Am I wrong

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

charity

Well-Known Member
Nov 26, 2017
3,234
3,192
113
75
UK
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
My husband and 4 kids moved to a small town in Tennessee a few years ago. We had always attended Calvary Chapel but none here. We have tried a bunch of churches but they always reject me because I was not baptized properly.

I was born to parents that actively hated the church God, Jesus w extreme passion. I can say that I was born to love Christ. Even as a tiny girl, I can remember secretly reading my bible. I contribute this to a praying MIL but another story...my dad was very violent, like a trip to the ICU at age 3 violent. I was baptized at 15 at a football game by sprinkle and I really was putting myself in a lot of danger doing that.
Fast forward 30 years..everytime we try to join a church, they say I need to be baptized. I feel baptized..and my baptism came at personal cost that few will ever know and meant more to me accordingly. Getting baptized again makes me want to vomit, my skin crawls when idiots tell me that this extremely important spiritual moment where God spoke to me w prophetic news that came true was all a lie and God is a liar.
I quit trying to even go to church bc my husband would get so mad when they rejected me and then none went to church. Am I wrong not to go to church? Should I just take a bath in sanctuary to make idiots happy?

Hello @LWK,

I don't go to Church. It is not something that sits well with me, but I have my reasons. I have not been part of a Christian community for many years now. I study alone, but God has never left me to walk alone, I usually have one person to walk with me, that I can share the things of God with, at any given time. For which I thank Him.

We each walk with God, in Christ Jesus, and are called into fellowship with The Father and with The Son in the spirit. The Holy Spirit uses His Word to quicken us, and lead us on into the knowledge of God, in Christ Jesus. We are never alone.

May His perfect will be done in us all, for His Name and Glory's sake.

In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nancy

Marymog

Well-Known Member
Mar 7, 2017
11,420
1,681
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
ephesians 2:8-9
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

romans 10:9-10
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Acts 4:12
12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
Acts 15:11 King James Version (KJV)
11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
Acts 16:30-32 King James Version (KJV)
30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
Romans 5:8-10 King James Version (KJV)
8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life
32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.
1 Corinthians 1:18 King James Version (KJV)
18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.


how much more do you need water baptism FOLLOWS SALVATION . no amount of water ever saved any one the doctrine of Grace through faith/ justification/ redeemed by the Blood .its all bout what Christ done for us is the saving elements ..not a body of water
Not one or the other is necessary for Salvation but both.
 

charity

Well-Known Member
Nov 26, 2017
3,234
3,192
113
75
UK
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
Not one or the other is necessary for Salvation but both.
-----------------------------------------------------
'For by grace are ye saved through faith;
.. and that not of yourselves:
.... it is the gift of God:

...... Not of works,
........ lest any man should boast.
For we are His workmanship,
.. created in Christ Jesus unto good works,
.... which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.'

(Ephesians 2:8-10)

Hello @Marymog,

Would you please tell me, on what Scriptural basis you make this statement?

With love in Christ Jesus
Chris
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Ezra and Nancy

Ezra

Well-Known Member
Dec 27, 2018
2,564
1,314
113
62
Missouri
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Not one or the other is necessary for Salvation but both.
lol very well you hold onto that .see i knew it was a waste of time ..i mean serious what scripture do you get all this from i posted at least 7 or 8.showing different
 

shnarkle

Well-Known Member
Nov 10, 2013
1,689
569
113
Faith
Other Faith
Country
United States
My husband and 4 kids moved to a small town in Tennessee a few years ago. We had always attended Calvary Chapel but none here. We have tried a bunch of churches but they always reject me because I was not baptized properly.

I was born to parents that actively hated the church God, Jesus w extreme passion. I can say that I was born to love Christ. Even as a tiny girl, I can remember secretly reading my bible. I contribute this to a praying MIL but another story...my dad was very violent, like a trip to the ICU at age 3 violent. I was baptized at 15 at a football game by sprinkle and I really was putting myself in a lot of danger doing that.
Fast forward 30 years..everytime we try to join a church, they say I need to be baptized. I feel baptized..and my baptism came at personal cost that few will ever know and meant more to me accordingly. Getting baptized again makes me want to vomit, my skin crawls when idiots tell me that this extremely important spiritual moment where God spoke to me w prophetic news that came true was all a lie and God is a liar.
I quit trying to even go to church bc my husband would get so mad when they rejected me and then none went to church. Am I wrong not to go to church? Should I just take a bath in sanctuary to make idiots happy?

