Answering Predestination "Proof" Texts

[Phoneman777]

Grace saves those who cannot believe or want anything to do with God. If you think you had anything to do with your salvation, you get part of God's glory and deny grace.

I see the crux of the issue: Calvinists view God as a Dictator rather than the Gentleman He is. All through the OT and NT, more than anything, we find the exercise of faith encouraged, practiced, and rewarded.

Did not the Zidonian widow exercise her faith in Elijah while relying on nothing but his promise of deliverance? Did not Naaman?
Did not the Syro-Phoenician woman?
Did not the paralyzed man lowered through the roof to Jesus?
I'm even willing to believe the demoniac of Gadara knew Jesus was his only hope for deliverance, and his faith - rendered wholly inaudible by his demonic slavemasters - was heard loud and clear by my Savior.

Exercising faith is the equivalent of opening of the door upon which Jesus is knocking which allows Him entrance and it adds not a single nano-particle of weight or a micron of dimension to God's grace.

 

[Dave L]

I see the crux of the issue: Calvinists view God as a Dictator rather than the Gentleman He is. All through the OT and NT, more than anything, we find the exercise of faith encouraged, practiced, and rewarded.

Did not the Zidonian widow exercise her faith in Elijah while relying on nothing but his promise of deliverance? Did not Naaman?
Did not the Syro-Phoenician woman?
Did not the paralyzed man lowered through the roof to Jesus?
I'm even willing to believe the demoniac of Gadara knew Jesus was his only hope for deliverance and his faith, rendered wholly inaudible by his demonic slavemasters, was heard loud and clear by my Savior.

Exercising faith is the equivalent of opening of the door upon which Jesus is knocking which allows Him entrance and it adds not a single nano-particle of weight or a micron of dimension to God's grace.

So, if the Calvinists are right about God, you hate him?

 

[Phoneman777]

So, if the Calvinists are right about God, you hate him?

Would a woman hate the man who says he loves her, can't live without her, and asks to marry her...and then threatens to torment her unspeakably if she refuses?

Then we shouldn't blame anyone for hating the god of Calvinism, of which Christianity is in absolutely no danger of worshiping above because he's already busy running things down here.

 

[Nancy]

You're givin me a toothache, Nancy

Well, don't let it get infected so your head swells up too much, hahaha

 

[Preacher4Truth]

You don't understand the subject and are attacking your misunderstanding instead.

Yes. Erect straw man. Attack straw man. Feign victory. He has no idea what he's talking about.

Some attack in ignorance, and some attack in flagrance. I'd say the just due will be more severe for those who do the latter than those who do the former. I've not witnessed very often any of the latter come to repentance and knowledge of the truth; 2 Peter 3:9; 1 Timothy 2:4; 2 Timothy 3:7.

 

[CoreIssue]

All the manifest world - this world, and everything we can relate to...is contrived. Created. But what is written, and experiencing it all on a timeline, does not mean that it exists on a timeline...any more than any other story that is written. No, it is conceived and complete, then read and experienced over time...and that is called story time. That is what we have here.

But to answer a question about God such as this, the story time of what is written is not the correct context. The correct context is the timeless, eternity of God wherein the story was written and actually exists. In that context, all of this was not "predestined" as we understand the term, but pre-finished...just as a book that is written. Thus, as it is written, "in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye" (His eye), it was finished, and finished with all the details of our decision and His. Bam! In that, just as God is "I am", we too simply are. We are who we are, doing what we will do, according to what is written, according to our decision and His.

And so shall we live.

The slick Willie approach. It all depends on what is is.

Pushing Calvinism.

Foreknowledge does not equal predestination.

God predestines based on foreknowledge. He did not write a computer code to dictate everything that happens.

 

[CoreIssue]

You still have the problem of God saving only the self-righteous denying his grace which is unmerited.

That self-righteous nonsense again.

The truly born again come to Christ and repentance because they know they have no hope of saving themselves.

Dave L, the reality is that if you do not come to Christ and confess you are helpful sinner you will go to the lake.

But that requires you to understand you have to choose to repent.

You have to recognize you I'm not one of the chosen elite.

What a contradiction. You believe it's already been chosen in God's lottery with no input from us. That means all of you Calvinists on here trying to convert us cannot tell us what you're trying to convert us to. Acceptance that is not one of the elite we are damned to like? Or if one of the elite is a total waste of time to try to convert those who are not elite.

You guys make absolutely no sense.

 

[Enoch111]

I've not witnessed very often any of the latter come to repentance and knowledge of the truth

I wonder when Calvinists will repent of their false gospel. Probably never.

