ANALYSIS OF MATTHEW 24:12-13 - WHY IT DISPROVES OSAS

[mjrhealth]

hrough sin from which they refused to repent and eventually became incapable of repenting of i

But see you missed the whole point of it all, Lucifer was spirit born of teh light, he and his fallen angels by choice left there first estate, they cannot return from where they came there never was a way for them, why do you think God created man from the dirt and than breathed His spirit of life into Him, it all has to do with Jesus condeming sin to the flesh, if you understood it you would not be so paranoid about sin, but again who takes things to God , few because they dont want to find out they are wrong. Should I again ask teh question,

was not the works that Christ done through His suffering and death enough for mans salvation??? or is it that man must somehow add to teh price??

 

[ATP]

No, ATP, you sound as if you believe they could still be saved if they chose to accept it, which is not right. Lucifer and the devils all once possessed eternal life but lost it through sin from which they refused to repent and eventually became incapable of repenting of it. The same holds true for any saint who chooses to backslide and fails to repent of it before losing the ability to do so.

The Gospel message is for human beings, people who still have hope Phone. If demons believe why don't they have eternal life.

But see you missed the whole point of it all, Lucifer was spirit born of teh light, he and his fallen angels by choice left there first estate, they cannot return from where they came there never was a way for them, why do you think God created man from the dirt and than breathed His spirit of life into Him, it all has to do with Jesus condeming sin to the flesh, if you understood it you would not be so paranoid about sin, but again who takes things to God , few because they dont want to find out they are wrong. Should I again ask teh question,

was not the works that Christ done through His suffering and death enough for mans salvation??? or is it that man must somehow add to teh price??

Well said brother. I'm going to miss your posts mjr. - ATP

 

[mjrhealth]

Leave you with one thought ATP, found this the other day, dont know how i missed it..

Gal 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now

Get you head out of teh bible and your thoughts only on Christ, the days ahead are numbered and few will be ready.

God bless

 

[ATP]

Leave you with one thought ATP, found this the other day, dont know how i missed it..

Gal 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now

Get you head out of teh bible and your thoughts only on Christ, the days ahead are numbered and few will be ready.

God bless

Thank you. Friend.

 

[Phoneman777]

, if you understood it you would not be so paranoid about sin,

If you understood the Old Testament Sanctuary service, all of which pointed to Jesus the Lamb of God, you would not be so quick to excuse your sin because you would see from that service just how seriously God takes sin and how seriously and meticulously He is in dealing with it, and the final eradication of it.

• The Courtyard is where the lamb was slain and represents Justification.
• The Holy Place is where Jesus makes intercession as the Light of the world, the Bread of Heaven, and Sweet Incense with which our prayers ascend, and represents Sanctification.
• The Most Holy Place is where Jesus cleanses the Heavenly Sanctuary from every single,solitary sin, no matter how large or small or what type and variety, which accumulated all through the ritual year, and upon exiting goes out to greet the people and this represents Glorification.

You are a Courtyard Christian - you're stuck in Justification and have never set down in the Holy Place where is Sanctification, without which you will not see Glorification. This will be the destiny of the majority of Christians who have fallen for the false doctrine of OSAS and no one's blood shall be on my hands, for I have not failed to warn the brethren of this error.

 

[ATP]

If you understood the Old Testament Sanctuary service, all of which pointed to Jesus the Lamb of God, you would not be so quick to excuse your sin

You are a Courtyard Christian - you're stuck in Justification and have never set down in the Holy Place where is Sanctification, without which you will not see Glorification.

Keep your head up mjr. Blessed are you..

John 15:18-25 NIV “If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. 19If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you. 20Remember what I told you: ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also. If they obeyed my teaching, they will obey yours also. 21They will treat you this way because of my name, for they do not know the one who sent me. 22If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin; but now they have no excuse for their sin. 23Whoever hates me hates my Father as well. 24If I had not done among them the works no one else did, they would not be guilty of sin. As it is, they have seen, and yet they have hated both me and my Father. 25But this is to fulfill what is written in their Law: ‘They hated me without reason.’

 

[ATP]

Isa 45:17 NIV But Israel will be saved by the LORD with an everlasting salvation; you will never be put to shame or disgraced, to ages everlasting.

