SovereignGrace
Certified Flunky
I gave him the Bible usage of foreknowledge and got crickets.I asked you the questions first. You answered my questions with a question, totally avoiding me. This happened in post 158.
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I gave him the Bible usage of foreknowledge and got crickets.I asked you the questions first. You answered my questions with a question, totally avoiding me. This happened in post 158.
No, no. You mentioned Jn 1:13 above and have in the past falsely claimed we are saved in the same way as those in John 1. So, my question to you is...You're all over the place. Show us a verse that shows the elect can be deceived. Hint: you're misusing a text, and I know what it says, and it doesn't mean what you're implying.
He’s set in his traditions. I bet he never reads anyone, afraid he might learn something.Nope, your loss.
You are now in a long line of people that won’t answer questions. You nor anybody else seems to think they have to defend anything they say. You talk about me and judging (passing judgement on me) I then ask for you to explain when it’s right to judge, and you say , nope! Not gonna do it.Nope, your loss.
" My hope is unassailable! "Hi Nancy,
I appreciate your care for me! My hope is unassailable! My Creator is here with me. He loves, He will never ever leave me for a moment. He never has.
I just have a thing that I like to hold people accountable. I've been in internet debate forums for about 20 years. I've generally settled into 1 at t time an stay a long time. I've seen 2 go from crazy active to virtually nothing, unhappily. But there were reasons.
I've seen the anger that gets directed against those who disagree with this doctrine, but I see it for what it is. The one who has faith eats.
My hope is that others may see where logical fallacies are used, and that it might mean something! When important questions remain unanswered, and that this would mean something! When all the dodging and insulting and fallacies are stripped away, and a true discussion can happen.
I'll answer any question anyone asks of me. I think about Paul writing about not presenting the Gospel in any underhanded way. Straight forward, above board, that is me. But not everything is useful at every time. I've actually been pursuing this question for a few weeks, if memory serves.
I'm not really interested in moving past it. You know, the fact is, you're most likely right. But for a different reason, I think.
Much love!
You read things into what people say that aren't there and then do the same with Bible.You are now in a long line of people that won’t answer questions. You nor anybody else seems to think they have to defend anything they say. You talk about me and judging (passing judgement on me) I then ask for you to explain when it’s right to judge, and you say , nope! Not gonna do it.
You are now in a long line of people that won’t answer questions. You nor anybody else seems to think they have to defend anything they say. You talk about me and judging (passing judgement on me) I then ask for you to explain when it’s right to judge, and you say , nope! Not gonna do it.
That’s deep.To what can I compare this generation? They are like children sitting in the marketplaces and calling out to others:
You are still not answering. How can we resolve Jn 1 if you don’t want to answer a basic question.You read things into what people say that aren't there and then do the same with Bible.
That explains a lot!
That is not what 1 Cor 2 says. We can’t know unless he reveals and what he has revealed is found in the book he has left us.Hear what the Holy Spirit has to say....
No man can know what is the mind of God...1 Corinthians 2 BSB
Do we continually post on this forum purporting to know what God intends to say?
Stop....be led of the Holy Spirit and answer accordingly.
You didn't get the intent of what I was saying. There shouldn't be so much disagreement concerning His Word....we should pray and seek God's wisdom in scripture and share what is given us by revelation through the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit gives us the understanding of scripture according to His Will...and it says no man can know His thoughts except the Spirit of God.That is not what 1 Cor 2 says. We can’t know unless he reveals and what he has revealed is found in the book he has left us.
Dt 29:29 tells us that the secret things belong to the Lord but what has been revealed belongs to us.
We can know the mind and will of God through study of his word. The HS does not lead today apart from the word he has left us. He leads through his word. That’s the problem, people are thinking they are getting some kind of special treatment and they aren’t. Go to my 1 Cor 2 is abused thread.
The HS is not going to tell us something through his word and then tell you something different. Not gonna happen.
n your claim that Chris uses an unbiblical definition of foreknowledge, would you mind showing from the Bible your definition?
Since the basic linguistic meaning of the word is to know ahead of time, where do we find this defined another way?
Well my mistakeYou didn't get the intent of what I was saying. There shouldn't be so much disagreement concerning His Word....we should pray and seek God's wisdom in scripture and share what is given us by revelation through the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit gives us the understanding of scripture according to His Will...and it says no man can know His thoughts except the Spirit of God.
Bible Gateway passage: 1 Corinthians 2:10-12 - King James Version
This is quite a tricky question. In the Greek, the word Proginosko means the same as to foreordain. While it does mean to know before, it does not mean to know actions before. God "knew us before" in the sense that He elected us, but not in the sense that He chose based on actions, because that would contradict Romans 9:11. This is what [I believe] Brother Anthony was eluding to; that if a definition does not line up with Scriptures, it cannot be the correct definition.
Thayer NT 4267: προγινώσκω
προγινώσκω; 2 aorist 3 person singular προέγνω; perfect passive participle προεγνωσμενος; to have knowledge of beforehand; to foreknow
Robertson; Romans 8:29
Foreknew (proegnō). Second aorist active indicative of proginōskō, old verb as in Act_26:5. See Psalms 1:6 (lxx) and Mat_7:23. This fore-knowledge and choice is placed in eternity in Eph_1:4.
He foreordained (proōrisen). First aorist active indicative of proorizō, late verb to appoint beforehand as in Act_4:28; 1Co_2:7. Another compound with prȯ (for eternity).
Vincent; Did foreknow (προέγνω)
Five times in the New Testament. In all cases it means foreknow. Act_26:5; 1Pe_1:20; 2Pe_3:17; Rom_11:2. It does not mean foreordain. It signifies prescience, not preelection. “It is God's being aware in His plan, by means of which, before the subjects are destined by Him to salvation, He knows whom He has to destine thereto” (Meyer).
hi Mjh29,
Thank you for your response!
On this part bolded . . .
(He puts "foreordained" as the word after)
These are some of the scholars people often look to in understanding the Greek words. I have my college Koine Greek from many years ago. Not to mention my own set of reference books.
But I fail to see where Foreknew should be understood as predestine, and especially since foreknew and predesting appear side by side, one having been given as the precedent for the other.
As to the constuction of the word itself, Pro is clearly "before, ahead of", ginosko, I know, I understand, I am aware, I perceive; these would all be good translations I believe. But ginosko, I don't think, can be translatable as "determine", "ordain", like that.
What can you show me that this word in Greek means "pre-ordain"?
Much love!
You definition of the word seems [not sure so feel free to correct me.] to reflect the idea that God foreknows based on the actions of the person foreknown.
God foreknows simply because He is God. He is not governed by the actions of men, but He already knows what will take place from the very beginning....God foreknows based on the actions of the person foreknown...
He foreordained them then predestined them. Again, I believe that our definitions should reflect what the Scriptures teach first and foremost. You definition of the word seems [not sure so feel free to correct me.] to reflect the idea that God foreknows based on the actions of the person foreknown. This directly contradicts Romans 9:11, so it cannot be true. [again, I am not saying you believe this, I am simply stating what I thought you meant. If this is not what you meant, please let me know.]
To foreordain means to know in the sense of knowing as a father knows his son; to set His special love upon them, a love reserved only for His elect. Before the foundation of the world, God foreknew [placed His love upon] some, and those he predestined.
To foreordain means to know in the sense of knowing as a father knows his son; to set His special love upon them, a love reserved only for His elect. Before the foundation of the world, God foreknew [placed His love upon] some, and those he predestined.