Amillennialism

[Marcus O'Reillius]

What you have presented is revised History, replacement theology of its worest kind, and showen an inability to stay in context, and fabricated a complete mess

One: rabbi keras represents Replacement Theology.
I favor progressive dispensationalism to explain not only the schism which separates Jew from Christian, the Jew's future status as the Remnant, and the ultimate reason for the Millennium in the first place - but the difference in how God treats these two, distinctly different groups of His People who are ultimately united in Christ.

Two: "worest"? "showen"?

Three: like detergent commercials, what they often say they do, they don't.
Likewise, when someone criticizes someone else, often they reflect themselves instead.

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

Zechariah 14:16-19 - Isaiah 66:22-23

I think you're misappropriating Millennial passages for the Jews to us - which IS part and parcel with Replacement Theology - which is what you accuse me of doing! LOL

 

[inchrist]

The word for people here is associated directly with nagiyd, the prince - not the king, mashiyach who is Jesus; and that prince, then anti-Christ, is still to come.

Lol someone clearly got rattled.

False....i can do this all day.

Rev 1:5 KJV
And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth.

Greek archón = a ruler, prince, leader

Hebrew nagid = a leader, ruler, prince

Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

And even though the fire was started by Roman soldiers - in the end, it was Titus who commanded that the entire structure, with its outlying buildings be razed.

It would seem marcus was a witness to the account even though this has been refuted yet he still persists in his delusions

"Titus supposing what the fact was, that the house itself might yet he saved, he came in haste and endeavored to persuade the soldiers to quench the fire…yet were their passions too hard for the regards they had for Caesar, and the dread they had of him who forbade them, as was their hatred of the Jews, and a certain vehement inclination to fight them, too hard for them also…And thus was the holy house burnt down, without Caesar’s approbation" (Josephus, Wars of the Jews)

So tell me Marcus since you were there back in the day...what was it like?

It comes to a point one starts feeling embarrased for the person.

I suppose you also have a phd in Roman history?

Sara Elise Phang, Ph.D., author of Roman Military Service, ideologies of discipline in the late Republic and early Principate

States the following:
What had been an army of Italians was increasingly becoming an army of provincials owing no particular allegiance to, or common bond with the Senate or the urbs Roma…

Two: we have a fallacy in argument here:Argumentum ad nauseam (argument to the point of disgust; i.e., by repetition):

Clearly repetition is needed as you keep ignoring eyewitness accounts to what unfolded...but i guess its easier to invent history i guess.

Oh, dear! You're right! Daniel 9:26 says ON THE ORDER OF THE COMMANDER OF THE PEOPLE OF THE PRINCE WHO SHALL COME -

More invention on your part

Again the jews were at fault for the destruction of the City.

No, we're not supposed to read what Paul wrote in inspired text as meaning what it says.
No, we're only supposed to follow the commands of someone who misrepresents what Scripture says.
This is kind of sad actually.

Not only did you fail at your pathetic grammar attempt that led to dead ends, you still cant seem to accept to stay within context of Daniel

Daniel 9:24
Seventy 'sevens' are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the Most Holy Place.

.....Daniel 9:26 still has the same people and the same holy city in view.

Context, context, context. Try it out...

For instance, the eight days of the Days of Awe, when Jews humbly reflect upon God's Might in light of their sins, is notreplicated with the Trumpet Judgments, the first Woe alone taking five months.

Firstly its 10 days of awe...cant even get that right, which im not even surprised by.

Secondly wrong location for the 10 days of awe.

The 7 seal trumpet blasts equates with the Hebrew months, as follows --

1) Nisan 1 -- first trumpet
2) Iyyar 1 -- second trumpet
3) Sivan 1 -- third trumpet
4) Tammuz 1 -- fourth trumpet
5) Ab 1 -- fifth trumpet
6) Elul 1 -- sixth trumpet
7) Tishri 1 -- Feast of Trumpets, seventh trumpet

I think you're misappropriating Millennial passages for the Jews to us - which IS part and parcel with Replacement Theology - which is what you accuse me of doing! LOL

Then there goes your one new man concept, well done for that.

Jesus did not "confirm" any OT Covenant for only seven years.

He did for his first bride its called Christs work...again prophetic template of Jacob leah and Rachel.

"One week” would witness the confirming of the New Covenant with many whereby the sacrifices and oblations of the Old Covenant were caused to cease -- and the things predicted in verse 24 to be fulfilled. Matthew 26:28 confirms this covenant

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

Rev 1:5 KJV
And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth.

Sorry atin-christ. The best word-for-word translation we have differs on this point, as the word has more than one application.

Christ means Anointed and is used for the title: King.

Jesus is not prince to the Kings, but ruler over them: He is the King of KIngs.

Rev 1:5 and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth.

1st Tim 6:14 that you keep the commandment without stain or reproach until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15 which He will bring about at the proper time—He who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords, 16 who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see. To Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amen.

Rev 17:14 These will wage war against the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, because He is Lord of lords and King of kings, and those who are with Him are the called and chosen and faithful."