 

[Phoneman777]

This is not true. You need to place each topic in it's rightful context. It's like saying little kids hate medicine and then using it to define the hatred in racism.

News flash: the Second Person in the Godhead Who told us to "hate" our loved ones or else we can't be His disciple is the exact same Person in the Godhead in the OT Who said He "hated" Esau, so yeah, I think it's MORE than appropriate to let the same Person tell us what He means by "hate": to "prefer less".

 

[Phoneman777]

You are telling us that you neither repented nor believed on the Lord Jesus Christ and yet were somehow magically saved. That is definitely another gospel.

I simply cannot understand how someone can come to believe the only means by which we obtain salvation - which is to exercise our God given faith in God's promise of grace - is not only unnecessary but an insult to God. Mind is blown.

 

[Phoneman777]

Well, don't let it get infected so your head swells up too much, hahaha

LOL

 

[101G]

The Gospel is the Called of God.

Joel 2:32 "And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call”.

Now the question, "HOW". Romans 10:13 "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Romans 10:14 "How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
Romans 10:15 "And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

Believers are the “CALLED OUT ONES”, the church, again how are they called to believed?, the Gospel,
Romans 10:17 "So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. Again how are they called? see Romans 10:13-15 above.

So God is calling by his Gospel to all men. “WHOSOEVER”, what a mighty God we serve.

but the apostle Paul makes it PLAIN,

1 Corinthians 1:18 "For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

1 Corinthians 1:21 "For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

and who are the saved "Believers?", the called out ones? who are they, "WHOSOEVER" call on the Name of the LORD. they who hear the Gospe, and believe.

PICJAG.

 

[ScottA]

The slick Willie approach. It all depends on what is is.

Pushing Calvinism.

Foreknowledge does not equal predestination.

God predestines based on foreknowledge. He did not write a computer code to dictate everything that happens.

More inappropriate name-calling. Your M.O. when you don't have a leg to stand on. Go figure.

And there you go again thinking as a man. Foreknowledge is just another learning crutch for those of ancient times in need of an elementary explanation. Paul began this explanation with such terms, but finished with the need to renew your mind pressing on beyond the elementary principles of Christ. But here you are proving that there are still many living in that past, like the dead burying the dead, and having learned very little.

 

[CoreIssue]

More inappropriate name-calling. Your M.O. when you don't have a leg to stand on. Go figure.

And there you go again thinking as a man. Foreknowledge is just another learning crutch for those of ancient times in need of an elementary explanation. Paul began this explanation with such terms, but finished with the need to renew your mind pressing on beyond the elementary principles of Christ. But here you are proving that there are still many living in that past, like the dead burying the dead, and having learned very little.

What arrogance. Now you trying to explain away what the Bible says because you don't like.

 

[ScottA]

What arrogance. Now you trying to explain away what the Bible says because you don't like.

More name-calling.

Arrogance, because I expect someone who calls themselves a Christian to know the times? That is not arrogance and explaining away the bible, that is simply explaining the bible...which apparently you need.

 

[CoreIssue]

More name-calling.

Arrogance, because I expect someone who calls themselves a Christian to know the times? That is not arrogance and explaining away the bible, that is simply explaining the bible...which apparently you need.

All your explaining is your personal religion.

 

[ScottA]

All your explaining is your personal religion.

Says he who does not know his bible.

 

[CoreIssue]

Says he who does not know his bible.

Only according to your personal religion.

 

[Dave L]

News flash: the Second Person in the Godhead Who told us to "hate" our loved ones or else we can't be His disciple is the exact same Person in the Godhead in the OT Who said He "hated" Esau, so yeah, I think it's MORE than appropriate to let the same Person tell us what He means by "hate": to "prefer less".

You are trying to sell Fords on the merits of Rolls Royce. Bait and switch............

 

[Dave L]

That self-righteous nonsense again.

The truly born again come to Christ and repentance because they know they have no hope of saving themselves.

Dave L, the reality is that if you do not come to Christ and confess you are helpful sinner you will go to the lake.

But that requires you to understand you have to choose to repent.

You have to recognize you I'm not one of the chosen elite.

What a contradiction. You believe it's already been chosen in God's lottery with no input from us. That means all of you Calvinists on here trying to convert us cannot tell us what you're trying to convert us to. Acceptance that is not one of the elite we are damned to like? Or if one of the elite is a total waste of time to try to convert those who are not elite.

You guys make absolutely no sense.

You are robbing God of his glory in salvation, and giving it to yourself.