"All things are lawful..."

[Phoneman777]

In your hypothetical "saved who presumptuously sins impenitently choosing permanently to not repent demanding forgiveness" man, this is a man of your own creation. Who does this describe? And as anyone gives an answer your adjectives of your hypothetical man add on and on, to defy all response.

That's the problem with hypotheticals. They are just not real.

You paint a man, a "saved" man, and you paint him all the colors of the unsaved, unregerate man. OK. So who is this? Everyone who believes rebirth is forever?

Much love!

"Hypothetical"?

Matthew 24:12-13 KJV plainly tells us there will be saints who allow widespread iniquity to kill their agape cold and dead, leaving them unable to "endure to the end" and be saved, unlike the saint in verse 13 who will be saved.

Isn't iniquity "habitual, deliberate, known, presumptuous sin"?

 

[Behold]

" "endure to the end" and be saved, ?

You're not much of a bible student, according to this nonsense you just posted, and all the rest.

Let me show you your verse, in Context.

"endure to the end'...

That is not to the end of your life , as all Cross denying heretics teach.
But rather, Jesus gave a CONTEXT for the TIME that is happening, the season, or if you prefer the dispensation..
Jesus said, when you ""see the abomination of Desolation....."
See that Phonemann777, ????
Jesus says that when you see that, then those who are in that situation, have to "endure to the END" of it.>.
And when does the abomination of desolation show up?
Its in the 3-4th year of the Great Trib, when the Anti-Christ presents himself as a DEITY.
Thats the GREAT TRIBULATION...
So, if you actually read a bible, you would have noticed that your verse, is next to Jesus's other verses that are all talking about this, so that you understand that He is talking about enduring to the end.....of the Great Tribulation.
So, if you are here then, and you see the Son of Perdition, in that 2nd Half of the 7 yrs Grt TRIB, be sure you that you endure to the end of it as Jesus told you.

 

[Desire Of All Nations]

Scriptures should not be taken out of context. Paul is addressing the issue of dietary restrictions:

THE ISSUE OF DIETARY RESTRICTIONS
14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean. 15 But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.

12 All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any. 13 Meats for the belly, and the belly for meats: but God shall destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for fornication, but for the Lord; and the Lord for the body.

23 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not. 24 Let no man seek his own, but every man another's wealth. 25 Whatsoever is sold in the shambles [marketplace], that eat, asking no question for conscience sake: 26 For the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof.

While the Law of Moses had many dietary restrictions, the Law of Christ has practically none. See Acts 15. So these passages are NOT about a license to sin at all.

This is a completely dishonest reading of Paul's words, and it has become predictable for adherents of counterfeit Christianity to use these passages as "proof" that Christ abolished the kosher law.

Christ clearly stated in Matt. 5:17 that He didn't come to oppose Moses' writings and that no one was to even think that it was His intent to do so. But because "Christians" enjoy their shrimp, pork chops, and lobsters so much, they completely ignore what were very clear words from the Jesus that they claim to love and worship.

Between Jesus clearly stating that no one was to even think that He came to teach contrary to Moses' writings and Lev. 11 clearly stating that eating unclean meat is an abomination, the idea that Paul said it was permissible to eat such things because Jesus died does not hold up under honest scrutiny.

If Protestants and Catholics want to play that kind of game with the Bible, they must also argue that God changed His position on abortion, incest, bestiality, and witchcraft since according to them, Jesus' sacrifice magically made everything permissible.

There is absolutely no biblical precedent for God changing His position on something being an abomination once it was classified as such by God. Anything that He considered to be an abomination in the OT will always be an abomination, and misusing Paul's words for the sake of justifying one's rebellion against what is written in Lev. 11 won't make that any less true.

 

[marks]

"Hypothetical"?

Matthew 24:12-13 KJV plainly tells us there will be saints who allow widespread iniquity to kill their agape cold and dead, leaving them unable to "endure to the end" and be saved, unlike the saint in verse 13 who will be saved.

Isn't iniquity "habitual, deliberate, known, presumptuous sin"?

Yes, hypothetical.

Review your posts. When someone says something, you add another condition. It's a plastic man, you form him to your convenience to support your idea. And what you are doing is using the imagery of the unsaved to describe the saved, it's not real.

Much love!

 

[WalkInLight]

Noone teaches what you just wrote, who is a real born again believer.

Stop making things up, just to Troll the forum because you are of the "OSAS cult" that hates the Grace of God and has re-invented it as "license to sin" just to suit your Gospel of Self Saving Legalism, Phoneman777.

