"All things are lawful..."

[Phoneman777]

Among other things...Your "historicism" left out :2 Thessalonians 1:8

Happens at the Second Coming, but is not the "full end" of the Earth mentioned in Jeremiah 4:23-28 KJV, because the wicked have to take a remaining 1,000 year dirt nap.

2 Thessalonians 1:9

This is after the 1,000 years, when the wicked are resurrected and finally meet their "full end" and "affliction shall not rise up the second time" which is prophesied in Nahum 1:9 KJV

 

[Phoneman777]

You've failed every verse test ive given you since we first started talking, weeks ago.
So, you are self defined by your own "test result", Phoneman777

You are a self saving Legalist, according to your posts.
What is that?
That is a person who SAYS they trust in Christ, however, they then deny it by saying...>"but i dont trust Him to KEEP me saved".

That is you....>"""i can lose my salvation"..

See it yet?
Take a good look, as YOU called your own self out.
You revealed you.
All i did was ask you to do it, for the sake of the True Believers on this forum, and you did.

Like I said, there are some who get angry with those who pass while refusing to do so themselves...

 

[Phoneman777]

A different interpretation does not change the meaning of the possible offence of eating what was dedicated to idols. Indeed, "unclean" is a fine definition for what is not of God as in the case of idols.

Sure it does - if we choose "unclean", pork and shellfish are on the menu...if we choose "common", Paul's dealing with the debate over "things sacrificed to idols". Isn't it enough to know that the Dept. of the Navy, due to widespread sickness among stranded WWII sailors, commissioned the writing of a handbook to show what marine life was and was not fit fare, only to have the experts conclude "just tell the men if it has fins and scales, it's probably safe to eat"???

It is not that I disagree with your OP. But if I have heard the objections to your OP correctly, it is rather the accusatory or preachy tone. Perhaps we are all guilty of the same.

I try to read other's posts with a neutral head voice so as to avoid developing negative feelings toward others, and it helps me to maintain a Christlike demeanor

 

[Behold]

Happens at the Second Coming, but is not the "full end" of the Earth mentioned in Jeremiah 4:23-28 KJV, because the wicked have to take a remaining 1,000 year dirt nap.
This is after the 1,000 years, when the wicked are resurrected and finally meet their "full end" and "affliction shall not rise up the second time" which is prophesied in Nahum 1:9 KJV

thats ok.
You have been led so far away from Paul and basic end time theology.

You just look the other way and leave out the Anti-Christ, the abomination of desolation, the 144,000 preaching Jews, the mark of the beast, and a few more.

Blame your cult as they also left it out.

 

[Phoneman777]

Declaring yourself "the innocent" isn't to you presumption? You by your own opinions separate yourself from those whom you condemn. As you paint Christians in non-Christian colors.

This just doesn't fly.

But I'll say this . . . if you aren't different then you were before, I'd wonder why you think yourself "born again". Because if you are born again, this means God has changed you.

Much love!

The Bible is what declares us to be a Just Man or a Presumptuous Man - don't assume you are, take the test and find out if you are! Hope you get a passing grade!

 

[Behold]

Like I said, there are some who get angry with those who pass while refusing to do so themselves...

Look in the mirror.
You are the man.
Your posts are the proof that you are this... Luke 11:35

 

[Phoneman777]

So, again, your opinion is your God, and you can't prove anything you say.
You are one of those people who lays down the accusation, then ties it to a verse or 2 that are not connected to it, and then you say "see there, proved it".

Honestly, Forums are harmed because so many like this, are allowed to stay on them.
Thats a fact.

Listen up.

A heretic takes the Gospel of the Grace of God, and declares...>"this Gospel of Grace is promoting sinning and enjoying it".

JUDE teaches that these people, are Pharisees, and Paul declares them to be : Galatians 1:8, and "Heretics", in Titus 3.

And as i told you...There is no preacher, legit, especially those on your list, save the one im not familiar with, ......but the others, would never teach, imply, suggest, or encourage any theology that suggests that a believer can use the Grace of God, to live willfully sinfully.
NEVER.
NOT EVER. !

Paul addresses this Cult idea you are teaching......He says.....(my paraphase.....so that you can see the verse..)

"Now that you know that Jesus became your sin, and you became God's Righteousness, do not use this GRACE OF GOD, this LIBERTY found in Christ's redemption freely given to you as the GIFT of SALVATiON, as your means to choose to be carnal......never do this.""

Galatians 5:13

See that verse, Phoneman777?
That is Paul, that is me, that is Adrian Rogers, that is, Charles Stanley, David Jeremiah, Lloyd Ogilvie, and James Kennedy, Joseph Prince, and any other Pauline Theologist who Literally understands the Cross of Christ.

Here is the reality...
The more you understand the Grace of God, as the eternal forgiveness and eternal security that is found "In Christ", the more you want to live HOLY.
That is how the Grace of God affects the True Believer's Heart.
its the Heretics who screech about "license" who are found always talking about sin, repenting of their sin, confessing sin, and trying to not sin.
Why? Because they know not the Grace of God, and their Legalism keeps them under the curse of the Law.
= "the LAW is the POWER OF SIN"., Phoneman777

I don't write long, drawn out responses (at least, rarely) and I usually don't read them...if you can't make your point in a few sentences, it's best to stick to one topic or verse analysis.