John the Baptist pointed out that he baptized with water, but there was also a baptism of fire, and it sounds to me that you've already had that baptism by fire.

I have been attending different churches for over 30 years now, and I've never had a single one tell me I couldn't attend their services until I was baptized. I've had numerous churches allow me to participate in all sorts of programs, and functions as well.

I've also noticed that if I rotate from one church to the next from week to week, they're always happy to see me the next time I'm at their service. It's like you're a perpetual celebrity. The novelty of your presence never wears off.

If someone ever approached me to say that I would have to be baptized, I would tell them, "Let me get back to you", and then instead of hitting that church every other week, or once a month, I'd just bump it back to once every two months.

Usually if they see you putting something into the collection basket, they're not likely to make waves.

I'd also suggest hitting each and every church within at least ten or fifteen miles. It each on at least once. I'd even hit a synagogue if you're still having problems.
Years ago, I was living in a fairly small community, and I was going to around a dozen or more different churches, but I still managed to add in a few that I had never been to before. One was a gospel revival/spirit filled church.

I remember driving into the parking lot the first time, and thinking, "Uh, oh. This doesn't look good" You see, I was driving this cheap Korean import that was kind of dusty, and every car in that parking lot looked like it was right off the showroom floor from the local Cadillac dealer. There were Mercedes Benzes, BMW's, Lincoln's, and right in the middle of all this wealth was my cheap Korean economy car. It stuck out like a sore thumb.

My Sunday best was something I had picked up at the local thrift store. The whole ensemble cost me less than $10.00, and that was with a dozen ties included. As I walked in, everyone in the place was decked out like they were at a coronation. I looked like a pauper by comparison.

I sat down in one of the back rows, and the service soon began with some of the most stirring singing I have ever heard in my entire life. After about the second or third song, I began to weep uncontrollably. The tears were streaming down my face. I couldn't wipe them away fast enough.

The preaching was also quite good. I attended their bible study for a while as well. They were all very nice people, and while they welcomed me to their services and bible study group, they never really accepted me.

I was the only white person in the entire congregation, but that's not why they gave me the cold shoulder. It was because I was driving that cheap Korean import, and wore cheap threads from some thrift store.

I don't fault them though. I actually admired how well they dressed for church. I really enjoyed seeing how shnazzy they all looked. They took pride in their appearance which is a rarity in a lot of churches today.

In California, it isn't unusual to see kids in cut off shorts, flip flops and some torn tank top with two pigs copulating and the caption, "Makin Bacon"
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Nancy

Ezra

Well-Known Member
Dec 27, 2018
2,564
1,314
113
62
Missouri
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
in some churches to be members you have to be baptized into the church no matter if previous .guy i worked with belonged to a gen baptist church .his family joined a independent baptist church . his kids had to be baptized again.. some missionary are this away .not sure on southern baptist . i dont know how the church of Christ beliefs general baptist don't care
 

Marymog

Well-Known Member
Mar 7, 2017
11,420
1,681
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
-----------------------------------------------------
'For by grace are ye saved through faith;
.. and that not of yourselves:
.... it is the gift of God:

...... Not of works,
........ lest any man should boast.
For we are His workmanship,
.. created in Christ Jesus unto good works,
.... which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.'

(Ephesians 2:8-10)

Hello @Marymog,

Would you please tell me, on what Scriptural basis you make this statement?

With love in Christ Jesus
Chris
Thank you Charity for this opportunity to discuss ALL of Scripture. Scripture has many references on how we obtain Salvation. Some of the passages below flat out say what one must do to obtain salvation. Others allude to it when put in context.

It seems you are suggesting that it is only thru maintaining the faith (Col 1:22-23; Mt 24:13) and thru grace (Acts 15:11; Eph 2:8) one obtains salvation.

Salvation starts off by believing in Christ (Jn 3:16; Acts 16:31).

We then have to repent AND be baptized (Acts 2:38; 2 Pet 3:9, Jn 3:5; 1 Pet 3:21; Titus 3:5).

After all this is done one also has to do good works (John 5:28-29; Rom 2:6, 7; James 2:24) and don't forget about declaring with our mouths (Lu 12:8; Rom 10:9).

Romans 10:9 flat out says if you confess with your lips that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. Does the Romans 10 passage nullify Ephesians 2:8-10?

