Another Premillennial absurdity

[Timtofly]

LOL. Finally! Was that really hard? You have avoided this how many times???

I said that the very first post after you asked. You finally got it.

 

[WPM]

I said that the very first post after you asked. You finally got it.

You capitulated to the obvious after much questions. Better late than never!

 

[Timtofly]

You capitulated to the obvious after much questions. Better late than never!

You have a way of avoiding the obvious until many post later, or never.

You seem to be the one who likes to argue unnecessarily, only for the sake of having an argument.

 

[WPM]

Op Note!

After a long period of time waiting for any biblical evidence to support this Premil theory, it is obvious that they know what we know: there is nowhere in Scripture that teaches the glorified Jesus will bring back all the redeemed of all the ages that have enjoyed perfect communion with Christ in His majestic heavenly presence since the time He defeated sin and death 2000 years ago, giving them new eternal incorruptible bodies at His second coming, along with the living in Christ, rewarding them with eternal bliss, and then bringing them back to a corruptible millennial earth filled with degenerates, death, decay and depravity, just like our present day. It is just another re-run of our current evil age.

This whole portrayal is ridiculous and nonsensical, and will never happen. This is another reason to reject Premil. Most of their beliefs are fictional.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Op Note!

After a long period of time waiting for any biblical evidence to support this Premil theory, it is obvious that they know what we know: there is nowhere in Scripture that teaches the glorified Jesus will bring back all the redeemed of all the ages that have enjoyed perfect communion with Christ in His majestic heavenly presence since the time He defeated sin and death 2000 years ago, giving them new eternal incorruptible bodies at His second coming, along with the living in Christ, rewarding them with eternal bliss, and then bringing them back to a corruptible millennial earth filled with degenerates, death, decay and depravity, just like our present day. It is just another re-run of our current evil age.

This whole portrayal is ridiculous and nonsensical, and will never happen. This is another reason to reject Premil. Most of their beliefs are fictional.

Absolutely right. The Premil theory is clearly based primarily on speculation and wild theories rather than on solid arguments that can be backed up with scripture.

They take a passage from one of the most highly symbolic books in the Bible (if not the most) and interpret it literally and interpret all other scripture based on their interpretation of Revelation 20. That is a terrible approach to interpreting scripture. Amils understand that you should start with clear, straightforward scriptures as the foundation for our doctrine and then interpret more difficult passages like Revelation 20 and Zechariah 14 in light of those scriptures.

 

[WPM]

Absolutely right. The Premil theory is clearly based primarily on speculation and wild theories rather than on solid arguments that can be backed up with scripture.

They take a passage from one of the most highly symbolic books in the Bible (if not the most) and interpret it literally and interpret all other scripture based on their interpretation of Revelation 20. That is a terrible approach to interpreting scripture. Amils understand that you should start with clear, straightforward scriptures as the foundation for our doctrine and then interpret more difficult passages like Revelation 20 and Zechariah 14 in light of those scriptures.

Agreed! Well put! They have one string to their guitar. It play a boring and monotonous tune: "what saith Rev 20!"

 

[WPM]

You have a way of avoiding the obvious until many post later, or never.

You seem to be the one who likes to argue unnecessarily, only for the sake of having an argument.

How about addressing the Op after all these pages.

 

[WPM]

You have a way of avoiding the obvious until many post later, or never.

You seem to be the one who likes to argue unnecessarily, only for the sake of having an argument.

Not so. You intervene in threads with no attempt to address the subject at hand. Just pick a thread and you will that in operation.

 

[WPM]

Absolutely right. The Premil theory is clearly based primarily on speculation and wild theories rather than on solid arguments that can be backed up with scripture.

They take a passage from one of the most highly symbolic books in the Bible (if not the most) and interpret it literally and interpret all other scripture based on their interpretation of Revelation 20. That is a terrible approach to interpreting scripture. Amils understand that you should start with clear, straightforward scriptures as the foundation for our doctrine and then interpret more difficult passages like Revelation 20 and Zechariah 14 in light of those scriptures.

I wonder does any of them even worry that their theories contradict the sacred text? If they did: they would obviously change.

 

[Timtofly]

I wonder does any of them even worry that their theories contradict the sacred text? If they did: they would obviously change.

Premil do follow the sacred text.

It is Amil who don't seem to care if they violate God's Word. Amil have theories.

You still have failed to prove there were beheaded people ressurected in the first century, as declared in the text, when you claim Revelation 20 begins. That is your theory that Revelation 20 begins in the first century.

