All Israel will be saved

[Heb 13:8]

Only a remnant of Judah will be saved. Isaiah 22:14, Zechariah 13:8-9, Amos 2:4-5 and many other prophesies.

It is all true Christians who will re-inhabit the holy Land, the Messainic Jewish survivors will join them. Jeremiah 12:14

Underline: and once the body of Christ is raptured, they will return with Jesus on the mount of olives to meet the remnant..

Rev 19:1 After this I heard what sounded like the roar of a great multitude in heaven shouting: “Hallelujah! Salvation and glory and power belong to our God,

Rev 19:11 I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and wages war.

Rev 19:14 The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean.

Rev 19:19 Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to wage war against the rider on the horse and his army.

 

[keras]

Until someone presents a scripture saying: God will take His people up to heaven, or a very similar verse, then I will continue to call the rapture theory a Satanic lie.

Rev 19:1, I have already posted that this refers to the souls of the martyrs. They are allowed to cry out at times. Note: it sounded like.... not actual people there.

Rev 19:11-19 The Return of Jesus accompanied by the armies of heaven, who destroy the armies of the kings of the earth and chain up the beast.
If you were trying to prove a rapture to heaven anywhere there, then you have failed miserably.

 

[Heb 13:8]

Until someone presents a scripture saying: God will take His people up to heaven, or a very similar verse, then I will continue to call the rapture theory a Satanic lie.

Rev 19:1, I have already posted that this refers to the souls of the martyrs. They are allowed to cry out at times. Note: it sounded like.... not actual people there.

Rev 19:11-19 The Return of Jesus accompanied by the armies of heaven, who destroy the armies of the kings of the earth and chain up the beast.
If you were trying to prove a rapture to heaven anywhere there, then you have failed miserably.

Rev 19:1 - Where in scripture does it say martyrs exist in heaven right now without their bodies? The Greek translation for spirit is wind. How does wind have a tongue?

Rev 19:11-19 - Both the armies of heaven and the great multitude are the body of Christ coming down from heaven with Jesus and landing on the mount of olives.

Underline:

2 Cor 10:3-5 For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does. 4The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. 5We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.

Eph 6 The Armor of God
10Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. 11Put on the full armor of God, so that you can take your stand against the devil’s schemes. 12For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. 13Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. 14Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, 15and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. 16In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. 17Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.

 

[n2thelight]

Rev 19:1 - Where in scripture does it say martyrs exist in heaven right now without their bodies? The Greek translation for spirit is wind. How does wind have a tongue?

Why is it people think the spirit dos'nt have a body?We have the same bodies as the angels have,it's just not a flesh one...

 

[Heb 13:8]

Why is it people think the spirit dos'nt have a body?We have the same bodies as the angels have,it's just not a flesh one...

Right, with no scripture to back up opinion.

 

[n2thelight]

Right, with no scripture to back up opinion.

Common sense to me....So do tell,what kind of bodies do angels have?

 

[Dcopymope]

Common sense to me....So do tell,what kind of bodies do angels have?

If angels had the same type of bodies that we have, then that would make them subject to the first death of the flesh like we are. While they can manifest in the body of a human, they were created as pure spirit beings, so they are not bound to the flesh like we are. Flesh and bone cannot enter into heaven, but they can as spirits, this is why they can go to and from heaven as they please. This is also why the curse of death does not apply to angels, which is why it states that when we get our glorified bodies on the day of the lord, we will no longer have a need to marry and procreate because we will be immortal like the angels in heaven. But as of right now, we are not. Just like the first Adam was made lower than the angels in heaven, who before the fall was crowned with glory as the image bearer of God and given dominion over creation, so to was Jesus, the second Adam made lower than the angels and crowned with glory over all things seen and unseen in his resurrection.

 

[keras]

Heb 13 said: Rev 19:1 - Where in scripture does it say martyrs exist in heaven right now without their bodies? The Greek translation for spirit is wind. How does wind have a tongue?