Respectfully, Mary
 

Marymog

Well-Known Member
Mar 7, 2017
11,420
1,681
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
lol very well you hold onto that .see i knew it was a waste of time ..i mean serious what scripture do you get all this from i posted at least 7 or 8.showing different
Oh.....sooooo the one who post's the most passages to support their belief wins??? o_O

OK....Here are 12 passages:

Salvation starts off by believing in Christ (Jn 3:16; Acts 16:31).

We then have to repent AND be baptized (Acts 2:38; 2 Pet 3:9, Jn 3:5; 1 Pet 3:21; Titus 3:5).

After all this is done one also has to do good works (John 5:28-29; Rom 2:6, 7; James 2:24) and don't forget about declaring with our mouths (Lu 12:8; Rom 10:9).

I win....

Mary
 

Marymog

Well-Known Member
Mar 7, 2017
11,420
1,681
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
John the Baptist pointed out that he baptized with water, but there was also a baptism of fire, and it sounds to me that you've already had that baptism by fire.

I have been attending different churches for over 30 years now, and I've never had a single one tell me I couldn't attend their services until I was baptized. I've had numerous churches allow me to participate in all sorts of programs, and functions as well.

I've also noticed that if I rotate from one church to the next from week to week, they're always happy to see me the next time I'm at their service. It's like you're a perpetual celebrity. The novelty of your presence never wears off.

If someone ever approached me to say that I would have to be baptized, I would tell them, "Let me get back to you", and then instead of hitting that church every other week, or once a month, I'd just bump it back to once every two months.

Usually if they see you putting something into the collection basket, they're not likely to make waves.

I'd also suggest hitting each and every church within at least ten or fifteen miles. It each on at least once. I'd even hit a synagogue if you're still having problems.
Years ago, I was living in a fairly small community, and I was going to around a dozen or more different churches, but I still managed to add in a few that I had never been to before. One was a gospel revival/spirit filled church.

I remember driving into the parking lot the first time, and thinking, "Uh, oh. This doesn't look good" You see, I was driving this cheap Korean import that was kind of dusty, and every car in that parking lot looked like it was right off the showroom floor from the local Cadillac dealer. There were Mercedes Benzes, BMW's, Lincoln's, and right in the middle of all this wealth was my cheap Korean economy car. It stuck out like a sore thumb.

My Sunday best was something I had picked up at the local thrift store. The whole ensemble cost me less than $10.00, and that was with a dozen ties included. As I walked in, everyone in the place was decked out like they were at a coronation. I looked like a pauper by comparison.

I sat down in one of the back rows, and the service soon began with some of the most stirring singing I have ever heard in my entire life. After about the second or third song, I began to weep uncontrollably. The tears were streaming down my face. I couldn't wipe them away fast enough.

The preaching was also quite good. I attended their bible study for a while as well. They were all very nice people, and while they welcomed me to their services and bible study group, they never really accepted me.

I was the only white person in the entire congregation, but that's not why they gave me the cold shoulder. It was because I was driving that cheap Korean import, and wore cheap threads from some thrift store.

I don't fault them though. I actually admired how well they dressed for church. I really enjoyed seeing how shnazzy they all looked. They took pride in their appearance which is a rarity in a lot of churches today.

In California, it isn't unusual to see kids in cut off shorts, flip flops and some torn tank top with two pigs copulating and the caption, "Makin Bacon"
Hi Schnarkle,

Sooooo are you saying that you shop around until you find a Church that conforms to what YOU believe? Or do you just look for the Church you feel most welcome in?

Why are you against being baptized?

Curious Mary
 

Marymog

Well-Known Member
Mar 7, 2017
11,420
1,681
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
in some churches to be members you have to be baptized into the church no matter if previous .guy i worked with belonged to a gen baptist church .his family joined a independent baptist church . his kids had to be baptized again.. some missionary are this away .not sure on southern baptist . i dont know how the church of Christ beliefs general baptist don't care
I guess it depends on if the baptism was done correctly or not is how they decide if one has to be re-baptized (baptized correctly) when entering a new church.
 

Ezra

Well-Known Member
Dec 27, 2018
2,564
1,314
113
62
Missouri
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I guess it depends on if the baptism was done correctly or not is how they decide if one has to be re-baptized (baptized correctly) when entering a new church.
only one way to be baptized by following the steps of jesus . not even so sure if verbally you have to say in the name of the father son holyghost . one must be born again of the spirit.other wise all that happens was you got wet.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nancy

Marymog

Well-Known Member
Mar 7, 2017
11,420
1,681
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
only one way to be baptized by following the steps of jesus . not even so sure if verbally you have to say in the name of the father son holyghost . one must be born again of the spirit.other wise all that happens was you got wet.
Well, if we follow the steps of Jesus then we would be baptized with water.....just like he was.

