All the ELECT please stand up

[CNKW3]

Well, I believe it is a symbol. Conversion/the new birth occurs before the symbol of baptism, which is as a confession of one's already existing faith. Acts 2.41-42.

I am now going to post on another thread, probably.

Baptism is not JUST a symbol. Who taught you that?
It wasn’t from the Bible.
Let’s look at the verses you posted.
Acts 2:41-42 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.
The text says that those that received his word were baptized.

What did Peter say in the couple of preceding verses...
Acts 2:37-40 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
So, when it says they gladly received his word, how much of his word did they receive? Some of it or ALL. Who would take the position that these individuals received only a portion of Peters word. That is absurd and ludicrous. These people received ALL of Peters word and were obedient to it and were saved only AFTER they had obeyed ALL Peter had to say.
It is the same with Cornelius. The Bible says that Cornelius would receive WORDS by which he and his household would be saved. Acts 11.
How many words did Cornelius hear to save him? Just a couple or was it the whole message he was responsible for? Only the corrupt would pick out a select few and disregard the rest.
Acts 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
I guess Cornelius could just disregard these words. He could if he would have been a baptist.

 

[farouk]

Baptism is not JUST a symbol. Who taught you that?
It wasn’t from the Bible.
Let’s look at the verses you posted.
Acts 2:41-42 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.
The text says that those that received his word were baptized.

What did Peter say in the couple of preceding verses...
Acts 2:37-40 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
So, when it says they gladly received his word, how much of his word did they receive? Some of it or ALL. Who would take the position that these individuals received only a portion of Peters word. That is absurd and ludicrous. These people received ALL of Peters word and were obedient to it and were saved only AFTER they had obeyed ALL Peter had to say.
It is the same with Cornelius. The Bible says that Cornelius would receive WORDS by which he and his household would be saved. Acts 11.
How many words did Cornelius hear to save him? Just a couple or was it the whole message he was responsible for? Only the corrupt would pick out a select few and disregard the rest.
Acts 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
I guess Cornelius could just disregard these words. He could if he would have been a baptist.

The symbol of baptism was on account of the forgiveness of sins - the answer of a good conscience toward God - and not supposedly in order to receive the forgiveness of sins. Acts 2.41 makes this clear.

 

[Enoch111]

Baptism is not JUST a symbol. Who taught you that?

Are you suggesting that water baptism saves sinners? That's what the Catholics and a few others believe, but that is not what the Bible says.
Baptism symbolizes internal spiritual realities, since ordinary H2O cannot wash away sins.

 

[CNKW3]

Well we were discussing church history, not Bible exposition.

1. I already told you that those churches in the NT were "apostolic churches". They are called churches of Christ, churches of God, or simply churches. It makes no difference. They were assemblies of Christians.

Yes and no where were they ever called a baptist, Methodist, Presbyterian, etc.

2. Before the Reformation, Christians who were following the NT pattern, simply called themselves Christians, not "Baptists" or "Ana-baptists".

Yes, so why change it and start being called baptist, Methodist, etc? Was “Christian” not good enough?

3. The Reformers all came out of the Catholic church and practiced infant baptism. Therefore they were persecuting and killing those who opposed infant baptism.

4. Those who rejected infant baptism baptized only adult believers. The Reformers called them "Ana-Baptists" or "Re-baptizers" because they re-baptized those who had been baptized as infants.

5. The Baptists arose at that times because they were like the Ana-Baptists in that they believed strictly in believer's baptism, but had some doctrines which were not identical.

Yes, and that is not what the NT churches taught. That is why they are called baptist, Methodist, Presbyterian, etc...they are divided by doctrine. In my town we have a Christian church and baptist church share the same parking lot. Believe that? They share the same parking lot. And people think Jesus is up there happy about that. They must have missed all the passages we have commanding unity. There is NO UNITY in denominationalism.
Go on the Methodist website and you wont see them praising baptist doctrine. You’ll see plenty about John Wesley though. I watched a Charles Stanley sermon where he threw the Methodist under the bus because they sprinkle infants. There is NO UNITY in denominationalism.