 

[mjrhealth]

Dont like long ones can go on fore ever about our saviour and what He has done.

Hmm, being pondering this one all afternoon, and Jesus said, you are a hard one. I spend a lot of time asking Him questions. You know the bit about Jesus leaving the 99 to find the one that was lost, yet I have discovered that so many that are His are like Jonah and Saul, running away from God as if they could. Took a wale to get Jonah to where he needed to be and a encounter with Jesus and being made blind for Saul to have His opened so that He could see. Seems Jesus has a purpose for you, no argument there.
Lets start with Justification, there is none justified by god, one of the first things He showed me in a vision, was me standing before my father butt naked on the steps of a courthouse, this was to show me that there is nothing hidden from Him, nothing. No matter how we try to bury our shame under clothing of self righteousness and our filthy works, he can see through it all.
Now justified.
Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Act_13:39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.
Rom_5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

Gal_3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

DO I need go on, I am sure you have a bible on your PC look it up.


I cannot justify, who I am, where I came from, what I do or not do, I cannot justfy the good I do or evil if it be so, if I murdered 1000 people I could not justify it, if I gave money to 1 million people I cannot justify it, it would be foolishness , pride and boasting… “look at me God look at what I did”. I may have being foolish once,,, Do you think any think I do is going to change the Love God has for me or you, to think so makes God like a man, not God, and that is foolishness.

I am justified by Him who became sin for all men so that sin would not have a hold on them.

Its interesting, a courtyard Christian, I presume you do not know what the happens at salvation,

Being washed and made clean by His blood, sanctified by Him, clothed in His righteousness

Rom_3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference

Baptized into His death – See sons of Zebedee

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Made righteous by Him

Rom_5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

And because of all His works, and His righteousness, we now have acces to God.

Eph_2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

See I know where I came from I know where I am going and I know who my Father is,

He has so much to give you, to teach you to show you, the bible is barely a glimpse into the one who created all things, it is all there for those who believe.

 

[hatedbyall]

It looks to me the verse is saying the absolute for sure way of knowing you are saved is after you are dead. I think that is what "persevere to the end" means.

Heb. 9:12 - Christ's sacrifice secured our redemption, but redemption is not the same thing as salvation. We participate in and hope for salvation. Our hope in salvation is a guarantee if we are faithful to Christ to the end. But if we lose hope and fail to persevere, we can lose our salvation. Thus, by our own choosing (not by God's doing), salvation is not a certainty. While many Protestant churches believe in the theology of "once saved, always saved," such a novel theory is not found in Scripture and has never been taught by the Church.
read more here

it sounds like you are osas, which is an extremely UN-biblical doctrine (of demons). There is no way anyone who has the Holy Spirit at all is going to say that "my sin doesn't affect me; i am saved regardless of my sinfulness" That is a LIE from the pit of Hell.

Jesus said it is not easy getting toHeaven. And he said that FEW do. He woiuld not have said that if osas were true

 

[ATP]

it sounds like you are osas, which is an extremely UN-biblical doctrine (of demons). There is no way anyone who has the Holy Spirit at all is going to say that "my sin doesn't affect me; i am saved regardless of my sinfulness" That is a LIE from the pit of Hell.

Jesus said it is not easy getting toHeaven. And he said that FEW do. He woiuld not have said that if osas were true

He's referring to "many are invited to the wedding feast, but few are chosen". Many are called and fall into religion without salvation. The few chosen are his elect, born again christians. What does Jesus mean when he says "through me"...

John 10:9 NIV I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved. They will come in and go out, and find pasture.

John 14:6 NIV Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Matt 22:14
klétos: called
Original Word: κλητός, ή, όν
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: klétos
Phonetic Spelling: (klay-tos')
Short Definition: called, summoned
Definition: called, invited, summoned by God to an office or to salvation.

Just because you're invited doesn't mean you are going.

