Am I wrong

[FHII]

and the baptism of desire, such as that of the Good Thief whose act of faith and desire for God on the cross saved him.

That's a good point. It's one of two verses I was saving as my Aces in the whole. If water baptism is necessary, what of the thief on the cross? What of any of us who don't have access to water baptism on our deathbed?

 

[Yehren]

I should have mentioned that his act of faith included repentance; without that, he still would have been lost.

 

[Yehren]

When I read his statement, I see he is saying "water" has other meanings.

He's right.

John 4:13 Jesus answered, and said to her: Whosoever drinketh of this water, shall thirst again; but he that shall drink of the water that I will give him, shall not thirst for ever: [14] But the water that I will give him, shall become in him a fountain of water, springing up into life everlasting.

 

[Marymog]

Is this your list of scriptures that say water baptism is necessary for salvation? Or are there more verses you would like to submit?

Yes, this is the list from Scripture that says water baptism is necessary for salvation. Is Scripture not enough for you?

Mary

 

[Marymog]

I understand bbyrd009's frustration and not wanting to continue. But I will pick up that task and hope he doesn't mind.

I don't understand.....especially considering he never backed up what he believes by providing passages from Scripture

Which is common with him....

 

[Ezra]

My husband and 4 kids moved to a small town in Tennessee a few years ago. We had always attended Calvary Chapel but none here. We have tried a bunch of churches but they always reject me because I was not baptized properly.

I was born to parents that actively hated the church God, Jesus w extreme passion. I can say that I was born to love Christ. Even as a tiny girl, I can remember secretly reading my bible. I contribute this to a praying MIL but another story...my dad was very violent, like a trip to the ICU at age 3 violent. I was baptized at 15 at a football game by sprinkle and I really was putting myself in a lot of danger doing that.
Fast forward 30 years..everytime we try to join a church, they say I need to be baptized. I feel baptized..and my baptism came at personal cost that few will ever know and meant more to me accordingly. Getting baptized again makes me want to vomit, my skin crawls when idiots tell me that this extremely important spiritual moment where God spoke to me w prophetic news that came true was all a lie and God is a liar.
I quit trying to even go to church bc my husband would get so mad when they rejected me and then none went to church. Am I wrong not to go to church? Should I just take a bath in sanctuary to make idiots happy?

baptism is important but not essential..if i was to guess this is a independent fundamentalist baptist church or missionary...not sure how southern are.. but many baptist hold a non biblical belief you have to be baptized into there Church .. find you a non denom church try it. i my self do believe in full emerson . BUT that has nothing to do with salvation .
here the deal if your truly saved and they ask if you been baptized and feel sprinkling is sufficient say yes.. how ever i suggest you pray about this see what the Lord leads. there are good churches seek them out

Should I just take a bath in sanctuary to make idiots happy?[

NO that is the wrong attitude many baptist are very dogmatic on baptism .you need to pray pray pray and pray more .are you deda set being in a baptist church? try a non denom

 

[Ezra]

Yes, this is the list from Scripture that says water baptism is necessary for salvation. Is Scripture not enough for you?

Mary

baptism follows salvation

 

[Ezra]

Yes, this is the list from Scripture that says water baptism is necessary for salvation. Is Scripture not enough for you?

Mary

baptism of the spirit is the most important.. stop trying to confuse the issue
1 Corinthians 12:13

“For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.”
we are justified first declared righteous not guilty just as we had never sinned . then we are sanctified set apart.made holy all this is by the spiritual birth born again then baptism follows .

 

[Marymog]

I understand bbyrd009's frustration and not wanting to continue. But I will pick up that task and hope he doesn't mind.

First of all, you slightly changed his statement. You said, "Would you care to share those passages about water and baptism in Scripture that have "other connotations"

What he actually said was, "i say that water has other connotations, as well as "baptize," but there is no sin in adhering to the ritual if you choose to read literally..."

