"All things are lawful..."

[Phoneman777]

You posted a verse that is talking about enduring to the end of the Tribulation.
So thats another theological fail.
And next you posted a symbolic verse that talks about being a "servant"....while Jesus said, """"i no longer call you a servant, i call you a FRIEND"".
= when talking to BELIEVERS

So, according to your 2 misunderstood verses, you are a old testament jew, a servant, not born again., yet im pretty certain that you've never even been to Israel.
I have a home in Israel.....

Did you want to try for Strike 3, Phoneman777?
No doubt you'll give it a swing, and i'll call you out.

Since there's no such thing as a "7 year tribulation after the church is taken to heaven", Matthew 24:12-13 KJV is very much referring to the church.

You do realize that when Jesus comes as a "thief in the night", 2 Peter 3:10-11 KJV says the world is not going to support life for 7 more minutes, let alone 7 more years, right?

 

[Phoneman777]

Like I said . . . parsing sins. If I I call it "sins from the Just Man", then you agree? But really, sins committed in righteousness? That doesn't sound right to me. Sin is sin. All sin is unrighteousness.

Or another way to say it . . . You approve of your attitude, so you consider your sins forgiven.

Much love!

The Bible clearly differentiates between the Just Man falling down but rising again and the Presumptuous Man who is guilty of "the great transgression".

Can you recognize the difference between an innocent man standing "Just" before God while another stands not "innocent of the great transgression" of Presumption?

 

[Behold]

You mentioned it in post 33 then again in post 60. C'mon, us old guys are supposed to be the ones with foggy memories, not you young whippersnappers

So, shifting from the first topic we were discussing, which deals with judging others, that turned into the cult of OSAS and who is in it..
I can see why you would be confused, as you are of an age where you don't seem to realize that we changed topics.....
We did.

And as i told you... You are able to carnally insinuate that there are "these believers who live in sin while talking about Grace'< yet you just like the rest of the OSAS Cult can't proved a name, a preacher, a forum member, a youtube video, or a commentary that is written by one of these "license to sin" people that you rant about as your only real topic and only religion.

Now, Let me show you something about heretics.
Here is something that defines them...

Heretics LIVE......in Matthew, James, and Hebrews.
So, if you find yourself dealing with someone who not only can't understand anything contextually in those epistles, you'll note that these 3 Epistles are their cult's training ground, that trained them

 

[Behold]

Since there's no such thing as a "7 year tribulation after the church is taken to heaven",

Im not familiar with the Cult that teaches that there is no Great Tribulation.
But being that you are a member, as defined now by your own post, can you name for the real believer here, the name of your Cult?

So, if what your Cult teaches is true, then there is no Anti-Christ, no "mark of the Beast", no "abomination of desolation", and no 2nd Advent whereby Christ comes back to do this....
2 Thessalonians 1:8-9

8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

 

[Phoneman777]

So, shifting from the first topic we were discussing, which deals with judging others, that turned into the cult of OSAS and who is in it..
I can see why you would be confused, as you are of an age where you don't seem to realize that we changed topics.....
We did.

And as i told you... You are able to carnally insinuate that there are "these believers who live in sin while talking about Grace'< yet you just like the rest of the OSAS Cult can't proved a name, a preacher, a forum member, a youtube video, or a commentary that is written by one of these "license to sin" people that you rant about as your only real topic and only religion.

Now, Let me show you something about heretics.
Here is something that defines them...

Heretics LIVE......in Matthew, James, and Hebrews.
So, if you find yourself dealing with someone who not only can't understand anything contextually in those epistles, you'll note that these 3 Epistles are their cult's training ground, that trained them

I've pointed out several high profile people who preach OSAS: Charles Stanley, Adrian Rogers, J. Vernon Magee, David Jeremiah...good gravy, man, I'm trying to help you but your ignorance and your arrogance are an almost impenetrable barrier!