Rev 19:16 And on His robe and on His thigh He has a name written, " KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS."

What is it when someone is a poor scholar of the Word? He is no scholar at all.

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

Firstly its 10 days of awe...cant even get that right, which im not even surprised by.

Secondly wrong location for the 10 days of awe.

Rosh ha-Shannah is on the 1st of Tishri.
It is the only two-day "Holy Day" in the Hebrew calendar.

Yom Kippur is on the 10th of Tishri.
It closes the ten days of repentance.

The eight days in between are what I, and others, call the Days of Awe.
They are not formally celebrated as is Rosh ha-Shannah and Yom Kippur.
They are a minor aspect of the Fall Appointed Times.

And no, it is not the wrong location for recognizing this time.

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

"Titus supposing what the fact was, that the house itself might yet he saved, he came in haste and endeavored to persuade the soldiers to quench the fire…yet were their passions too hard for the regards they had for Caesar, and the dread they had of him who forbade them, as was their hatred of the Jews, and a certain vehement inclination to fight them, too hard for them also…And thus was the holy house burnt down, without Caesar’s approbation" (Josephus, Wars of the Jews)

War. 6. 4. 5
(252) At which time one of the soldiers, without staying for any orders, and without any concern or dread upon him at so great an undertaking, and being hurried on by a certain divine fury, snatched somewhat out of the materials that were on fire, and being lifted up by another soldier, he set fire to a golden window, through which there was a passage to the rooms that were round about the holy house, on the north side of it.

Still, the Temple was not destroyed.

War. 6. 4. 7
(260) And now, since Caesar was no way able to restrain the enthusiastic fury of the soldiers, and the fire proceeded on more and more, he went into the holy place of the temple; with his commanders, and saw it, with what was in it, which he found to be far superior to what the relations of foreigners contained, and not inferior to what we ourselves boasted of and believed about it; (261) but as the flame had not as yet reached to its inward parts, but was still consuming the rooms that were about the holy house, and Titus supposing what the fact was, that the house itself might yet be saved,

Here Josephus says the Temple was destroyed. But that is a manner of speaking... It was certainly unusable after being burnt and plundered.

War. 6. 4. 7
(266) whereby the flame burst out from within the holy house itself immediately, when the commanders retired, and Caesar with them, and when nobody any longer forbade those that were without to set fire to it; and thus the holy house burnt down, without Caesar;s approbation.

Stone does not burn, but limestone, which is a basic building material, is weakened with fire.

Following the burning (down) of the Temple, and the routing of the rest of the city, with victory complete and total: Titus gave the order to raze the Temple long after it had been burnt. Don't you know this?

War. 7. 1. 1
(1) Now, as soon as the army had no more people to slay or to plunder, because there remained none to be objects of their fury (for they would not have spared any, had there remained any other such work to be done) Caesar gave orders that they should now demolish the entire city and temple, but should leave as many of the towers standing as were of the greatest eminency; that is, Phasaelus, and Hippicus, and Mariamne, and so much of the wall as enclosed the city on the west side.

atin-christ, as mean-spirited as can be when one is on a mission to destroy, is not above playing with facts and will misrepresent even history.

Titus utterly razed the Temple, so that not one stone was resting upon another.

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

The 7 seal trumpet blasts equates with the Hebrew months, as follows --

1) Nisan 1 -- first trumpet
2) Iyyar 1 -- second trumpet
3) Sivan 1 -- third trumpet
4) Tammuz 1 -- fourth trumpet
5) Ab 1 -- fifth trumpet
6) Elul 1 -- sixth trumpet
7) Tishri 1 -- Feast of Trumpets, seventh trumpet

Of course, there is no Scriptural support for any this wild fantasy.

And atin-christ gives one month for the fifth Trumpet / first Woe, and ends the whole matter two months later when Scripture says the first Woe affects men for five months.

Oops. Another crazy idea shot down in its infancy.

 

[inchrist]

What is it when someone is a poor scholar of the Word? He is no scholar at all.

This is some really desperate stuff from you.

What is the greek equivalent of the hebrew word nagid ?

Jesus is not prince to the Kings, but ruler over them: He is the King of KIngs.

What is the hebrew equivalent of the greek word archón

Again you're at a check mate.....Im starting to find it laughable how you keep running into grammatical dead ends.

archón and nagid are the same equivalent generic terms used for Christ.

The eight days in between are what I, and others, call the Days of Awe.

Again you get this wrong, theres no such thing as 8 days of awe and the ten days starting with Rosh Hashanah and ending with Yom Kippur are commonly known as the Days of Awe (Yamim Noraim) or the Days of Repentance. Its not known only in between as you state.....others like myself, the jews and Christ call it 10 days of awe....so get it right.

And no, it is not the wrong location for recognizing this time.

Of cause its in the wrong location, you cant even identify when Rosh hashanah occrs how can you possible get 10 days of awe right?

