By your own declaration that we do nothing....Jesus has done everything for us. You see, you expose your thinking in this way.
Alive without the Law (Rom. 7:9)
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By your own declaration that we do nothing....Jesus has done everything for us. You see, you expose your thinking in this way.
I didn't say we do nothing. We have a salvation to walk in, to experience, to work out. But it is in the confines of the already secure salvation that has been obtained by Christ for us.
Let's say you live a ripe old age. And you have been a victorious Christian all your life, living the life of an overcomer. And then you die. At that point, do you believe you have obtained to all that you will be. Or, is there more?
Stranger
See you missed it all, it is finished, it was finished before it started, you live in this time, this little frame in the big picture, God lives outside time, time began when the world was created, and it has a beginning and an end, God saw the beginning before the end, that is why is says,,
1Co_1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
It is that men dont believe in what He has done that teh "church:", has no power, mind you mens religions have none anyway.
Salvation is conditional...not unconditional. There is a whole lot of if's in the bible. Do you deny that Paul said that just as the first people were called and rejected....so can we be? This calls for a serious and sober look at what we are doing with what we have been given. We will all be judged by our works....or what we have done with what we have been given. That is fair and righteous.
The security of salvation is in HIM...not us. So then we strive to enter and abide in Him who is our salvation. It is the same for eternal life...it is HIS life...not our own. It is never ours. But it is ours to walk in...by faith and faithfulness.
The race is always to the end. So if a person endures to the end....there is an everlasting salvation awaiting that person. A person who has walked in the salvation of Christ his whole life will not just be saved but will also be glorified....because the works are holy from the Lord.
The "more" we seek in this life is what Paul strived for...the full measure and stature of Christ. Not everyone in the kingdom is the same. There are many levels of proximity to God. It is like going to a stadium...some seats are very near the action...and there are also the nosebleed seats. We reap what we sow. If we sow little then we shall reap little. The mind of Christ is that the more we have received the more is expected of us. So there is never occasion to be settled about anything concerning God from us. We can easily deceive ourselves....as the Jews did before us....about a supposed salvation status that really stems from a lack of knowledge about our own motives...and the ways of God.
The preaching of the cross is not about the free goodies for spoiled children that many put their belief to....it is the giving up of one's life to be lived through Christ. No one these days wants to lose their lives for Christ....they want more and they want it for free.
Galatians 6:14 May I never boast except in the cross of our LORD Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.
Why do you ask me concerning a verse Paul gave but don't give where it is found?
Yes, to be judged by our works is fair. But the believers judgement of works pertains to his rewards. (1 Cor. 3:11-15) Not his eternal destiny. As far as it being righteous, righteousness really doesn't come into play unless you are trying to establish your own righteousness. And we do not want to be found in our own righteousness. (Phillipians 3:9) "And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:"
Of course the security of salvation is in Christ. And faith in Christ places one in Christ.
My question to you was once you die, as a believer have you obtained all that you will obtain from God. Will you never grow anymore in salvation? Will you never grow any more in knowledge of God? Will your relationship with God and Christ always be what it was when you left here?
As I said, there is a walk of salvation, there is a working out your salvation. But it is based on the finished salvation that Christ has secured on our behalf. Yes, your walk of salvation contains conditional elements. But your righteous standing before God does not.
Stranger
If you believe that then you don't believe we are each responsible for our own actions. A righteous person does righteous things. A person who is deceived does works of iniquity...not righteousness.
There is no pretend/positional righteousness given to a person who doesn't behave righteously. That is what you are confusing with your religious posturing. The gift of God is meant to walk in. A person who doesn't walk in what he is given does NOT have a righteous standing with God. The condition is always obedience. Otherwise ALL men are saved by Christ's death on the cross....regardless of beliefs or actions. Actions speak LOUDER than beliefs. But you would have beliefs put above actions.....which is gnostic of course.
We are as we do. If the work of God by the Spirit is not enough to transform us into saints or at least righteous people....then there's nothing for it. We will be rejected as any atheist...because our works are the same.
Find any biblical allusion that we will be judged by our beliefs rather than our actions...and then change your belief to a more biblical one. It isn't too late to learn the truth.
I gave you the reference for the 'biblical allusion' and of course you didn't include that. I guess because it was more 'wording of the Bible that fit my conclusion." You focus on one sentence in hopes of carrying your argument.