How can you not be sure if verbally you have to say in the name of the father, Son and Holy Ghost? He said "baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit". The earliest Christian writings we have show that they said/did this while baptizing.

One is born again of the Spirit when they are baptized (with water)....Just like Jesus said in John 3:5!!

Who taught you Scripture?

Mary
 

Marymog

Well-Known Member
Mar 7, 2017
11,420
1,681
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
you win what ????? Grace it is not water baptism . looks like your win = loss o_O:eek:
You said you posted at least 7 or 8 showing different suggesting the more passages you post the more right you are. I posted more than you. I win!! Why are you pitting Scripture against Scripture? Why are you ignoring ALL of Scripture on this matter? Is it because the passages I have quoted destroy your theory? Your theory began with the Anabaptist about 500 years ago. What I am teaching you has been taught for 2,000 years. You should pay heed.

I never compared grace to water baptism.....o_O

Mary
 

shnarkle

Well-Known Member
Nov 10, 2013
1,689
569
113
Faith
Other Faith
Country
United States
Hi Schnarkle,

Sooooo are you saying that you shop around until you find a Church that conforms to what YOU believe?

No. I go regardless of what they believe. I go to different churches for different reasons. The production value at some of these churches rivals that of a Vegas show. This isn't even what I define as church. Just because everyone else is under the impression that they're saved or going to heaven or made righteous doesn't mean I can't enjoy a Vegas show. I went and saw the Mormon Tabernacle choir years ago while I was hanging out in Salt Lake City for a few days. A man came out on the stage, and made a brief announcement. The last thing he said was, "Enjoy the show".

Other churches serve lunches or dinners. I spent years living on the street, and used to go to those churches for a free meal. It really began to draw me into going to church after a while. I came for the food, but stayed for the fellowship.

Other churches have fantastic preaching while others have incredible music. Still others may have a message I'm interested in. Most have a billboard letting know what the topic is. The menus are quite diverse so I go with whatever seems relevant at the time.

Or do you just look for the Church you feel most welcome in?

I don't feel welcome in most churches. I almost always feel like a stranger or an outsider. I go anyways because these are just feelings or thoughts I have. They aren't really who I am.

Why are you against being baptized?

I'm not against being baptized. I never said baptism was wrong. I'm against being forced to do much of anything against one's will. If you were walking into a Vegas show, and they said you would have to take a dunk in the fountain before the show, would you go? What if they said that you smelled funnny, but you had just taken a shower? Does there seem to be any good reason to get clean when you just took a shower? Does one have to get clean to take a shower?

Baptism means different things to different people. Some people see it as a process of cleansing while others see it as symbolic of dying and being reborn. They are essentially homoeomorphic equivalents, but that's not good enough for people who insisting on details.

Jesus was undoubtedly crucified on wood hew from Lebanon with bronze spikes, says one faction. Another claims he was hung from a single beam. This is what passes for serious theology today.

The legalists ask how does one determine who one is married to in heaven if they've been married to half a dozen people. Jesus says there is no marriage in heaven. There are no whores or adulterers either.

Who can forget the question of how many angels can dance on the tip of a needle, or the fact that anyone with any material wealth assumes camels can pass through the eye of one.

We're quickly running out of clean water. Some churches may find it necessary to baptize their newest members in bourbon, or maybe Bacardi 151 which could easily become a baptism by fire if the baptismal font is too close to the candles.
 
  • Like
Reactions: brakelite

Marymog

Well-Known Member
Mar 7, 2017
11,420
1,681
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I'm not against being baptized. I never said baptism was wrong. I'm against being forced to do much of anything against one's will. If you were walking into a Vegas show, and they said you would have to take a dunk in the fountain before the show, would you go? What if they said that you smelled funnny, but you had just taken a shower? Does there seem to be any good reason to get clean when you just took a shower? Does one have to get clean to take a shower?

Baptism means different things to different people. Some people see it as a process of cleansing while others see it as symbolic of dying and being reborn. They are essentially homoeomorphic equivalents, but that's not good enough for people who insisting on details.
Thank you. When you said that churches would tell you that you would have to be baptized, I would tell them, "Let me get back to you", I thought you were against baptism. I now see what you meant by that.

