ANALYSIS OF MATTHEW 24:12-13 - WHY IT DISPROVES OSAS

[ATP]

They most certainly do:

"And in the synagogue there was a man, which had a spirit of an unclean devil, and cried out with a loud voice, Saying, Let [us] alone; what have we to do with thee, [thou] Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art; the Holy One of God." Luke 4:33-34 KJV

Demons know Jesus is God, but they do not confess Him as Lord and Savior. They have no faith. They are not saved creatures.

Rom 10:9-10 NIV If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.

 

[Phoneman777]

Demons know Jesus is God, but they do not confess Him as Lord and Savior. They have no faith. They are not saved creatures.

Rom 10:9-10 NIV If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.

ATP, do you understand that by saying "Holy One", the devils profess and acknowledge Jesus as the "prophesied Messiah", the Savior of the world??? Of course they believe He is God, Lord, and Savior!

Like the devils, OSAS believers acknowledge Jesus as God, Lord, and Savior but refuse to surrender to Him as their Lord and Savior, and instead chart a course of willful rebellion to His authority and enmity against His Law and anyone who suggests that we are obligated to obey it.

The only difference between the devils and OSAS believers is that the devils know and admit they are lost.

 

[ATP]

ATP, do you understand that by saying "Holy One", the devils profess and acknowledge Jesus as the "prophesied Messiah", the Savior of the world??? Of course they believe He is God, Lord, and Savior!

If the devils profess Jesus is Lord why aren't they saved?

Rom 10:9-10 NIV If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.

 

[Phoneman777]

If the devils profess Jesus is Lord why aren't they saved?

Rom 10:9-10 NIV If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.

ATP, my point is that there is MORE to just "professing" and "believing" if we are to be saved. Our profession and belief are nothing if they are not accompanied by works, just as the Bible says. As in the case in the wilderness with Jesus, the devil preaches only half the truth and the "itchy ears" of OSAS readily accept his sermon. You're saved by grace but you are judged by your works, and not just for jewels in crowns, but your eternal life.

 

[ATP]

ATP, my point is that there is MORE to just "professing" and "believing" if we are to be saved.

What more do you see in Rom 10:9?

 

[Phoneman777]

What more do you see in Rom 10:9?

ATP, you've got to take the whole of Scripture into account, as you know. When you assemble everything the Bible has to say about the Salvation experience, the picture is clear:

You are saved by grace, not by works.
Your works prove that you have been saved by grace and your lack of works prove otherwise.
Your righteousness must exceed that of the Pharisees, which means we have to keep the Spirit of the Law, because if we stop short at the Letter of the Law, it will kill us as it did the unbelieving Pharisees. Only by constant abiding in Jesus can we keep the Spirit of the Law.
You can be assured that if you want to be kept holy, God will keep you hold, but He allows you to choose whether to remain in His hand or step out of and walk away from it.

Why is any of the above so offensive to you? Only those who do not delight to serve the Lord should be offended by it.

 

[ATP]

Your righteousness must exceed that of the Pharisees, which means we have to keep the Spirit of the Law

Our righteousness is but filthy rags though.

Your works prove that you have been saved by grace and your lack of works prove otherwise.

Why is any of the above so offensive to you? Only those who do not delight to serve the Lord should be offended by it.

Because if we're not righteous enough we go to hell. The blood of Jesus is worthless and He didn't die for all sins. I feel that non-osas is just fear mongering forcing us to obey or else. That's not freedom or love.

John 19:30 NIV When he had received the drink, Jesus said, "It is (not) finished." With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.

 

[mjrhealth]

ATP, my point is that there is MORE to just "professing" and "believing" if we are to be saved. Our profession and belief are nothing if they are not accompanied by works,

Is salvation a gift or are we supposed to pay for it. And the works that are spoken of is His works not ours, When we believe we allow by faith, God to work through us, it has nothing to do with your works

A gift is only a gift if it is accepted without payment, when it is paid for it is no longer a gift, it becomes your works.

Rom 5:15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
Rom 5:16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
Rom 5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
Rom 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Can you not just accpet His gift by faith, what is it that Christ need to do for you to save you, was not His death and suffering enough for you.??

 

[ATP]

You're saved by grace but you are judged by your works, and not just for jewels in crowns, but your eternal life.

Eternal life comes through believing.

John 3:14-16 NIV Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15 that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

John 5:24 NIV “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

John 6:40 NIV For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

John 6:47 NIV Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life.

John 6:54 NIV Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

John 10:25-30 NIV Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, 26but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30I and the Father are one.”

Acts 13:46-48 NIV Then Paul and Barnabas answered them boldly: "We had to speak the word of God to you first. Since you reject it and do not consider yourselves worthy of eternal life, we now turn to the Gentiles. 47 For this is what the Lord has commanded us: " 'I have made you a light for the Gentiles, that you may bring salvation to the ends of the earth.' " 48 When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed for eternal life believed.