Just to put on the record Hyper Grace believers do believe this and spent a long time showing me exactly how and why they believe this. For them lying, murdering as believers was no problem at all, to any degree.

The strange thing was their emotional ideas had not taken this on board until it was shown that is what they actually believed.
They then spent a long time trying to show me I was a self righteous hypocrite trying to earn my way to heaven.

It taught me that often people know the loving Christ but not the Holy Christ who walks in purity and forgiveness.
And I have a lot of sympathy for the confusion, hurt, loneliness and deception many have lived in most of their church lives.

But to know Jesus is to love and forgive. It is the fruit of the Spirit at work in us. So whatever my position if anyone claims to know Jesus and is full of anger, animosity and hatred, they have yet to know Jesus changing them.

Jesus spoke about figs and grapes which apply here. A true preacher of Christ brings love and life to others, not destruction and tearing them down.

God bless you

 

[marks]

be saints who allow widespread iniquity

Is that so?

I noticed you didn't quote the passage. Is that what it says? Or no?

Much love!

 

[marks]

You didn't differentiate between the actions of Just Man and the actions of the Presumptuous Man, what John calls "sin unto death" and "sin not unto death".

Please do so, and I'll be happy to answer

You didn't check one of my boxes. Why not? You aren't avoiding this are you? I'm asking about you, not someone else. Whomever you may be. Whichever. You can make the distinction to yourself as you answer, the answer is what I'm looking for.

But nevermind, I know you get the point, that's why you didn't check the box. You see yourself as the "Just Man" and therefore your sins are forgiven, even those you will go on to repeat. Is that right? Those sins are OK? You get a "pass"? And if you sin in the future, you know, you can get a "pass" on those too?

Much love!

 

[Behold]

This is a completely dishonest reading of Paul's words, and it has become predictable for adherents of counterfeit Christianity to use these passages as "proof" that Christ abolished the kosher law.

"""The law came by Moses

Grace and TRUTH came by Jesus The Christ"""

If you are born again.... and not just water baptized and religious.... then "you are not under the LAW, you are UNDER GRACE"..

"Jesus has redeemed us from the CURSE of the LAW".

" For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes. ".

 

[Daydreamer]

This is a completely dishonest reading of Paul's words, and it has become predictable for adherents of counterfeit Christianity to use these passages as "proof" that Christ abolished the kosher law.

Christ clearly stated in Matt. 5:17 that He didn't come to oppose Moses' writings and that no one was to even think that it was His intent to do so. But because "Christians" enjoy their shrimp, pork chops, and lobsters so much, they completely ignore what were very clear words from the Jesus that they claim to love and worship.

Between Jesus clearly stating that no one was to even think that He came to teach contrary to Moses' writings and Lev. 11 clearly stating that eating unclean meat is an abomination, the idea that Paul said it was permissible to eat such things because Jesus died does not hold up under honest scrutiny.

If Protestants and Catholics want to play that kind of game with the Bible, they must also argue that God changed His position on abortion, incest, bestiality, and witchcraft since according to them, Jesus' sacrifice magically made everything permissible.

There is absolutely no biblical precedent for God changing His position on something being an abomination once it was classified as such by God. Anything that He considered to be an abomination in the OT will always be an abomination, and misusing Paul's words for the sake of justifying one's rebellion against what is written in Lev. 11 won't make that any less true.

Again Jesus called the crowd to him and said, “Listen to me, everyone, and understand this. 15 Nothing outside a person can defile them by going into them. Rather, it is what comes out of a person that defiles them.”

17 After he had left the crowd and entered the house, his disciples asked him about this parable. 18 “Are you so dull?” he asked. “Don’t you see that nothing that enters a person from the outside can defile them? 19 For it doesn’t go into their heart but into their stomach, and then out of the body.”

20 He went on: “What comes out of a person is what defiles them. 21 For it is from within, out of a person’s heart, that evil thoughts come—sexual immorality, theft, murder, 22 adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. 23 All these evils come from inside and defile a person.” Mark7:14-20

 

[Behold]

Just to put on the record Hyper Grace believers do believe this and spent a long time showing me exactly how and why they believe this. For them lying, murdering as believers was no problem at all, to any degree.

No one but people in the CULT of OSAS, believe that there are real "christians" out there who feel its ok to live carnally.
The only people who would believe this, are people like you who are a part of the lie.

You are implying something that you can't prove.

