ButterflyJones
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Yours is an odd proposition regarding the location of Lucifer.
If he's still in Heaven then he being Lord of the world is God's doing. And God is a collaborator in all the evil that's going on in this world.
After the Devil is Cast Out
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If he's still in Heaven then he being Lord of the world is God's doing. And God is a collaborator in all the evil that's going on in this world.
robert derrick
Well-Known Member
We read one time in Job where Lucifer, after sinning against God, is allowed in the heavenly assembly of angels. Afterward, the only place found for the roaring lion tempter, prince and power of the air, and the god of this world, is on earth.
I see no reason why the obvious of Rev 11 should be denied with this in mind. After the birth and ascension of Jesus Christ, there is no more place found for Satan in heaven at all. God and the Word no doubt let him enter their assembly before His birth, but no way is that devil allowed to roam free in heaven, after having the Son crucified on a cross.
Some people read into prophecy things, that ignore NT doctrine altogether, as though Jesus and His apostles have not illuminated much mystery of God's prophecies.
No, your view of what Heaven is, is the odd view that does not agree with God's Word.
I realize that some Jews also think God's Abode of Heaven is up in the clouds around the earth somewhere too, which is even more odd.
No, Heaven, where the abode of God and the angels is, is behind a hidden veil we cannot see. It is of the dimension of Spirit, because Apostle John said God is a Spirit, and that means non-earthly matter.
So you really need to adjust your carnal fleshy thinking, because it does not align with what God's Word teaches about the Heavenly dimension.
That Revelation 12:11 event is for the END, not the Apostles days. You should have realized that event is linked to this, which is also definitely about the END of this world, and NOT back in history...
Rev 12:9-14
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
Jesus was not born in the flesh yet, nor crucified yet when Satan first rebelled in coveting God's throne in the old world. So if the above Scripture is about Satan's original rebellion time, then HOW is it that Christ's Salvation is mentioned have come then?
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
That verse is about the 5th Seal when the souls under God's Altar ask Him, "how long" until He avenges their blood. God tells them to wait yet a little season, until their brethren and fellowservants are killed as they were.
12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
KJV
That "time, and times, and half a time" is the 1260 days period of the coming "great tribulation" for the END of this world.
Rev 6:9-11
9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, "How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost Thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?"
11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
KJV
Brethren in Christ (not you Preterists who try to make everything as past in God's Word) -- there is an element among the Body of Christ that has crept in that are trying... to make THIS PRESENT WORLD Christ's Kingdom having come already. The ones that are actually driving them are Lucifer's servants that plan to setup the one-world beast kingdom of ten horns, seven heads, and ten crowns of Revelation 13 for the end of this world.
That is one of the reasons why Preterism and Historicism exists; its purpose is to try and put as much as possible of Bible prophecy for the END instead back in past history. This is why they even use the seminary term Futurist for anyone that recognizes Bible prophecy that is only for the END of this world, as per many Scriptures, especially Christ's Book of Revelation. Don't listen to them. Listen to God in His Word about the END time events. The whole of the Matthew 24 and Mark 13 chapters are specifically about Lord Jesus' warnings to His servants about events of the END leading up to His future return. They are the SIGNS of the Seals of Revelation 6 too, which Lord Jesus gave us in order to summarize the events leading up to His return.
ButterflyJones
Well-Known Member
Oh... I answered your post to be sure. But you have a problem with 'wanting' to understand what I explained from God's Word. Thus you need more Bible study in all of God's Word, and to quit listening to men's doctrines that cannot save.
VictoryinJesus
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That they should rest yet for a little season…Satan released for a little season? What is a little season …is it measured by years? He told them they could discern the season by looking at the sky, whether it would rain. Whether a cloud was coming on the horizon. But they (I think he called them hypocrites) could not tell what season it was, what time it was. Because he was there, and they are looking up at the sky.
That they should be tested for a little season…satan released for a little season (because God does not tempt nor can He be tempted)…while your brothers if need be as you were, that the trial of their Faith being much more precious than gold which perishes, though tested by fire might be found unto praise and honor, and glory at the appearance of Christ. What is the white robes given if not praise and honor and glory at the appearance of Christ. Yet they are instructed to rest until others (their brothers as John says in the Revelation of Christ)
Revelation 1:9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.
See: for the testimony of Jesus Christ?Rev 6:9-11
9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
See: for the testimony of Jesus Christ.
