All Israel will be saved

[Heb 13:8]

You ever wonder why all the commentaries on Biblehub agree with past fulfillment? It's because they weren't deceived by 20th century futurism.

Adam Clarke (1760 or 1762 – 1832)
Barton W. Johnson (Born 1833)
John Gill (November 23, 1697-October 14, 1771)
Joseph Benson (Born 1748)
Matthew Poole (1624 – 1679)
Thomas Coke (9 September 1747 – 2 May 1814)

 

[n2thelight]

No. Israel is Israel.
​And it is an exception to the rule where a nation has been lifted up from the ash heap of history to fulfill prophecy still to come.
​America, Russia, and the European Union will all unite into the fourth terrible beast, the Kingdom of the North - literally the northern half of the northern hemisphere - in my opinion.
​And our problems are not conflicting eschatological views, nor the people who spout all kinds of inane theories, but against evil.

For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places. ~ Eph 6:12.

Again you are wrong,America(Israel) will not attack the nation state of Israel,Russia will attack America(Israel)and God will fight that battle....

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

You ever wonder why all the commentaries on Biblehub agree with past fulfillment? It's because they weren't deceived by 20th century futurism.

Adam Clarke (1760 or 1762 – 1832)
Barton W. Johnson (Born 1833)
John Gill (November 23, 1697-October 14, 1771)
Joseph Benson (Born 1748)
Matthew Poole (1624 – 1679)
Thomas Coke (9 September 1747 – 2 May 1814)

Funny too: None of them saw the re-birth of Israel in 1947.

They were deceived by over a thousand years of figurative interpretation which thought the Kingdom of God had arrived with the Holy Roman Catholic Church and prophecy concerning Israel was all in the past - where they thought they had buried the nation of Israel.

 

[keras]

Funny too: None of them saw the re-birth of Israel in 1947.

They were deceived by over a thousand years of figurative interpretation which thought the Kingdom of God had arrived with the Holy Roman Catholic Church and prophecy concerning Israel was all in the past - where they thought they had buried the nation of Israel.

We DO agree on some things, Marcus.

Here is my latest proof of true Christians being the Israel of God;

