You guys and your "sin nature". That term or phrase is not found in scripture. It is jargon constructed to make it seem like the theology that you are promoting is correct, when in fact it is not.
Am I the only one on the planet who understands Romans 7?
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Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Yes the bible does talk about Jewish believers and Gentile believers. Ephesians, Romans, Matt. Acts .
So because you do not understand the words sinless perfection when put in a phrase let me rephrase it. Do you sin anymore? Do you still commit any sins in thought word or deed.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
We are grated in by God, when we have been Born of the Spirit.
No one can be Born Again without believing in the name of Jesus..then we must be Born of the Spirit..that’s an act of God and not of man.
Look at the chapter. It gives those definitions. I'm sure we can both find preachers for and against, but the Bible says a certain thing.
Much love!
Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
This wasn't a letter to the Jews. It's called Romans. I am sure there were some Jews there, but by now, 30 years after Jesus death and resurrection, people were familiar with why he died, what the Law was, from which we learn what sin is.
Here is a much better commentary on the gist of Romans 7, specifically vs. 15-20 ...
By Charles Spurgeon
[Romans 7:15. For what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
This is a strange contradiction, — a man who has grace enough to will to do good, and yet does it not. There are two men in the one man, — the new nature struggling against the old nature. This must be a renewed man who talks in this fashion, or else he could not say that he hated sin; yet there must be a part of him still imperfect, or else he would not do that which he hates.
Romans 7:16. If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
“If I do that against which my conscience rebels, so far, the better part of me owns the goodness of the law, though the baser part of me rebels against it.”
Romans 7:17. Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
The renewed man still stands out against sin. His heart is not wishful to sin, but that old nature within him will sin even to the end.
Romans 7:18-19. For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Oh, how often have men, who have been struggling after holiness, had to use these words of the apostle! The more holy they become, the more they realize that there is still a something better beyond them, after which they struggle, but to which they cannot yet attain; so still they cry, “The good that we would we do not: but the evil which we would not, that we do.”
Romans 7:20. Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
The true man — the newborn man — is struggling after that which is right. The real “I “, the immortal “ego”, is still pressing forward, like a ship beating up against wind and tide, and striving to reach the harbor where it shall find perfect rest. Oh, what struggles, what contentions, what rightings, there are within the men and women in whom the grace of God is working mightily! Those who have but little grace can take things easily, and swim with the current; but where grace is mighty, sin will fight for the mastery, though it must yield ultimately, for there can never be any true peace until it is subdued.] Spurgeon
Here is a much better commentary on the gist of Romans 7, specifically vs. 15-20 ...
By Charles Spurgeon
[Romans 7:15. For what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
This is a strange contradiction, — a man who has grace enough to will to do good, and yet does it not. There are two men in the one man, — the new nature struggling against the old nature. This must be a renewed man who talks in this fashion, or else he could not say that he hated sin; yet there must be a part of him still imperfect, or else he would not do that which he hates.
Romans 7:16. If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
“If I do that against which my conscience rebels, so far, the better part of me owns the goodness of the law, though the baser part of me rebels against it.”
Romans 7:17. Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
The renewed man still stands out against sin. His heart is not wishful to sin, but that old nature within him will sin even to the end.
Romans 7:18-19. For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Oh, how often have men, who have been struggling after holiness, had to use these words of the apostle! The more holy they become, the more they realize that there is still a something better beyond them, after which they struggle, but to which they cannot yet attain; so still they cry, “The good that we would we do not: but the evil which we would not, that we do.”
Romans 7:20. Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
The true man — the newborn man — is struggling after that which is right. The real “I “, the immortal “ego”, is still pressing forward, like a ship beating up against wind and tide, and striving to reach the harbor where it shall find perfect rest. Oh, what struggles, what contentions, what rightings, there are within the men and women in whom the grace of God is working mightily! Those who have but little grace can take things easily, and swim with the current; but where grace is mighty, sin will fight for the mastery, though it must yield ultimately, for there can never be any true peace until it is subdued.] Spurgeon
You can find 99 percent of the preachers that see it your way because the Catholics have been around for a long time.
Give me a verse that says Gentile Christian. Because the other guy could not? Maybe you can. Go ahead.
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
Am I the only one on the planet who understands Romans 7?
Are you the only one on the Planet who breathes air?
You know I'm not Catholic, right?
I'm talking about what the Bible itself says.
Much love!
our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Old self (Old man) identifies the unsaved person dominated by the totally depraved nature inherited from Adam, and who is "under sin" is not "righteous" is "helpless" (to save himself) is a inveterate "sinner" and an intractable "enemy" of God. And this is the old self we once were, our human nature considered apart from grace, apart from Christ. The old self is all that we were in Adam before we were saved and placed in Christ.
Still nothing about a sin nature. Being saved does not mean that we no longer sin. it means that our sins are forgiven.
Romans 6
King James Version
6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
I will gladly answer this question once you answer the one I have asked already.
do you commit sin anymore ?
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Wel of course, but that happens because of what jesus did at Calvary. Without Calvary we gentiles could never have been grafted onto the vine of Jewish blessing.
Yes it's there and all throughout the New Testament. Here's one from
Ephesians 2:3
...and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
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My reply #31 was in response to your phrase "sin nature". That phrase is simply not found in scripture. Moreover, it typically results from the false notion of Total Depravity inherited from Adam, something you mentioned in the post I was replying to. That false concept is at the heart of some of the worst doctrines in all of Christendom.
Jeremiah 17:9 - The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
Ephesians 2:1-3 - And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; (Read More...)
Psalms 51:5 - Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
1 Corinthians 2:14 - But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
John 6:44 - No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Romans 3:23 - For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Psalms 58:3 - The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.
John 6:65 - And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
Genesis 6:5 - And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
Jeremiah 13:23 - Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil.
Isaiah 64:6 - But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
Ephesians 2:3 - Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
Romans 8:7 - Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Romans 5:12 - Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Romans 3:10-11 - As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: (Read More...)
Romans 7:18 - For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
Ephesians 4:18 - Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
Romans 3:12 - They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
Ephesians 2:1 - And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
Ephesians 2:1-3 - And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; (Read More...)
Psalms 51:5 - Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
1 Corinthians 2:14 - But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
John 6:44 - No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Romans 3:23 - For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Psalms 58:3 - The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.
John 6:65 - And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
Genesis 6:5 - And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
Jeremiah 13:23 - Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil.
Isaiah 64:6 - But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
Ephesians 2:3 - Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
Romans 8:7 - Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Romans 5:12 - Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Romans 3:10-11 - As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: (Read More...)
Romans 7:18 - For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
Ephesians 4:18 - Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
Romans 3:12 - They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
Ephesians 2:1 - And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
And the phrase "sin nature" is not in any of those. And nothing there about "Total depravity inherited from Adam" either. Nice try though.
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