“Fellow companions in tribulations”
“I John am also your brother”
What you wrote about their being told to rest …what is rest if not “have patience” …they ask “how long”…the reply “have patience of Jesus Christ”
“For you will have need of patience” (patience of Jesus Christ) for a little season while your brothers, companions in tribulation…whom I John am a companion of, till other brethren go through also. (Do not think it is strange when a fiery trial comes upon you to test some of you). It is a little season.
1 Peter 1:6-7 Wherein you greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations: [7] That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
Can we tell what season it is? Is it the same season for every one? Is everyone in the same season? If that verse is about a 3 1/2 years period of satan being loosed for those years…to me we miss what season satan is loosed for the trying of.
I get you will still say no it wasn’t in the time of the Apostles but that doesn’t seem to be what John says whom penned the Revelation of Jesus Christ saying he was a fellow companion in tribulations for the testimony of Jesus Christ.
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No, you missed it. See Rev.12:12, it's there right after we're told about those who will give a Testimony (on the 5th Seal) in verse 11. The "short time". Satan knows he has a "short time". Well since that is given within Scripture that is also about 5th Seal timing, you ought to be able to put 2 + 2 together, and figure out that is pointing to the short time at the 'end' of this world. So what's that? The "great tribulation" time which Jesus Himself said He shortened in Matthew 24 for the sake of His elect. I mean, in Rev.13:4-8 you have the "dragon" attacking and having power over the saints for 42 months at the end, so why can't you figure this "short time" out that is also linked to those saints of the 5th Seal timing regarding the "little season"? The Seals of Rev.6 do not happen over a period of centuries; they happen in the final generation that will see Christ's coming.
VictoryinJesus
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Not released, it just says he knows he has a "short time". Don't read what others say into it, read it as written.
Rev 12:12
12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
KJV
Rev 13:4-8
4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
KJV
VictoryinJesus
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If in the above he knows his time is short…is he loosed another little season? Knowing it is short “little” time? Are there two little seasons where he knows his time is short?
Revelation 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
ButterflyJones
Well-Known Member
Satan is already today roaming about like a lion, seeking whom he may devour (per 1 Peter 5:8). So I'm not going to heed nonsense that Satan has to be 'loosed' for the end, because that is nowhere written. Satan was not 'bound' at the cross, like some men wrongly teach. He will not be 'bound' until the day of Jesus' future return.
Yes, it is OK, believe what you want. I don't have time to waste with you.
VictoryinJesus
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he is loose now seeking whom to devour knowing his time is short, and will be bound when Jesus returns. Where does the three years come into satans little season? When he is loose (now) or after he is bound for the 1000 years? If he is loose now until bound when Jesus returns, then he is bound at Christ’s return…wouldn’t the little season where satan knows his time is short be after the 1000 years, instead of a three year before it? Because he is loosed after the 1000 years no?
The 42 months of Rev.13 that Satan (the "dragon") will have power over all peoples is about the time of "great tribulation" that Lord Jesus forewarned to happen just prior to His return. It is based on the final symbolic "one week" of the Book of Daniel, the Daniel 9:27 verse. That symbolic "one week" equals a period of 7 years. But in the middle of that period, the coming false-Christ is to place the "abomination of desolation" IDOL Jesus warned about.
The order of the 'end' per Bible Scripture is this:
1. false-Christ shows up in Jerusalem, starting Daniel's final symbolic "one week" (7 years).
2. new Jewish temple in Jerusalem built.
3. the Jew's old covenant worship with sacrifices started up again in Jerusalem.
4. after 1260 days, the false Christ ends old covenant worship, and instead sets up the "abomination of desolation" IDOL, i.e., the "image of the beast" of Rev.13.
5. the false-Christ, i.e, "dragon", then reigns for the latter 1260 days, or 42 months of Rev.13. This is the "short time", the little season the dragon will reign; it is what Jesus called the "great tribulation".
6. Lord Jesus returns to destroy that false-Christ and end this present world, and gather His faithful Church.
Another reason why Old Testament study is important is because of "ensamples", like Apostle Paul said in 1 Corinthians 10:11.
The time of God's prophet Daniel and his fellows while in the Babylon captivity of 70 years has parallels to the coming "great tribulation" time at the end of this world.
God took care of Daniel and his fellows like Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego while captive in Babylon, until at the end when the false gold idol image was made of Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon, and required everyone to bow to it in worship, or be killed.