[SIZE=medium]The Parable of the Landowner[/SIZE][SIZE=medium]: Ethnic Israel replaced by the Church/Christians:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium] Matthew 21:33-46 [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]Listen to another parable. There was a landowner who planted a vineyard and put a wall around it, built a watchtower and rented it out to vine-growers then went on a journey. When the harvest time approached, he sent his slaves to the vine-growers to receive his produce. The vine-growers took his slaves and beat one, and killed another, and stoned a third. Again he sent another group of slaves larger than the first; and they did the same thing to them. But afterward he sent his son to them, saying, 'They will respect my son.' But when the vine-growers saw the son, they said among themselves, 'This is the heir; come, let us kill him and seize his inheritance.' They took him, and threw him out of the vineyard and killed him. Therefore when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those vine-growers? They said to Him, "He will bring those wretches to a wretched end, and will rent out the vineyard to other vine-growers who will pay him the proceeds at the proper seasons. Jesus said to them: Did you never read in the Scriptures; The Stone that the builders rejected has become the cornerstone. This is the Lord’s doing and it is amazing to us. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Therefore I say to you, [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]the Kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people, who will produce the fruit of it. [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]And he who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces; but on whomever it falls, it will scatter him like dust. When the chief priests and the Pharisees heard His parables, they understood that He was speaking about them. When they sought to seize Him, they feared the people, because they considered Him to be a prophet.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium] In this perfectly clear parable, paralleled by Isaiah 5:1-7, Jesus prophesied that the Jews, as a nation, were going to be replaced by something new; faithful Christians who do what they can to spread the Gospel and fulfilling their appointed tasks. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]"[/SIZE][SIZE=medium]He will bring those wretches to a wretched end[/SIZE][SIZE=medium]" did happen in 70 AD. But the Jewish nation still rejects Jesus and they face another judgement. Isaiah 6:11-13[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]The entire leadership of the apostolic church and most of the Elders in the churches were Jewish. They became Christians who stopped keeping the Sabbath and abandoned the Mosaic system of Judaism. They began worshipping God on their seventh day of the working week, the Lord's day. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Jesus went to the Jews first but they rejected Him as the Messiah. The Kingdom is now open to both Jew and Gentile equally. Everyone must believe, repent, confess Jesus as Lord and be baptized for the remission of their sins. There is only one way to get saved! Jews have no special route to heaven that gentiles do not have. They all must believe and become true Christian believers to be saved.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Paul always began his evangelism in a new city by preaching in the Jewish synagogues. When the Jews rejected the gospel, he turned to the gentiles: [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]But when the Jews saw the crowds, they were filled with jealousy and began contradicting the things spoken by Paul, and were blaspheming. Paul and Barnabas spoke out boldly and said: It was necessary that the word of God be spoken to you first; but[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] since you Jews repudiate it and judge yourselves unworthy of eternal life[/SIZE][SIZE=medium], behold, we are turning to the Gentiles[/SIZE][SIZE=medium]. Acts 13:45-46[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]1 Peter 2:7-10 [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]So for you who have faith, the Cornerstone [Jesus] is of great value, but for the faithless it is a stone they trip over. They trip and fall because they refuse to believe the Word and [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]this is the fate appointed for them.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]But you Christians are now the chosen race[/SIZE][SIZE=medium], a royal priesthood, a dedicated people, a nation claimed by God for His own. We are called out of darkness into His glorious Light. [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]Once Christians were not a people, now you are God’s people[/SIZE][SIZE=medium]…..[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Notice that the; [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]you are a chosen, holy nation of priests[/SIZE][SIZE=medium], that was originally applied to ethnic Israel at the foot of Mt. Sinai, [/SIZE] [SIZE=medium]Exodus 19:6, is now applied to Christians to the exclusion of ethnic Israel, unless they too, become Christian.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]The fate appointed for them.[/SIZE] [SIZE=medium]Jeremiah 12:14 has the clearest prophecy of God’s intentions for the apostate Jewish State of Israel.: [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]…I shall uproot the evil neighbours from My Land and [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]also Judah as well.[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] But if they learn the ways of My Christian people, their families will join My people there[/SIZE][SIZE=medium]. [/SIZE]

 

[Heb 13:8]

Funny too: None of them saw the re-birth of Israel in 1947.

They were deceived by over a thousand years of figurative interpretation which thought the Kingdom of God had arrived with the Holy Roman Catholic Church and prophecy concerning Israel was all in the past - where they thought they had buried the nation of Israel.

Funny too: How everyone cannot answer post 196, and also post 1 and 6 here if you're claiming 70th week as future..http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/23337-70-weeks-1000-years/

Many unanswered questions to take futurism seriously.

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

Here is my latest proof of true Christians being the Israel of God;

That's no proof.

The fullness of the Gentiles must come in before the partial hardening of the Jews is over.

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

Many unanswered questions to take futurism seriously.

To many irregularities to take Preterism seriously at all. It is the weakest eschatology of all.

 

[Heb 13:8]

To many irregularities to take Preterism seriously at all. It is the weakest eschatology of all.

That's because you've already made up your mind, despite the evidence of Greek text. You gave me my answer. Thank you.

 

[Heb 13:8]

To change my mind, answer post 196 here, and post 1 and 6 from other thread. But you can't do it, because you have no answer.

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

That's because you've already made up your mind, despite the evidence of Greek text. You gave me my answer. Thank you.

Despite the word: age? You listed them as:

1. The Pre-Adamic Age
2. The Adamic Age
3. The Age of Israel under the Old Mosaic Covenant of the Law
4. The Age of the Church under the New Covenant of Grace
5. The Millennial Age of the Kingdom of God
6. The Lake of Fire Judgement Age
7. The Eternal Age of the Kingdom of God

This could be the Church Age, which you do list and I use in other cases, and then there is the Rule of Man Age too, which might be the Disciples' question.