Rosh hashanah occurs on the 7th trumpet....all of Rosh hashanah idioms are to be found there. From the 7th trumpet will be 10 days of awe to Yom Kippur being Rev 19

Of course, there is no Scriptural support for any this wild fantasy.Of course, there is no Scriptural support for any this wild fantasy.

Um actually there is each of the Jewish months was officially introduced by the blowing of trumpets -- notice!

"...at the beginnings of your months, you shall blow the trumpet over your burnt offerings and over the sacrifices of your peace offerings..." (Numbers 10:10).

Since the festival year in which all the Mosaic festivals were found was SEVEN MONTHS LONG, the last month -- Tishri -- was the last month for a trumpet introduction. This is one of the reasons that the day was called "the Day of Trumpets." The last trump in the seven months' series was always sounded on this New Moon day. This made it the final trumpets' day -- notice Leviticus 23:24:

"Say to the people of Israel, In the seventh month, on the first day of the month, you shall observe a day of solemn rest, a memorial PROCLAIMED WITH A BLAST OF TRUMPETS..."

Each of these New Moon trumpet blasts equates with the Hebrew months, as follows --

1) Nisan 1 -- first trumpet
2) Iyyar 1 -- second trumpet
3) Sivan 1 -- third trumpet
4) Tammuz 1 -- fourth trumpet
5) Ab 1 -- fifth trumpet
6) Elul 1 -- sixth trumpet
7) Tishri 1 -- Feast of Trumpets, seventh trumpet

And atin-christ gives one month for the fifth Trumpet / first Woe, and ends the whole matter two months later when Scripture says the first Woe affects men for five months.

Lol you are too easy, did you not think I would know this?

Firstly I said the 7 seal trumpet blasts equates with the Hebrew months, i didnt say the length of each hebrew month is exactly 1:1 unless scripture stipulates the trumoet blasts in Revelation its length to be exactly. As we know it doesnt.

However the trumpet blasts equates with the Hebrew months.

Now however Christ did stupulate the actual length from Rosh hashanah to Yom Kippur....since youve boasted how great a scholar you are and unrivalled by any before and to come....please translate the following for me into hebrew Tribulation 10 days

atin-christ, as mean-spirited as can be when one is on a mission to destroy, is not above playing with facts and will misrepresent even history.Titus utterly razed the Temple, so that not one stone was resting upon another.

So let me get this straight, you soley blaming Titus for the rubble destruction of the temple after the primary destruction of the temple caused by the syrians who disobeyed Titus orders? And then you superimpose that over Daniel 9:27? Please dont ever become a lawyer, I would fire you on the spot.

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

archón and nagid are the same equivalent generic terms used for Christ.

No, there is the Messiah and the Prince.
The Messiah is Jesus.
The Prince is to come from the people who destroyed the city and the sanctuary.
That is the Romans as Josephus and history show.
TITUS gave the order to raze both the Temple and the City.
- Josephus' book: War 7.1.1

EVEN IF you want to say the Syrians burnt the Temple, Jesus does not come from them.
Furthermore, Josephus does not say it was the Syrians that did it.
As auxiliaries, they probably didn't.
Why you want to say it - is that you're grasping at straws. Were you there to know this? LOL
And so the Prince is not Jesus even if you want to say that.

AND Jesus NEVER "prevailed" (by force) seven years of anything.
That is another error unintelligent people must ignore when trying to say Jesus is the actor of Daniel 9:27.

Equating the Greek, which is not in Daniel 9:26 is your error in your persistent fanaticism to destroy.
The only thing you have destroyed is your credibility.

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

Rosh hashanah occurs on the 7th trumpet....all of Rosh hashanah idioms are to be found there. From the 7th trumpet will be 10 days of awe to Yom Kippur being Rev 19

Nope. Made up entirely.

The seventh Trumpet of God's Wrath is not God's Last Trumpet calling the Elect to Heaven.

Here, logically from Scripture, is why the Last Trumpet is not the seventh Trumpet of God's Wrath.

1. The Last Trumpet calls the Dead forth from Paradise (the ends of Heaven).

1Co 15:51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed — 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

2. That happens on the Day of the Lord as Paul identifies it.

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.
2TH 2:1 Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers, 2 not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the day of the Lord has already come.

On the Day of the Lord we will see the Dead in Christ rise first and then we who are still alive and are left will be caught up with them on the clouds. So we have two markers here which identify when Jesus is coming for us.

• It is on the Day of the Lord.
• It is on the clouds.

3. The Day of the Lord is when Jesus comes to get us. The Day of the Lord is identified by its signature Sun/moon/star sign:

MT 24:29 "Immediately after the distress of those days
" `the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.'
MT 24:30 "At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

Jesus uses the Sun/moon/star event from prophecy to identify the Day when He comes on the clouds to gather the Elect - just like Paul says in 1Th 4:16-17 which directly relates back to 1Co 15:52.

4. The specific and unique signature sign heralding the Day of the Lord is also revealed by Jesus to John for the sequence of the Day of the Lord in the Seal/Scroll vision given to John:

REV 6:12 I watched as he opened the sixth seal. There was a great earthquake. The sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, the whole moon turned blood red, 13 and the stars in the sky fell to earth, as late figs drop from a fig tree when shaken by a strong wind. 14 The sky receded like a scroll, rolling up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place.