David Jeremiah says "While we can never lose our salvation, we can lose the joy of it". Now, that's some supersonic bulldookey if there ever was any

 

[Behold]

You do realize that when Jesus comes as a "thief in the night",

To judge the unbelievers, that's true.

And also, it is a unknown date of arrival regarding the Rapture.

 

[marks]

The Bible clearly differentiates between the Just Man falling down but rising again and the Presumptuous Man who is guilty of "the great transgression".

Can you recognize the difference between an innocent man standing "Just" before God while another stands not "innocent of the great transgression" of Presumption?

Isn't approving of yourself, thinking that since you have the "right" attitude about your sin, that it's to be forgiven, isn't that presumptuous to you?

What makes one "sinner" to be "innocent" and other "presumptuous"? It seems to me that this hinges on self-identification that you are of "the right sort" for your sins to not count. "I've sinned, but I'm sorry . . . not like that man over there!" You make the tax collector sound like the Pharisee.

Don't worry about checking a box, I know you will avoid it, because you don't what to sound like the thing you are condemning.

Much love!

 

[Behold]

I've pointed out several high profile people who preach OSAS: Charles Stanley, Adrian Rogers, J. Vernon Magee, David Jeremiah...good gravy, man, I'm trying to help you but your ignorance and your arrogance are an almost impenetrable barrier!
David Jeremiah says "While we can never lose our salvation, we can lose the joy of it". Now, that's some supersonic bulldookey if there ever was any

I can't speak for J Veron, as im familar with his theology.

However..None of those others preachers in your Cult's list, teach that Grace is a license to sin.
So, you were lied to, and now you do the lying for them.
Everyone one of them teaches "present your body a living Sacrifice"... and "take up your Cross and deny yourself'.

So, your cult, lied to you... and thats a fact.

Those men are aware of this verse.

Jesus speaking..."All that believe in me, i give unto them Eternal life and these born again, shall NEVER PERISH".

"never perish", = Eternal Security, but not a license to sin., as that is the LIE you teach., as you were taught it by your cult.

Also those men read this NT verse.. written by PAUL

"God, who started salvation, in the born again, will HIMSELF be FAITHFUL...TO....complete it".

See that?
God's completes the Salvation of ALL the born again, right through them getting the New body and finishing with..."conformed into the image of Christ".

All of those Preachers other then the one i listed, teach Holiness, but they dont teach, trying to stay saved by self effort, or commandments, as that would be the Devil's lie that denies the Cross of Christ, Phonemann77

 

[Phoneman777]

Im not familiar with the Cult that teaches that there is no Great Tribulation.

I believe in a coming "time of trouble" which the church will have to endure.

But being that you are a member, as defined now by your own post, can you name for the real believer here, the name of your Cult? So, if what your Cult teaches is true, then there is no Anti-Christ, no "mark of the Beast", no "abomination of desolation", and no 2nd Advent whereby Christ comes back to do this....

Of course, I believe in all those things - my eschatological beliefs are those of the Bible: Historicism. I have no choice, because Futurism and Preterism were unknown to the world until Jesuit priests began interpreting passages of Scripture to refer to these two heresies.

 

[Behold]

A Christian "cult" is one who claims to follow Christ, but deviates from His teachings and example, right?

No.

They deviate from Paul's Gospel, and they are defined by Paul as this... "Galatians 1:8".

 

[Phoneman777]

To judge the unbelievers, that's true.

And also, it is a unknown date of arrival regarding the Rapture.

The coming of Jesus IS the time of the Rapture, when the dead saints are resurrected and rise to meet Him in the air, followed by the living saints.

The Lord descends in fiery glory, majesty, and with a shout and trumpet that will shake the Earth to its foundations at His Second Coming, at which time the Rapture takes place simultaneously.

 

[Behold]

I believe in a coming "time of trouble" which the church will have to endure.

The "body of Christ" has been having "in this world you will have Tribulation", since before Jesus was nailed to the Tree.
Where have you been?

But the GREAT Trib, is not for the BRIDE, its for the unbelievers, "who know not GOD and do not obey the GOSPEL".