Eph 1:13-14 NIV And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

1 Tim 1:15-16 NIV Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners—of whom I am the worst. 16But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life.

Tit 1:1-3 NIV Paul, a servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ to further the faith of God’s elect and their knowledge of the truth that leads to godliness— 2in the hope of eternal life, which God, who does not lie, promised before the beginning of time, 3and which now at his appointed season he has brought to light through the preaching entrusted to me by the command of God our Savior,

Heb 9:12 NIV He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, having obtained eternal redemption.

1 John 5:9-14 NIV / Psa 21:4 NIV We accept human testimony, but God’s testimony is greater because it is the testimony of God, which he has given about his Son. 10Whoever believes in the Son of God accepts this testimony. Whoever does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because they have not believed the testimony God has given about his Son. 11And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life. 14This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us.

 

[Phoneman777]

Our righteousness is but filthy rags though.


Because if we're not righteous enough we go to hell. The blood of Jesus is worthless and He didn't die for all sins. I feel that non-osas is just fear mongering forcing us to obey or else. That's not freedom or love.

John 19:30 NIV When he had received the drink, Jesus said, "It is (not) finished." With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.

Bro, "righteousness" means "right doing".

OSAS believers claim that a saved person is righteous while he lives in sin. That's such a sad distortion of the Gospel. The worst suffering in hell will be felt not by mass murderers or other such wicked men, but false prophets who lead the people to hell with their smooth sayings, the smoothest of all is that you can continue in sin whilst being counted among the righteous.

 

[Phoneman777]

Eternal life comes through believing.

The devils believe, and tremble.

 

[Phoneman777]

Is salvation a gift or are we supposed to pay for it. And the works that are spoken of is His works not ours, When we believe we allow by faith, God to work through us, it has nothing to do with your works

A gift is only a gift if it is accepted without payment, when it is paid for it is no longer a gift, it becomes your works.

Rom 5:15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
Rom 5:16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
Rom 5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
Rom 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Can you not just accpet His gift by faith, what is it that Christ need to do for you to save you, was not His death and suffering enough for you.??

OSAS believers can't understand that the necessity of obedience is not to earn salvation but to prove that it has been accepted. They are under the delusion that an unsaved lost person can manifest obedience and attempt to claim it as payment for his sin, when the verse below is clear that such a man cannot keep the least commandment.

"The carnal mind is enmity with God. It is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can it be." Romans 8:7 KJV

 

[ATP]

Bro, "righteousness" means "right doing".

Righteousness and works comes only through believing. Righteousness is a gift by faith, not a work.

John 6:28-29 NIV Then they asked him, "What must we do to do the works God requires?" 29 Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."

Rom 3:21-22 NIV But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference,

Rom 4:22-24 NIV This is why "it was credited to him as righteousness." 23 The words "it was credited to him" were written not for him alone, 24 but also for us, to whom God will credit righteousness--for us who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead.

Rom 5:17-21 NIV For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God's abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ.

Rom 9:30-33 NIV What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith; 31 but Israel, who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it. 32 Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the "stumbling stone." 33 As it is written: "See, I lay in Zion a stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame."

Rom 10:3-4 NIV Since they did not know the righteousness of God and sought to establish their own, they did not submit to God’s righteousness. 4Christ is the culmination of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.

1 Cor 1:30 NIV It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God--that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption.

1 Cor 15:10-11 NIV But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace to me was not without effect. No, I worked harder than all of them--yet not I, but the grace of God that was with me. 11Whether, then, it is I or they, this is what we preach, and this is what you believed.

2 Cor 1:9 NIV Indeed, in our hearts we felt the sentence of death. But this happened that we might not rely on ourselves but on God, who raises the dead.

2 Cor 3:5 NIV Not that we are competent in ourselves to claim anything for ourselves, but our competence comes from God.

Gal 2:21 NIV I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!"

Gal 3:5 NIV Does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you because you observe the law, or because you believe what you heard?

Phil 1:9-11 NIV And this is my prayer: that your love may abound more and more in knowledge and depth of insight, 10 so that you may be able to discern what is best and may be pure and blameless until the day of Christ, 11 filled with the fruit of righteousness that comes through Jesus Christ--to the glory and praise of God.

Phil 3:8-11 NIV What is more, I consider everything a loss compared to the surpassing greatness of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them rubbish, that I may gain Christ 9 and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ--the righteousness that comes from God and is by faith. 10 I want to know Christ and the power of his resurrection and the fellowship of sharing in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, 11 and so, somehow, to attain to the resurrection from the dead.

James 2:23 NIV And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called God’s friend.

The devils believe, and tremble.

If the devils profess Jesus is Lord why aren't they saved?

 

[Phoneman777]

Righteousness and works comes only through believing. Righteousness is a gift by faith, not a work.

John 6:28-29 NIV Then they asked him, "What must we do to do the works God requires?" 29 Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."