For the end just prior to Lord Jesus' return, the coming time of "great tribulation" with the coming false-Christ in Jerusalem, that false one will likewise setup the "image of the beast" of Revelation 13, and require all to bow in worship to it, or be killed.
Daniel was to be nourished for 3 years in order to be presented to the king of Babylon, Nebuchadnezzar (Daniel 1). He was given to eat the king's meat and drink the king's wine. But Daniel asked to instead eat 'pace' (vegetables) and drink water, and compare his complexion after ten days to the complexion of the king's servants that ate at the king's table. This I believe represents the symbols involving God's Word ("strong meat") and the living waters also from God. Daniel chose that instead of the meat and wine of the king of Babylon. It represents staying in God's Word at the end, instead of men's traditions which would be represented by the king of Babylon.
The 3 years Daniel was to be nourished is a symbol for the three and one half years, or 1260 days, or 42 months, of the time of "great tribulation" at the end of this world. At the end of the 3 years, Daniel was to be presented to the king, which represents the time of some of Christ's saints being delivered up at the end to give a Testimony by The Holy Spirit for Lord Jesus (per Mark 13:11-13 and Revelation 2:10).
The false prophets of the king of Babylon were jealous of the king exalting Daniel over them because of God giving Daniel to interpret Nebuchadnezzar's dream. So they got Nebuchadnezzar to make a golden idol image of himself, and at the sound of the psalter (music instr.), everyone would be required to bow in worship to it.
Daniel and his fellows refused to bow to it, but prayed to God instead. The false prophets sneaked around to see if Daniel and his fellows were bowing to the idol, and when they discovered they didn't, then they told the king, who had Daniel thrown into the lion's den, and Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego thrown into a hot fiery furnace heated 7 times hotter than necessary.
The lions didn't touch Daniel as he came out unharmed.
When Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego were thrown into the hot fiery furnace, Nebuchadnezzar looked over and saw a 4th man likened unto The Son of God in the fire with them. They came out of that fiery furnace and their clothes did not even smell of smoke. But when the king of Babylon's servants just went near that fiery furnace, they were burned up, incinerated.
The hot fiery furnace represents the event on the last day of this world with God's consuming fire burning man's works off this earth, and ending this present flesh world. Zechariah 14 gives a vivid description of the destruction of some of the wicked on that day, their flesh will consume away while they stand upon their feet, their eyes will consume away in their holes, and their tongues melting in their mouth, basically like the scene of the Nazi soldiers burning up at the end of the movie Raiders of the Lost Ark.
But with Christ's faithful, like Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego, Jesus Christ will protect us through... that consuming fire, just like He did with Daniel and his fellows during their Babylon captivity and trial.
When Lord Jesus included the BABYLON symbol in His Book of Revelation, He was pointing to those events in the Book of Daniel as an "ensample" for us upon whom the ends of the world have come (1 Cor.10).
The time of God's prophet Daniel and his fellows while in the Babylon captivity of 70 years has parallels to the coming "great tribulation" time at the end of this world.
God took care of Daniel and his fellows like Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego while captive in Babylon, until at the end when the false gold idol image was made of Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon, and required everyone to bow to it in worship, or be killed.
For the end just prior to Lord Jesus' return, the coming time of "great tribulation" with the coming false-Christ in Jerusalem, that false one will likewise setup the "image of the beast" of Revelation 13, and require all to bow in worship to it, or be killed.
Daniel was to be nourished for 3 years in order to be presented to the king of Babylon, Nebuchadnezzar (Daniel 1). He was given to eat the king's meat and drink the king's wine. But Daniel asked to instead eat 'pace' (vegetables) and drink water, and compare his complexion after ten days to the complexion of the king's servants that ate at the king's table. This I believe represents the symbols involving God's Word ("strong meat") and the living waters also from God. Daniel chose that instead of the meat and wine of the king of Babylon. It represents staying in God's Word at the end, instead of men's traditions which would be represented by the king of Babylon.
The 3 years Daniel was to be nourished is a symbol for the three and one half years, or 1260 days, or 42 months, of the time of "great tribulation" at the end of this world. At the end of the 3 years, Daniel was to be presented to the king, which represents the time of some of Christ's saints being delivered up at the end to give a Testimony by The Holy Spirit for Lord Jesus (per Mark 13:11-13 and Revelation 2:10).
