Another Premillennial absurdity

[WPM]

I say the same for those who promote reformed preterist eschatology in 66-70AD fulfillment

In Love, Jesus Is The Lord

Who cares?

 

[covenantee]

I say the same for those who promote reformed preterist eschatology in 66-70AD fulfillment

In Love, Jesus Is The Lord

Not to mention those who parrot apostate Jesuit counter-Reformation futurist deception.

 

[WPM]

Not to mention those who parrot apostate Jesuit counter-Reformation futurist deception.

Exactly bro.

 

[WPM]

During the Millennium, the church is in Paradise where they have been since the thief entered Paradise that day when Jesus declared it is finished, and Paradise was opened, so the thief could enter. Paradise was blocked from Adam's dead corruptible flesh the day Adam disobeyed God. Being redeemed is not just a spiritual birth. It is the heavenly city Abraham waited for until he was released from the part of sheol called Abraham's bosom. It is being restored back into permanent incorruptible physical bodies that Adam enjoyed prior to disobeying God.

When you talk about the Church being in paradise, do you include the OT saints in that description?

 

[Timtofly]

When you talk about the Church being in paradise, do you include the OT saints in that description?

They left Abraham's bosom at the Cross. All have had permanent incorruptible physical bodies in Paradise since the Cross. The thief was the first NT convert to enjoy his permanent incorruptible physical body in Paradise. He was with the Lord/God that day. He will still be in the New Jerusalem when it descends from Heaven after the Millennium.

The Cross was the age to come and last day resurrection. They are like the angels and do not mary nor have relationships that procreate offspring. Do you think procreation will be terminated for all eternity? Amil should agree the age to come started at the Cross. They certainly start every thing else at that point. Do you not accept the bodily resurrection in Matthew 27?

"And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many."

Only Jesus can call people out of their graves.

 

[WPM]

They left Abraham's bosom at the Cross. All have had permanent incorruptible physical bodies in Paradise since the Cross. The thief was the first NT convert to enjoy his permanent incorruptible physical body in Paradise. He was with the Lord/God that day. He will still be in the New Jerusalem when it descends from Heaven after the Millennium.

The Cross was the age to come and last day resurrection. They are like the angels and do not mary nor have relationships that procreate offspring. Do you think procreation will be terminated for all eternity? Amil should agree the age to come started at the Cross. They certainly start every thing else at that point. Do you not accept the bodily resurrection in Matthew 27?

"And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many."

Only Jesus can call people out of their graves.

That is not what I asked. Here we go again: more and more and more avoidance. This is very tiring.

When you talk about the Church being in paradise, do you include the OT saints in that description?

 

[Always Believing]

Scripture tells us that we are coming back to earth, but I believe it will be a regenerated earth (Malachi 4:1-3, I Corinthians 15:50, 2 Peter 3).

I already know that, and you change the Bible to do it. There will be no rod of iron on the new earth, but God and the Lamb with be dwelling with man in New Jerusalem.

The living waters cleansing the sea will not flow from beside the altar of the throne of God and Lamb, because there is no altar nor temple on the new earth, except God and the Lamb.

It will be an earth totally purged of all corruption. The new heavens and a new earth (in whatever form God chooses) will appear at the coming of Christ. It will involve (at very least) the burning up of the crust of our current earth. This current earth will be totally changed / regenerated – making it a new curse-free environment. The earth will be restored to its previous pristine condition.

The old heaven and earth will flee from the face of God and pass away. More Bible you change for your future.

These passages would sway me towards the position that this earth will remain forever – only in a new condition.

Your false future predictions sway you, not the Bible.

Job prophesied that the Lord would stand on this earth at the end of the age. Job 19:25-26: “For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth: And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God.” There is no other earth than this present one that Job would have been familiar with.

Exactly. And so he will see when the Lord gives the land Abraham walked on, that was promised him.

Christ confirmed this in Matthew 5:5 saying, “Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.”

It wouldn't be much of an inheritance if the meek had no earth to inherit.

True. That will happen before this earth flees from God.

What is more, God keeps His Word. He does not break His promise. The reason this will be fulfilled is because the world last forever, albeit in a perfected condition.

