ANALYSIS OF MATTHEW 24:12-13 - WHY IT DISPROVES OSAS

[ATP]

Rev. 3:5 says,

5 He who overcomes will thus be clothed in white garments; and I will
not erase his name from the book of life, and I will confess his name
before My Father and before His angels.

Could you please explain this scripture to the audience.

Logabe

Sure. Overcoming is based on belief and not our works.

The victory has already been won, not by our works but by the works of the cross and the shed blood of Christ.

1 John 5:4-5 NIV for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. 5Who is it that overcomes the world? Only the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.

Rev 3:5 NIV The one who is victorious will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out the name of that person from the book of life, but will acknowledge that name before my Father and his angels.

Ok, so they are falling away from nothing. "Be careful lest you fall away from nothing and lose the root of salvation you dont really have. Be careful lest you get cut off from the one to whom you really arent attached. Watch out lest your name blotted from the book of life...in which it really was never written to begin with. Abide in me, but of course, if you really abide in me, you can do no other but abide in me because I will not let you cease abiding in me." You are rendering passages in the Bible meaningless in order to preserve a theological agenda.

I would disagree with your interpretation here. Scripture clearly says nonbelievers can have the truth and knowledge of God but never come to faith in Jesus Christ.

Rom 1:18 NIV The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness,

Rom 1:21 NIV For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.

Rom 1:25 NIV They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

Rom 1:28 NIV Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done.

2 Pet 2:20 NIV If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and are overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning.

 

[ATP]

2 Pet 2:1 NIV - The chapter starts off by telling us who the audience is, false prophets and false teachers. 2 Pet 2:1 NIV also explains how they deny Christ. Those who deny the deity of Christ are nonbelievers and are of the antichrist spirit Tit 1:15-16 NIV, 1 John 2:22 NIV, Jude 1:4-7 NIV.

2 Pet 2:3 NIV - This verse clearly tells us that these people are still condemned, but believers in Christ are no longer condemned by God...Mark 16:16 NIV, John 3:18 NIV, John 5:28-29 NIV, John 8:11 NIV, John 16:11 NIV, Rom 3:6-8 NIV, Rom 5:16 NIV, Rom 8:1-2 NIV, Rom 8:34 ESV, Col 2:13-15 NIV, 2 Thess 2:11-12 NIV, 2 Pet 2:3 NIV, 1 John 3:21 NIV, Jude 1:4-5 NIV.

2 Pet 2:8 NIV - This verse clearly separates the righteous from the lawless, and scripture clearly states that believers are no longer condemned as lawless. We are no longer of the antichrist spirit...2 Thess 2:3 NIV, 2 Thess 2:7-9 NIV, Heb 10:17 NIV, 2 Pet 2:7-8 NIV.

2 Pet 2:9 NIV - This verse clearly states that the unrighteous are held for punishment on the day of judgment, but scripture clearly states that nonbelievers are the one's who will experience punishment...Dan 12:1 NIV, Matt 24:21-22 NIV, John 3:36 NIV, John 5:29 NIV, John 6:35-40 NIV *, John 6:54 NIV, John 12:48 NIV, Rom 2:5 NIV, Rom 5:9 NIV, 1 Thess 1:9-10 NIV, 1 Thess 5:9-10 NIV, Heb 4:3 ESV, Rev 3:10 NIV.

Scripture also states that believers will not be punished, rather we will be rewarded at the Bema Seat of Christ...Matt 5:12 NIV, Matt 6:20 NIV, 1 Cor 3:13-15 NIV, 1 Cor 9:24-27 NIV, Phil 3:12-14 NIV, Col 2:18 NIV, 1 Thess 2:19 NIV, 2 Tim 2:5 NIV, 2 Tim 4:8 NIV, Heb 10:34-35 NIV, James 1:12 NIV, 1 Pet 5:2-4 NIV, 2 John 1:8-11 NIV, Rev 2:10 NIV, Rev 3:11 NIV, Rev 11:18 NIV, Rev 22:12 NIV.

2 Pet 2:14 NIV - This verse clearly tells us that these people never stop sinning, but believers in Christ no longer keep on sinning...Rom 6:14 NIV, 1 John 3:6 NIV, 1 John 3:9 NIV, 1 John 5:18 NIV.

2 Pet 2:17 NIV - This verse clearly tells us that these people are springs without water, but scripture tells us that believers in Christ are springs WITH water...John 4:13-14 NIV, John 7:38-39 NIV, 1 Pet 3:21 NIV, Rev 7:17 NIV, Rev 21:6 NIV, Rev 22:1-2 NIV, Rev 22:17 NIV.