Rom 3:21-22 NIV But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference,

Rom 4:22-24 NIV This is why "it was credited to him as righteousness." 23 The words "it was credited to him" were written not for him alone, 24 but also for us, to whom God will credit righteousness--for us who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead.

Rom 5:17-21 NIV For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God's abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ.

Rom 9:30-33 NIV What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith; 31 but Israel, who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it. 32 Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the "stumbling stone." 33 As it is written: "See, I lay in Zion a stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame."

Rom 10:3-4 NIV Since they did not know the righteousness of God and sought to establish their own, they did not submit to God’s righteousness. 4Christ is the culmination of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.

1 Cor 1:30 NIV It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God--that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption.

1 Cor 15:10-11 NIV But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace to me was not without effect. No, I worked harder than all of them--yet not I, but the grace of God that was with me. 11Whether, then, it is I or they, this is what we preach, and this is what you believed.

2 Cor 1:9 NIV Indeed, in our hearts we felt the sentence of death. But this happened that we might not rely on ourselves but on God, who raises the dead.

2 Cor 3:5 NIV Not that we are competent in ourselves to claim anything for ourselves, but our competence comes from God.

Gal 2:21 NIV I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!"

Gal 3:5 NIV Does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you because you observe the law, or because you believe what you heard?

Phil 1:9-11 NIV And this is my prayer: that your love may abound more and more in knowledge and depth of insight, 10 so that you may be able to discern what is best and may be pure and blameless until the day of Christ, 11 filled with the fruit of righteousness that comes through Jesus Christ--to the glory and praise of God.

Phil 3:8-11 NIV What is more, I consider everything a loss compared to the surpassing greatness of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them rubbish, that I may gain Christ 9 and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ--the righteousness that comes from God and is by faith. 10 I want to know Christ and the power of his resurrection and the fellowship of sharing in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, 11 and so, somehow, to attain to the resurrection from the dead.

James 2:23 NIV And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called God’s friend.


If the devils profess Jesus is Lord why aren't they saved?

"Righteousness" means "right doing" bro. That's exactly what it means. If Jesus is "doing righteousness" through you, it will be evident in your works. If your works are otherwise, it is evidence that Satan is still on the heart throne.

 

[ATP]

"Righteousness" means "right doing" bro. That's exactly what it means. If Jesus is "doing righteousness" through you, it will be evident in your works. If your works are otherwise, it is evidence that Satan is still on the heart throne.

Jesus is doing righteousness through us, because we are believing. Are you obtain works through the law or through grace...

Rom 3:21-22 NIV But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference,

Rom 9:30-33 NIV What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith; 31 but Israel, who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it. 32 Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the "stumbling stone." 33 As it is written: "See, I lay in Zion a stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame."

Rom 10:3-4 NIV Since they did not know the righteousness of God and sought to establish their own, they did not submit to God’s righteousness. 4Christ is the culmination of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.

Gal 2:21 NIV I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!"

Phil 3:8-11 NIV What is more, I consider everything a loss compared to the surpassing greatness of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them rubbish, that I may gain Christ 9 and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ--the righteousness that comes from God and is by faith. 10 I want to know Christ and the power of his resurrection and the fellowship of sharing in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, 11 and so, somehow, to attain to the resurrection from the dead.

- ATP

 

[ATP]

The reason devils aren't saved is because
they choose not to receive the free gift of salvation,
which is Jesus shed blood on the cross.
Sure, you can believe Jesus is the Christ,
but do you believe he died for your sins and rose again?

 

[lforrest]

It is quite a leap to assume demons can be saved. I seem to remember something in the apocrypha that says otherwise. Unless there is evidence they can be saved, I'll assume they can't be.

 

[StanJ]

It is quite a leap to assume demons can be saved. I seem to remember something in the apocrypha that says otherwise. Unless there is evidence they can be saved, I'll assume they can't be.

Plus salvation is for the world and that means our physical world, John 3:16, not the spiritual world that God created for himself. Those that rebelled and took Lucifer side made their decision fully aware of who God was, and have no 2nd chance of salvation.

 

[Phoneman777]

The reason devils aren't saved is because
they choose not to receive the free gift of salvation,
which is Jesus shed blood on the cross.
Sure, you can believe Jesus is the Christ,
but do you believe he died for your sins and rose again?

No, ATP, you sound as if you believe they could still be saved if they chose to accept it, which is not right. Lucifer and the devils all once possessed eternal life but lost it through sin from which they refused to repent and eventually became incapable of repenting of it. The same holds true for any saint who chooses to backslide and fails to repent of it before losing the ability to do so.

 

[Phoneman777]

It is quite a leap to assume demons can be saved. I seem to remember something in the apocrypha that says otherwise. Unless there is evidence they can be saved, I'll assume they can't be.

Unlike humans, demons are experientially aware of the sublime heavenly realm they lost and their impending torment to come. The greatest evidence that they no longer possess the ability to repent is that they, while knowing of the matchless sublimity from whence they came, continue onward towards destruction .