That has everything to do with the OP because your OP is speculation. The text clearly claims who reigns with Christ for a thousand years. Not all premill fit your blanket theories.

 

[WPM]

Premil do follow the sacred text.

It is Amil who don't seem to care if they violate God's Word. Amil have theories.

You still have failed to prove there were beheaded people ressurected in the first century, as declared in the text, when you claim Revelation 20 begins. That is your theory that Revelation 20 begins in the first century.

That has everything to do with the OP because your OP is speculation. The text clearly claims who reigns with Christ for a thousand years. Not all premill fit your blanket theories.

They are not restricted to the 1st century.

 

[Timtofly]

They are not restricted to the 1st century.

So the thousand years is not restricted to the 1st century?

That means it could still be in the future.

 

[WPM]

So the thousand years is not restricted to the 1st century?

That means it could still be in the future.

It is ongoing until Satan is removed from his restraints. It represents a long period of time. We could be there now. The mystery of iniquity will be released at the same time to delude the nations.

 

[Timtofly]

It is ongoing until Satan is removed from his restraints. It represents a long period of time. We could be there now. The mystery of iniquity will be released at the same time to delude the nations.

So still ongoing even after the Second Coming, as it is not restricted to any time since the Cross?

You think Satan is on a leash now. He will really be bound up after the Second.

 

[WPM]

So still ongoing even after the Second Coming, as it is not restricted to any time since the Cross?

You think Satan is on a leash now. He will really be bound up after the Second.

He will be released prior to the second coming. The restraint of the kingdom of darkness stays in effect until just before the second coming, when hell’s legions are collectively released – for a short season at the end. The release of Satan, beast (mystery of iniquity), and demons (scorpions) all occur just prior to the second coming. This proves that the symbolism of Revelation relates to the here-and-now.

Satan gets a little season to wreak havoc on the Church. When Satan is released for a little season then so is the beast, and Satan's minions. We see the devils in Revelation 9:2-3, the beast in 2 Thessalonians 2:3-12, Revelation 11:7 and Revelation 17:8, and Satan in Revelation 9:10-11 and Revelation 20:3 all being released before the second coming for a little season.

The end of the millennium and Satan's "little season" corresponds with the end time persecution spoke elsewhere in Revelation and in other Scripture orchestrated by antichrist/the beast (described as lasting 3 1/2 years). The millennium does not follow Revelation 17-19 in time, but rather parallels it. Revelation 20 is the last of 7 recapitulations.

 

[Timtofly]

He will be released prior to the second coming. The restraint of the kingdom of darkness stays in effect until just before the second coming, when hell’s legions are collectively released – for a short season at the end. The release of Satan, beast (mystery of iniquity), and demons (scorpions) all occur just prior to the second coming. This proves that the symbolism of Revelation relates to the here-and-now.

Satan gets a little season to wreak havoc on the Church. When Satan is released for a little season then so is the beast, and Satan's minions. We see the devils in Revelation 9:2-3, the beast in 2 Thessalonians 2:3-12, Revelation 11:7 and Revelation 17:8, and Satan in Revelation 9:10-11 and Revelation 20:3 all being released before the second coming for a little season.

The end of the millennium and Satan's "little season" corresponds with the end time persecution spoke elsewhere in Revelation and in other Scripture orchestrated by antichrist/the beast (described as lasting 3 1/2 years). The millennium does not follow Revelation 17-19 in time, but rather parallels it. Revelation 20 is the last of 7 recapitulations.

No verse ever states Satan is released prior to the Second Coming. You force that onto the text, or put your own imagined scenario into play. But certainly no corroboration.

You cannot even admit Satan is bound for a thousand years, because your thousand years is not restricted by time, so not even a thousand years.

You say people keep getting ressurected to reign over and over again, so the thousand years keeps starting over and over again. It will always be a thousand years into the future, until people stop being ressurected.

The "Church" is not even around when Satan is loosed. There is literally no verse that states this point. Revelation 20 never states the resurrection is about the church. The word saint does not always equate to the "Church".

Recapitulation is a private interpretation not found in Scripture any where.

The Church is currently in Paradise. We are only ambassadors representatives of the Church. This world is not our home.

"If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you."

"I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil. They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world. And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth. Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;"

Now we come to this future millennium that you deny. They have set up the camp of the saints. This camp has firmly been their home for a thousand years, nonstop. There was a defined beginning with a resurrection, and a defined end, when Satan was loosed. This is not a rolling millennium, nor indefinite. It had a specific beginning and a specific end. It is restricted to the Day of the Lord, because it is the Day of the Lord, that comes with the Second Coming of Christ the King. They are on earth and never die, and it is their home, not Paradise, that heavenly city.