Therefore, we can conclude that Day of the Lord happens at the breaking of the sixth Seal.

- The Day of the Lord is when we are gathered up as Paul said in Second Thessalonians.
- Jesus said that after the Day of the Lord sign comes, the Elect will be gathered.
- Therefore, in the Seal/Scroll account of Revelation chapters 4-11, the Great Multitude are the result of that gathering Harvest of Saints out of the then-shortened time of the Great Tribulation.
- This claim is buttressed by the eyewitness testimony of an Elder who says the Great Multitude come out of the Great Tribulation, which echoes exactly the order Jesus gave in the Olivet Discourse.

The Day of the Lord happens before ANY of the Trumpet Judgments go forth.

• Only after the sixth Seal is broken is the seventh Seal broken.
• Then, and only then, when all the Seals have been broken, can the Scroll, where “desolations have been decreed” from 2500 years ago (Dan 9:26), be read, and only then does the First Trumpet of seven even sound.
• And then, and only then, do we see “desolations” of Biblical proportions inflicted upon creation which in turn creates hardship for the wicked left upon the earth.

The Church is not to endure these conditions:

Rom 2:8 But for those who are self–seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9 There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile.
Rom 5:9 Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him!
1Th 1:10 …and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead —Jesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath.
1Th 5:8 But since we belong to the day, let us be self–controlled, putting on faith and love as a breastplate, and the hope of salvation as a helmet. 9 For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ. 10 He died for us so that, whether we are awake or asleep, we may live together with him.

The Last Trumpet is not the seventh Trumpet.

• The Bible never labels the seventh Trumpet as the Last Trumpet.
• The Last Trumpet calls the Dead in Christ forth to life.
• The seventh Trumpet is blown by an Angel and announces God's Wrath.
• Instead, the “Last Trumpet,” as a named trumpet, is associated with the opening of Rosh ha-Shanah, the fall time Holy Day also known as the Festival of Trumpets.
• It is the first of many different trumpet soundings which occur over the next two days of this special Holy “Day” observance.
• The “Last Trumpet” in Jewish ritual observance, of which Paul was schooled and practiced, is the mirror horn from the blowing of the “First Trumpet” sounded at the Festival of First Fruits in the spring.

The Last Trumpet in end-time prophecy happens after:

1. The one ‘seven’ starts
2. The first half oppression
3. The midpoint abomination(s)
4. The Great Tribulation

It happens on:
The Day of the Lord
It happens before:

1. Any of God’s Wrath goes forth which begins with fire (and the resultant smoke) on the Day of the Lord (second half) – first Trumpet
2. The rest of the Trumpet Judgments (which take time)
3. The final Bowl Judgments (which are the third Woe which is never delineated in the Seal chronology) which complete the one ‘seven’ as per Daniel 9:27.

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

Firstly I said the 7 seal trumpet blasts equates with the Hebrew months, i didnt say the length of each hebrew month is exactly 1:1 unless scripture stipulates the trumoet blasts in Revelation its length to be exactly. As we know it doesnt.

There is no Scriptural support for atin-christ's fanciful notions.

And now he's scrambling to put his scrambled thinking back into one basket.

This sheer nonsense and whimsical musing - not any kind of scholarly work.

 

[Trekson]

InChrist, Your words: "Since the festival year in which all the Mosaic festivals were found was SEVEN MONTHS LONG, the last month -- Tishri"

Actually, there were at least 8 months we know of. Bul was the 8th month but most likely they had twelve. (1 Kings 6:38) The months emboldened under the Biblical Calendar section were the original Canaanite names. The names of the twelve months were changed to the following after the Babylonian captivity of 586 BC and as is known today.

Mo.
#​

Babylonian
Calendar​

Meaning of
Babylonian Months​

Theme of Month
(Babylonian & Biblical)​

Biblical
Calendar​

Meaning of Biblical Months
(Harvesting Schedule)​

Biblical Feasts​

1​

Nisan​

Their flight​

Redemption,
Miracles​

Abib​

Ripening of grain
[Barley, Wheat]​

Passover, Unleavened Bread, Firstfruits​

2​

Iyyar​

(natural) healing​

Introspection,
Self improvement​

Ziv​

Splendor or Radiance [Flowers]
(Barley harvest)​

3​

Sivan​

Bright - their covering​

Giving of Torah​

3rd​

(Wheat harvest)​

Feast of Weeks (Pentecost)​

4​

Tammuz​

Hidden - giver of the vine
(A Phoenician deity)​

Sin of the Golden Calf, guarding of the eyes​

4th​

5​

Av​

Father​

Av the Comforter​

5th​

6​

Elul​

A vain thing - nothingness​

Repentance​

6th​

(Fruit harvest)​

7​

Tishri​

Beginning (from reishit)​

Month of the Strong or Month of the Ancients​

Ethanim​

Ever-flowing streams​

Rosh HaShannah, Yom Kippur, Succot​

8​

Kheshvan​

Eighth​

The Flood
(of Noach)​

Bul​

Produce (in the sense of rain)​

9​

Kislev​

Security, trust​

(Restful) Sleep​

9th​

10​

Tevet​

Good (from "Tov")​

Divine Grace​

10th​

11​

Shevat​

meaning unknown​

Tree of Life​

11th​

12​

Adar​

Strength​

Good Fortune​

12th​

13​

* Adar II​

​

​

​

* Additional month added during Leap Years. About every 3rd year. There are 7 leap years in a 19 year cycle.​