Your words mean nothing unless supported by Scripture. My words which are supported by Scripture, you ignore.
The work of God is always enough. It is you who are saying it is not enough. Don't be an oxymoron.
Stranger
No Kidding Knew that the day He said, "come". But we are not talking of those called, but those who need to be saved. Can you imagine God in His boat finds a man drowning, man cries out, "God save me". God reaches in the water pulls Him aboard, man all excited He is safe, Than later on he gets mad, so God says " sorry that is no good enough" than throws him back overboard. That is not God not is in Christs nature to do so, what was it written about terrifying people into reli8gion, well that is why, because religion says you can never be good enough... Well stuff religion, what has it to do with God anyway.
You must get with reality...God is very patient and saves us with no strings attached. BUT, after a time in the boat, while Jesus is still helping others...the once saved person does nothing to help others over many years but thinks only of himself. I would say that EVENTUALLY God would give his place to another who was useful in helping others. Read the bible without those rose coloured glasses on and try to be reasonable.
If a person can't be reasonable...then they themselves are in the way of truth.
What is this obsession with the very first step in salvation being the last? One does not win a race at the first step.
Well its like this
Act_27:25 Wherefore, sirs, be of good cheer: for I believe God, that it shall be even as it was told me.
Act 5:29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.
Act 5:39 But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God.
could of written much but so few believe..... thats why this forum is here and teh churches are filled with people,
but finally I am beginning to see myself through His eyes and not my own, and that makes the world of difference.
Galatians 5:22-23 tells us that there is no law that will condemn the person who is bearing / walking according to the fruit of the Spirit.
The righteousness of the law is fulfilled in those who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit, Romans 8:4.
Real righteousness does not come by the law, Galatians 2:21.
Now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed (attested to) by the law and the prophets. Romans 3:21.
In other words, the righteousness which is of God by faith, Philippians 3:9, is real righteousness according to the law (not by the law).
The law testifies that the righteousness which is of God by faith is real righteousness.
This means that if we walk according to the Spirit and by faith, we will be obedient to the law: I clarify this by saying that it is indirectly that we obey the law.
For we find that if we walk after the Spirit, there is no law that will condemn us in our behaviour, Galatians 5:22-23.
Therefore the law is still a gauge of whether we are in Christ or not.
If we are in Christ, then the love of the Lord is shed abroad in our hearts, Romans 5:5, and this love is not in word or in tongue only but in deed and in truth, 1 John 3:17-18. It is the fulfilling of the law, Romans 13:8-10, Galatians 5:14, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6.
If we do not live according to Christ's love then we are not dwelling in Him and He in us.
And if we do not live according to Christ's love, the law will condemn us as sinners.
It is those who live according to Christ's love who are not under the law, 1 Timothy 1:8-10, Romans 6:14.
God gives the Holy Spirit to those who obey Him, Acts of the Apostles 5:32.
If we have the Spirit, then we are not bound to the letter of the law; but we will walk according to the spirit of the law and will be obedient to it. Romans 7:6.
The righteousness of the law is fulfilled in those who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit, Romans 8:4.
Real righteousness does not come by the law, Galatians 2:21.
Now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed (attested to) by the law and the prophets. Romans 3:21.
In other words, the righteousness which is of God by faith, Philippians 3:9, is real righteousness according to the law (not by the law).
The law testifies that the righteousness which is of God by faith is real righteousness.
This means that if we walk according to the Spirit and by faith, we will be obedient to the law: I clarify this by saying that it is indirectly that we obey the law.
For we find that if we walk after the Spirit, there is no law that will condemn us in our behaviour, Galatians 5:22-23.
Therefore the law is still a gauge of whether we are in Christ or not.
If we are in Christ, then the love of the Lord is shed abroad in our hearts, Romans 5:5, and this love is not in word or in tongue only but in deed and in truth, 1 John 3:17-18. It is the fulfilling of the law, Romans 13:8-10, Galatians 5:14, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6.
If we do not live according to Christ's love then we are not dwelling in Him and He in us.
And if we do not live according to Christ's love, the law will condemn us as sinners.
It is those who live according to Christ's love who are not under the law, 1 Timothy 1:8-10, Romans 6:14.
God gives the Holy Spirit to those who obey Him, Acts of the Apostles 5:32.
If we have the Spirit, then we are not bound to the letter of the law; but we will walk according to the spirit of the law and will be obedient to it. Romans 7:6.
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