They are the souls of the martyrs kept under the Altar. Rev 6:9-11

Heb 13 said: Rev 19:11-19 - Both the armies of heaven and the great multitude are the body of Christ coming down from heaven with Jesus and landing on the mount of olives.

Matthew 24:30-31, Mark 13:26 and Jude 1:14 all say He comes with His angels and Rev 19:14; the armies of heaven. You have been fooled by the rapture teachers into making scripture say something it plainly does not.
Time for you to have a reality check, before its too late and the Lord asks you why you didn't believe what was written and followed fables and fairy tales.

 

[n2thelight]

If angels had the same type of bodies that we have, then that would make them subject to the first death of the flesh like we are. While they can manifest in the body of a human, they were created as pure spirit beings, so they are not bound to the flesh like we are. Flesh and bone cannot enter into heaven, but they can as spirits, this is why they can go to and from heaven as they please. This is also why the curse of death does not apply to angels, which is why it states that when we get our glorified bodies on the day of the lord, we will no longer have a need to marry and procreate because we will be immortal like the angels in heaven. But as of right now, we are not. Just like the first Adam was made lower than the angels in heaven, who before the fall was crowned with glory as the image bearer of God and given dominion over creation, so to was Jesus, the second Adam made lower than the angels and crowned with glory over all things seen and unseen in his resurrection.

Did Paul not say we have 2 bodies?

When we die the flesh returns to the dust,the spirit which is us returns to God.The flesh will not rise......

If you understand that we are in Heaven before birth,you'd get it.....


[SIZE=10pt]Job 38:4[/SIZE][SIZE=10pt] "Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding."[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]Job 38:5[/SIZE][SIZE=10pt] "Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]Job 38:6[/SIZE][SIZE=10pt] "Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;"[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]Job 38:7[/SIZE][SIZE=10pt] "When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for Joy?"[/SIZE]


[SIZE=10pt]Are you a son of God?[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]The above verses are before the rebellion of satan,and we were all there,had satan not sinned,we would never had been made flesh.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]At death we return to how we were before being born of woman(flesh)...[/SIZE]

 

[Dcopymope]

Did Paul not say we have 2 bodies?

When we die the flesh returns to the dust,the spirit which is us returns to God.The flesh will not rise......

If you understand that we are in Heaven before birth,you'd get it.....


Job 38:4 "Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding."

Job 38:5 "Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?

Job 38:6 "Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;"

Job 38:7 "When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for Joy?"


Are you a son of God?

The above verses are before the rebellion of satan,and we were all there,had satan not sinned,we would never had been made flesh.

At death we return to how we were before being born of woman(flesh)...

Nothing you state here says anything about us being in heaven before birth. I only recall a few verses stating that God knew us before we were in the womb, but it says nothing about us being in heaven. He knew us before we existed because to God, there is no past present or future, because he is the beginning and the end. To him, the future has already occurred. We didn't actually exist before we were formed in the womb, God knew us beforehand because of his omniscience.

I am adopted as a son of God because of the atonement of my sins through Jesus Christ, and because I confess that Jesus Christ is Lord and savior. Ever since the fall, no human can ever claim to be a son of god before the birth death and ressurection of Jesus Christ. You only become a son of god because of Jesus, not because you were created to be. So therefore, the only true sons of God who were shouting for joy at the creation of earth were his angels. What you are claiming is actually blasphemy of the highest order, because you are claiming to be saved as a son of god without the remission of sins by Jesus Christ.

 

[n2thelight]

Nothing you state here says anything about us being in heaven before birth. I only recall a few verses stating that God knew us before we were in the womb, but it says nothing about us being in heaven. He knew us before we existed because to God, there is no past present or future, because he is the beginning and the end. To him, the future has already occurred. We didn't actually exist before we were formed in the womb, God knew us beforehand because of his omniscience.