The difference is subtile. You are looking for verses that include "water" and "baptism" and asking for "other connotations. Well, in that sense, no there aren't any. If a verse says they were baptized in water it's talking about literal H2O. But that's not what he said. When I read his statement, I see he is saying "water" has other meanings. Likewise, "baptism" has other meanings. He separated the two, but also said he had no problem with "water baptism". I agree.

"Baptism" does indeed have other meanings besides "water baptism". I feel we have come to that understanding. "Water" itself has other connotations as well. There are two great examples: John 4:14 and Eph 5:26. Do you really believe he was talking about literal H2O in these verses? I don't!

Again, people were baptized in water, and in those verses it was talking about literal water. Bbyrd009 and I have both said we have no problem with that. I can't speak for bbyrd, but I don't believe he's suggesting they were baptized in spiritual water in those verses.

But where it can cloud things up is John 3:5, which for me is the closest verse you have to saying water baptism is necessary.

The funny thing about that verse is that it doesn't say we must be baptized in water.

Thank you FHII.

You articulated his point very well and I understand what you/he are saying here. I appreciate the time you took to clarify.

If you/he look at the original post and keep in context what is being discussed here we are clearly talking about WATER BAPTISM. To him to throw into the conversation that "water" has "other connotations" is another rabbit hole and has nothing to do with the subject at hand. If he or you can't share those passages about water and baptism in Scripture that have "other connotations" then it is a mute point.

No, I do not believe the John 4 and Eph. 5 passages you mentioned talk "about literal H2O". But the subject of the OP is literal H2O and that is what we are discussing.

Hebrews 6:2, Colossians 2:12, Ephesians 4:5, 1 Corinthians 15:29, and Romans 6:4 do not mention water....do you believe they have another connotation besides water baptism?

This all comes back around to your post #3 where you said, "Don't give up on going to Church, but stick to your beliefs, because you are right, and they are the ones in error. There is nothing wrong with water baptism. It was done in the Bible. But the literal practice isn't required.

Ephesians 5:25-26 KJV
Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; [26] That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

The only water you must be baptized in is the Word: the same water that Jesus told the widow at the well about.

Your post is completely OPPOSITE of what Scripture says. Jesus was baptized in water. The Apostles baptized with water. We are told to baptize with water. Scripture says that we are to be Christ like, follow the example of Christ, do what he says and hold to the sound doctrines that were taught by the Apostles. The Apostles taught that water baptism saves you and Jesus said no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit.....which is what water baptism does. Just before Jesus made this statement he was baptized with WATER. Right after Jesus made this statement they went out and baptized with WATER. For anyone to teach that the water in John 3:5 is anything but baptismal water is teaching opposite of Scripture and the 2,000 teaching/practice of Christianity.

Soooo when you said that the "only water you must be baptized in is the word" you are completely and utterly wrong. Scripture makes it clear you receive the word AND THEN you are baptized with water. You don't get baptized in water and then receive the word. The word is NOT the only "baptism". Perhaps you miss-spoke when you wrote that and you would like to clarify?

Mary

 

[Marymog]

baptism of the spirit is the most important.. stop trying to confuse the issue
1 Corinthians 12:13

“For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.”
we are justified first declared righteous not guilty just as we had never sinned . then we are sanctified set apart.made holy all this is by the spiritual birth born again then baptism follows .

LOL....You are trolling my conversation with other members and interjecting your comments and you accuse me of trying to confuse the issue???

Wouldn't YOUR interjection into an ongoing conversation "confuse the issue"???

Scripture makes it clear on MULTIPLE occasions that converts heard the word then believed the word (converted) and then they were baptized with water. That is the subject at hand. Would you like to stay on task?

 

[Ezra]

LOL....You are trolling my conversation with other members and interjecting your comments and you accuse me of trying to confuse the issue???

Wouldn't YOUR interjection into an ongoing conversation "confuse the issue"???