 

[inchrist]

That is the Romans as Josephus and history show.
TITUS gave the order to raze both the Temple and the City.
- Josephus' book: War 7.1.1

Thou shalt not bear false witness

Titus never gave the order to destroy the temple...you are falsely accusing a man.

and thus the holy house burnt down, without Caesar;s approbation. War. 6. 4. 7

Period...now get over your whining.

All you have to grasp on is Titus ording to destroy rubble. You are bording on being pathetic now.

Furthermore, Josephus does not say it was the Syrians that did it.
As auxiliaries, they probably didn't.
Why you want to say it - is that you're grasping at straws.

These were the legions involved
Legion V Macedonia:

Judea or Moesia

Legion X Fretensis:

Syria

Legion XV Appolinaris:

Syria

Legion XII Fulminata:

Asia Minor/Syria

Legion XVIII:

Egypt

Legion III Gallica:

Syria


Publius Cornelius Tacitus:
Titus Caesar…found in Judaea three legions, the 5th, the 10th, and the 15th…To these he added the 12th from Syria, and some men belonging to the 18th and 3rd, whom he had withdrawn from Alexandria. This force was accompanied…by a strong contingent of Arabs, who hated the Jews with the usual hatred of neighbors…"

Now lets look at the make-up of these legions

Sara Elise Phang, Ph.D., author of Roman Military Service, ideologies of discipline in the late Republic and early Principate. States the following:

That Italians were increasingly replaced in the legions during this period by provincials is in itself no longer a novelty among scholars …In the East, that is Asia Minor, Syria and Egypt, it seems clear that local recruitment was well under way under Augustus [d.14 A.D.], so that by his death only a very small number of legionaries derived from Italy or indeed any of the western provinces…Under Nero [d. 68A.D.], when the eastern legions required supplementation…it was to Cappadocia and Galatia that [Rome] looked for recruits. This was doubtless standard procedure. The legions of the East consisted largely of 'orientals' "

Sara Elise Phang, Ph.D., author of Roman Military Service, ideologies of discipline in the late Republic and early Principate. Also states the following:

By AD 69 Gallica III, like other legions long stationed in the East, contained a very high proportion of men born in the eastern provinces” (Phang page 44).

Nigel Pollard, Ph.D., professor of Roman History at Oxford University states the following:

"Legions based in Cappadocia, Syria, and Egypt were made up from of recruits from Asia Minor, Syria, and Egypt”

Flavius Josephus states the following:

The greatest part of the Roman garrison was raised out of Syria; and being thus related to the Syrian part, they were ready to assist it" (The Wars of The Jews, History of the Destruction of Jerusalem

Lets crunch some numbers

A legion contained about 5,000 soldiers.

According to Nigel Pollard, Ph.D., professor of Roman History at Oxford University - "legionaries of provincial birth outnumbered the Italians by about four or five to one.”

That would mean 5,000 Western soldiers in the whole of the invading army and 55-56,000 were all Eastern peoples, this figure would also include auxiliaries who were non-Roman citizens raised up from the fringe of the provinces.

I think its overwhelmingly conclusive Arabs where involved in the destruction of the temple.

And the little cherry on top

the multitude of the Arabians, with the Syrians, cut up those that came as supplicants, and searched their bellies. Nor does it seem to me that any misery befell the Jews that was more terrible than this, since in one night’s time about two thousand of these deserters were thus dissected" (The Wars of the Jews, History of the Destruction of Jerusalem, by Flavius Josephus. Trans. William Whiston, Book V: Chapter 13: Para 4).

In conclusion then, the overwhelming evidence, not only from ancient historians but also modern-day scholarship points us to the ethnic identity of the “Roman” peoples that destroyed Jerusalem and the Temple.

Your honour, I rest my case and the false accusation brought against Titus.

EVEN IF you want to say the Syrians burnt the Temple, Jesus does not come from them.

That was never my argument, the people Daniel is referring to was the Israelites. All blame on the destruction of the temple lays at the door of the Jewish people.

Equating the Greek, which is not in Daniel 9:26 is your error in your persistent fanaticism to destroy.

Dont be such a child....

The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary.

Greek archón = a ruler, prince, leader
Hebrew nagid = a leader, ruler, prince

They are the same in translation. Oh wait...snow the back up .... are you telling me one is not allowed to translate from Hebrew to Greek and Greek to Hebrew? Is this a joke? And you call yourself a scholar? Or do you just make up your own rules as you go along? I dont know how anyone can take you serously....honestly what goes through head?