 

[Wormwood]

I would disagree with your interpretation here. Scripture clearly says nonbelievers can have the truth and knowledge of God but never come to faith in Jesus Christ.

The NT epistles were written to churches! Jesus was telling the Apostles to abide in him in John 15. These are unbelievers? Moreover, you dont tell an unbeliever to "abide" or to watch out lest they be "cut off" or "fall away." No, you tell them to believe, join, accept, etc.

Romans 1:18-28 is talking about the pagan and general revelation from God that leaves them without excuse for acting wickedly. This has nothing to do with Jesus telling the Apostles to "abide" in him or Peter telling those who "have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours" (2 Peter 1:1) to not turn back.

 

[StanJ]

What?

I think I must have stumbled in at a bad time...

Getting a little frustrated, WW??

No doubt he is, but I don't see ANYTHING wrong with his post, so are you getting even more bored?

 

[ATP]

The NT epistles were written to churches! Jesus was telling the Apostles to abide in him in John 15. These are unbelievers? Moreover, you dont tell an unbeliever to "abide" or to watch out lest they be "cut off" or "fall away." No, you tell them to believe, join, accept, etc.

Using John 15 allegory to disprove OSAS is like using Luke 16:19-31 to prove soul sleep is false. Do you understand the difference between literal and non literal. As Christians and teachers of the Word, we need to know what is a metaphor, or what is a vision vs........literal language.

Rom 11:22 NIV - This passage is also a metaphor. If we don’t continue in His goodness, it’s a sign that we never really took nourishment from the olive root. Remember, the natural branches (Jews) were only cut off because they never believed that Jesus was the Messiah, not because they believed at one time and then stopped. It’s the same with the wild ones (Gentiles). If we are not forever saved, we were never saved. In fact, Rom 11:16-24 NIV in its entirety is being used as a metaphor for God's relationship with non believing Jews and believing Gentiles..

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=Rom+11:11-24+NIV+metaphor

http://www.tyndalehouse.com/Bulletin/64=2013/06_Khobnya_17.pdf

http://www.studylight.org/commentary/romans/11-22.html

Romans 1:18-28 is talking about the pagan and general revelation from God that leaves them without excuse for acting wickedly. This has nothing to do with Jesus telling the Apostles to "abide" in him or Peter telling those who "have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours" (2 Peter 1:1) to not turn back.

Rom 1:18-28 is about nonbelievers who have heard the truth but have yet to believe in their heart and are still under the wrath of God Rom 1:18 NIV.

Believers are no longer appointed to wrath..Job 21:30 NIV, Isa 26:20 NIV, Dan 12:1-2 NIV, Matt 3:12 NIV, John 3:36 NIV, Rom 5:9 NIV, Eph 2:3 NIV, 1 Thess 1:10 NIV, 1 Thess 5:9 NIV

Notice how once we hear this message we are then sealed until redemption. What is this message they speak of here in Eph 1:13 NIV and Heb 4:2 NIV...

Eph 1:13-14 NIV And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

Heb 2:1-3 NIV We must pay the most careful attention, therefore, to what we have heard, so that we do not drift away. 2For since the message spoken through angels was binding, and every violation and disobedience received its just punishment, 3how shall we escape if we ignore so great a salvation? This salvation, which was first announced by the Lord, was confirmed to us by those who heard him.

Heb 4:1-2 NIV Therefore, since the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us be careful that none of you be found to have fallen short of it. 2For we also have had the good news proclaimed to us, just as they did; but the message they heard was of no value to them, because they did not share the faith of those who obeyed.

 

[Wormwood]

Using John 15 allegory to disprove OSAS is like using Luke 16:19-31 to prove soul sleep is false. Do you understand the difference between literal and non literal. As Christians and teachers of the Word, we need to know what is a metaphor, or what is a vision vs........literal language.

The vine imagery is an illustration, not an allegory. An allegory is when someone provides a spiritual meaning to a text that may or may not be apparent. For instance, Augustine allegorized the parable of the Good Samaritan and said things like the Samaritan = Jesus Christ, the donkey = the Church, and so forth. Thus, it is finding spiritual meaning in the text. Another example would be that some allegorize the Song of Songs. They identify the woman with the Church and Solomon as Jesus and so forth.

The imagery of the vine in John 15 is simply an illustration and a metaphor. It is no different than when John said Jesus would sift his threshing floor and burn the chaff with unquenchable fire. It is just a mental picture that helps us understand what is being said. Jesus' message is very very clear. I am the vine, you are the branches. Abide in me. If you dont, you are like a branch that is cut off, withers and dies and is fit for nothing but to be burned.