I am adopted as a son of God because of the atonement of my sins through Jesus Christ, and because I confess that Jesus Christ is Lord and savior. Ever since the fall, no human can ever claim to be a son of god before the birth death and ressurection of Jesus Christ. You only become a son of god because of Jesus, not because you were created to be. So therefore, the only true sons of God who were shouting for joy at the creation of earth were his angels. What you are claiming is actually blasphemy of the highest order, because you are claiming to be saved as a son of god without the remission of sins by Jesus Christ.

Whatever you say......That's the answer I thought you would give.

And where me I ask, did I state that I was saved?

So you think God knows who will be saved?

 

[Dcopymope]

Whatever you say......That's the answer I thought you would give.

And where me I ask, did I state that I was saved?

So you think God knows who will be saved?

You claimed to be saved without the remission of sins when you claimed that we already existed as sons of god before the creation of the earth. First of all, we never existed in heaven or anywhere else as spirit beings before the creation account. Secondly, no one can claim to be a son of god until they repent of their sins and confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. For any human to claim to be a son of god after the fall before the reconciliation of the creation to the Father through his son is to claim to be saved as a son of god before the remission of sins. If you want to play dumb, we can play that game, as you spread your blatant heresy.

 

[skypair]

Until someone presents a scripture saying: God will take His people up to heaven, or a very similar verse, then I will continue to call the rapture theory a Satanic lie.

[/QUOTE]Either that or YOU are following the Satanic lie, right?

OK, let's review the rapture passages so that you won't blaspheme the Spirit any longer — first off, Rev 4:1. John experiences the rapture in a vision in which he is taken up to God's throne in heaven and shown what must come "hereafter."

In Rev 3:10-12 we learn that those who have "kept the word of [God's] patience" will be kept from the hour of temptation coming on the world and will, instead, become "pillars in the temple of My God" which, later, comes down from heaven (New Jerusalem, Rev 21).

Mt 25:1-12 says that the "wise virgins" will GO OUT to meet the bridegrom while the foolish stay behind and "go and buy" salvation later to appear in heaven (Rev 6:9, 5th seal).

1Thes 4:16-17 say we will meet Christ in the air on our way to heaven — "mortal to immortal" says 1Cor 15:51-53.

2Thes 2:6-7 say that we must be taken "out of the way" so that "that Wicked" (you know .. the one you may end up worshiping - 2Thes 2:10-12) may be revealed on the earth.

Jn 14:1-4 Jesus tells us that He will come for us that "where He is, there we may be also." Where is He? In heavenly Jerusalem, Heb 12:22-24.

1Cor 15:23-24 tells us of 3 raptures: 1) the "firstfruits" with Jesus in His rapture/resurrection to heaven, 2) "those that are His at His coming [in the air]," and 3) when He delivers up His Millennial Kingdom to the Father [Rev 20:11). Thusly shall we see 1Cor 15:51 fulfilled "we ALL [saved] must be changed" because "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God" which is in heaven until the New Earth, Rev 21.

Rev 19:1, I have already posted that this refers to the souls of the martyrs. They are allowed to cry out at times. Note: it sounded like.... not actual people there.

Rev 19:11-19 The Return of Jesus accompanied by the armies of heaven, who destroy the armies of the kings of the earth and chain up the beast.
If you were trying to prove a rapture to heaven anywhere there, then you have failed miserably.

Don't you wish the rapture was limited to Rev 19 for confirmation.


May I suggest that you study - no, wait .. you can't study what I posted above if you blaspheme the Spirit. Blasphemy is a rejection of what the scripture/Spirit says. You first will have to "repent to the acknowledging of the truth," 2Tim 2:25. Well, perhaps with this much evidence, you will repent, eh? I'll pray for you.

skypair

 

[Heb 13:8]

Common sense to me....So do tell,what kind of bodies do angels have?

Common sense would be to use scripture. There is no scripture. That's why you have none.

Heb 13 said: Rev 19:1 - Where in scripture does it say martyrs exist in heaven right now without their bodies? The Greek translation for spirit is wind. How does wind have a tongue?

