After the Devil is Cast Out

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Timtofly

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What does this have to do with when/if Satan has been or shall be cast out of heaven to the earth? Don't know how you understand Scripture, but very clearly John writes in Rev 12 that when the Christ child was born there was a war in heaven between Michael and his angels and Satan and his angels, and Satan and his angels were cast out of heaven to the earth. What is very telling regarding this time when Christ was born is when Satan and his angels were cast out of heaven a loud voice from heaven was heard saying, "Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ". It seems the door to heaven opened wide for all who have and will physically die believing in Christ HAVE eternal life. When the Christ child resurrects from death, before ascending to heaven He will descend into the place of the dead (Satan's domain) and spiritually take the faithful dead with Him to heaven as He ascends there.

(See Rev 12)
Not even close to what John says.

"And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days."

That is a seperate thought from:


"And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."

You claimed Satan was cast out before Jesus was even born. You have the 2 sections in a different order.

At some point you have to come back to the point the 7th Trumpet even sounded.

Are you claiming the 7th Trumpet was prior to the birth of Jesus? Prior to even Satan being cast out of heaven way before the birth of Jesus?

The war with Michael is not associated with the birth of Jesus there was a 1260 day period between Jesus caught up and the woman fleeing even before Michael cast Satan out.
 
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rwb

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Not even close to what John says.

"And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days."

That is a seperate thought from:


"And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."

A separate thought would not begin with 'and'. You cannot arbitrarily detach this verse from its context to force an unbiblical doctrine. The entire chapter is one continuous thought of all that came upon the earth with the birth of the Christ child. Only one verse (12) does not begin with 'and'. It begins with 'therefore' which is also used to connect the previous, and continuous thought.

AND I have never said that Satan was cast out of heaven to the earth before the birth of Christ. Satan has always had access to earth. This is proven from the first book of the Bible, where we find the serpent in the garden at creation. Satan was however cast out of heaven to the earth with his angels WHEN Christ was born.
 

Timtofly

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A separate thought would not begin with 'and'. You cannot arbitrarily detach this verse from its context to force an unbiblical doctrine. The entire chapter is one continuous thought of all that came upon the earth with the birth of the Christ child. Only one verse (12) does not begin with 'and'. It begins with 'therefore' which is also used to connect the previous, and continuous thought.

AND I have never said that Satan was cast out of heaven to the earth before the birth of Christ. Satan has always had access to earth. This is proven from the first book of the Bible, where we find the serpent in the garden at creation. Satan was however cast out of heaven to the earth with his angels WHEN Christ was born.
I am not making a doctrine. You are.

The whole book of Revelation contains seperate thoughts with the word "and".

Otherwise the whole book is one thought and happens at the Second Coming. You could not use it as recap going back to the first century. You just refuted your own Amil doctrine by stating that "and" is not placed between seperate thoughts.

The angels left heaven and were bound. You have no Scripture claiming they were loosed at the time of the birth of Jesus. So you are incorrect in your interpretation, and literally making stuff up. The angels were loosed in the 5th Trumpet, because that is when the angel opened the pit where they are bound.

If you claim the angels are not kicked out of heaven at the 7th Trumpet, are you saying they have not been released yet, but when they are, they will time travel to the birth of Jesus to get kicked out of heaven then? Then they are released again and never kicked out of heaven the last time?

Why would Satan be bound now, but the angels are not, because they were only bound once, back when they rebelled in Adam's day. Unless you are saying they only rebelled at the birth of Christ, and had been faithful up until the birth of Jesus.

I agree that Satan had and still has access to heaven. That does not stop until Revelation 20. Satan was not kicked out of heaven at the birth of Jesus. Because his time was short. "Short time" is not 2,000 years in length. Explain how Satan set up a Babylonian empire in the first century.

I simply read that the angels were loosed at the 5th Trumpet. By the 7th Trumpet, they had to be kicked out of heaven, because they had made it to heaven by the time the 7th Trumpet sounded.