You are basically saying this very simple illustration that is used to help clarify and illustrate the importance of abiding in Christ actually makes the entire section nebulous and meaningless.

I agree that believers are not appointed to wrath. An apostate is not a believer.

 

[ATP]

The vine imagery is an illustration, not an allegory.

The imagery of the vine in John 15 is simply an illustration and a metaphor.

No Wormwood. Illustration, allegory, metaphor, non literal are all synonyms of each other..http://www.thesaurus.com/browse/allegory?s=t

allegory - http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/allegory?s=t
noun (pl) -ries
1. a poem, play, picture, etc, in which the apparent meaning of the characters and events is used to symbolize a deeper moral or spiritual meaning
2. the technique or genre that this represents
3. use of such symbolism to illustrate truth or a moral
4. anything used as a symbol or emblem

allegory in Culture - http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/allegory?s=t
allegory [( al -uh-gawr-ee)]

A story that has a deeper or more general meaning in addition to its surface meaning. Allegories are composed of several symbols or metaphors. For example, in The Pilgrim's Progress, by John Bunyan, the character named Christian struggles to escape from a bog or swamp. The story of his difficulty is a symbol of the difficulty of leading a good life in the “bog” of this world. The “bog” is a metaphor or symbol of life's hardships and distractions. Similarly, when Christian loses a heavy pack that he has been carrying on his back, this symbolizes his freedom from the weight of sin that he has been carrying.

 

[ATP]

You are basically saying this very simple illustration that is used to help clarify and illustrate the importance of abiding in Christ actually makes the entire section nebulous and meaningless.

It's not meaningless, rather it's simply deeper in context. If we take allegories as literal or historical then God is contradictory and a liar. On one hand God teaches the perseverance of the saints, and on the other He doesn't. Is God a liar? Do you not believe the testimony of God?

1 John 5:9-14 NIV We accept human testimony, but God’s testimony is greater because it is the testimony of God, which he has given about his Son. 10Whoever believes in the Son of God accepts this testimony. Whoever does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because they have not believed the testimony God has given about his Son. 11And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life. 14This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us.

 

[Phoneman777]

It's not meaningless, rather it's simply deeper in context. If we take allegories as literal or historical then God is contradictory and a liar. On one hand God teaches the perseverance of the saints, and on the other He doesn't. Is God a liar? Do you not believe the testimony of God?

1 John 5:9-14 NIV We accept human testimony, but God’s testimony is greater because it is the testimony of God, which he has given about his Son. 10Whoever believes in the Son of God accepts this testimony. Whoever does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because they have not believed the testimony God has given about his Son. 11And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life. 14This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us.

Hi, ATP, regarding the Unmerciful Servant, I agree that the parable of the Unmerciful Steward requires interpretation: we obviously don't literally believe that Jesus was referring to a literal king, steward, or the other elements of the parable. But, when interpreting the parable, your OSAS belief has prevented you from arriving at the true interpretation of the parable - (1) that the king is God, (2) the Unmerciful Steward is any sinner who has accepted His free offer of grace and forgiveness but refuses to manifest the same character of God in his actions, namely manifesting forgiveness toward others, and (3) this refusal results in withdrawal of forgiveness and reinstatement of the former condemnation.

Even Jesus said we are to pray "forgive us our debts AS WE FORGIVE OUR DEBTORS" which actually means "Lord, don't forgive me unless I forgive others." This denotes a continual, ongoing relationship with God, not a "one and done" experience such as is taught by OSAS.

 

[ATP]

(3) this refusal results in withdrawal of forgiveness and reinstatement of the former condemnation.

contradict / verb (used with object)
1. to assert the contrary or opposite of; deny directly and categorically.
2. to speak contrary to the assertions of: to contradict oneself.
3. (of an action or event) to imply a denial of: His way of life contradicts his stated principles.
4. Obsolete. to speak or declare against; oppose.

Mark 16:16 NIV Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

John 3:18 NIV Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.

Rom 5:16 NIV Again, the gift of God is not like the result of the one man's sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification.

Rom 8:1-2 NIV Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death.

Rom 8:34 ESV Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died--more than that, who was raised--who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us.

Col 2:13-15 NIV When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us ALL our sins, 14having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross. 15And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.

2 Thess 2:11-12 NIV For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12 and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

 

[ATP]

Psa 18:2 NIV The Lord is my rock, my fortress and my deliverer; my God is my rock, in whom I take refuge, my shield and the horn of my salvation, my stronghold.

Psa 21:4 NIV He asked you for life, and you gave it to him—length of days, for ever and ever.

Psalm 28:8-9 NIV The Lord is the strength of his people, a fortress of salvation for his anointed one. 9Save your people and bless your inheritance; be their shepherd and carry them forever.