It does not make sense to teach that this earth will be completely annihilated

No it doesn't. It will be dissolved and pass away. No one says annihilated. Do you also change what others say, as well as the Bible?

and replaced by an entirely separate new earth. that would contradict multiple Scriptures which indicate that the earth will last forever.

Another strong reason to believe that this current earth will be regenerated is the fact that different Old Testament Scriptures tell us that this earth will last forever.

True. Fleeing God's face forever. Not annihilated.

Psalm 104:5 says, “Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed forever.”

This literally means “So that it will not totter forever and ever." The word totter means, to refrain from moving out of place.

And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

The OT was also said to be everlasting, and now it's dead and gone.

 

[Always Believing]

The beast's army is totally destroyed in Revelation 19.

True.

There are no wicked to inherit the millennium, as Premil contends.

True. After the armies are wiped out, the goats will also go away into hell.

Christ is seen pouring out His wrath without mixture upon the nations as He smites them in His fury with “a sharp sword” that comes “out of his mouth.” He destroys them by the very utterances of His mouth. He then “treadeth (or tramples) the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.”

True, and then rule them left of the nations.

How can these rebels possibly escape such a furious end?

Not at around Armageddon they can't. Neither will the goats of the nations escape judgement. Only the sheep will be them left to rule.

As I said, I don't dote about words nor neglect them to teach something else.

The rest of your stuff is just repasted old hat.

 

[Always Believing]

It is hard to believe, but this is actually your response to Holy Writ. Seriously?

Absolutely. Sounds better every time.

Your lip service to 'Holy Writ' is unimpressive.

I am seeing a definite pattern with you, one that marks most Premil rebuttals:

About time. It's called disagreement and correction.

There are no goats left to enter into your supposed future millennium!!!

Exactly. Only sheep. Now you're learning.

Christ appears at His Second Advent “in flaming fire” with the purpose of taking “vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.”

I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

They being all false apostles and teachers, many of whom will be gathered around Armageddon with the last great false apostle and christ, that would trouble not just the saints on earth, but also make war with the Lord Himself in the air.

Some of them have already got you looking for a future Christ, that will call down fire from heaven in your sight, to destroy all those you don't like, because they don't agree with you.

But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of. For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them.

 

[Always Believing]

Where does it say "The hypocrite Christians are left on earth"?
Where does it mention Armageddon here? Please quote.

All i see is a litany of denying Scripture and rubbishing its veracity and detail. Sad!

Armageddon is mentioned once in the NT, you insert it into a lot of Scripture. The fact is when Jesus comes the righteous are immediately rescued, the wicked are immediately destroyed. If you ask me, you seem to limit the detailed description of "the thief in the night" statement in order to facilitate the saturation of the wicked in the supposed Premil future millennium.

How about actually telling us where the Bible teaches that there will be survivors after the "battle of Armageddon," instead of making these fantastic claims?

A lot of words to say, no response.

 

[WPM]

I already know that, and you change the Bible to do it. There will be no rod of iron on the new earth, but God and the Lamb with be dwelling with man in New Jerusalem.

Ok, help me: (1) where is a rod of iron mentioned in Rev 20 and (2) where does it say anywhere in the Bible it would last for 1000 years?

The living waters cleansing the sea will not flow from beside the altar of the throne of God and Lamb, because there is no altar nor temple on the new earth, except God and the Lamb.

Ok, show me this in Rev 20.

The old heaven and earth will flee from the face of God and pass away. More Bible you change for your future.

Your false future predictions sway you, not the Bible.


Exactly. And so he will see when the Lord gives the land Abraham walked on, that was promised him.


True. That will happen before this earth flees from God.



No it doesn't. It will be dissolved and pass away. No one says annihilated. Do you also change what others say, as well as the Bible?



True. Fleeing God's face forever. Not annihilated.


And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

The OT was also said to be everlasting, and now it's dead and gone.

This is not an issue worth arguing over. It does not prove or disprove either position

 

[WPM]

A lot of words to say, no response.

LOL. I did not think for one second that you had any evidence to support this private opinion. So, i am not surprised you failed to answer these claims you made. The burden of proof is with you to support what you claim. It is playing that you cannot. Why not admit you have nothing?

 

[WPM]

True.


True. After the armies are wiped out, the goats will also go away into hell.


True, and then rule them left of the nations.