That is not a doctrine. That is just simple reading compression, without adding a private eschatological twist to support your pet end time theory. It is you that needs the angels kicked out thousands of years ago, not me.
 

Davy

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Lol.
What ever you want to think or say can suit you........
I stand by, on and with my post and assertions.

Really not gonna make my hair RED bc of this simple difference in opinions....mine & yours.
Nah, that won't work with you trying to make this just a simple disagreement between you and I. You are not staying.. with the Scriptures as written that I showed, and that's a whole different matter I am calling to your attention. Understanding in God's Word is not simply about person's egos clashing to see who can be right. It is about staying with what GOD says in His Word, and letting the chips fall where they may.

And I tell you this, IF... you actually want to know God's Truth in His written Word, meaning His help in understanding it, you MUST... learn to 'keep' and 'stay' with what the Scripture says as written. If you stray even a little towards men's doctrines when you don't understand a Scripture, instead of asking Him directly about it, then He can CLOSE OFF YOUR UNDERSTANDING until you embrace confusion and think you got the correct answers.
 

Davy

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What does this have to do with when/if Satan has been or shall be cast out of heaven to the earth? Don't know how you understand Scripture, but very clearly John writes in Rev 12 that when the Christ child was born there was a war in heaven between Michael and his angels and Satan and his angels, and Satan and his angels were cast out of heaven to the earth. What is very telling regarding this time when Christ was born is when Satan and his angels were cast out of heaven a loud voice from heaven was heard saying, "Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ". It seems the door to heaven opened wide for all who have and will physically die believing in Christ HAVE eternal life. When the Christ child resurrects from death, before ascending to heaven He will descend into the place of the dead (Satan's domain) and spiritually take the faithful dead with Him to heaven as He ascends there.

(See Rev 12)
I see you have fallen into 'confusion' also. Nowhere in the Revelation 12:1-6 Scripture does it mention about a war in Heaven.

What the Revelation 12:1-5 verses represent is a SUMMARY OF EVENTS from the time of Satan's original fall and beast kingdom of old, and then the symbolic 'woman' of Genesis (i.e., Eve) and the start of Christ's family, and the devil trying to destroy the offspring of the 'woman' from Genesis all the way down Christ's birth, and then Christ's reign over all nations (which is still future to us). So what we have with that is a SUMMARY in five verses.

Then at Revelation 12:6 is the FIRST HALF OF DANIEL'S SYMBOLIC "ONE WEEK", or 1260 days. The "abomination of desolation" IDOL is not placed until the MIDDLE of that symbolic "one week", so the countdown for the latter half 1260 days will not begin until the placing of the AOD Idol in a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem.

The future Antichrist appears with the placing of the "abomination of desolation" that Lord Jesus forewarned about in His Olivet discourse (Matthew 24:15; Mark 13:14). That represents the MIDDLE of the Daniel 9:27 symbolic "one week". That means the LATTER HALF, or 1260 days will begin at that AOD event. That will start the time of the "great tribulation" Lord Jesus warned about there.

And the next verse in Revelation 12 is verse 7, which is when the WAR IN HEAVEN will take place, with Satan and his angels cast OUT OF THE HEAVENLY DIMENSION down to this earth, in the sight of men. And it is then... that those of the 5th Seal will be persecuted by him with his going after the symbolic 'woman', which will then represent Christ's Church.
 

Jay Ross

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I see you have fallen into 'confusion' also. Nowhere in the Revelation 12:1-6 Scripture does it mention about a war in Heaven.

But there is mentioned of a war, in heaven, that lasts for around 2,000 years in Daniel 9:26b.

Daniel 9:26b: -
And the people of the prince who is to come​
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.​
The end of it shall be with a flood,​
And till the end of the war desolations are determined.​

The war in heaven, mentioned in Rev. 12:7-12, also occurs on the earth, which is led by the Fallen Angel, the Little Horn who is also described as the False Prophet in the Book of Revelation. This war on the earth is mentioned in Daniel 8:9-14.