Luke 14:15-24 NIV When one of those at the table with him heard this, he said to Jesus, “Blessed is the one who will eat at the feast in the kingdom of God.” 16 Jesus replied: “A certain man was preparing a great banquet and invited many guests. 17 At the time of the banquet he sent his servant to tell those who had been invited, ‘Come, for everything is now ready.’ 18 “But they all alike began to make excuses. The first said, ‘I have just bought a field, and I must go and see it. Please excuse me.’ 19 “Another said, ‘I have just bought five yoke of oxen, and I’m on my way to try them out. Please excuse me.’ 20 “Still another said, ‘I just got married, so I can’t come.’ 21 “The servant came back and reported this to his master. Then the owner of the house became angry and ordered his servant, ‘Go out quickly into the streets and alleys of the town and bring in the poor, the crippled, the blind and the lame.’ 22 “ ‘Sir,’ the servant said, ‘what you ordered has been done, but there is still room.’ 23 “Then the master told his servant, ‘Go out to the roads and country lanes and compel them to come in, so that my house will be full. 24 I tell you, not one of those who were invited will get a taste of my banquet.’ ”

Too many excuses not to come to faith John 3:3. - ATP

 

[Phoneman777]

Jesus' parable of the Unmerciful Servant proves that there is no such thing as OSAS. He begged for mercy for his impossible debt and was granted full forgiveness of it (at great cost to his lord), but in refusing to cease from his sinful ways, he was condemned again by his lord to repay every bit of his impossible debt of which he was originally forgiven.

Of course, Cognitive Dissonance won't allow some of you to accept that your long cherished OSAS belief is in direct opposition to what Jesus taught, so Scripture will be twisted to explain that the latter fate of the Unmerciful Servant - a state in which forgiveness has been withdrawn by his lord leaving him doomed - actually means the Unmerciful Servant is still forgiven and yet remains in the good graces of his lord. No wonder people look at the church and conclude that you must first check your brain at the door before entering.

 

[ATP]

Jesus' parable of the Unmerciful Servant proves that there is no such thing as OSAS. He begged for mercy for his impossible debt and was granted full forgiveness of it (at great cost to his lord), but in refusing to cease from his sinful ways, he was condemned again by his lord to repay every bit of his impossible debt of which he was originally forgiven.

Of course, Cognitive Dissonance won't allow some of you to accept that your long cherished OSAS belief is in direct opposition to what Jesus taught, so Scripture will be twisted to explain that the latter fate of the Unmerciful Servant - a state in which forgiveness has been withdrawn by his lord leaving him doomed - actually means the Unmerciful Servant is still forgiven and yet remains in the good graces of his lord. No wonder people look at the church and conclude that you must first check your brain at the door before entering.

Parables are not historical facts. Jesus dying on the cross for all sins is a historical fact. Oops. We forgot that.

The Unmerciful Servant - In this parable the unforgiving servant is sent to the torturers by the king (God) for his unwillingness to forgive others. In the broader context of understanding the law of love, and the immediate context of forgiveness, I think this means that if we are unwilling to love well and forgive others, God will “torture” us by using the devil at his disposal. I interpret torture as causing us to live and fail by our own efforts, to face our evil, recognize our sin and appreciate God’s forgiveness of us. Then we will in turn forgive others because we will see that we are just as bad as them and capable of doing the same thing they did to us.

This forgiveness is to be understood of averting calamities and judgments, likely to fall for his iniquities, which is sometimes the sense of this phrase: see 1 Kings 8:34 and so his being delivered to the tormentors may mean, his being distressed with an accusing guilty conscience, an harassing, vexing devil, many misfortunes of life, and temporal calamities.

Though after all, this is not strictly to be applied to any particular case or person, but the scope of the parable is to be attended to; which is to enforce mutual forgiveness among men, from having received full and free pardon at the hands of God; and that without the former, there is little reason to expect the latter, as appears from what follows.

- ATP

 

[Phoneman777]

Parables are not historical facts. Jesus dying on the cross for all sins is a historical fact. Oops. We forgot that.

The Unmerciful Servant - In this parable the unforgiving servant is sent to the torturers by the king (God) for his unwillingness to forgive others. In the broader context of understanding the law of love, and the immediate context of forgiveness, I think this means that if we are unwilling to love well and forgive others, God will “torture” us by using the devil at his disposal. I interpret torture as causing us to live and fail by our own efforts, to face our evil, recognize our sin and appreciate God’s forgiveness of us. Then we will in turn forgive others because we will see that we are just as bad as them and capable of doing the same thing they did to us.