The false prophets of the king of Babylon were jealous of the king exalting Daniel over them because of God giving Daniel to interpret Nebuchadnezzar's dream. So they got Nebuchadnezzar to make a golden idol image of himself, and at the sound of the psalter (music instr.), everyone would be required to bow in worship to it.
Daniel and his fellows refused to bow to it, but prayed to God instead. The false prophets sneaked around to see if Daniel and his fellows were bowing to the idol, and when they discovered they didn't, then they told the king, who had Daniel thrown into the lion's den, and Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego thrown into a hot fiery furnace heated 7 times hotter than necessary.
The lions didn't touch Daniel as he came out unharmed.
When Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego were thrown into the hot fiery furnace, Nebuchadnezzar looked over and saw a 4th man likened unto The Son of God in the fire with them. They came out of that fiery furnace and their clothes did not even smell of smoke. But when the king of Babylon's servants just went near that fiery furnace, they were burned up, incinerated.
The hot fiery furnace represents the event on the last day of this world with God's consuming fire burning man's works off this earth, and ending this present flesh world. Zechariah 14 gives a vivid description of the destruction of some of the wicked on that day, their flesh will consume away while they stand upon their feet, their eyes will consume away in their holes, and their tongues melting in their mouth, basically like the scene of the Nazi soldiers burning up at the end of the movie Raiders of the Lost Ark.
But with Christ's faithful, like Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego, Jesus Christ will protect us through... that consuming fire, just like He did with Daniel and his fellows during their Babylon captivity and trial.
When Lord Jesus included the BABYLON symbol in His Book of Revelation, He was pointing to those events in the Book of Daniel as an "ensample" for us upon whom the ends of the world have come (1 Cor.10).
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VictoryinJesus
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None of that addresses the questions I asked but instead gives me a theology that refuses to take into consideration anything else outside of it. Why during the 3 and a half years you said this time has been shortened. Yet after the thousand years, satan is loosed for a little season? Why “little” …is that not shortened to a “little” season? Why and when does satan know his time is short? For the 3 and a half years of the seven year tribulation or after the thousand year reign. And don’t think I’m pushing pre or amm (don’t know how to spell it hope you get it) because I’m nether before or after because I don’t really know what the thousand year reign is except a day with the Lord is like a thousand years. I’m asking you from the perspective you hold…what is shortened for the elects sake? The 3 1/2 years because the perspective is that is why it is 3 1/2 …for it has been shortened and satan knows his time is short. OR Revelation 20:2-3 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, [3] And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
Forget what you think I’ve been taught or influenced by men. I’m asking you which has been shortened for the elect the 3 1/2 years or the little season after the thousand years? Will you tell me which you see as what is spoken of as shortened. I feel like you have already said multiple times …it is the 3 1/2 years because that is WHY it is shortened to 3 1/2…ok. But for me you haven’t addressed the little season of satan being loosed after the thousand years of being bound and shut up. I’m asking how the perspective you keep includes this little season?
That is one question I truly want to have you explain. Not with a passage that you assume “duh” there it is, which isn’t answering the question but giving the theology without an answer.
If you actually comprehend when you read the Rev.20 chapter, you should realize that the resurrection has happened, simply because of mention about those of the "first resurrection" reigning with Jesus in that time, and even in verse 9 about the existence of the "camp of the saints" on earth in that "thousand years" period. That ought... to be plenty enough for you understand that Lord Jesus' return had to happen first, before all those things.
Then, after mention of those events, only then it speaks of Satan being bound for that "thousand years" period, bound in his pit prison. And Isaiah 24:22 also hints about the kings of the earth that followed him being bound in that prison with him, and visited "after many days" (meaning after the 1,000 years).
And then Rev.20 reveals AFTER... that "thousand years", Satan will be loosed to go tempt the unsaved nations one final time. He will lead those unsaved against the "camp of the saints" on earth, and God's fire from Heaven will come down and burn up Satan's host, with Satan cast into the "lake of fire".
So the Revelation 20 chapter gives all these things in a 'specific' order that is impossible to mix up, if followed 'as written'.
Obviously, you are not willing to STAY WITH GOD'S WRITTEN WORD, as that... is what I proclaimed to you, NOT some stupid theory!!!
It's also obvious now that you are here to PLAY GAMES, and are NOT serious about God's Word. The true Bible student here should beware of those like YOU.
Therefore, MAY MY HEAVENLY FATHER REBUKE YOU, IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST!
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