 

[farouk]

Are you suggesting that water baptism saves sinners? That's what the Catholics and a few others believe, but that is not what the Bible says.
Baptism symbolizes internal spiritual realities, since ordinary H2O cannot wash away sins.

Excellent post.

Unity without Biblical truth is a conspiracy.

 

[CNKW3]

Are you suggesting that water baptism saves sinners? That's what the Catholics and a few others believe, but that is not what the Bible says.
Baptism symbolizes internal spiritual realities, since ordinary H2O cannot wash away sins.

The blood saves sinners. But WHEN, WHEN does that happen?
Mk 16:16
Acts 2:38
Acts 3:19
Acts 22:16
Jn 3:5
Rom 6: 3,4,5,17,18
1 pet 3:21
Thee is no evidence in the NT that anybody ever slept or ate before they were baptized. If you can find them show them to me.
Now, where are all your passages that teach people are saved before baptism and that it’s only a symbol.
You will probably start posting passages that say we are saved by faith. I agree, But it does not say faith alone, and those passages don’t mention repentance or confession either. Rom 10:9,10.
The Bible is is clear in James 2:24, but that don’t matter to denominations.
I will then post all the passages that say we are saved by many different things but we know we aren’t saved by those alone
Ex...we are saved by hope, but we know it’s not hope alone, but for some reason you and the rest want to add “alone” to faith but not to these other words. You can’t help but cling to false baptist doctrine and you will never give it up.

 

[CNKW3]

Excellent post.

Unity without Biblical truth is a conspiracy.

So there is no biblical truth in the following verse...
Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
Where did those sins go??? They were WASHED AWAY with water. This is when the believer comes in contact with the blood. But, nooooo. There’s no biblical truth here.

 

[farouk]

So there is no biblical truth in the following verse...
Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
Where did those sins go??? They were WASHED AWAY with water. This is when the believer comes in contact with the blood. But, nooooo. There’s no biblical truth here.

Hebrews 9.14 makes it clear that it is the Spirit applying the blood to the conscience that purges sins. Water is a symbol, an answer of a good conscience toward God (1 Peter 3.21).

You are teaching baptismal regeneration, which from Scripture I strongly see as false.

 

[SovereignGrace]

The churches in the NT were called..
Churches of Christ Rom 16:16.
Most early churches were started by Paul and others but they were still churches that belonged to Christ. Read 1 Cor 1. Paul did not want his name any where near it.

And they met in ppl's houses. The CoC cult you reside in did not come into existence until the late 1800's-early 1900's, and Alexander Campbell, who came out of the Baptists(apparently he was a Presbyterian who was affiliated with the Baptists), helped get them started.

The CoC you go to, there were none of them from, well from until they were started at the earliest, the late-1800's.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Church of Christ, any of several conservative Protestant churches, found chiefly in the United States. They are strongest in parts of the Midwest and in the western and southern parts of the country. Each church is known locally as a Church of Christ and its members as Christians, and each church is autonomous in government, with elders, deacons, and a minister or ministers. There is no organization beyond the local church.


The early history of this group is identical to that of the Disciples of Christ. They developed from various religious movements in the United States in the early 19th century, especially those led by Barton W. Stone in Kentucky and Thomas Campbell and Alexander Campbell in Pennsylvania and West Virginia. These men had all been Presbyterians. They pleaded for the Bible as the only standard of faith, without additional creeds, and for the unity of the people of God by the restoration of New Testament Christianity. Refusing affiliation with any sect, they called themselves simply Christians.

Controversies developed among the Christians about the middle of the 19th century, principally over the scriptural authorization for organized mission societies and the use of instrumental music in worship. In 1906 in the federal census of religion there was added to the earlier listing of Disciples of Christ a new listing of Churches of Christ that enumerated those congregations opposing organized mission societies and instrumental music. The New Testament mentions neither, and, therefore, the Churches of Christ consider them to be unauthorized innovations.