Psalm 33:11-12 NIV But the plans of the Lord stand firm forever, the purposes of his heart through all generations. 12Blessed is the nation whose God is the Lord, the people he chose for his inheritance.

Psa 44:23-26 NIV Awake, Lord! Why do you sleep? Rouse yourself! Do not reject us forever. 24Why do you hide your face and forget our misery and oppression? 25We are brought down to the dust; our bodies cling to the ground. 26Rise up and help us; rescue us because of your unfailing love.

Psa 48:8-9 NIV As we have heard, so we have seen in the city of the Lord Almighty, in the city of our God: God makes her secure forever. 9Within your temple, O God, we meditate on your unfailing love.

Psa 48:14 NIV For this God is our God for ever and ever; he will be our guide even to the end.

Psalm 107:1-2 NIV Give thanks to the Lord, for he is good; his love endures forever. 2Let the redeemed of the Lord tell their story—those he redeemed from the hand of the foe,

 

[Phoneman777]

contradict / verb (used with object)
1. to assert the contrary or opposite of; deny directly and categorically.
2. to speak contrary to the assertions of: to contradict oneself.
3. (of an action or event) to imply a denial of: His way of life contradicts his stated principles.
4. Obsolete. to speak or declare against; oppose.

Mark 16:16 NIV Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

John 3:18 NIV Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.

Rom 5:16 NIV Again, the gift of God is not like the result of the one man's sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification.

Rom 8:1-2 NIV Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death.

Rom 8:34 ESV Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died--more than that, who was raised--who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us.

Col 2:13-15 NIV When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us ALL our sins, 14having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross. 15And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.

2 Thess 2:11-12 NIV For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12 and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

ATP, you make no attempt to claim the king is anything other than God and that the Unmerciful Servant is anything other than us. Why? Because it is so obvious. Yet, when it comes to the punishment, you take a direct illustration of reinstated punishment and make it to mean the opposite of what is said.

 

[ATP]

Yet, when it comes to the punishment, you take a direct illustration of reinstated punishment and make it to mean the opposite of what is said.

Isn't Luke 16:19-31 also an illustration of soul sleep. God says once we believe we are no longer condemned.

Psa 48:14 NIV For this God is our God for ever and ever; he will be our guide even to the end.

 

[ATP]

Perseverance of the saints.....

James 1:12 NIV Blessed is the one who perseveres under trial because, having stood the test, that person will receive the crown of life that the Lord has promised to those who love him.

Acts 2:32-33 NIV God has raised this Jesus to life, and we are all witnesses of it. 33Exalted to the right hand of God, he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear.

Gal 3:13-14 NIV Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole.” 14He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.

Gal 3:18 NIV For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on the promise; but God in his grace gave it to Abraham through a promise.

Gal 3:21-22 NIV Is the law, therefore, opposed to the promises of God? Absolutely not! For if a law had been given that could impart life, then righteousness would certainly have come by the law. 22But Scripture has locked up everything under the control of sin, so that what was promised, being given through faith in Jesus Christ, might be given to those who believe.

Eph 1:13-14 NIV And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

Eph 3:6 NIV This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.

Tit 1:1-3 NIV Paul, a servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ to further the faith of God’s elect and their knowledge of the truth that leads to godliness— 2in the hope of eternal life, which God, who does not lie, promised before the beginning of time, 3and which now at his appointed season he has brought to light through the preaching entrusted to me by the command of God our Savior,

Heb 9:15 NIV For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance—now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.

2 Pet 1:3-4 NIV His divine power has given us everything we need for a godly life through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness. 4Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature, having escaped the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.

 

[ATP]

We received the crown of life when we believed. Eternal life...

James 1:12 NIV Blessed is the one who perseveres under trial because, having stood the test, that person will receive the crown of life that the Lord has promised to those who love him.

John 3:14-16 NIV Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15 that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

John 5:24 NIV “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

John 6:40 NIV For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

John 6:47 NIV Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life.

John 6:54 NIV Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

John 10:25-30 NIV Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, 26but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30I and the Father are one.”

Acts 13:46-48 NIV Then Paul and Barnabas answered them boldly: "We had to speak the word of God to you first. Since you reject it and do not consider yourselves worthy of eternal life, we now turn to the Gentiles. 47 For this is what the Lord has commanded us: " 'I have made you a light for the Gentiles, that you may bring salvation to the ends of the earth.' " 48 When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed for eternal life believed.

Rom 6:22-23 NIV But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Eph 1:13-14 NIV And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

1 Tim 1:15-16 NIV Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners—of whom I am the worst. 16But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life.