We need to look elsewhere in the scriptures, to find the links between the scripture passages.

Shalom
 
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Davy

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But there is mentioned of a war, in heaven, that lasts for around 2,000 years in Daniel 9:26b.

Daniel 9:26b: -
And the people of the prince who is to come​
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.​
The end of it shall be with a flood,​
And till the end of the war desolations are determined.​

The war in heaven, mentioned in Rev. 12:7-12, also occurs on the earth, which is led by the Fallen Angel, the Little Horn who is also described as the False Prophet in the Book of Revelation. This war on the earth is mentioned in Daniel 8:9-14.

We need to look elsewhere in the scriptures, to find the links between the scripture passages.

Shalom
That above is just CONFUSION.

The subject of that 'prince' as a SYMBOL FOR ANTICHRIST continues into the Daniel 9:27 verse which is about the END of this world.

Dan 9:26-27
26 And after sixty-two weeks Christ shall be slain: and the people that shall deny him shall not be his. And a people with their leader that shall come, shall destroy the city and the sanctuary: and the end thereof shall be waste, and after the end of the war the appointed desolation.

27 And
he shall confirm the covenant with many, in one week: and in the half of the week the victim and the sacrifice shall fall: and there shall be in the temple the abomination of desolation: and the desolation shall continue even to the consummation, and to the end.
Douay-Rheims


Notice that "he" at the start of verse 27. The English DEMANDS that we go up and pick up the "he" subject of the previous verse.

And that "he" has to go back to that "leader that shall come" (Titus) that destroyed Jerusalem and the 2nd temple in 70 A.D. That "leader" then, in 70 A.D., served as a TYPE OF ANTICHRIST...

(Per history, the Roman general Titus DID NOT PLACE the "abomination of desolation" IDOL which Lord Jesus forewarned about for the end. Per the Jewish historian Josephus, the Jerusalem temple burned down BEFORE the Romans could get possession of it. And a standing Jewish temple in Jerusalem must exist in order for the "abomination of desolation" IDOL event in Daniel 9:27 and Daniel 8, and Daniel 11, and Daniel 12, and Matthew 24:15 and Mark 13:14 can happen.)


But Lord Jesus showed that Dan.9:27 "abomination of desolation" IDOL event in Jerusalem IS FOR THE VERY END OF THIS WORLD! So there is a PROBLEM with those thinking verse 27 was past history also. And since that "he" of verse 27 is ATTACHED TO THE SUBJECT OF THAT "leader" in verse 26, as an "antichrist" lets say, then the one of verse 27 means WHO??

The "he" of Daniel 9:27 is about the FINAL ANTICHRIST FOR THE VERY END OF THIS WORLD. Not hard to figure out by simply staying in the Scriptures.
 

rwb

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Rev 12:1-6 shows what took place in heaven that would be of enormous consequence for the whole earth. The woman symbolizes the Old Covenant Church in the wilderness (world). The great red dragon, having seven crowned heads, with ten horns, and a tail that drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and cast them to the earth tried to devour the Christ child as soon as He was born.

All of this is highly symbolic language that shows Satan, and his minions could not prevent the birth of Christ and will not be able to destroy the Church as the message (Gospel) about Christ is proclaimed in all the earth. Christ says, "I will build my Church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." (Mt 16:18) From the very beginning of the Church, the representation of the Kingdom of God in heaven that came with Christ to the earth, Satan tried to prevent Christ from building His Kingdom. Knowing that when the Kingdom of God in heaven is complete, he will be forever destroyed.