And so the Prince is not Jesus even if you want to say that.

I dont, Daniel does, its called context....heretic.

AND Jesus NEVER "prevailed" (by force) seven years of anything.

Indeed you expose yourself to knowing absolutly nothing, so this gives me great pleasure

"gabar” throughout scripture is used in connection with the House of Judah and the House of Joseph and their restoration.

Zechariah 10:6 And I will strengthen [gabar #H1396] the house of Yahuwdah (Judah), and I will save the house of Yahuwceph (Joseph), and I will bring them again to place them; for I have mercy upon them: and they shall be as though I had not cast them off: for I am YHWH their Elohiym, and will hear them.

Zechariah 10:12And. I will strengthen [gabar #H1396] them in YHWH; and they shall walk up and down in his name, says YHWH.

Isaiah 42:13 YHWH shall go forth as a mighty man, he shall stir up jealousy like a man of war: he shall cry, yea, roar; he shall prevail [gabar #H1396] against his enemies.

1stChronicles 5:2 For Yahuwdah (Judah) prevailed [gabar #H1396} above his brethren, and of him came the chief ruler ; but the birthright was Yahuwceph’s (Joseph’s).

Genesis 49:26 The blessings of your father have prevailed [gabar #H1396] above the blessings of my progenitors unto the utmost bound of the everlasting hills: they shall be on the head of Yahuwceph (Joseph), and on the crown of the head of him that was separate from his brethren.

Now “Gabar” has only three Hebrew Letters

Gimmel = Foot or burden-bearer, to gather, carry away.
Beyt = the House of Yisra’el.
Resh = the head of a man, first, beginning, chief ruler.

The very word "Gabar" pictures Christ.

Lets look at the next word "briyth" (covenant)

There is an established rule of interpreting scripture and this is called - The Law of First Mention. In otherwords the first time that a concept is presented in scripture, it then becomes the precedent for when the same concept is presented again in other scriptures.

For example, Genesis 15:9 is the first time the concept of briyth is used

Genesis 15:9 And he said unto him, Take me an heifer of three years old, and a she goat of three years old, and a ram of three years old, and a turtledove, and a young pigeon.

Heifer, Ram and Goat ised for passover and Christ our messiah portrayed the role of all three of these animal sacrifices during his earthly ministry of 3.5 years.

Now of we go to Genesis 15:10

And he took unto him all these, and divided them in the midst, and laid each piece one against another

And what does Daniel 9:27 tell us that Messiah would do? It says that he would “cause the sacrifices to cease in the midst of the week

Now the next bit is important as its a prophecy that would concern the House of Judah and the House of Joseph being divided as the covenant jas been breached. The animal pieces in Abraham’s covenant were divided in order to restore the schism in both houses ( the house of Judah and the house of Ephraim - the christian house) and this is also why in the midst of the week the last seven years of Daniel’s 70th Week was divided into two parts of 3.5 years.

Christ fulfilled only “half” of Daniel’s 70th Week and then he will fulfill the other “half” through his Two Witnesses, so that both families will no longer be divided

Hence the below reenactment.

Genesis 15:17 And it came to pass, that, when the sun went down, and it was dark, behold a smoking furnace, and a burning lamp that passed between those pieces.

God gave Abraham details of this covenant by telling him that his descendants would become more numerous than the stars of the heaven and the sand on the seashore. In other words, Abraham would have descendants from the Gentiles nations who would be grafted into the family through the blood of Christ.

Genesis 22:17 That in blessing I will bless you, and in multiplying I will multiply your seed as the stars of the heaven,and as the sand which is upon the sea shore;

And this brings us to the Daniel 9:27 “many”

Mark 14:24 And he said unto them, This is my blood of the new covenant, which is shed for MANY.

Now what Marcus fails to grasp is the work Christ come for and that ultimately did not get.

In the story of Jacob, Rachel amd Leah

Jacob worked for one week (seven years) for Rachel but Jacob was tricked into Leah. Jacob didnt get what he worked for. Loke wise did not get what he came for:

John 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

So Christ come for the lost sheep of Israel who were gentiles now being divorced from God and that is when he was given in marriage first to the Gentiles (a symbol of Leah).

We find another prophetic type

King Solomon who was ready to slice a baby in half with a sword.

Both the woman in this story were harlots, just like the house of Judah and the House of Ephraim.

The dead baby represents the crucified Messiah but the living baby represents the resurrected Messiah who is able to redeem these two harlots.

The child represents the inheritance, and as long as both women are in rivalry, the kingdom will continue to be divided and it cannot stand

The woman who loved the child was like the“wise virgin” who would then inherit the “the entire living child” and not a dead child divided into two parts.

Now you can see why Christ had to divide the two periods of seven years that Jacob worked for Leah & Rachel, and why he was cutting in half those two periods of seven years. In other words, he was “cutting the covenant” in two pieces, just like God did with Abraham.