All aiōn says is: period of time, age in this context. Jesus does not specify which age is the relevant age. That must be understood by the reader in this case because Matthew did not specify it either.

 

[Heb 13:8]

Despite the word: age? You listed them as:


This could be the Church Age, which you do list and I use in other cases, and then there is the Rule of Man Age too, which might be the Disciples' question.

All aiōn says is: period of time, age in this context. Jesus does not specify which age is the relevant age. That must be understood by the reader in this case because Matthew did not specify it either.

Well, the actual translation in Matt 24:3 is "completion of the age". Considering that Jesus hadn't died yet I would think it's #3, The Age of Israel under the Old Mosaic Covenant of the Law, thus the completion of the Mosaic age.

Messiah’s purpose in this discourse was not at all to give His people signs of His coming again, but to warn that generation of believers of the approaching destruction of Jerusalem, and to give to them a sure sign whereby they might, and whereby in fact His own people did, secure their safety by fleeing the land and city.

“thy coming” refers to “these things”, the destruction of the temple; not Messiah. They were asking what is the sign of the things that he just proclaimed about the temple being desolated.

The NIV/ESV/NKJ incorrectly say “what will be the sign of your coming”, making it seem like Messiah’s 2nd coming.

The Greek word for coming is parousia; from the present participle of 3918; a being near, i.e. advent (often, return; specially, of Christ to punish Jerusalem, or finally the wicked); (by implication) physically, aspect:—coming, presence.

Messiah was surely present during the desolation of the temple, city and Jews; not in the sense of His return to earth, but that He commanded it and oversaw it.

 

[Heb 13:8]

Marcus:

I have a good question. If people are still dying inside the 1,000 years then wouldn't transgression, sin and wickedness still exist. If that's so then these things below will not be fulfilled at the end of the 70th week. Therefore the 70 weeks of Daniel has passed.

Dan 9:24 "Seventy 'sevens' are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the Most Holy Place.

Isa 65:20 "Never again will there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not live out his years; the one who dies at a hundred will be thought a mere child; the one who fails to reach a hundred will be considered accursed.

Marcus:

What I believe is that the 70 weeks have passed and the abomination of desolation spoken of in Dan 9:27 is about Titus the prince.

If what others are saying is true, and fulfillment of Dan 9:24 comes to a close at the end of the 70th week, then why does scripture say the curse will be lifted after the millennium and not before..

Isa 65:20 "Never again will there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not live out his years; the one who dies at a hundred will be thought a mere child; the one who fails to reach a hundred will be considered accursed.

Rev 22:3 No longer will there be any curse. The throne of God and of the Lamb will be in the city, and his servants will serve him.

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

Well, the actual translation in Matt 24:3 is "completion of the age". Considering that Jesus hadn't died yet I would think it's #3, The Age of Israel under the Old Mosaic Covenant of the Law, thus the completion of the Mosaic age.

Well you think that. And that then forms the basis for your belief. Which bring up an old adage: "Don't believe everything you think."

But the question you have to ask yourself is what did the Disciple's think? Could they possibly be questioning when the Messiah King was going to destroy the Rule of Man as per the dream Nebuchadnezzar had in Daniel 2?

They pointedly asked: When are You coming again?

And the Mosaic Age did not end with the destruction of the Temple. It ended with Christ's atoning sacrifice, which made animal sacrifice moot. Thus begins the Church Age, and the only way to the Father is through the Son.

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

I have a good question. If people are still dying inside the 1,000 years then wouldn't transgression, sin and wickedness still exist.

They exist now but Jesus put an end to them through the Cross.

Transgression? It is finished. He has restored the way to the Father which was cut off.
​Sin? Not remembered. We are proclaimed not guilty - not proclaimed innocent.
Wickedness? Atoned. He paid the price in full.