Not at around Armageddon they can't. Neither will the goats of the nations escape judgement. Only the sheep will be them left to rule.

As I said, I don't dote about words nor neglect them to teach something else.

The rest of your stuff is just repasted old hat.

It is clear you have no answers to Amil. Avoidance is the Number 1 Premil trait. You have no answers because your theology runs against the Bible.

Read what I wrote instead of ducking around the sacred text. Read what I quoted from the Bible pertaining to the wicked and show me how any wicked can survive. Read the text instead of your Premil text-books. Rev 19 totally forbids your speculations.

There is nothing else to refute because you have sidestepped multiple arguments. I will take this as an admission that you have nothing.

 

[WPM]

I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

They being all false apostles and teachers, many of whom will be gathered around Armageddon with the last great false apostle and christ, that would trouble not just the saints on earth, but also make war with the Lord Himself in the air.

Some of them have already got you looking for a future Christ, that will call down fire from heaven in your sight, to destroy all those you don't like, because they don't agree with you.

But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of. For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them.

Ok, so you are now unto Phase 2 of the Premil engagement: ad hominem and slander against fellow believers that dare to disagree with Premil. Wow! Next phase is to run (that is Phase 3). Phase 1 was avoidance.

 

[WPM]

They left Abraham's bosom at the Cross. All have had permanent incorruptible physical bodies in Paradise since the Cross. The thief was the first NT convert to enjoy his permanent incorruptible physical body in Paradise. He was with the Lord/God that day. He will still be in the New Jerusalem when it descends from Heaven after the Millennium.

The Cross was the age to come and last day resurrection. They are like the angels and do not mary nor have relationships that procreate offspring. Do you think procreation will be terminated for all eternity? Amil should agree the age to come started at the Cross. They certainly start every thing else at that point. Do you not accept the bodily resurrection in Matthew 27?

"And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many."

Only Jesus can call people out of their graves.

That is not what I asked. Here we go again: more and more and more avoidance. This is very tiring.

When you talk about the Church being in paradise, do you include the OT saints in that description?

 

[Timtofly]

That is not what I asked. Here we go again: more and more and more avoidance. This is very tiring.

When you talk about the Church being in paradise, do you include the OT saints in that description?

The OT saints entered Paradise after the NT thief entered. But who entered Paradise after the resurrection on the third day seems to be your issue, not mine.

This has been Paradise since 30AD. This includes all OT and all NT since 30AD:

"I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:"

"After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;"


Both verses are the exact same group of people from different perspectives, ie camera angles. You do know what a camera angle is, right? You claim many yourself from this book.

These two verses portray all OT and NT saints. There is only one type of saint, believer, redeemed soul. All humanity born to Adam and Eve in their fallen condition, changed out of Adam's dead corruptible flesh into God's permanent incorruptible physical body.

You can spiritualize or symbolize existence all you want, but you cannot enter Paradise in Adam's dead corruptible flesh. You can enjoy seated in heavenly places with God's permanent incorruptible physical body once you enter Paradise.

 

[Always Believing]

Ok, help me: (1) where is a rod of iron mentioned in Rev 20 and (2) where does it say anywhere in the Bible it would last for 1000 years?

His rule with rod of iron is spoken of elsewhere. The thousand years is in Rev 20.

Ok, show me this in Rev 20.

Elsewhere in other prophecies of His rule on earth.

This is not an issue worth arguing over. It does not prove or disprove either position

It proves it is this earth with the same land that Abraham walked on. Not the new earth created with the passing away of this one and all it's dissolved land.

 

[Always Believing]

LOL. I did not think for one second that you had any evidence to support this private opinion. So, i am not surprised you failed to answer these claims you made. The burden of proof is with you to support what you claim. It is playing that you cannot. Why not admit you have nothing?

You're funny.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You're funny.

He's right. You offer nothing to support your beliefs. Do you think your opinions alone mean anything without scriptural support for them?

 

[WPM]

His rule with rod of iron is spoken of elsewhere. The thousand years is in Rev 20.


Elsewhere in other prophecies of His rule on earth.


It proves it is this earth with the same land that Abraham walked on. Not the new earth created with the passing away of this one and all it's dissolved land.

So, basically, you have nothing. You are just promoting what you have been taught, not what the Book teaches. I already knew that. But, thanks for confirming that.