=There is no VIDEO.
=There is no CHURCH
=There is no Commentary
There are no members on this fourm, who teaches this LIE you are enjoying telling, simply because you have no understanding of :

2 Corinthians 5:19 and 2 Corinthians 5:21

Romans 4:8

 

[Phoneman777]

Well, to begin with, if a person is : Galatians 1:8. This isn't a spiritual status.
So, i appreciate you making up that term to try to sound like some sort of authority, but, seeing that you're anything but this based on your posts, i'll just ignore it.

The thing about you is, i can ask you many questions, and you'll not answer any of them, as you can't.
Instead, you'll just write some half-cocked nonsense about "judgement".

So, here is how the NT judges you.

Are you born again.?
And the reason you can't explain what that means without doing some research, to then try to pretend that you "knew all along", is exactly why a born again believer is authorized to judge you, according to your theological belief system.
That's what i do with you, Phonemann777.

Here are 2 questions for you.
And i'll ask you again, after you ignore them again.

Preaching the Gospel which is based on the whole of Scripture instead of cherry-picked verses doesn't constitute "another gospel", but the "true Gospel", the "everlasting Gospel" of Revelation 14 which I never see you or most others appeal to.

Q.) Do you believe you can lose your Salvation?

Since the Bible gives many examples of this such as Matthew 24:12-13 KJV, 2 Peter 2:20-22 KJV, Matthew 18:26-35 KJV, I absolutely believe the Bible.

Q.) Explain briefly your Salvation.= How does that work ?

Easy: Biblical Salvation as defined in Ephesians 2:8-10 KJV unavoidably leads to the "mind of Christ" as the mindset of those being saved, summed up in His own words:
Luke 22:42 KJV
[42] not My will, but Thine, be done.

Everything else - including the "gospel" of OSAS - is summed up in this:
Ezekiel 13:22 KJV
[22] Because with lies (the OSAS License to Sin) ye have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad; and strengthened the hands of the wicked, that he should not return from his wicked way, by promising him life:

 

[Behold]

Preaching the Gospel which is based on the whole of Scripture instead of cherry-picked verses doesn't constitute hands of the wicked, that he should not return from his wicked way, by promising him life:

As i told you.
You wont answer my question.
You are just like Randy Kluth, who also runs from the question, as he is also a self saving Legalist.

Let me ask you again.

Do you believe you can lose your salvation?


Now....
Ive "cherry picked" nothing.
I teach Pauline Theology, only.
"the simplicity that is in Christ" 'Justified by Faith","without works".....through the Grace of God, who is Christ on the Cross.
= The Gospel of the Grace of God, that Paul refers to as "my Gospel".

So, as i said, there is a OSAS cult that teaches that the Grace of God, is License to sin.
You are a member.

What is pathetic about this membership, is that not only is it Cross Denying, but its based on what can't be proven.

I just showed you a Thread, i wrote, that deals with the sinning, backsliding, dead faith, carnal Christian.
They dont get a free ride, fella.
And as i just asked another OSAS cultist.......where are these people who believe thy have a license to sin?
They are not on this forum.
There is no Church that teaches this garbage.
There are no Youtube Videos that teach, "live like the devil, you have God's Grace".
There are no commentaries.
So, Where do they exist?
= ONLY IN the warped mind and out of the mouth of a Grace denying, Cross rejecting, heretic......is where this CULTISH deception exists.

 

[Phoneman777]

No born again believer, believes that you can escape punishment on earth for living in carnality, willingly, knowingly, and intentionally.

You sure are in the habit of judging who is and aint' born again, friend. Were there not born again people who didn't believe the Holy Spirit was real until Paul came along and told them?

Let's at least agree there will be many OSAS believers who will be in the kingdom because their love of God and total dependance on Jesus was identical to the same love and dependance of Conditional Salvationists, can we?

 

[Phoneman777]

As i told you.
You wont answer my question.
You are just like Randy Kluth, who also runs from the question, as he is also a self saving Legalist.

Let me ask you again.

Do you believe you can lose your salvation?


Now....
Ive "cherry picked" nothing.
I teach Pauline Theology, only.
"the simplicity that is in Christ" 'Justified by Faith","without works".....through the Grace of God, who is Christ on the Cross.
= The Gospel of the Grace of God, that Paul refers to as "my Gospel".

So, as i said, there is a OSAS cult that teaches that the Grace of God, is License to sin.
You are a member.

What is pathetic about this membership, is that not only is it Cross Denying, but its based on what can't be proven.