They are the souls of the martyrs kept under the Altar. Rev 6:9-11

Heb 13 said: Rev 19:11-19 - Both the armies of heaven and the great multitude are the body of Christ coming down from heaven with Jesus and landing on the mount of olives.

Matthew 24:30-31, Mark 13:26 and Jude 1:14 all say He comes with His angels and Rev 19:14; the armies of heaven. You have been fooled by the rapture teachers into making scripture say something it plainly does not.
Time for you to have a reality check, before its too late and the Lord asks you why you didn't believe what was written and followed fables and fairy tales.

Rev 19:1 - Where in scripture do spirit bodies exist. There are no scriptures, only opinions.

Rev 19:11-19 - Not only will all believers be dressed in fine linen that is white and clean, they will also be attending the wedding supper. The "holy people" describe all believers in Christ from first resurrection and rapture. Notice 2 Thess 1:10 says that, "this includes you"...

Mat 27:52 and the tombs broke open. The bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life.

2 Thess 1:10 on the day he comes to be glorified in his holy people and to be marveled at among all those who have believed. This includes you, because you believed our testimony to you.

Rev 19:8-9 Fine linen, bright and clean, was given her to wear.” (Fine linen stands for the righteous acts of God’s holy people.) 9Then the angel said to me, “Write this: Blessed are those who are invited to the wedding supper of the Lamb!” And he added, “These are the true words of God.”

Rev 19:14 The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean.

 

[keras]

Those who prefer to think they can just shoot up to heaven when things get tough on earth are in for a big surprise. We are all here for a purpose, do not for a moment think that purpose is finished when the Lord sends His judgement onto the earth. As He will do when the Islamic confederation goes to attack Israel. Psalm 83, Micah 4:11-12

Now, some more proof of who are the true Israel of God:

[SIZE=medium]From the earliest time, God called [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]Israel[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] to be the focal point of His mediation, as a [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]light[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] to the Gentiles. [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]Pay heed to Me, My people, listen My nation, instruction will shine forth from Me[/SIZE] [SIZE=medium]and My judgement will be a light for all peoples[/SIZE][SIZE=medium]. Isaiah 51:4[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]As 1 Corinthians 10:4 and John 1:3 shows, it was Jesus Christ, even in the Old Testament period, who shone His light through Israel to the nations. However, when Israel turned away from God, Jesus stepped out of eternity to continue His divinely ordained role of a light to the world:[/SIZE] [SIZE=medium]As long as I am in the world[/SIZE][SIZE=medium], [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]I am the light of the world[/SIZE][SIZE=medium].[/SIZE] [SIZE=medium]John 9:5 [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Upon His departure, Jesus conferred His presence upon the disciples, John 20:22, and they (and subsequently we) [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]became the Israel which Christ utilizes to mediate His glory to the Gentiles.[/SIZE] [SIZE=medium]Mathew 5:14-16 [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]You are the light of the world.[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] Blessed are you, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for My sake.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Acts 13:47 [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]For so has the Lord commanded [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]us[/SIZE][SIZE=medium], saying,[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] I have set you to be a light for [/SIZE] [SIZE=medium]the Gentiles[/SIZE][SIZE=medium], that you should be for salvation unto the ends of the earth. And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.[/SIZE] [SIZE=medium]Paul[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] confirmed that Christian believers are the light of the world, shining through our temples (our bodies), and this fulfilling Isaiah’s prophecy which says that the body of Christ is to be viewed as [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]born again Israel[/SIZE][SIZE=medium],[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] shining His light to the Gentiles. Isaiah 42:6, Isaiah 49:8[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Many want to see the “Church” as another chosen body, which came into existence when the Jews rejected Christ. Some say that “Church” [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]replaced[/SIZE] [SIZE=medium]Israel, while others, cognizant of the many Old Testament prophecies which promise the Lord[/SIZE] [SIZE=medium]will yet choose Israel[/SIZE][SIZE=medium], Isaiah 14:1, see a future regathering of ethnic Jews into salvation in Christ. However, salvation occurred in the Spirit of the Lord [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]at the cross[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] – and it obviously began in the first century. Many Jews did receive salvation then and have since. But to make two people - two promises out of it all, is quite wrong and only done in order to support the belief of a rapture, thereby making a further error.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Those true Christian believers who genuinely respond to the Gospel have become [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]Spiritual Israel[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] and the Messianic Jews are the [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]remnant[/SIZE] [SIZE=medium]spoken of in Romans: [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Even so then at this present time also [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]there is a remnant[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] according to the election of grace. And if that salvation is by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. What then? Old Covenant Israel did not obtain that which they sought;[/SIZE] [SIZE=medium]but the election [/SIZE][SIZE=medium][born again Christians][/SIZE][SIZE=medium] has obtained it[/SIZE][SIZE=medium].[/SIZE] [SIZE=medium]Romans 11:5[/SIZE] [SIZE=medium]Ref: [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]James Lloyd[/SIZE]