The woman in John's vision represents the Old Covenant Church in the wilderness. John defines who the woman is, depicting her as fulfillment of Joseph's dream. In the dream, Joseph, as a foreshadow of Christ, would be ruler over his people Israel in Egypt. Joseph's dream foreshadowed the coming of Christ. Joseph as a depiction of Christ would rule over his father, the sun, mother, the moon and the eleven stars as his brothers. Joseph's dream, foreshadowing the birth of Christ came true, and Joseph did rule over his own family from whom the nation came, and from whom Christ was born.

Genesis 37:9-10 (KJV) And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me. And he told it to his father, and to his brethren: and his father rebuked him, and said unto him, What is this dream that thou hast dreamed? Shall I and thy mother and thy brethren indeed come to bow down ourselves to thee to the earth?

But in fulfillment of the dream, John's vision depicts the birth of Christ from the nation, who would be ruler over all the nations of the earth. Israel of Old is the woman from whom the Christ child was born, a depiction of the Church in the wilderness. (Acts 7:38)

The great red dragon we are told is that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan (vs. 9). This dragon, unlike the serpent in the garden, now has seven heads with seven crowns, and ten horns. If this was depicting the fall in the garden through the serpent he would not be shown with this power. In the beginning deception was the only tool in Satan's arsenal over a pristine, and sinless creation. By the first century AD when Christ was born, Satan has amassed power over seven kings/kingdoms, which is what crowns symbolize, as well at ten horns, that according to Rev 17:12 are ten kings who had yet received no kingdom. Through Satan and his minions, the whole world is deceived (vs. 9).

This is a depiction of the world that was when the Christ child was born through the Old Covenant Church in the wilderness when Christ was born a Jew, from the tribe of Judah and the nation of Israel. If we look back to Joseph's dream, and John's description of the woman, we're reminded that twelve stars symbolize the twelve sons of Jacob that complete Israel. John describes the great dragon as casting down from heaven the third part of the stars from heaven to the earth. The third part of the twelve sons of the tribes of Israel were swept away, caught up in evil. This casting down stars to the ground is fulfillment of Dan 8:10. This is why Paul writes that only "the remnant of them shall be saved." (Ro 9:27) This surely explains why the majority of the Jews rejected Christ and crucified their Messiah/Savior.

The Old Covenant nation of Israel, as the Church in the wilderness (Acts 7:38), as the representation of the Kingdom of God on earth was chosen to be a light or light bearers as are the stars of heaven unto the world. Ellicott's Bible Commentary : And his tail . . .—Translate," And his tail drags (or, sweeps) away the third part of the stars of the heaven, and casts them to the earth. The stars are the light- bearers, the illustrious of earth, who were given by God high place that they might be burning and shining lights for Him. A large proportion of these are drawn away in the train of evil; they are cast down from their high position of noble opportunities of good work and great work; they are dragged down from the height of the grandest possibilities of good to the low level of a life enslaved to evil."

After the child was born the Church (woman) in the wilderness is protected for a thousand two hundred and threescore days. This is the same time given the two witnesses (Rev 11) to proclaim the Gospel under the inspiration and power of the Spirit. When the two witnesses have finished their testimony, they are killed by the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit. After being dead for three- and one-half days, they are resurrected to life again and through a voice heard from heaven they ascend up to heaven. Understanding a thousand two hundred and threescore days is the time given for bringing the testimony of Christ unto all the earth during this Church/Gospel age, we cannot limit this time to three and a half years. This time covers the whole Gospel/Church age.

This time a thousand two hundred threescore days given for building the Kingdom of God in heaven as the Church on earth goes out with the Gospel of Christ and whosoever hears and believes spiritually enters the Kingdom of God and has eternal life. Within this same time Satan also has time likened to forty-two months when using every earthly power at his disposal he comes against Christ and His Church on earth attempting to prevent the Kingdom of God in heaven from being built. (Rev 11:2; 13:5)

These times that go concurrently throughout the whole Gospel/Church age according to both Daniel and John are defined and divided as time and times and the dividing/half of time. Dan 7:23-24 "The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces. And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings."