After the division, the Churches of Christ continued to grow. Though the churches oppose organized mission societies, missionary work is supported by individual churches and is carried on in 100 foreign fields. Members of the Churches of Christ support more than 20 liberal arts colleges and numerous high schools.



A hallmark of worship in the Churches of Christ tradition is unaccompanied congregational singing. Baptism is of adults, and the Lord’s Supper is observed as a memorial of Christ’s death. The Churches of Christ affirm the orthodox teaching of the person of Christ and the Bible as the sole rule of faith and practice with the primacy of the New Testament as the revelation of the will of God. Most churches do not take part in interdenominational activities.

In 1997 the group reported 1,800,000 members and 14,400 congregations in the United States and 8,000 members and 140 congregations in Canada. There are no officers or headquarters.

Church of Christ | American Protestantism

As you can see, the Churches of Christ didn't come into existence until much later. They can not find any historical evidence that there were churches of Christ from circa 40AD--------->1800's. For ~1,800 years these churches were nonexistent.

Don't let this reprobate cultist tell you that if you are not baptized and in the CoC cult you are not saved.

 

[CNKW3]

Hebrews 9.14 makes it clear that it is the Spirit applying the blood to the conscience that purges sins. Water is a symbol, an answer of a good conscience toward God (1 Peter 3.21).

You are teaching baptismal regeneration, which from Scripture I strongly see as false.

You know what else is connected to your conscience? Water baptism...
1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

A persons conscience is purged when they do what they know that Lord has commanded through the Spirit.
Here’s another....
Hebrews 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

It is from the heart that man obeys and is baptized...
Rom 6:3,4,17,18..
This is when we receive a clear and purged conscience.

 

[Kermos]

The audience for those two verses were the twelve only. It was the last supper and nobody else was there. I don’t know what that thread said. It doesn’t matter because the Bible is clear. Show me where anyone else was at the last supper. You have all the answers so it shouldn’t be hard..
...snip

Matthias and Joseph mentioned in Exhibit 7 are described as:

"Therefore it is necessary that of the men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us - beginning with the baptism of John until the day that He was taken up from us - one of these [must] become a witness with us of His resurrection." So they put forward two men, Joseph called Barsabbas (who was also called Justus), and Matthias.
(Acts 1:21-23)

The phrase "accompanied us all the time" puts at least two more people than the twelve at the supper covered in John chapters 13-17.

"The Audience of Lord Jesus for John 14:16 and John 15:16 Are All Dicsiples In All Time Post" (in this thread) is true and valid based on scripture, and this is the post that includes the above referenced Exhibit 7. Said post exposes CKNW3's deception, error, and misinterpretation of scripture. You really need to read the Said post instead of dismissing then spouting off false doctrine, and @Nancy binds to CKNW3 false teachings with the "like"!

This is clear, perhaps it is distasteful to you: It appears that CKNW3, according to CKNW3's logic - which is truly illogic, it appears that CKNW3 claims that CKNW3 can choose Jesus that which Jesus said the Apostles could not do therefore CKNW3 considers CKNW3 more capable than the Apostles - according to CKNW3 illogic. CKNW3's deceit condemns CKNW3.

The Wonderful Lord Jesus says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16), and Jesus, Who is Lord, says "I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever" (John 14:16), and Jesus, my Lord and my God, speaks these things to all His sheep of all time!

 

[Mjh29]

These men had all been Presbyterians

You sayin' somethin bruh?

 

[Preacher4Truth]

Church of Christ, any of several conservative Protestant churches, found chiefly in the United States. They are strongest in parts of the Midwest and in the western and southern parts of the country. Each church is known locally as a Church of Christ and its members as Christians, and each church is autonomous in government, with elders, deacons, and a minister or ministers. There is no organization beyond the local church.


The early history of this group is identical to that of the Disciples of Christ. They developed from various religious movements in the United States in the early 19th century, especially those led by Barton W. Stone in Kentucky and Thomas Campbell and Alexander Campbell in Pennsylvania and West Virginia. These men had all been Presbyterians. They pleaded for the Bible as the only standard of faith, without additional creeds, and for the unity of the people of God by the restoration of New Testament Christianity. Refusing affiliation with any sect, they called themselves simply Christians.