The GOSPEL< is Paul's... So, what is left down here, after those who DID OBEY IT, and are raptured, are going through the Great Tribulation.

2 Thessalonians 1:8

2 Thessalonians 1:9

 

[Phoneman777]

Isn't approving of yourself, thinking that since you have the "right" attitude about your sin, that it's to be forgiven, isn't that presumptuous to you?

What makes one "sinner" to be "innocent" and other "presumptuous"? It seems to me that this hinges on self-identification that you are of "the right sort" for your sins to not count. "I've sinned, but I'm sorry . . . not like that man over there!" You make the tax collector sound like the Pharisee.

Don't worry about checking a box, I know you will avoid it, because you don't what to sound like the thing you are condemning.

Much love!

The Bible gives us a test to see if we truly know and love God and love our neighbors: is it presumption to take the test and get a passing grade?

But, there's a problem: some take the test and fail - therefore, they either deny the existence of the test, or they accuse those who pass it, rather than going back and reviewing the lessons, then taking the test over until they too get a passing grade.

 

[Behold]

The coming of Jesus IS the time of the Rapture, when the dead saints are resurrected and rise to meet Him in the air, followed by the living saints.
The Lord descends in fiery glory, majesty, and with a shout and trumpet that will shake the Earth to its foundations at His Second Coming, at which time the Rapture takes place simultaneously.

Among other things...Your "historicism" left out :

2 Thessalonians 1:8

2 Thessalonians 1:9

 

[Behold]

But, there's a problem: some take the test and fail - therefore, they either deny the existence of the test, or they accuse those who pass it, rather than going back and reviewing the lessons, then taking the test over until they too get a passing grade.

You've failed every verse test ive given you since we first started talking, weeks ago.
So, you are self defined by your own "test result", Phoneman777

You are a self saving Legalist, according to your posts.
What is that?
That is a person who SAYS they trust in Christ, however, they then deny it by saying...>"but i dont trust Him to KEEP me saved".

That is you....>"""i can lose my salvation"..

See it yet?
Take a good look, as YOU called your own self out.
You revealed you.
All i did was ask you to do it, for the sake of the True Believers on this forum, and you did.

 

[ScottA]

In the original, the word is not "unclean" but "common", a classification invented by the Jewish leaders. Paul is saying he doesn't believe anything is "common" but still says we ought to respect the opinions of those who do.
Do not destroy with your food him who Christ died. Do not let what is for you a good thing(that when you were yet in weakness and without strength, Christ died that you be made strong) do not let what is for you a good thing, be spoken evil against.

A different interpretation does not change the meaning of the possible offence of eating what was dedicated to idols. Indeed, "unclean" is a fine definition for what is not of God as in the case of idols.

It is not that I disagree with your OP. But if I have heard the objections to your OP correctly, it is rather the accusatory or preachy tone. Perhaps we are all guilty of the same.

 

[marks]

Can you recognize the difference between an innocent man standing "Just" before God while another stands not "innocent of the great transgression" of Presumption?

Declaring yourself "the innocent" isn't to you presumption? You by your own opinions separate yourself from those whom you condemn. As you paint Christians in non-Christian colors.

This just doesn't fly.

But I'll say this . . . if you aren't different then you were before, I'd wonder why you think yourself "born again". Because if you are born again, this means God has changed you.

Much love!

 

[Phoneman777]

I can't speak for J Veron, as im familar with his theology.

However..None of those others preachers in your Cult's list, teach that Grace is a license to sin.
So, you were lied to, and now you do the lying for them.
Everyone one of them teaches "present your body a living Sacrifice"... and "take up your Cross and deny yourself'.

So, your cult, lied to you... and thats a fact.

Those men are aware of this verse.

Jesus speaking..."All that believe in me, i give unto them Eternal life and these born again, shall NEVER PERISH".

"never perish", = Eternal Security, but not a license to sin., as that is the LIE you teach., as you were taught it by your cult.