"By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went. By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise: For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God."

This world was not Abraham's home either. He looked forward to Paradise. But he did not arrive until the Cross when Jesus removed all from Abraham's bosom and opened up Paradise to all the OT redeemed.

So you are missing the whole point of this camp of the saints, who are not the Church. The Church will be in Paradise for this thousand years. Those resurrected at the beginning will live in the camp of the saints for this thousand years. They will never leave this camp of the saints. And they are the target of this rebel human army led by Satan, who deceived them to turn on their own brethren. The camp of the saints is the first generation. These rebels are offspring 25 to 30 generations later.

Now you can claim this is just made up. But your scenario is even more made up. You cannot even state where these rebels came from nor who their forefathers were. You literally have no idea how they were even deceived, but not deceived prior to Satan being loosed. Deceived people cannot be deceived if they are already deceived.

You may as well call them the apostate church, since you have the church on earth anyway. They would be attacking their own brethren even in your scenario. An apostate church against the faithful camp of the saints. That is what being deceived would entail.

Right now this world is not our home, because we are sons of God and Paradise is our home. The totally opposite view of Revelation 20, where their home is the fixed camp of the saints for a fixed 1,000 years until Satan is loosed. Shortly after Satan is loosed, Jesus hands back creation to God, and current reality ceases, to make room for the next creation in Revelation 21. If you deny they live for a thousand years, what is the point? Leaving earth means the camp of the saints would remain empty after a hundred years. You won't let them have any offspring per the premill belief. Why do they not get to reign the whole time in the same place after they were resurrected and given life? They were given a thousand years of life. No verse states they were only given 100 years of life.

You do realize you have to change the whole theme of Revelation 20 to get your imagined spiritual indefinite non millennium?

 

[WPM]

No verse ever states Satan is released prior to the Second Coming. You force that onto the text, or put your own imagined scenario into play. But certainly no corroboration.

You cannot even admit Satan is bound for a thousand years, because your thousand years is not restricted by time, so not even a thousand years.

You say people keep getting ressurected to reign over and over again, so the thousand years keeps starting over and over again. It will always be a thousand years into the future, until people stop being ressurected.

The "Church" is not even around when Satan is loosed. There is literally no verse that states this point. Revelation 20 never states the resurrection is about the church. The word saint does not always equate to the "Church".

Recapitulation is a private interpretation not found in Scripture any where.

The Church is currently in Paradise. We are only ambassadors representatives of the Church. This world is not our home.

"If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you."

"I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil. They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world. And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth. Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;"

Now we come to this future millennium that you deny. They have set up the camp of the saints. This camp has firmly been their home for a thousand years, nonstop. There was a defined beginning with a resurrection, and a defined end, when Satan was loosed. This is not a rolling millennium, nor indefinite. It had a specific beginning and a specific end. It is restricted to the Day of the Lord, because it is the Day of the Lord, that comes with the Second Coming of Christ the King. They are on earth and never die, and it is their home, not Paradise, that heavenly city.

"By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went. By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise: For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God."

This world was not Abraham's home either. He looked forward to Paradise. But he did not arrive until the Cross when Jesus removed all from Abraham's bosom and opened up Paradise to all the OT redeemed.

So you are missing the whole point of this camp of the saints, who are not the Church. The Church will be in Paradise for this thousand years. Those resurrected at the beginning will live in the camp of the saints for this thousand years. They will never leave this camp of the saints. And they are the target of this rebel human army led by Satan, who deceived them to turn on their own brethren. The camp of the saints is the first generation. These rebels are offspring 25 to 30 generations later.

Now you can claim this is just made up. But your scenario is even more made up. You cannot even state where these rebels came from nor who their forefathers were. You literally have no idea how they were even deceived, but not deceived prior to Satan being loosed. Deceived people cannot be deceived if they are already deceived.

You may as well call them the apostate church, since you have the church on earth anyway. They would be attacking their own brethren even in your scenario. An apostate church against the faithful camp of the saints. That is what being deceived would entail.

