute verb does appear first:

Gesenius' Hebrew Grammar/113. The Infinitive Absolute - Wikisource, the free online library



Confirmation it does indeed come first proving which meaning it conveys.


"dying thou shalt die" interpreted to mean "a continued action over a long period of time" and that Adam began to physically age when he sinned and eventually would die is an incorrect interpretation in Gen 2:17. Those that promote this understanding do not properly understand the "infinitive absolute verb pairing" because they are ignorant of the order of the verb forms involved and which meaning is conveyed by their order.

A translation hard to misunderstand would be either "a death thou shalt die" or how it's rendered in the KJV "thou shalt surely die" which shows how the infinitive absolute verb form intensifies or strengthens the meaning of the verb "die". "dying thou shalt die" does not convey a "continued action over a long period of time" though it is often understood in that errant way. Using the verb "dying" in that verse suggests the wrong meaning as if Adam just began the process of dying over time which did not start happening as soon as he sinned. The first verb is supposed to intensify or strengthen the action or the meaning of the second verb yet "dying thou shalt die" fails to convey that properly which leads to many false understandings of this verse. It is a very poor way to translate the Hebrew. "thou shalt surely die" properly conveys the meaning of the verb pairing which "intensifies or strengthens the action or the meaning of the verb" that follows the infinitive absolute verb.

Gesenius' Hebrew Grammer Lexicon:

#113 - ܐܰܟ݂ܰܐܺܝܩܳܘܣ - New Testament Aramaic Lexical Dictionary - StudyLight.org



Note, again, that there is only one meaning when the infinitive absolute verb is first and the conjugated/inflected verb is second; "to strengthen the verbal idea". No other meaning can be attached yet you will find all kinds of article and forums posts which do exactly that due to ignorance of the true meaning of the infinitive absolute/inflected verb pairing. Some will insist it can have both meanings but that is quite untrue!


So, Adam did NOT start to age and slowly die over a period of time when he sinned. The "infinitive absolute form" used in Gen 2:17 proves that theory to be incorrect. The death he experienced was completed at that very day he sinned just as God promised. Since he was still physically alive the only completed death he experienced that day can only be a spiritual/figurative death. He was not "dying" but "died". The Hebrew demands that meaning. He was born dying because he was created a mortal human being. Aging and physically dying was unrelated to his sin.



Simplified version:

Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

When the Hebrew uses the same verb twice in a row one of the words will be spelled slightly different. One will be the infinitive absolute verb and the other is called the conjugated/inflected verb.

They can mean two different things but not both at the same time:

1. "a continued action over a long period of time" meaning death is a long process because the verb means death.

OR

2. "a future completed death spoken in an emphatic way" re-enforcing the fact that he would definitely/surely die the day he sinned.

It all depends on if the infinitive absolute verb is first and the conjugated/inflected verb is last, or vice versa.

In the manuscripts the the infinitive absolute verb is first and the conjugated/inflected verb is last so the meaning of the verb is "a future completed death spoken in an emphatic way" and NOT "a continued action over a long period of time" meaning death is a long process.

In order for the verb to mean "a continued action over a long period of time" meaning death is a long process it would have to have been the conjugated/inflected verb first and the infinitive absolute verb last but that is not how it appears in the manuscripts.



When it comes second as here: "t'muth muth" then it can only mean "a continued action over a long period of time" meaning death is a long process because the verb means death.

When the infinitive absolute verb comes first as it does here: "muth t'muth" it can only mean "a future completed death spoken in an emphatic way" and that is the order of the verb pairing in Gen 2:17.


I should explain what I mean by, "a future completed death spoken in an emphatic way" because I am aware the conjugated/inflected verb is in the imperfect which means an incompleted action. God spoke these words before Adam sinned which is why the death is not a completed action yet when God spoke those words but the use of the infinitive absolute verb pairing supports the fact that Adam would indeed die the day he sinned as opposed to an incomplete death ie: begin to die. God said he would die the day he sinned and he definitely did. God simply never explained what type of death it would be.

It means that once the soul sins, the soul separates himself from God and is spiritually dead, and no more alive as created by Christ.

The death continues immortally, unless God forgives that sinning against Himself.

 

[robert derrick]

Adam was never immortal. No verse in the bible ever says he was immortal.

True, the body was not made immortal, no more than any other naturally born living creature on earth, nor the grass and the trees:

The voice said, Cry. And he said, What shall I cry? All flesh is grass, and all the goodliness thereof is as the flower of the field.

God did not create an immortal heaven and earth, where neither the stars nor planets nor creatures on earth are immortal.

The only immortal creatures are spiritual beings created by God, both angels and men.

Those who speak of the soul and body as being the same, only do so because they still have the minds of natural man.

The speak of spiritual things, but don't know what they are talking about.

 

[robert derrick]

That's oxymoronic too ie; a mortal rational being. What a monster. A rational creature naturally like God but created under the power of death. Why?
The power to reason and rational thought have no temporal purpose.
Our flesh wouldn't rebel against the will if they are both mortal.


In fact. it' would be cruel to give the power of reason to a creature that isn't immortal. That's why the animals aren't rational beings. They naturally die.

The soul of man is the one thinking and is immortal, not the body, which is made mortal from the beginning, As is the grass, so is the flesh.

There's nothing 'naturally' about God. All nature of all created things in heaven and earth is mortality, including every living creature of flesh and blood.

Not the spiritual souls of men and beings of angels.

Our flesh wouldn't rebel against the will if they are both mortal.

The flesh doesn't rebel against anything. The flesh alone doesn't think. It's not the bodies fault for anything the soul of man chooses to do with it.

The souls of men are judged for sinning, not the bodies they sinned with.

[QUOTE="ewq1938, post: 1355399, member:It's a truth that runs throughout Scripture as what was lost .
If centuries of Christian interpretation and generations of teaching isn't enough for you to see why would I bother thinking Scripture would be useful? At this point between us, Scripture is serving as something to hide behind.

Centuries of Jewish interpretation and generations of teaching was enough for them to have Jesus crucified.

I'll hide behind Scripture any day. Traditional teaching is for the blind.