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Featured All cultures accepted...except the Southern.

Discussion in 'Current Events & Politics Forum' started by Stranger, Jul 13, 2019.

  1. "ByGrace"

    "ByGrace" Well-Known Member

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    This is probably off topic...if so ignore.
    But I remember reading once that Texas was actually a country because it never did sign something ( forgotten what)

    I also read ( maybe at the same time) that the province of Alberta ( Where I live) had also never signed some government thing...and it was just annex in, have you hear anything like that?
     
  2. aspen

    aspen “"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few

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    Umm...Boo.....hoo?

    Right.
     
  3. amadeus

    amadeus Well-Known Member

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    I don't blame the south. On the contrary it hurts me to see them removing statues and flags and monuments as they have been doing recently. My own family's history in this country was all in the south as well.

    I blame the ones who are picking on the south just as much. The war was unnecessary and unfortunate if inevitable. This has always been the way of men. Men on both sides pushed to get their own selfish ways. Probably then as now, few men really knew or cared about what was best for the nation. No one I would say, could have stopped it. Perhaps not many really tried... to stop it that is.

    If our only, or primary, interests were in this carnal world of men, probably I would be on your side with regard to preserving the monuments, but where I am now, what good would that do for anyone ultimately?

    As they were in 1860 both in the south and in elsewhere in this nation today people are claiming to be on God's side while being fully opposed to one another. I am not telling you or even recommending that you cease and desist. Rather I am asking you to consider what you expect to accomplish for either here or for any hereafter? I usually avoid this subject because I see nothing ahead but more bickering and politics and personal agendas with no good end no matter who wins... if anyone can. Like in the conflict with real physical war beginning in 1860 most, if not all, today people south and north and east and west would be losers as they were that first time. What side should we be on other than the Lord's?

    The only real hope I see for anyone is in trusting God no matter what happens in the natural setting.

    No, I don't ask you for silence, but consider the reality of the situation. For what it is worth as I have said I agree with you on your stand against removal of monuments but I don't believe it can be stopped now.

    For me as I have often told my wife, I am glad we are as old as we are. This means we are less likely to be found in the heat of the worst case scenarios. Already I am too old and weak physically to do much even if that were my way. It never has been, however, been my way as I know it is yours. My focal point on God has sharpened with the years. That is where the only real hope lies... but that hope is not for this world of men nor for these United States nor even to preserve untarnished any good within the heritage of our families.

    Your anger is understood for the tyranny was there and is here. Understanding that does not help a thing does it, insofar as what is actually happening today to our society? Not only those in the south but everywhere are suffering or will be suffering the consequences, sooner or later.

    Apparently you derive some satisfaction and find some hope by continuing your side of the fight but for me that is a hopeless fight because there are no easily and clearly discernible good guys and bad guys, are there?

    Again I am not telling you or the south to be "good little Christians". What you need to do is realize the futility of your battle. Even most bearing the label "Christian" including many southerners, as I am sure your already know, are, or will be, against you. Your opposition may very wrong, but that does not mean you are right.

    Am I right to take my stand with God alone? If I did not believe it I would not be where I am, but I speak here also to hopefully make some who read this thread recognize that there really is a lot of truth in what you have said. Still I cannot and do not stand on your side. Hopefully that does not make me your enemy.
    I do even see the parallel to a certain extent with the Jews of WWII. America is much like Nazi Germany already and I believe they are getting even closer, but there are some differences. One is that the assassination of Hitler at the proper moment would probably have saved a great many lives. There is no one person now whose death would make that much difference in what is happening here. I believe that if God allows it for so long the same or worse than Nazi Germany will happen here.

    You are focused on the people of the South and their persecution. Your focus is too narrow. I see the whole nation and even the whole world in jeopardy. Only God could make a difference, but He will not... unless the conditions of this verse could be met:

    "If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land." II Chron 7:14

    I am praying for this nation and the world, but I don't expect to see such a general humbling even by the so-called Christians. As with Sodom and Gomorrah there simply are not enough people who really would be willing to so humble themselves.

    Neither do I see your stand as being correct. It is like the King of Judah and the other leaders of Israel refusing to believe the prophets of God when warned about Nebuchadnezzar and the forces of Babylon. The only way is God's Way, but you must do what you must do...
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2019
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  4. amadeus

    amadeus Well-Known Member

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    Texas was a part of Mexico until they won a war against Mexico for Independence. They were an independent nation until some years later [dates not recalled] they became one of the states in the United States some time prior the Civil War. In that war they were with the Confederacy [the South].
     
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  5. Stranger

    Stranger Well-Known Member

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    Yes, Texas was a country before it became a state. So, legally, you cannot fly the U.S. Flag above the Texas flag. They are to be at the same height. But of course the yankified carpetbaggers here today abuse it. But in the state and federal places located in Texas, you will not find the Texas flag below the Federal. We are the only state where that can be observed.