This forgiveness is to be understood of averting calamities and judgments, likely to fall for his iniquities, which is sometimes the sense of this phrase: see 1 Kings 8:34 and so his being delivered to the tormentors may mean, his being distressed with an accusing guilty conscience, an harassing, vexing devil, many misfortunes of life, and temporal calamities.

Though after all, this is not strictly to be applied to any particular case or person, but the scope of the parable is to be attended to; which is to enforce mutual forgiveness among men, from having received full and free pardon at the hands of God; and that without the former, there is little reason to expect the latter, as appears from what follows.

- ATP

ATP, you can twist the Scripture all you want, but the latter debt of this man is EXACTLY the same as the debt he owed before he was forgiven, and there's no amount of rationalization can change that. What part of "till he should pay all that was due him" do you not understand? Is English your mother tongue? Why do you continue to gloss over this fact, if not for your desire to hold onto error rather than be led into truth? Your words may sound appealing to those who desperately want to cling to OSAS, but to those who seek the truth, they should appear for what they are: serpent language.

 

[ATP]

ATP, you can twist the Scripture all you want, but the latter debt of this man is EXACTLY the same as the debt he owed before he was forgiven, and there's no amount of rationalization can change that. What part of "till he should pay all that was due him" do you not understand? Is English your mother tongue? Why do you continue to gloss over this fact, if not for your desire to hold onto error rather than be led into truth? Your words may sound appealing to those who desperately want to cling to OSAS, but to those who seek the truth, they should appear for what they are: serpent language.

Understanding that parables are not historical facts is not twisting scripture. That is a fact of language. Are you now changing the laws of written language? :blink:

 

[Phoneman777]

Understanding that parables are not historical facts is not twisting scripture. That is a fact of language. Are you now changing the laws of written language? :blink:

No, but insisting that what Scripture calls "black" is "white" is twisting it. And insisting that "till he should pay all that was due him" is anything less than that - which is how your OSAS interpretation corrupts Scripture in order to establish it - is a textbook example of twisting Scripture. The Servant begged for and received forgiveness, but in the end wound up owing everything he previously owed, which is in perfect harmony with what is found in the OT:
Ezekiel 18:24 KJV "But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, [and] doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked [man] doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die."

Dispensationalism is a lie of the devil and so is OSAS, brother. You're saved by grace but you will be judged by your works because your works prove whether you have been saved by and continued in grace.

 

[ATP]

No, but insisting that what Scripture calls "black" is "white" is twisting it. And insisting that "till he should pay all that was due him" is anything less than that - which is how your OSAS interpretation corrupts Scripture in order to establish it - is a textbook example of twisting Scripture. The Servant begged for and received forgiveness, but in the end wound up owing everything he previously owed, which is in perfect harmony with what is found in the OT:
Ezekiel 18:24 KJV "But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, [and] doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked [man] doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die."

Dispensationalism is a lie of the devil and so is OSAS, brother. You're saved by grace but you will be judged by your works because your works prove whether you have been saved by and continued in grace.

The lie of the devil is that you're using a parable as a historical fact. You're still not getting it. The meaning of the parable is in post 512.

 

[StanJ]

Understanding that parables are not historical facts is not twisting scripture. That is a fact of language. Are you now changing the laws of written language?

Of course parables are historic facts ATP. They were actually said and they contain truth so I'm not quite sure what you're getting at? As far as changing the laws of written language is concerned, are you relating to not understanding the difference between symbolic, metaphorical, or literal language?
Because if that is the case you do seem to have that problem on a regular basis.

 

[ATP]

Of course parables are historic facts ATP.

Give me an example.

 

[ATP]

When describing OSAS, parables describe the spiritual gap between believers and nonbelievers. Once you are born again you cannot be unborn, thus teaching lessons of wisdom.

 

[StanJ]

When describing OSAS, parables describe the spiritual gap between believers and nonbelievers. Once you are born again you cannot be unborn, thus teaching lessons of wisdom.

You sure do copy and paste a lot in different threads. Parables do not describe OSAS at all. They describe spiritual principles related to Jesus and how he is their Messiah.