I just showed you a Thread, i wrote, that deals with the sinning, backsliding, dead faith, carnal Christian.
They dont get a free ride, fella.
And as i just asked another OSAS cultist.......where are these people who believe thy have a license to sin?
They are not on this forum.
There is no Church that teaches this garbage.
There are no Youtube Videos that teach, "live like the devil, you have God's Grace".
There are no commentaries.
So, Where do they exist?
= ONLY IN the warped mind and out of the mouth of a Grace denying, Cross rejecting, heretic......is where this CULTISH deception exists.

I answered your question in post #71. I've never heard of Randy Kluth and I don't run from other's spiritual propositions, especially those like yours which are easily refuted.

 

[Behold]

You sure are in the habit of judging who is and aint' born again, friend?

Ive not said anything about who is born again, or who isn't.
So, you must be making that up ?? or maybe you have me confused with Marks?

Regarding you, i have no idea if you are born again.
I only read your posts, and they dont provide any evidence that you understand the Blood Atonement, or the Grace of God, as the "Gift of Salvation".

 

[Behold]

I answered your question in post #71. I've never heard of Randy Kluth and I don't run from other's spiritual propositions, especially those like yours which are easily refuted.

You posted a verse that is talking about enduring to the end of the Tribulation.
So thats another theological fail.
And next you posted a symbolic verse that talks about being a "servant"....while Jesus said, """"i no longer call you a servant, i call you a FRIEND"".
= when talking to BELIEVERS

So, according to your 2 misunderstood verses, you are a old testament jew, a servant, not born again., yet im pretty certain that you've never even been to Israel.
I have a home in Israel.....

Did you want to try for Strike 3, Phoneman777?
No doubt you'll give it a swing, and i'll call you out.

 

[Phoneman777]

You didn't check one of my boxes. Why not? You aren't avoiding this are you? I'm asking about you, not someone else. Whomever you may be. Whichever. You can make the distinction to yourself as you answer, the answer is what I'm looking for.

But nevermind, I know you get the point, that's why you didn't check the box. You see yourself as the "Just Man" and therefore your sins are forgiven, even those you will go on to repeat. Is that right? Those sins are OK? You get a "pass"? And if you sin in the future, you know, you can get a "pass" on those too?

Much love!

Didn't check any boxes because you didn't differentiate what kind of "sin" to which your questions are referring: those of the Just Man or those of the Presumptuous Man - please do so and then re-submit the request.

 

[Phoneman777]

As i told you.
You wont answer my question.
You are just like Randy Kluth, who also runs from the question, as he is also a self saving Legalist.

Let me ask you again.

Do you believe you can lose your salvation?


Now....
Ive "cherry picked" nothing.
I teach Pauline Theology, only.
"the simplicity that is in Christ" 'Justified by Faith","without works".....through the Grace of God, who is Christ on the Cross.
= The Gospel of the Grace of God, that Paul refers to as "my Gospel".

So, as i said, there is a OSAS cult that teaches that the Grace of God, is License to sin.
You are a member.

What is pathetic about this membership, is that not only is it Cross Denying, but its based on what can't be proven.

I just showed you a Thread, i wrote, that deals with the sinning, backsliding, dead faith, carnal Christian.
They dont get a free ride, fella.
And as i just asked another OSAS cultist.......where are these people who believe thy have a license to sin?
They are not on this forum.
There is no Church that teaches this garbage.
There are no Youtube Videos that teach, "live like the devil, you have God's Grace".
There are no commentaries.
So, Where do they exist?
= ONLY IN the warped mind and out of the mouth of a Grace denying, Cross rejecting, heretic......is where this CULTISH deception exists.

A Christian "cult" is one who claims to follow Christ, but deviates from His teachings and example, right?

 

[marks]

Didn't check any boxes because you didn't differentiate what kind of "sin" to which your questions are referring: those of the Just Man or those of the Presumptuous Man - please do so and then re-submit the request.

Like I said . . . parsing sins. If I I call it "sins from the Just Man", then you agree? But really, sins committed in righteousness? That doesn't sound right to me. Sin is sin. All sin is unrighteousness.

Or another way to say it . . . You approve of your attitude, so you consider your sins forgiven.

Much love!

 

[Phoneman777]

Ive not said anything about who is born again, or who isn't.
So, you must be making that up ?? or maybe you have me confused with Marks?

You mentioned it in post 33 then again in post 60. C'mon, us old guys are supposed to be the ones with foggy memories, not you young whippersnappers