In no other place in the whole of scripture do we find that the Anti Christ “confirms” a covenant for one week.

Scripture demands we must have two or three witnesses elsewhere in scripture to make a doctrine out of this heretic theory.

Marcus is completely out of his depth concerning these matters. Perhaps pick up a bible and read it next time!

 

[inchrist]

Nope. Made up entirely.

The seventh Trumpet of God's Wrath is not God's Last Trumpet calling the Elect to Heaven.

Here, logically from Scripture, is why the Last Trumpet is not the seventh Trumpet of God's Wrath.

1. The Last Trumpet calls the Dead forth from Paradise (the ends of Heaven).


1Co 15:51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed — 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

2. That happens on the Day of the Lord as Paul identifies it.

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.
2TH 2:1 Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers, 2 not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the day of the Lord has already come.

On the Day of the Lord we will see the Dead in Christ rise first and then we who are still alive and are left will be caught up with them on the clouds. So we have two markers here which identify when Jesus is coming for us.

• It is on the Day of the Lord.
• It is on the clouds.

3. The Day of the Lord is when Jesus comes to get us. The Day of the Lord is identified by its signature Sun/moon/star sign:

MT 24:29 "Immediately after the distress of those days
" `the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.'
MT 24:30 "At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

Jesus uses the Sun/moon/star event from prophecy to identify the Day when He comes on the clouds to gather the Elect - just like Paul says in 1Th 4:16-17 which directly relates back to 1Co 15:52.

4. The specific and unique signature sign heralding the Day of the Lord is also revealed by Jesus to John for the sequence of the Day of the Lord in the Seal/Scroll vision given to John:

REV 6:12 I watched as he opened the sixth seal. There was a great earthquake. The sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, the whole moon turned blood red, 13 and the stars in the sky fell to earth, as late figs drop from a fig tree when shaken by a strong wind. 14 The sky receded like a scroll, rolling up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place.

Therefore, we can conclude that Day of the Lord happens at the breaking of the sixth Seal.

- The Day of the Lord is when we are gathered up as Paul said in Second Thessalonians.
- Jesus said that after the Day of the Lord sign comes, the Elect will be gathered.
- Therefore, in the Seal/Scroll account of Revelation chapters 4-11, the Great Multitude are the result of that gathering Harvest of Saints out of the then-shortened time of the Great Tribulation.
- This claim is buttressed by the eyewitness testimony of an Elder who says the Great Multitude come out of the Great Tribulation, which echoes exactly the order Jesus gave in the Olivet Discourse.

The Day of the Lord happens before ANY of the Trumpet Judgments go forth.

• Only after the sixth Seal is broken is the seventh Seal broken.
• Then, and only then, when all the Seals have been broken, can the Scroll, where “desolations have been decreed” from 2500 years ago (Dan 9:26), be read, and only then does the First Trumpet of seven even sound.
• And then, and only then, do we see “desolations” of Biblical proportions inflicted upon creation which in turn creates hardship for the wicked left upon the earth.

The Church is not to endure these conditions:

Rom 2:8 But for those who are self–seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9 There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile.
Rom 5:9 Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him!
1Th 1:10 …and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead —Jesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath.
1Th 5:8 But since we belong to the day, let us be self–controlled, putting on faith and love as a breastplate, and the hope of salvation as a helmet. 9 For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ. 10 He died for us so that, whether we are awake or asleep, we may live together with him.

The Last Trumpet is not the seventh Trumpet.

• The Bible never labels the seventh Trumpet as the Last Trumpet.
• The Last Trumpet calls the Dead in Christ forth to life.
• The seventh Trumpet is blown by an Angel and announces God's Wrath.
• Instead, the “Last Trumpet,” as a named trumpet, is associated with the opening of Rosh ha-Shanah, the fall time Holy Day also known as the Festival of Trumpets.
• It is the first of many different trumpet soundings which occur over the next two days of this special Holy “Day” observance.
• The “Last Trumpet” in Jewish ritual observance, of which Paul was schooled and practiced, is the mirror horn from the blowing of the “First Trumpet” sounded at the Festival of First Fruits in the spring.

The Last Trumpet in end-time prophecy happens after:

1. The one ‘seven’ starts
2. The first half oppression
3. The midpoint abomination(s)
4. The Great Tribulation

It happens on:
The Day of the Lord
It happens before:

1. Any of God’s Wrath goes forth which begins with fire (and the resultant smoke) on the Day of the Lord (second half) – first Trumpet
2. The rest of the Trumpet Judgments (which take time)
3. The final Bowl Judgments (which are the third Woe which is never delineated in the Seal chronology) which complete the one ‘seven’ as per Daniel 9:27.

Yawn....

The 6th seal where the following is stated:

Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb!

Is not the word of God, the following is the word of God in Rev 11:18

The nations were angry, and your wrath has come.

The cosmic signs carry well into the 7th seal, further it is also the time of the 2 witnesses....not Gods wrath.