Also those men read this NT verse.. written by PAUL

"God, who started salvation, in the born again, will HIMSELF be FAITHFUL...TO....complete it".

See that?
God's completes the Salvation of ALL the born again, right through them getting the New body and finishing with..."conformed into the image of Christ".

All of those Preachers other then the one i listed, teach Holiness, but they dont teach, trying to stay saved by self effort, or commandments, as that would be the Devil's lie that denies the Cross of Christ, Phonemann77

Stop being naive, friend. We all know full well no preacher is going to come out and plainly say, "Hey guys, grace means you can sin all you want!" (although some in the ultra-hyper grace crowd have done that)....

Charles Stanley says, "Christians who sin still get the blessing of heaven, but why do that and miss out on the blessing God has for us now?"

Adrian Rogers says the Christian can't lose his salvation but will lose jewels in their crown.

David Jeremiah says the Christian who sins can't lose salvation but will suffer a loss of the joy of it.

A blind man can see these, like you, have turned the grace of God into a License to Sin by the preaching of this OSAS nonsense!

 

[Phoneman777]

The "body of Christ" has been having "in this world you will have Tribulation", since before Jesus was nailed to the Tree.
Where have you been?

But the GREAT Trib, is not for the BRIDE, its for the unbelievers, "who know not GOD and do not obey the GOSPEL".

The GOSPEL< is Paul's... So, what is left down here, after those who DID OBEY IT, and are raptured, are going through the Great Tribulation.

2 Thessalonians 1:8

2 Thessalonians 1:9

Did you ever read where it says 2 Peter 3:10-11 KJV that when the "day of the Lord" comes as a "thief in the night" - which is the Second Coming, according to Jesus' own words in Revelation 16:15 KJV - the Earth won't be able to support life for 7 more minutes, let alone "7 last years of tribulation"?

Didn't they teach you that in prophecy school? No, they taught you JESUIT FUTURISM.

 

[Behold]

Stop being naive, friend. We all know full well no preacher is going to come out and plainly say, "Hey guys, grace means you can sin all you want!" (although some in the ultra-hyper grace crowd have done that)....

So, again, your opinion is your God, and you can't prove anything you say.
You are one of those people who lays down the accusation, then ties it to a verse or 2 that are not connected to it, and then you say "see there, proved it".

Honestly, Forums are harmed because so many like this, are allowed to stay on them.
Thats a fact.

Listen up.

A heretic takes the Gospel of the Grace of God, and declares...>"this Gospel of Grace is promoting sinning and enjoying it".

JUDE teaches that these people, are Pharisees, and Paul declares them to be : Galatians 1:8, and "Heretics", in Titus 3.

And as i told you...There is no preacher, legit, especially those on your list, save the one im not familiar with, ......but the others, would never teach, imply, suggest, or encourage any theology that suggests that a believer can use the Grace of God, to live willfully sinfully.
NEVER.
NOT EVER. !

Paul addresses this Cult idea you are teaching......He says.....(my paraphase.....so that you can see the verse..)

"Now that you know that Jesus became your sin, and you became God's Righteousness, do not use this GRACE OF GOD, this LIBERTY found in Christ's redemption freely given to you as the GIFT of SALVATiON, as your means to choose to be carnal......never do this.""

Galatians 5:13

See that verse, Phoneman777?
That is Paul, that is me, that is Adrian Rogers, that is, Charles Stanley, David Jeremiah, Lloyd Ogilvie, and James Kennedy, Joseph Prince, and any other Pauline Theologist who Literally understands the Cross of Christ.

Here is the reality...
The more you understand the Grace of God, as the eternal forgiveness and eternal security that is found "In Christ", the more you want to live HOLY.
That is how the Grace of God affects the True Believer's Heart.
its the Heretics who screech about "license" who are found always talking about sin, repenting of their sin, confessing sin, and trying to not sin.
Why? Because they know not the Grace of God, and their Legalism keeps them under the curse of the Law.
= "the LAW is the POWER OF SIN"., Phoneman777