Controversies developed among the Christians about the middle of the 19th century, principally over the scriptural authorization for organized mission societies and the use of instrumental music in worship. In 1906 in the federal census of religion there was added to the earlier listing of Disciples of Christ a new listing of Churches of Christ that enumerated those congregations opposing organized mission societies and instrumental music. The New Testament mentions neither, and, therefore, the Churches of Christ consider them to be unauthorized innovations.


After the division, the Churches of Christ continued to grow. Though the churches oppose organized mission societies, missionary work is supported by individual churches and is carried on in 100 foreign fields. Members of the Churches of Christ support more than 20 liberal arts colleges and numerous high schools.



A hallmark of worship in the Churches of Christ tradition is unaccompanied congregational singing. Baptism is of adults, and the Lord’s Supper is observed as a memorial of Christ’s death. The Churches of Christ affirm the orthodox teaching of the person of Christ and the Bible as the sole rule of faith and practice with the primacy of the New Testament as the revelation of the will of God. Most churches do not take part in interdenominational activities.

In 1997 the group reported 1,800,000 members and 14,400 congregations in the United States and 8,000 members and 140 congregations in Canada. There are no officers or headquarters.

Church of Christ | American Protestantism

As you can see, the Churches of Christ didn't come into existence until much later. They can not find any historical evidence that there were churches of Christ from circa 40AD--------->1800's. For ~1,800 years these churches were nonexistent.

Don't let this reprobate cultist tell you that if you are not baptized and in the CoC cult you are not saved.

The way they attempt to get around their non existence early on is by pointing to verses that say "churches of Christ" and then give an accomplished retort. Romans 16:16 is one example.

One hit me with this as proof you have to have the right name on the building and it had to be from the Bible, and therefore they are the only true church, and the bible proves it. I showed him a verse that said "church of God" and asked what about that? Acts 20:28 for instance. He said "You're trying to confuse me!" Lolzzzz. Nope.

He and his wife began attending our church at that point. They weren't even in a church at all.

 

[SovereignGrace]

The way they attempt to get around their non existence early on is by pointing to verses that say "churches of Christ" and then give an accomplished retort. Romans 16:16 is one example.

One hit me with this as proof you have to have the right name on the building and it had to be from the Bible, and therefore they are the only true church, and the bible proves it. I showed him a verse that said "church of God" and asked what about that? Acts 20:28 for instance. He said "You're trying to confuse me!" Lolzzzz. Nope.

He and his wife began attending our church at that point. They weren't even in a church at all.

The Churches of Christ were not in existence until Alexander Campbell and some others in the “Restoration Movement” started them. These churches were called Campbellites for a reason, youse nose?

There were no Churches of Christ in England at any time. I guess of those died lost, eh?

 

[SovereignGrace]

You sayin' somethin bruh?

But Campbell’s Church was affiliated with a Baptist association.

 

[farouk]

But Campbell’s Church was affiliated with a Baptist association.

I don't know much about them...

 

[SovereignGrace]

I don't know much about them...

And that’s why they, the Churches of Christ, can’t be traced back to the days of the Apostles. Their history starts in the 1800’s with Alexander Campbell and the “Restoration Movement”.

 

[farouk]

And that’s why they, the Churches of Christ, can’t be traced back to the days of the Apostles. Their history starts in the 1800’s with Alexander Campbell and the “Restoration Movement”.

In a sense I do appreciate the idea of not being bound by denominational labels.

Something stirs a memory that the CoC seems to believe in baptismal regeneration, if I'm not mistaken.

 

[SovereignGrace]

In a sense I do appreciate the idea of not being bound by denominational labels.

Something stirs a memory that the CoC seems to believe in baptismal regeneration, if I'm not mistaken.

Yes. I live in the middle of two of them. They’re old school, too. Some CoC have abandoned the belief they’re the only ones saved, but most, if not all, still hold to baptismal regeneration.