Further Rosh Hashanah idioms are only found in the 7th trumpet here again is Rev 11:18

The nations were angry, and your wrath has come. The time has come for judging the dead, and for rewarding your servants the prophets and your people who revere your name, both great and small-- and for destroying those who destroy the earth."

Can you identify them? No of cause you cant

 

[inchrist]

There is no Scriptural support for atin-christ's fanciful notions.

And now he's scrambling to put his scrambled thinking back into one basket.

This sheer nonsense and whimsical musing - not any kind of scholarly work.

I did so here it is again

"...at the beginnings of your months, you shall blow the trumpet over your burnt offerings and over the sacrifices of your peace offerings..." (Numbers 10:10).

And Rev 8:6

Two scriptural witnesses, more than what I can say about your antichrist associated with the covenant. Daniel 9:26 &27

I actually feel sorry for you prewraths, everything in scripture must seem like coincidences for you guys

 

[inchrist]

InChrist, Your words: "Since the festival year in which all the Mosaic festivals were found was SEVEN MONTHS LONG, the last month -- Tishri"

Actually, there were at least 8 months we know of. Bul was the 8th month but most likely they had twelve. (1 Kings 6:38) The months emboldened under the Biblical Calendar section were the original Canaanite names. The names of the twelve months were changed to the following after the Babylonian captivity of 586 BC and as is known today.

Mo.
#​

Babylonian
Calendar​

Meaning of
Babylonian Months​

Theme of Month
(Babylonian & Biblical)​

Biblical
Calendar​

Meaning of Biblical Months(Harvesting Schedule)​

Biblical Feasts​

1​

Nisan​

Their flight​

Redemption,
Miracles​

Abib​

Ripening of grain
[Barley, Wheat]​

Passover, Unleavened Bread, Firstfruits​

2​

Iyyar​

(natural) healing​

Introspection,
Self improvement​

Ziv​

Splendor or Radiance [Flowers](Barley harvest)​

3​

Sivan​

Bright - their covering​

Giving of Torah​

3rd​

(Wheat harvest)​

Feast of Weeks (Pentecost)​

4​

Tammuz​

Hidden - giver of the vine
(A Phoenician deity)​

Sin of the Golden Calf, guarding of the eyes​

4th​

5​

Av​

Father​

Av the Comforter​

5th​

6​

Elul​

A vain thing - nothingness​

Repentance​

6th​

(Fruit harvest)​

7​

Tishri​

Beginning (from reishit)​

Month of the Strong or Month of the Ancients​

Ethanim​

Ever-flowing streams​

Rosh HaShannah, Yom Kippur, Succot​

8​

Kheshvan​

Eighth​

The Flood
(of Noach)​

Bul​

Produce (in the sense of rain)​

9​

Kislev​

Security, trust​

(Restful) Sleep​

9th​

10​

Tevet​

Good (from "Tov")​

Divine Grace​

10th​

11​

Shevat​

meaning unknown​

Tree of Life​

11th​

12​

Adar​

Strength​

Good Fortune​

12th​

13​

* Adar II​

​

​

​

* Additional month added during Leap Years. About every 3rd year. There are 7 leap years in a 19 year cycle.​

And did you notice where the feasts occurs?

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

Thou shalt not bear false witness

Titus never gave the order to destroy the temple...you are falsely accusing a man.

and thus the holy house burnt down, without Caesar;s approbation. War. 6. 4. 7

Period...now get over your whining.

Boy talk about a stuck pig!

War. 7. 1. 1
(1) Now, as soon as the army had no more people to slay or to plunder, because there remained none to be objects of their fury (for they would not have spared any, had there remained any other such work to be done) Caesar gave orders that they should now demolish the entire city and temple, but should leave as many of the towers standing as were of the greatest eminency; that is, Phasaelus, and Hippicus, and Mariamne, and so much of the wall as enclosed the city on the west side.

There it is in black and white boy. Titus gave the order to raze the city and the Temple.
THE ROMANS DESTROYED THE CITY AND THE SANCTUARY.

False witness atin-christ? I've got the last laugh on you.

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

Can you identify them? No of cause you cant

There is no Wrath of God with the sixth Seal.

The wicked utter that - having been told by three Angels what awaits them.

But they don't get God right any more than you do - and they're wrong when they say that is the NEXT thing to happen.

The next thing to happen is the Rapture.

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

"...at the beginnings of your months, you shall blow the trumpet over your burnt offerings and over the sacrifices of your peace offerings..." (Numbers 10:10).

Scripture trumps your silly insistence.

Col 2:16 Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day— 17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.

The blowing of the Trumpets of God's Wrath is not linked to the Festivals or announcing the new moons in any prophecy. And Paul says they are not to be taken literally either - but foreshadow what is to come. atin-christ is making things up in his own strange way of thinking.

Here again, a poor student is just stapling things together willy-nilly.

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

Can you identify them? No of cause you cant

What you can't refute is the linking of Scripture which shows the Last Trumpet of God that HE blows is not the seventh Trumpet of God's Wrath that an Angel blows.