The realization of these first three of six were accomplished by Jesus on the Cross.
​The realization of the last three of six will be accomplished by Jesus in the Millennium.

There are three times Jesus can be said to have "saved" us.

1. When He paid a ransom for many.
2. When we first believe.
3. ​When He gathers us up.

What is important about death in the Millennium is that this describes mortal people - not us who will inhabit a new mansion of an immortal and imperishable body.

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

What I believe is that the 70 weeks have passed and the abomination of desolation spoken of in Dan 9:27 is about Titus the prince.

Titus erected no idol inside the Temple.

No desolation of God's was poured out on him three and a half years later.

This is why I hold Preterism with such contempt: it attempts to make up fact out of mere supposition.

Titus fulfills Daniel 9:26 and thus points to the source people for the future prince: the anti-Christ.

 

[Heb 13:8]

They pointedly asked: When are You coming again?

No they didn't. The word again is not mentioned.

Well you think that. And that then forms the basis for your belief. Which bring up an old adage: "Don't believe everything you think."

Notice that the other two recordings of the Olivet Discourse do not include the question about the end of the world:

Matt 24:3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. "Tell us,"when these things will be (Greek), and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?"

Mark 13:4, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled?

Luke 21:7, And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?

The realization of these first three of six were accomplished by Jesus on the Cross.
​The realization of the last three of six will be accomplished by Jesus in the Millennium.

Grasping at straws? If it's accomplished in the Mill, then why is the curse only lifted after the Mill.

Titus erected no idol inside the Temple.

No desolation of God's was poured out on him three and a half years later.

This is why I hold Preterism with such contempt: it attempts to make up fact out of mere supposition.

Titus fulfills Daniel 9:26 and thus points to the source people for the future prince: the anti-Christ.

You ignored that post. Why the curse is lifted after the 1000 years and not before.

And the Mosaic Age did not end with the destruction of the Temple. It ended with Christ's atoning sacrifice, which made animal sacrifice moot. Thus begins the Church Age, and the only way to the Father is through the Son.

Why would Jesus add His death to the list of "these things". Even Peter rebuked Him Matt 16:22.

 

[Heb 13:8]

But the question you have to ask yourself is what did the Disciple's think? Could they possibly be questioning when the Messiah King was going to destroy the Rule of Man as per the dream Nebuchadnezzar had in Daniel 2?

http://revelationtimelinedecoded.com/the-beast-kingdoms-of-daniel-2-and-daniel-7/

 

[Heb 13:8]

The realization of these first three of six were accomplished by Jesus on the Cross.
​The realization of the last three of six will be accomplished by Jesus in the Millennium.

Underline: "To seal up the vision" in Dan 9:24 includes all six tasks. The vision is the 70 weeks.

Dan 9:21-23 while I was still in prayer, Gabriel, the man I had seen in the earlier vision, came to me in swift flight about the time of the evening sacrifice. 22He instructed me and said to me, “Daniel, I have now come to give you insight and understanding. 23As soon as you began to pray, a word went out, which I have come to tell you, for you are highly esteemed. Therefore, consider the word and understand the vision:

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

I said:
"They said, 'when are you coming again'"
​And you said.

No they didn't. The word again is not mentioned.

They said:
what will be the sign of Your coming?

So you know what I meant - and what Jesus answers is then He will come again, and along with it, gives general information about the "end".

So quibbling aside, I was not wrong because despite my initial wording being off, you knew exactly what I meant.

I do not think it is the end of the Mosaic Age, but the Church Age.

 

[Heb 13:8]

I said:
"They said, 'when are you coming again'"
​And you said.



They said:
what will be the sign of Your coming?

So you know what I meant - and what Jesus answers is then He will come again, and along with it, gives general information about the "end".

So quibbling aside, I was not wrong because despite my initial wording being off, you knew exactly what I meant.

I do not think it is the end of the Mosaic Age, but the Church Age.

What scripture are you referring to where it says "when are you coming again"? Matt 24:3 Greek says the end of the age, not the end of the world.