Daniel 7:25 (KJV) And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

Daniel desires to know how long it will be from the time that Michael stands up (Rev 12:7-9) for the children of his people (faithful saints) until the time of the end. John shows Michael defeating Satan after the birth of Christ, the man clothed in linen tells Daniel this shall be a time, times and an half when all these things shall be finished. John also says the Church (woman) in the wilderness is nourished for a time, and times and half a time. During the same time, times, and half/dividing of time the Church on earth is being both attacked and nourished while in this world.

Daniel 12:7 (KJV) And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

Revelation 12:14 (KJV) And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

In Rev 12 after Satan and his angels are cast out of heaven to the earth the consequences are seen not only through his great wrath as his evil effects the whole earth. But also, a great voice from heaven is heard saying, "Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death
." The Christ child had to be born a human to assure this Child would grow up to be a man who would give His life as a propitiation for sin. His birth assures His cross and resurrection that defeated sin and death.
 

Davy

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Rev 12:1-6 shows what took place in heaven that would be of enormous consequence for the whole earth. The woman symbolizes the Old Covenant Church in the wilderness (world). The great red dragon, having seven crowned heads, with ten horns, and a tail that drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and cast them to the earth tried to devour the Christ child as soon as He was born.

All of this is highly symbolic language that shows Satan, and his minions could not prevent the birth of Christ and will not be able to destroy the Church as the message (Gospel) about Christ is proclaimed in all the earth. Christ says, "I will build my Church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." (Mt 16:18) From the very beginning of the Church, the representation of the Kingdom of God in heaven that came with Christ to the earth, Satan tried to prevent Christ from building His Kingdom. Knowing that when the Kingdom of God in heaven is complete, he will be forever destroyed.

The woman in John's vision represents the Old Covenant Church in the wilderness. John defines who the woman is, depicting her as fulfillment of Joseph's dream. In the dream, Joseph, as a foreshadow of Christ, would be ruler over his people Israel in Egypt. Joseph's dream foreshadowed the coming of Christ. Joseph as a depiction of Christ would rule over his father, the sun, mother, the moon and the eleven stars as his brothers. Joseph's dream, foreshadowing the birth of Christ came true, and Joseph did rule over his own family from whom the nation came, and from whom Christ was born.

Genesis 37:9-10 (KJV) And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me. And he told it to his father, and to his brethren: and his father rebuked him, and said unto him, What is this dream that thou hast dreamed? Shall I and thy mother and thy brethren indeed come to bow down ourselves to thee to the earth?

But in fulfillment of the dream, John's vision depicts the birth of Christ from the nation, who would be ruler over all the nations of the earth. Israel of Old is the woman from whom the Christ child was born, a depiction of the Church in the wilderness. (Acts 7:38)

The great red dragon we are told is that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan (vs. 9). This dragon, unlike the serpent in the garden, now has seven heads with seven crowns, and ten horns. If this was depicting the fall in the garden through the serpent he would not be shown with this power. In the beginning deception was the only tool in Satan's arsenal over a pristine, and sinless creation. By the first century AD when Christ was born, Satan has amassed power over seven kings/kingdoms, which is what crowns symbolize, as well at ten horns, that according to Rev 17:12 are ten kings who had yet received no kingdom. Through Satan and his minions, the whole world is deceived (vs. 9).

This is a depiction of the world that was when the Christ child was born through the Old Covenant Church in the wilderness when Christ was born a Jew, from the tribe of Judah and the nation of Israel. If we look back to Joseph's dream, and John's description of the woman, we're reminded that twelve stars symbolize the twelve sons of Jacob that complete Israel. John describes the great dragon as casting down from heaven the third part of the stars from heaven to the earth. The third part of the twelve sons of the tribes of Israel were swept away, caught up in evil. This casting down stars to the ground is fulfillment of Dan 8:10. This is why Paul writes that only "the remnant of them shall be saved." (Ro 9:27) This surely explains why the majority of the Jews rejected Christ and crucified their Messiah/Savior.