So, care to try again?

 

[Behold]

The Bible is what declares us to be a Just Man or a Presumptuous Man -

Actually its the Cross of Christ that declares we are "JUSTIFIED".
The only "Just" the only "righteous" are those who have been "made righteous" by the "Gift of Righteousness" that is the Blood Atonement having been applied to a BELIEVER by God, through their Faith.
Proof of their Righteousness ???

= Born again

 

[Phoneman777]

thats ok.
You have been led so far away from Paul and basic end time theology.

You just look the other way and leave out the Anti-Christ, the abomination of desolation, the 144,000 preaching Jews, the mark of the beast, and a few more.

Blame your cult as they also left it out.

Bro, I assure you, I'm well versed in the truth of Historicism, as well as the error or your Jesuit Futurism. Here's a bit of advice: since Jesus said in the last days deception would be served up morning, noon, and night, we have to be on the lookout for deception in our midst.

 

[Behold]

I don't write long, drawn out responses

Honestly, it wont matter if you wrote a book., Phoneman777
Its the same self saving Legalism, on every page, in every post.
Its who you are, its what you are, as defined by your next 40 posts.

You do not trust that Christ keeps you saved.
So who is left?

Who is left?, if you don't trust in Christ to KEEP YOU SAVED?

A.) YOU = self saver ...
A.) Legalism

 

[Behold]

Bro, I assure you, I'm well versed in the truth of Historicism,

But you are un-versed... non-versed in Pauline Theology.
So, anything else, is a fail.
Total.

See, nothing else matters regarding THEOLOGY, except for the BIBLE and Paul teaching it as New Testament DOCTRINE.
This is the firm foundation, this is the center of TRUE Theology.
You are not associated with this, at all, as your posts will continue to prove, Phoneman777.

 

[Phoneman777]

Look in the mirror.
You are the man.
Your posts are the proof that you are this... Luke 11:35

I don't get angry with those in error, I feel sorry for them. That's why I bear long with you, friend! I don't want you taking the Mark of the Beast because you've fallen into the trap of thinking you've identified what is the Beast's Mark without first identifying the Beast!

....kinda like trying to identify my car that's parked in my driveway without first finding out where I live

 

[Phoneman777]

Actually its the Cross of Christ that declares we are "JUSTIFIED".
The only "Just" the only "righteous" are those who have been "made righteous" by the "Gift of Righteousness" that is the Blood Atonement having been applied to a BELIEVER by God, through their Faith.
Proof of their Righteousness ???

= Born again

"The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked. Who can know it" says the prophet Jeremiah. Take the test! I hope you pass!

 

[Phoneman777]

Honestly, it wont matter if you wrote a book., Phoneman777
Its the same self saving Legalism, on every page, in every post.
Its who you are, its what you are, as defined by your next 40 posts.

You do not trust that Christ keeps you saved.
So who is left?

Who is left?, if you don't trust in Christ to KEEP YOU SAVED?

A.) YOU = self saver ...
A.) Legalism

There are TWO ditches on either side of the Path of the Just, the Left Ditch of License (to Sin) and the Right Ditch of Legalism.

It does no good for you who've fallen into the Left side to shout angrily across the road at those who've fallen in the Right side, because you end up looking silly to those of us who maintain our walk in the middle of the road, friend

 

[ScottA]

Sure it does - if we choose "unclean", pork and shellfish are on the menu...if we choose "common", Paul's dealing with the debate over "things sacrificed to idols". Isn't it enough to know that the Dept. of the Navy, due to widespread sickness among stranded WWII sailors, commissioned the writing of a handbook to show what marine life was and was not fit fare, only to have the experts conclude "just tell the men if it has fins and scales, it's probably safe to eat"???

That, however, misses the point of the problem with idols.

That point being that it is against God--a sin against God; and although there is no power in such that one should be fearful, the danger is in leading others to believe what is not true. Which if it had been stated as "common", it would not be error to elaborate it as an "unclean" matter before a perfect and jealous God. The different use of words, is simply a mute point. It's semantics and of no value to the message to point out.

I dare say, I should think that semantics was not your intended Original Point.

 

[Phoneman777]

But you are un-versed... non-versed in Pauline Theology.

Paul says the Rapture and the Second Coming are simultaneous, yet you believe in the Jesuit Futurist idea of a 7 year tribulation where the saints are up there, the Jews are down here, right? Where goes your "Pauline doctrine" now?

And, I'd still like to have you explain how 2 Peter 3:10-11 KJV and Revelation 16:15 KJV fit in your Jesuit Futurist eschatological model when these teach that when Jesus comes with fire to collect the saints "as a thief in the night" there won't be 7 more minutes of life on Earth left, let alone 7 more years? Something worth considering, don't you think?

 

[Phoneman777]

That, however, misses the point of the problem with idols.