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

I will continue to call the rapture theory a Satanic lie.

So the writer of blind Bible study guides calls Scripture a satanic lie.
Should you follow whatever else he has to say?

1Th 4:15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

That is the Rapture, harpazo, to be caught up; in the Latin, rapio - and from where we derive our word: Rapture.
It's IN the Bible.
It is not a satanic lie.

 

[Heb 13:8]

Those who prefer to think they can just shoot up to heaven when things get tough on earth are in for a big surprise.

Underline: I see that you ignored my post that proves God's holy people and angels are both the armies of heaven, and you still have not proven spirit bodies exist.

Rev 15:6 Out of the temple came the seven angels with the seven plagues. They were dressed in clean, shining linen and wore golden sashes around their chests.

Rev 19:8-9 Fine linen, bright and clean, was given her to wear.” (Fine linen stands for the righteous acts of God’s holy people.) 9Then the angel said to me, “Write this: Blessed are those who are invited to the wedding supper of the Lamb!” And he added, “These are the true words of God.”

 

[Heb 13:8]

So the writer of blind Bible study guides calls Scripture a satanic lie.
Should you follow whatever else he has to say?

1Th 4:15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

That is the Rapture, harpazo, to be caught up; in the Latin, rapio - and from where we derive our word: Rapture.
It's IN the Bible.
It is not a satanic lie.

The majority of the christian world believes in either a pre-trib rapture, mid-trib rapture or pre-wrath rapture, but keras believes in no rapture.

 

[Dcopymope]

So the writer of blind Bible study guides calls Scripture a satanic lie.
Should you follow whatever else he has to say?

1Th 4:15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

That is the Rapture, harpazo, to be caught up; in the Latin, rapio - and from where we derive our word: Rapture.
It's IN the Bible.
It is not a satanic lie.

(Matthew 24:30-41) "And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. {31} And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. {32} Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: {33} So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. {34} Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. {35} Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. {36} ¶ But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. {37} But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. {38} For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, {39} And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. {40} Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. {41} Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left."

I'll ask the same question I asked before; Where are the elect being taken to? Are they being taken to Foreman Mills? McDonald's? A cave? Costco? Or are they going to be taken up into the clouds like scripture plainly states we will? I don't understand how someone can't see the rapture in scripture. Personally, I believe in the pre-wrath rapture, because its made quite clear that this is the case in the same chapter. First comes the beginning of sorrows and then the great tribulation, the days of which will be shortened for the elects sake on the Day of the Lord. This is as clear as day to me.

 

[Heb 13:8]

I don't understand how someone can't see the rapture in scripture.

The same way they can't see the Gospel of faith, probably. 2 Cor 4:4.

Personally, I believe in the pre-wrath rapture, because its made quite clear that this is the case in the same chapter. First comes the beginning of sorrows and then the great tribulation, the days of which will be shortened for the elects sake on the Day of the Lord. This is as clear as day to me.

Pre-wrath is the only answer.