The Old Covenant nation of Israel, as the Church in the wilderness (Acts 7:38), as the representation of the Kingdom of God on earth was chosen to be a light or light bearers as are the stars of heaven unto the world. Ellicott's Bible Commentary : And his tail . . .—Translate," And his tail drags (or, sweeps) away the third part of the stars of the heaven, and casts them to the earth. The stars are the light- bearers, the illustrious of earth, who were given by God high place that they might be burning and shining lights for Him. A large proportion of these are drawn away in the train of evil; they are cast down from their high position of noble opportunities of good work and great work; they are dragged down from the height of the grandest possibilities of good to the low level of a life enslaved to evil."

After the child was born the Church (woman) in the wilderness is protected for a thousand two hundred and threescore days. This is the same time given the two witnesses (Rev 11) to proclaim the Gospel under the inspiration and power of the Spirit. When the two witnesses have finished their testimony, they are killed by the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit. After being dead for three- and one-half days, they are resurrected to life again and through a voice heard from heaven they ascend up to heaven. Understanding a thousand two hundred and threescore days is the time given for bringing the testimony of Christ unto all the earth during this Church/Gospel age, we cannot limit this time to three and a half years. This time covers the whole Gospel/Church age.
At that point is when you started going off into 'men's doctrines', leaving the actual Scriptures.

Christ's New Covenant Church is simply a continuation of God's Old Testament Church in the wilderness. It just wasn't time for Christ Jesus to be born back then. God preserved a certain family in that OT Church. Even The Gospel of Jesus Christ was shown to Abraham, and he believed, and God counted it to him as righteousness. This is why Apostle Paul said those of Faith are the children of Abraham (Galatians 3; Romans 4).

There is NO SUCH THING as the "Church Ages" theory from John Darby, if that is what you're pointing to.

And YES, THE 1260 DAYS IS... SPECIFICALLY LIMITED TO THE VERY END OF THIS WORLD, JUST PRIOR TO CHRIST'S FUTURE COMING.

That is where you really... started LEAVING GOD'S WORD.


Isn't there anyone here left that actually keeps... God's written Word instead of going off into men's secularist religious philosophies outside of God's Holy Writ?
 

rwb

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At that point is when you started going off into 'men's doctrines', leaving the actual Scriptures.

Davy, I believe you should take a look in the mirror, because we consistently find those who accuse are typically guilty of what they accuse others of. I noticed your answer consists only of your opinion. The only verses you suggest may support your unbiblical doctrine has nothing to do with the discussion.

So let me end asking of you that which you asked of others only changing "anyone" to you specifically: "Isn't there ONE/YOU here left that actually keeps... God's written Word instead of going off into men's secularist religious philosophies outside of God's Holy Writ?"
 

Jay Ross

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That above is just CONFUSION.

Davy, that is just your opinion.

Yes, Titus is the leader of an army that was given to the Little Horn to trample God's Sanctuary in Jerusalem as well as to cause God's Earthly hosts to be scattered throughout the whole earth. It is the Little Horn that is referenced in Daniel 9:27 and not Titus as you are suggesting.

The confusion that is in your rebuttal to my post is the fact that you have covered up the activity of the Little Horn directing the army he is given, and he has been given many armies over the course of the Daniel 8:9-14 2,300 years of this prophecy and its completion is in our near future when the Isaiah 24:21-22 prophecy occurs at the time of the gathering of the Kings of the earth at Armageddon. In the Book of Revelation, the Little Horn of the Book of Daniel is called the False Prophet and it is the False Prophet that initiates the solemn covenant mentioned in Daniel 9:27. The Little Horn/False Prophet is in league with Satan as are the Four Winds of Heaven, i.e., the actual beasts of Daniel 7, who are all heavenly hosts, i.e., rebelling Angels with Satan,

Satan, along with the Little Horn and the four beasts, are very good at hiding in plain sight in the scriptures, such that we have attribute their perverse activities against God to historical people who have been the face of their activity on the earth.