I don't get your analogy about being dunked in a fountain before a Vegas show and Scriptures instructions for all Christians to be baptized with water to obtain salavation. I THINK I get the gist of what you are saying....but I'm not sure.

I think you are saying once you have been properly baptized a new church that you go to shouldn't demand that you be baptized again before you can become a member(?). If that is what you are saying then I agree with you.

Mary
 

shnarkle

Well-Known Member
Nov 10, 2013
1,689
569
113
Faith
Other Faith
Country
United States
I don't get your analogy about being dunked in a fountain before a Vegas show

It depends on why one is going to church in the first place. Some people want to be a part of something. They want the fellowship, and a sense of belonging. However, if I'm black, walking into the next Klan meeting isn't likely to generate the feelings I'm looking for. The same goes for wanting to join a church that has different beliefs than I do. I'm not going to a Vegas show to be saved I'm going to be entertained, and have my ears tickled.

People conflated the fact that there's nothing wrong with having their ears tickled, and having them tickled in church.

Scriptures instructions for all Christians to be baptized with water to obtain salavation.

Again, you have now crossed into denominational doctrines of baptism. I didn't get the impression she wanted to rehash denominational doctrines, but simply to point out that she didn't feel the necessity to be baptized repeatedly.

Here's the issue as I see it. Ritual or ceremonial baptism is an outward sign or proclamation of one's initiation and participation into a community of faith. This is something one does because they WANT to make this profession of faith. She doesn't want to. She see's no need to. Fair enough. I've made the same decision myself, not because I've already been baptized (I have), but because I don't feel like I belong to that faith community. There just simply isn't a level of belonging, trust, etc. that warrants me making the claim.

I see something of that in her post as well.

I think you are saying once you have been properly baptized a new church that you go to shouldn't demand that you be baptized again before you can become a member(?).

Not necessarily. Churches have every right to defend their beliefs. I have no right to barge in and tell the Klan that they need to start admitting blacks to Klan meetings. It's idiotic.

Church membership usually requires additional responsibilities. Some churches take these things seriously. Right off the bat, they're saying that her previous baptism wasn't legal. it was illegitimate. She's basically being told that she is a spiritual bastard. It's completely asinine.
 
  • Like
Reactions: brakelite and Nancy

Ezra

Well-Known Member
Dec 27, 2018
2,564
1,314
113
62
Missouri
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
You said you posted at least 7 or 8 showing different suggesting the more passages you post the more right you are. I posted more than you. I win!! Why are you pitting Scripture against Scripture? Why are you ignoring ALL of Scripture on this matter? Is it because the passages I have quoted destroy your theory? Your theory began with the Anabaptist about 500 years ago. What I am teaching you has been taught for 2,000 years. You should pay heed.

I never compared grace to water baptism.....o_O

Mary
sigh when you say water baptism is part of salvation. you take away the cross the resurrection. along with redemption Christ paid for with his own blood. which equals to bing justified and sanctified .. my theory as you say has nothing to do with anabaptist .. maybe its best YOU TAKE HEED duhh
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nancy

Ezra

Well-Known Member
Dec 27, 2018
2,564
1,314
113
62
Missouri
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Again, you have now crossed into denominational doctrines of baptism. I didn't get the impression she wanted to rehash denominational doctrines, but simply to point out that she didn't feel the necessity to be baptized repeatedly.

Here's the issue as I see it. Ritual or ceremonial baptism is an outward sign or proclamation of one's initiation and participation into a community of faith. This is something one does because they WANT to make this profession of faith. She doesn't want to. She see's no need to. Fair enough. I've made the same decision myself, not because I've already been baptized (I have), but because I don't feel like I belong to that faith community. There just simply isn't a level of belonging, trust, etc. that warrants me making the claim.

I see something of that in her post as well.

Not necessarily. Churches have every right to defend their beliefs. I have no right to barge in and tell the Klan that they need to start admitting blacks to Klan meetings. It's idiotic.

Church membership usually requires additional responsibilities. Some churches take these things seriously. Right off the bat, they're saying that her previous baptism wasn't legal. it was illegitimate. She's basically being told that she is a spiritual bastard. It's completely asinine.
for the most i agree ---> {She's basically being told that she is a spiritual bastard. It's completely asinine} in some churches yes the will treat you like that
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nancy