Scripture makes it clear on MULTIPLE occasions that converts heard the word then believed the word (converted) and then they were baptized with water. That is the subject at hand. Would you like to stay on task?

nope your pushing water baptism to be saved ..the lady wants to join a church but they want her to be baptized most likely more into there Church.just not water baptism.. see if you did your home work a general baptist could not join a independent fundamentalist or missionary baptist church unless baptized

 

[Ezra]

then they were baptized with water. That is the subject at hand. Would you like to stay on task?

duhh had you been reading correctly i did stay on task you stated baptism is part of salvation.

 

[Marymog]

nope your pushing water baptism to be saved ..the lady wants to join a church but they want her to be baptized most likely more into there Church.just not water baptism.. see if you did your home work a general baptist could not join a independent fundamentalist or missionary baptist church unless baptized

I am pushing Scripture: baptism now saves you.

You believe opposite of what Scripture says

 

[Marymog]

duhh had you been reading correctly i did stay on task you stated baptism is part of salvation.

You said baptism of the spirit is the most important. That is not true and is not on task.

 

[Ezra]

I am pushing Scripture: baptism now saves you.

baptism does not save you ..no wonder your off track

 

[Ezra]

You said baptism of the spirit is the most important. That is not true and is not on task.

lol you need to read your Bible baptism of the spirit into the body of Christ=====salvation the spiritual birth/regeneration ..i will take time later on and try NOTE TRY to show you in scriptures not going to hold my breath

 

[Marymog]

baptism does not save you ..no wonder your off track

Scripture says it does save. You say it doesn't. I wonder which one I should believe???

 

[Ezra]

Scripture says it does save. You say it doesn't. I wonder which one I should believe???

ephesians 2:8-9
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.


romans 10:9-10
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.


Acts 4:12
12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
Acts 15:11 King James Version (KJV)
11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
Acts 16:30-32 King James Version (KJV)
30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
Romans 5:8-10 King James Version (KJV)
8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life
32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.
1 Corinthians 1:18 King James Version (KJV)
18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.


how much more do you need water baptism FOLLOWS SALVATION . no amount of water ever saved any one the doctrine of Grace through faith/ justification/ redeemed by the Blood .its all bout what Christ done for us is the saving elements ..not a body of water

 

[Episkopos]

My husband and 4 kids moved to a small town in Tennessee a few years ago. We had always attended Calvary Chapel but none here. We have tried a bunch of churches but they always reject me because I was not baptized properly.

I was born to parents that actively hated the church God, Jesus w extreme passion. I can say that I was born to love Christ. Even as a tiny girl, I can remember secretly reading my bible. I contribute this to a praying MIL but another story...my dad was very violent, like a trip to the ICU at age 3 violent. I was baptized at 15 at a football game by sprinkle and I really was putting myself in a lot of danger doing that.
Fast forward 30 years..everytime we try to join a church, they say I need to be baptized. I feel baptized..and my baptism came at personal cost that few will ever know and meant more to me accordingly. Getting baptized again makes me want to vomit, my skin crawls when idiots tell me that this extremely important spiritual moment where God spoke to me w prophetic news that came true was all a lie and God is a liar.
I quit trying to even go to church bc my husband would get so mad when they rejected me and then none went to church. Am I wrong not to go to church? Should I just take a bath in sanctuary to make idiots happy?

Think of church denominations as franchises like cable companies. Each time you subscribe they want to put their own cables in.

Or...think of the well meaning ministers as running a hospital. Every person they meet they think of as a patient. So they run all the usual tests on you.

A maturing Christian should meet with others that are also maturing...away from man made denominations...where there is no discipleship and everything is always stuck in first gear...trying to fill the pews with more people. Look to God and not men.

The churches are about quantity not quality. And this goes exactly contrary to the great commission.

But if you want to fit into the man made institutions...why not follow their ways? Their house...their rules.

 

[Ezra]

But if you want to fit into the man made institutions...why not follow their ways? Their house...their rules.

not all Churches are like this .i can show you several true blue try to do what the Bible has to say. certainly it helps to have some structure. but not to the point of Leaving God out and not allowing the spirit to lead in another direction /change the message . so you cant compare all to the same way . maybe you had a bad experience