Hitler was one figurehead of a nation that the Little Horn influenced to trample God's Earthly Hosts during WW2 through the use of concentration camps where millions of Jews, God's earthly hosts, were murdered/killed. (Daniel 11:33). Sadly though, many commentators have relegated the Daniel 8:9-14 prophecy to our distant past, such that we are not able to see the present-day activity of trample God's earthly Hosts in the countries where they have been scattered.

Davy your rebuttal only tells the story that you want to present by omitting all of the facts that also surround these events.

Shalom
 

Davy

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Davy, that is just your opinion.

Yes, Titus is the leader of an army that was given to the Little Horn to trample God's Sanctuary in Jerusalem as well as to cause God's Earthly hosts to be scattered throughout the whole earth. It is the Little Horn that is referenced in Daniel 9:27 and not Titus as you are suggesting.

The confusion that is in your rebuttal to my post is the fact that you have covered up the activity of the Little Horn directing the army he is given, and he has been given many armies over the course of the Daniel 8:9-14 2,300 years of this prophecy and its completion is in our near future when the Isaiah 24:21-22 prophecy occurs at the time of the gathering of the Kings of the earth at Armageddon. In the Book of Revelation, the Little Horn of the Book of Daniel is called the False Prophet and it is the False Prophet that initiates the solemn covenant mentioned in Daniel 9:27. The Little Horn/False Prophet is in league with Satan as are the Four Winds of Heaven, i.e., the actual beasts of Daniel 7, who are all heavenly hosts, i.e., rebelling Angels with Satan,

Satan, along with the Little Horn and the four beasts, are very good at hiding in plain sight in the scriptures, such that we have attribute their perverse activities against God to historical people who have been the face of their activity on the earth.

Hitler was one figurehead of a nation that the Little Horn influenced to trample God's Earthly Hosts during WW2 through the use of concentration camps where millions of Jews, God's earthly hosts, were murdered/killed. (Daniel 11:33). Sadly though, many commentators have relegated the Daniel 8:9-14 prophecy to our distant past, such that we are not able to see the present-day activity of trample God's earthly Hosts in the countries where they have been scattered.

Davy your rebuttal only:27 tells the story that you want to present by omitting all of the facts that also surround these events.

Shalom
NOPE. What I showed past that first statement about your confusion, is PER BIBLE SCRIPTURE, and A STRICT FOLLOWING OF THE DANIEL SCRIPTURE.

The Daniel 9:27 verse is about the FINAL 70TH WEEK that is still expecting today. And it is about the FINAL ANTICHRIST PROPHESIED TO APPEAR IN JERUSALEM TO SETUP THE "ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION" IDOL IN A TEMPLE THERE.
 

Jay Ross

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NOPE. What I showed past that first statement about your confusion, is PER BIBLE SCRIPTURE, and A STRICT FOLLOWING OF THE DANIEL SCRIPTURE.

The Daniel 9:27 verse is about the FINAL 70TH WEEK that is still expecting today. And it is about the FINAL ANTICHRIST PROPHESIED TO APPEAR IN JERUSALEM TO SETUP THE "ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION" IDOL IN A TEMPLE THERE.

And that is just your opinion, as I stated. You are looking for a man to be the Antichrist, whereas I am not looking for a man to be the Antichrist as I already know from Scripture that the "He" in Daniel 9:27 is the Little Horn/False Prophet who are described by Paul as wicked fallen heavenly hosts.

Who should we believe, you or the scriptures?
 

Davy

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And that is just your opinion, as I stated.
NOPE. What I said is actual Bible Scripture AS WRITTEN. There are many... Bible Scripture correlations to show that the prophecy in Daniel 9:27 and Daniel 11:21-45 about the "vile person" is for the FINAL ANTICHRIST AT THE VERY END OF THIS WORLD.