    Stranger
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2019
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  6. JohnPaul

    JohnPaul Well-Known Member

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    I was angry when I called your flag a false flag, of course it isn’t.
     
  7. JohnPaul

    JohnPaul Well-Known Member

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    I hope I didn’t insult you I was angry when I made those comments, I shall ask God for forgiveness and in helping me deal with my anger, my apologies to anyone on here from the South.
     
  8. Stranger

    Stranger Well-Known Member

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    I understand you are not an enemy of the South. But I also understand that you are not a friend either. Which is fine. You act as you believe the Lord leads you.

    Has the Lord ever done anything, nation wise, where men were not involved in the task? Has He ever saved anyone where men were not involved in the task? Yes, the only way is God's way but God still uses men to do 'His way'.

    So, if I see someone being wronged, I should just pass on by and convince myself that God will take care of that when He is ready?

    I do not see how you can compare me with believing the false prophets of Judah, when it is a Christian people I am supporting. Are you saying the atheistic government which comes against my Christian people is who I should support? Are you saying the Bible believing South are the enemy of the good atheistic government which constantly comes against us? Remember this atheistic government is contrary to what it was originally set up to be. What is wrong with this picture?

    Just because the picture may appear hopeless is immaterial. We don't fight because we are always victorious. It is the very nature of war to fight and lose and win and lose and fight again and again. We fight, whether in spirit or flesh, because it is the right thing to do. When a woman is being attacked by three men and there is only one of you, what do you do. You jump in to help, even though you can't win. Why? Cause it is the right thing to do.

    You act like (2 Chron. 7:14) is talking to the Bible Belt Christians. We do seek His face. You can't just pray for some to be saved and refuse to witness to them. You can't pray for your country and refuse to put forth some effort to that prayer.

    Stranger
     
  9. amadeus

    amadeus Well-Known Member

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    No insult received here, my friend! I don't take offense as easily as that.

    You should, however, be careful about simply repeating what some teacher or textbook has listed as the reasons for the war. Remember that the South lost that war and the losers are not often quoted in textbooks written under the jurisdiction of the winners. [This is true just about anyplace where one group defeated another in a conflict.]

    The South certainly had its faults, but don't think that the war was a one-sided thing where the Union [The United States] was a completely innocent participant. I went to school from first grade through my BA in California. I never attended a school anywhere in the south even though I was born in Oklahoma and my great or great great grandfathers all fought on the side of the Confederacy. My mother, who did grow up in Oklahoma, always reminded me of that so I was always watchful for the other side of the story [from that which is initiated by northerners or their sympathizers].


    I am not where @Stranger is on this, but I don't believe that he ever purposely stretches or twists the truth.

    Give God the glory!
     
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  10. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    Did the South make use of the 10th amendment? It seems that if the South had not attacked Fort Sumter and tried to work things out peacefully, there might have been a different outcome (according to others).
     
  11. amadeus

    amadeus Well-Known Member

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    We are clear at least on these points.

    I agree completely with what you have said. He is using me in another way. I am an old man and must use the energy and time remaining to me according to the way I see Him leading me... even though it apparently is in conflict with the way you see. Am I right while you are wrong? That is not for me to judge, so I try not to...

    No, you must do what you believe is right as must I. On many things in this regard we would likely agree but obviously not on everything. I really do take action in the things God brings to my attention. How well are each of us hearing God? Don't even try to answer that question. I certainly won't.

    I did not intend to offend. My point was simply that sometimes God does not want people to oppose the oppressors or would be oppressors when they decide to do it. God's time rather than our own. I cannot know what God has spoken to your heart.

    I probably see as much wrong with the government as you. I would like to see things improve in the way these United States are governed, but we both know that that is very unlikely.

    I do agree with what you have said, it's just that I see the application for you in specific situations differing from the application for me. In the case of the woman in your example, probably not, but we each have our own calling. I won't second guess you in yours.

    For you yourself I can believe that, but do all of those others do that as you do? Some certainly, but it is hard to see that when so many devilish things go on all around us. I do live in Oklahoma now and continuously since 1987. Too many people here appear to me to be NOT on the Lord's side. Maybe I should give more people the benefit of better possibilities???
    I do agree.
     
  12. FHII

    FHII Well-Known Member

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    Wow! What a powder keg this conversation is! Let me start by saying I was born in New Haven, CT. Not much more "Yankee" than that! But I spent many years in the south... Louisiana, Florida, Tennessee, Virginia... Currently living in Maryland which would've been southern territory. Heck, I'm a grad of Middle Tennessee State!

    So despite my Northern birth, I consider myself more southern or Midwestern (also lived in Ohio, Michigan, Wisconsin and Illinois). And I prefer southern and Midwestern culture.

    That's all backdrop info...

    That's a bit harsh. There is no genocide of Southerners. A "genocide" of the Confederacy, yes. And I understand the importance of the Confederacy to southern white culture. But it isn't the defining message of all southern culture. Not even of white Southerners


    Is it his ignorance? So what is the truth? Cruz, right or wrong, is in line with what is taught as history.