Tit 1:1-3 NIV Paul, a servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ to further the faith of God’s elect and their knowledge of the truth that leads to godliness— 2in the hope of eternal life, which God, who does not lie, promised before the beginning of time, 3and which now at his appointed season he has brought to light through the preaching entrusted to me by the command of God our Savior,

Heb 9:12 NIV He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, having obtained eternal redemption.

1 John 5:9-14 NIV / Psa 21:4 NIV We accept human testimony, but God’s testimony is greater because it is the testimony of God, which he has given about his Son. 10Whoever believes in the Son of God accepts this testimony. Whoever does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because they have not believed the testimony God has given about his Son. 11And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life. 14This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us.

 

[ATP]

ATP, you make no attempt to claim the king is anything other than God and that the Unmerciful Servant is anything other than us. Why? Because it is so obvious. Yet, when it comes to the punishment, you take a direct illustration of reinstated punishment and make it to mean the opposite of what is said.

Psa 21:4 NIV He asked you for life, and you gave it to him—length of days, for ever and ever.

Psalm 107:1-2 NIV Give thanks to the Lord, for he is good; his love endures forever. 2Let the redeemed of the Lord tell their story—those he redeemed from the hand of the foe,

 

[ATP]

Yet, when it comes to the punishment, you take a direct illustration of reinstated punishment and make it to mean the opposite of what is said.

I suggest you read a book on sanctification. There are two kinds of sanctification, definitive and progressive. He will sanctify His chosen until the end.

John 6:35-40 NIV Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty. 36But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. 37All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. 38For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. 39And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. 40For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

John 17:12 NIV While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled.

 

[ATP]

Psalm 62:1-2 NIV Truly my soul finds rest in God; my salvation comes from him. 2Truly he is my rock and my salvation; he is my fortress, I will never be shaken.

Psalm 73:26 NIV My flesh and my heart may fail, but God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever.

Psalm 89:1-4 NIV I will sing of the Lord’s great love forever; with my mouth I will make your faithfulness known through all generations. 2I will declare that your love stands firm forever, that you have established your faithfulness in heaven itself. 3You said, “I have made a covenant with my chosen one, I have sworn to David my servant, 4‘I will establish your line forever and make your throne firm through all generations.’ ”

Psalm 94:16-18 NIV Who will rise up for me against the wicked? Who will take a stand for me against evildoers? 17Unless the Lord had given me help, I would soon have dwelt in the silence of death. 18When I said, “My foot is slipping,” your unfailing love, Lord, supported me.

Psalm 100:4-5 NIV Enter his gates with thanksgiving and his courts with praise; give thanks to him and praise his name. 5For the Lord is good and his love endures forever; his faithfulness continues through all generations.

Psalm 106:1 NIV Praise the Lord. Give thanks to the Lord, for he is good; his love endures forever.

Psalm 107:1-2 NIV / Psalm 103:4 NIV Give thanks to the Lord, for he is good; his love endures forever. 2Let the redeemed of the Lord tell their story—those he redeemed from the hand of the foe,

 

[Phoneman777]

I suggest you read a book on sanctification. There are two kinds of sanctification, definitive and progressive. He will sanctify His chosen until the end.

John 6:35-40 NIV Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty. 36But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. 37All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. 38For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. 39And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. 40For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

John 17:12 NIV While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled

ATP, belief in Christ is useless if it doesn't lead us to surrender to His will which is to stop sinning and produce works of obedience, according to James, Jesus, John, Paul, etc.. And when we surrender to Him, the Holy Spirit begins the sanctifying process - the chiseling away of our character defects - while we are simultaneously credited with the blemish free character of Jesus.

If at any time we reach out and snatch the chisel out of His hand and say "no more", we are no longer surrendered to His authority and continued refusal to surrender again to His authority will result in the same fate of the Unmerciful Servant - the reinstatement of the former penalty. God's love is unconditional, but His salvation is conditional - belief in Him as both our Savior from sin and our Lord to be obeyed. OSAS doesn't want Him as our Lord, just our Savior and this can never be.

 

[Phoneman777]

Psa 21:4 NIV He asked you for life, and you gave it to him—length of days, for ever and ever.

Psalm 107:1-2 NIV Give thanks to the Lord, for he is good; his love endures forever. 2Let the redeemed of the Lord tell their story—those he redeemed from the hand of the foe,

The fact that the Unmerciful Servant was forgiven his impossible debt but through refusal to allow his character to reflect that of his King, was condemned again is proof positive that any redeemed person who have been forgiven of the debt of sin but refuses to allow His character to be reflected in the life will be lost. There is simply no other way to interpret the parable, ATP.