So you are not disagreeing with me. You are disagreeing with God in His Word.

And IF... you really knew your Bible, you would realize that the word 'man' is ALSO APPLIED TO THE IMAGE WHICH THE ANGELS HAVE, INCLUDING SATAN. Reason is, because the image of man originates from GOD's Own Image likeness in Heaven (Genesis 1:26-27). But what do you care, your anti-Biblical deceptions only show you are AGAINST The Word of God.
 

Davy

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And that is just your opinion, as I stated. You are looking for a man to be the Antichrist, whereas I am not looking for a man to be the Antichrist as I already know from Scripture that the "He" in Daniel 9:27 is the Little Horn/False Prophet who are described by Paul as wicked fallen heavenly hosts.

Who should we believe, you or the scriptures?
Tell me, WHERE did Lord Jesus get the following prophecy in red?

Matt 24:15-21
15
When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21
For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
KJV
 

Jay Ross

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Davy, the abominations of Desolation are the wicked fallen heavenly hosts, who rise up out of the Bottomless pit at the end of the seventh age and they all go into the Lake of Fire. We are told that the beast and the False Prophet is captured by Christ and that he dispatches them into the Lake of Fire towards the very end of the Seventh Age in Rev 19, but in rev 20 we are not told who dispatches Satan into the Lake of Fire just before the final judgement of mankind takes place.

Oh well, we can tell a person once, twice or three times, but if that person will not listen or understand what he is being told, then it is up to God to reveal the truth to him.

Once again, we have arrived at the same impasse. Need we continue your farce.
 

Davy

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Can't answer my question huh?

Again... Question: where did Lord Jesus get the Matthew 24:15 prophecy that He quoted from the Book of Daniel? Where in the Book of Daniel?
 

rwb

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Can't answer my question huh?

Again... Question: where did Lord Jesus get the Matthew 24:15 prophecy that He quoted from the Book of Daniel? Where in the Book of Daniel?

How do you reconcile your opinions when reading in context the Olivet Discourse? The abomination spoken by Daniel the prophet, Christ connects to the preaching of the Gospel unto all nations.

Matthew 24:14-15 (KJV) And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
 

Davy

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How do you reconcile your opinions when reading in context the Olivet Discourse? The abomination spoken by Daniel the prophet, Christ connects to the preaching of the Gospel unto all nations.

Matthew 24:14-15 (KJV) And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
Do you... know the answer to my question above?
 

Davy

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Your claim that Satan is in heaven is 100% "False"!
OK, now I may have time for you. And FYI, just because someone doesn't respond to one your posts, have you considered that you might be on their IGNORE LIST? You have been on my IGNORE LIST FOR A WHILE NOW.

No, that Satan's abode of hell is IN... heaven is NOT false! Can you not READ?

Rev 12:7-8
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not;
neither was their place found any more in heaven.
KJV

So are you another one of those superstitious flesh-only-thinking type of persons? Sounds like you aren't even aware... that there is another dimension of existence other than this earthly material dimension!

In the Book of Job when Satan and his angels came to appear before God's Throne, WHERE DID THAT TAKE PLACE?? You actually think that happened ON EARTH in our earthly dimension???

Job 1:6-7
6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

7 And the LORD said unto Satan, "Whence comest thou?" Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, "From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it."
KJV


Questions about the above Scripture:
1. Where was God and Satan when Satan appeared before God there?
2. What dimension of existence were they in, this earthly one, or the heavenly one?
3. How is it that Satan was able to appear... before The LORD, if as you say, that Satan cannot be in heaven?
4. Do you think Satan was bound in the pit at the cross?

By the time of Job, Satan had already rebelled and fallen. Yet there he was, appearing before God in the heavenly dimension.
5. Where exactly do you think the pit of hell is located?
 
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