    I have heard that Forrest was misunderstood. Haven't read it myself enough to make a reasonable opinion. I don't have much time to read, but love reading.... Sorry, but this isn't high on my reading list. Not because it isn't a worthy subject, just that I haven't the time.

    There are so many things that are misunderstood about the war and the era. I don't know them all. But I am aware of them. But hatred to the North is not going to help.

    The South has a fine culture! Unfortunately, slavery wasn't it's better points. It was a dark spot and a large one at that. The Union was not great either at the time in terms of how they treated the situation. Grant's words sounded good, but there were atrocities committed

    That's war, my friend. It's not good.
     
  13. Stranger

    Stranger Well-Known Member

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    I really don't think you know much about what took place in the War between the States. And I really don't expect you to, as most Americans don't know anymore, if they ever did. And you being from Canada it is doubtful you have made it a priority to study.

    Concerning Sumter, the South was in the process of negotiating the surrender of the forts. A peaceful process. Many had already been turned over. Once the negotiations began, then there must not be any troop movement toward the fort or any movement of the garrison in the fort. The fort in question was Fort Moultrie, not Sumter. Sumter had been abandoned long ago and was in disarray. But while the negotiations were taking place the garrison in Moultrie retreated to Fort Sumter as it would be easier to defend. That was a breach of the negotiations. Later a ship was being sent to Sumter to reinforce it. That was a breach of negotiations.

    The Fed. govt. was clear that it was going to either reinforce or force the attack by the South. Once this was clear, then South Carolina could not let the garrison be reinforced. It is like watching your enemy build up his force in your back yard.

    Concerning the 10th amendment, it reads: "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

    All powers not delegated to the U.S. belong to the States. It doesn't say, 'surrendered'. It says 'delegated'. What is delegated can be taken back.

    So, yes, the South was exercising the 10th amendment as it was taking back the powers it delegated to the U.S.

    Stranger
     
  14. Stranger

    Stranger Well-Known Member

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    You say Cruz is in line with history. What history? The South had slaves. Forrest was a Confederate General. Forrest was leader of the KKK. That is it. Boy that is deep stuff. Therefore the South is evil. Forrest is evil. KKK is evil. And the governor of Tennessee now must be evil. That is the depth of yankee politically correct history.

    It doesn't address the complex slave question. It doesn't address the complex KKK question at that time. It doesn't address the reasons the Confederacy was formed.

    Stranger
     
  15. FHII

    FHII Well-Known Member

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    No, I didn't. Go back and read what I said.
     
  16. JohnPaul

    JohnPaul Well-Known Member

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    Thank you Amadeus, for the record, I didn’t like it when they started removing the Confederate Statues, that should’ve never been done.
     
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  17. Stranger

    Stranger Well-Known Member

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    Big deal. Cruz is in line with what is taught as history. Now go back and reread post #(54). It applies the same.

    Stranger
     
  18. Stranger

    Stranger Well-Known Member

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    Do to age of course our contribution or work will be different. I always remember the old saying, "The pen is mightier than the sword". And it is a true saying. Believe me, the politicians know it. Fake news didn't start just a couple of years ago. It has been around a long time.

    Our country is built today on the lies that have been told abut the War between the States. It is not built on the work of our Revolutionary war. It is built on lies told about Lincoln. It is not built on George Washington. Lincoln has become the father of our country. Not Washington.

    How do you oppose it. First and foremost through the pen. Correcting the error when you can. There is nothing anti-Christian about being correct in your history. And people move and are affected by what they 'believe' to be true. May as well make sure that what they believe is true.

    You are older than I but not much. I remember as a young man, who was not yet knowledgeable in history, but having to address these attacks upon the South which were coming from all directions, coming to a decision. I told myself, everyone is saying we are so wrong. So evil. I need to accept the fact that maybe that was true. I need to look into it myself, study it. And find out if that is so. And if it is so, then admit it, acknowledge that they are right, and we were wrong, and forget it.

    That is how I went into the study of the War Between the States. Both the North and South have their historians and will both be biased of course. I studied both sides. You then try and view the war as seen from Europe's eyes. See what they say of it. All the while remembering what a history teacher told us once. "Everyone is entitled to their opinion. But no one is entitled to be wrong in the facts."

    My conclusion, which you know now of course, is that we, the South, were much more right than I ever thought. And the North was much more wrong and manipulative then I ever dreamed. And the country today is going in the direction it is due to the North having won that war. That includes the Spiritual decline.

    Stranger
     
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  19. FHII

    FHII Well-Known Member

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    I'll take a pass on that. I wasn't impressed the first time.
     
  20. Stranger

    Stranger Well-Known Member

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    I have noticed that people like to say, 'I was not impressed' when they really have nothing to say. Whether you are impressed or not means nothing...other than you have nothing to add.

    Stranger
     
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