That point being that it is against God--a sin against God; and although there is no power in such that one should be fearful, the danger is in leading others to believe what is not true. Which if it had been stated as "common", it would not be error to elaborate it as an "unclean" matter before a perfect and jealous God. The different use of words, is simply a mute point. It's semantics and of no value to the message to point out.

I dare say, I should think that semantics was not your intended Original Point.

We've got to remember that Catholicism had century after century to confuse the minds of the people so that even during the Reformation certain translations of words were chosen as to what seemed best at the time.

For instance, Hebrews 4:9 KJV plainly says "SABBATISMOS" which even a blind man can see can refers to none other that the 7th day Sabbath of the 4th commandment...yet due to Catholicism's erasure of the Sabbath and replacement with Sunday, what word did the KJV translators choose? "Rest" .... because the Sabbath had been covered over by centuries of false Sunday sacredness.

Same with "unclean/common" - which is understandable, because false religion has "put no difference between the holy and the profane" since the time of Israel, as did Catholicism

 

[ScottA]

We've got to remember that Catholicism had century after century to confuse the minds of the people so that even during the Reformation certain translations of words were chosen as to what seemed best at the time.

For instance, Hebrews 4:9 KJV plainly says "SABBATISMOS" which even a blind man can see can refers to none other that the 7th day Sabbath of the 4th commandment...yet due to Catholicism's erasure of the Sabbath and replacement with Sunday, what word did the KJV translators choose? "Rest" .... because the Sabbath had been covered over by centuries of false Sunday sacredness.

Same with "unclean/common" - which is understandable, because false religion has "put no difference between the holy and the profane" since the time of Israel, as did Catholicism

Certainly there have been false teachings. But the answer and solution are not to be found in the use of language--that language that God intentionally confounded at Babel. It is in the Spirit: Spirit and truth.

But, putting that aside...this is a bigger issue, not that "all things are lawful", but rather that apostacy was foretold.

 

[WalkInLight]

No one but people in the CULT of OSAS, believe that there are real "christians" out there who feel its ok to live carnally.
The only people who would believe this, are people like you who are a part of the lie.

You are implying something that you can't prove.

=There is no VIDEO.
=There is no CHURCH
=There is no Commentary
There are no members on this fourm, who teaches this LIE you are enjoying telling, simply because you have no understanding of :

2 Corinthians 5:19 and 2 Corinthians 5:21

Romans 4:8

Do you know of Joseph Prince from Singapore? On one forum around 50% of the members liked what he preached and said.
I am not here to judge who knows the Lord and who does not, so I am just testifying this group is alive in the christian church.

I do not know people on this forum so would not say about the representation here of this group.
And why would I lie? It is a common theme of such groups is they accuse others of lying. One principle of following Jesus is just speaking the truth and letting others decide.

This is all I was commenting on, not my understanding of the verses you quote

19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. 2 Cor 5:19

21 God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.
2 Cor 5:21

7 Blessed are they whose transgressions are forgiven, whose sins are covered.
Rom 4:7

Amen. Now I think you have me confused with someone else, because I am lost as to your point.
But anyway my friend

God bless you

 

[WalkInLight]

This is a completely dishonest reading of Paul's words, and it has become predictable for adherents of counterfeit Christianity to use these passages as "proof" that Christ abolished the kosher law.

Christ clearly stated in Matt. 5:17 that He didn't come to oppose Moses' writings and that no one was to even think that it was His intent to do so. But because "Christians" enjoy their shrimp, pork chops, and lobsters so much, they completely ignore what were very clear words from the Jesus that they claim to love and worship.

Between Jesus clearly stating that no one was to even think that He came to teach contrary to Moses' writings and Lev. 11 clearly stating that eating unclean meat is an abomination, the idea that Paul said it was permissible to eat such things because Jesus died does not hold up under honest scrutiny.

If Protestants and Catholics want to play that kind of game with the Bible, they must also argue that God changed His position on abortion, incest, bestiality, and witchcraft since according to them, Jesus' sacrifice magically made everything permissible.

There is absolutely no biblical precedent for God changing His position on something being an abomination once it was classified as such by God. Anything that He considered to be an abomination in the OT will always be an abomination, and misusing Paul's words for the sake of justifying one's rebellion against what is written in Lev. 11 won't make that any less true.

Do you want christians to eat Kosha?
The apostles in acts do not agree with you.
Their discussion about gentiles upon whom the Holy Spirit fell where blessed by God but not clean in the ceremonial or food ways.
The dream Peter had about what God had made clean is not clean, was taken to mean all the identifying symbols of being Jewish were not gone.
Paul argued about the Sabbath being something of personal preference, rather than obligation. He went so far as to say food sacrificed to idols was actually just food as the idols were just pieces of stone, so it did not matter.

This is the position of the church since that time, so it is simple and plainly not dishonest or a lie.
If you personally want to eat Kosher, thats fine, but Paul teaches we are under no obligations in this regard.
Paul says simple love is the fulfilment of the law, so walking in love is obeying the commandments.
As a Pharisee, one of the most legalistic who wanted to kill christians before his encounter with Jesus, he is 100% the right person to set people free from Jewish traditions and practices.

God bless you