Right now this world is not our home, because we are sons of God and Paradise is our home. The totally opposite view of Revelation 20, where their home is the fixed camp of the saints for a fixed 1,000 years until Satan is loosed. Shortly after Satan is loosed, Jesus hands back creation to God, and current reality ceases, to make room for the next creation in Revelation 21. If you deny they live for a thousand years, what is the point? Leaving earth means the camp of the saints would remain empty after a hundred years. You won't let them have any offspring per the premill belief. Why do they not get to reign the whole time in the same place after they were resurrected and given life? They were given a thousand years of life. No verse states they were only given 100 years of life.

You do realize you have to change the whole theme of Revelation 20 to get your imagined spiritual indefinite non millennium?

I like what John Metcalfe says: “One reads of a thousand hills, a thousand vines, a thousand Philistines, a thousand children of Bigvai, a thousand Ammonites, a thousand spears, a thousand camels, a thousand horses, a thousand chariots, a thousand judges, a thousand bullocks, a thousand rams, but never of a thousand years reign, no, not from Genesis to Malachi.”

And continues, “One can discover a thousand shields for a thousand Israelites, a thousand cubits and a thousand footmen to traverse them, a thousand talents and a thousand oxen to carry them, a thousand silver pieces and a thousand Edomites to covet them, a thousand baths and a thousand men to bathe in them, but what no one can find, no, not one of a thousand, is a thousand years reign at the end of time with the second coming of Christ preceding this millennial invention.”

 

[WPM]

No verse ever states Satan is released prior to the Second Coming. You force that onto the text, or put your own imagined scenario into play. But certainly no corroboration.

I presented you Scripture, but you avoided again. He will be released prior to the second coming. The restraint of the kingdom of darkness stays in effect until just before the second coming, when hell’s legions are collectively released – for a short season at the end. The release of Satan, beast (mystery of iniquity), and demons (scorpions) all occur just prior to the second coming. This proves that the symbolism of Revelation relates to the here-and-now.

Satan gets a little season to wreak havoc on the Church. When Satan is released for a little season then so is the beast, and Satan's minions. We see the devils in Revelation 9:2-3, the beast in 2 Thessalonians 2:3-12, Revelation 11:7 and Revelation 17:8, and Satan in Revelation 9:10-11 and Revelation 20:3 all being released before the second coming for a little season.

The end of the millennium and Satan's "little season" corresponds with the end time persecution spoke elsewhere in Revelation and in other Scripture orchestrated by antichrist/the beast (described as lasting 3 1/2 years). The millennium does not follow Revelation 17-19 in time, but rather parallels it. Revelation 20 is the last of 7 recapitulations.

 

[Timtofly]

I like what John Metcalfe says: “One reads of a thousand hills, a thousand vines, a thousand Philistines, a thousand children of Bigvai, a thousand Ammonites, a thousand spears, a thousand camels, a thousand horses, a thousand chariots, a thousand judges, a thousand bullocks, a thousand rams, but never of a thousand years reign, no, not from Genesis to Malachi.”

And continues, “One can discover a thousand shields for a thousand Israelites, a thousand cubits and a thousand footmen to traverse them, a thousand talents and a thousand oxen to carry them, a thousand silver pieces and a thousand Edomites to covet them, a thousand baths and a thousand men to bathe in them, but what no one can find, no, not one of a thousand, is a thousand years reign at the end of time with the second coming of Christ preceding this millennial invention.”

And this inspirational tidbit is still a private opinion.

 

[Timtofly]

I presented you Scripture, but you avoided again. He will be released prior to the second coming. The restraint of the kingdom of darkness stays in effect until just before the second coming, when hell’s legions are collectively released – for a short season at the end. The release of Satan, beast (mystery of iniquity), and demons (scorpions) all occur just prior to the second coming. This proves that the symbolism of Revelation relates to the here-and-now.

Satan gets a little season to wreak havoc on the Church. When Satan is released for a little season then so is the beast, and Satan's minions. We see the devils in Revelation 9:2-3, the beast in 2 Thessalonians 2:3-12, Revelation 11:7 and Revelation 17:8, and Satan in Revelation 9:10-11 and Revelation 20:3 all being released before the second coming for a little season.

The end of the millennium and Satan's "little season" corresponds with the end time persecution spoke elsewhere in Revelation and in other Scripture orchestrated by antichrist/the beast (described as lasting 3 1/2 years). The millennium does not follow Revelation 17-19 in time, but rather parallels it. Revelation 20 is the last of 7 recapitulations.

Since the Second Coming is before the Trumpets, your private opinionated interpretation, is after the Second Coming.

There is no verse that declares Revelation 20 parallels any other chapter of Revelation. Still waiting for all theses verses you have not posted stating such. All you have is your opinion.