Anti- Christian Crusade.

[Marcus O'Reillius]

the issue is whether we are to LOVE unbelievers or vilify them and try and force them to follow OUR morality?

That's not the issue at all.

The issue is whether the ungodly can force us to go against our exercise of religion and force us to violate our morals.

 

[mjrhealth]

Its the difference between Love, Jesus way

Luk 19:1 And Jesus entered and passed through Jericho.
Luk 19:2 And, behold, there was a man named Zacchaeus, which was the chief among the publicans, and he was rich.
Luk 19:3 And he sought to see Jesus who he was; and could not for the press, because he was little of stature.
Luk 19:4 And he ran before, and climbed up into a sycomore tree to see him: for he was to pass that way.
Luk 19:5 And when Jesus came to the place, he looked up, and saw him, and said unto him, Zacchaeus, make haste, and come down; for to day I must abide at thy house.
Luk 19:6 And he made haste, and came down, and received him joyfully.

and some christians. Judgement and hate

Luk 19:1 And a christian entered and passed through Jericho.
Luk 19:2 And, behold, there was a man named Zacchaeus, which was the chief among the publicans, and he was rich.
Luk 19:3 And he sought to see the christian who he was; and could not for the press, because he was little of stature.
Luk 19:4 And he ran before, and climbed up into a sycomore tree to see him: for he was to pass that way.
Luk 19:5 And when the christian came to the place, he looked up, and saw him, and said unto him, Zacchaeus, im sorry I cannot abide at thy house. For you are a thief and a sinn er and if I eat with you, it may condone your sin.
Luk 19:6 And he was sad and angry and ran away in shame.

In all His Love

 

[StanJ]

That's not the issue at all.

The issue is whether the ungodly can force us to go against our exercise of religion and force us to violate our morals.

Your denial wasn't unexpected Marcus, but tell me...who is forcing you to do ANYTHING to violate your morals.

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

Your denial wasn't unexpected Marcus, but tell me...who is forcing you to do ANYTHING to violate your morals.

Tell me you're not that clueless. We're talking about the bakers who lost their bid to exercise their religion and not make a homocake. Where have you been?

 

[StanJ]

Tell me you're not that clueless. We're talking about the bakers who lost their bid to exercise their religion and not make a homocake. Where have you been?

I've been right here...you're the one that pops in and out sniping. We left the baker issue aside long time ago, but regardless, you avoided my question.

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

For someone who hasn't figured out how Eve became Adam's wife, you have no ground upon which to demand answers.

 

[Barrd]

That is what the whole debate was about...whether or not a Christian business had the right to refuse to cater to homosexuals...specifically, whether a Christian baker ought to be forced to provide a wedding cake for a homosexual wedding.
Should a Christian be forced to violate his conscience, and participate in sin?
Some seem to think that they can put their Christianity away in a box, and just take it out and polish it up on Sunday morning.
Some see no problem at all with compromising their faith, making friends with the world, and craving the world's approval. They are worried that if we do not accept homosexual marriage, the world will not like us...as if that's even an important consideration.

As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.

 

[mjrhealth]

That is what the whole debate was about...whether or not a Christian business had the right to refuse to cater to homosexuals...specifically, whether a Christian baker ought to be forced to provide a wedding cake for a homosexual wedding.

If this baker could not bake for sinnesr of which they are only one, hed be out of business and couldn teven cook for you. sad isnt it Bard. I guess he would have to decide which sin is worse than another and play God.

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

That is what the whole debate was about...whether or not a Christian business had the right to refuse to cater to homosexuals...specifically, whether a Christian baker ought to be forced to provide a wedding cake for a homosexual wedding.
Should a Christian be forced to violate his conscience, and participate in sin?
Some seem to think that they can put their Christianity away in a box, and just take it out and polish it up on Sunday morning.
Some see no problem at all with compromising their faith, making friends with the world, and craving the world's approval. They are worried that if we do not accept homosexual marriage, the world will not like us...as if that's even an important consideration.

As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.

Exactly.

Forcing them to participate in something they not do agree with and which they know is a sin - is wrong.

They had no problem making pastries for this particular customer until he wanted this particular cake.

 

[mjrhealth]

What you too dont seem to realise is every time you call them sinner , you are sinning against them, every time you deny them, you deny Christ, as he said,

Mat 25:42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
Mat 25:43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
Mat 25:44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
Mat 25:45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

I hope for your sakes that they can forgive you, since they have not sinned against you.

in all his Love

 

[Barrd]

Exactly.

Forcing them to participate in something they not do agree with and which they know is a sin - is wrong.

They had no problem making pastries for this particular customer until he wanted this particular cake.

Yet some seem to think that those of us who refuse to compromise our faith must therefore "hate" homosexuals.
Not at all.
There is no refusal to wait on them under ordinary circumstances, I don't know why some folks don't "get" that.
As you say, the bakery had already sold their goods to them. They could come into that bakery and buy whatever they wanted--cupcakes, cookies, brownies....even cake.
Just not a wedding cake for a pair of lesbians.
No one ever said that they "hated" the girls. Only that they refused to participate in their sin.

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

Yeah, and the silly thing is being called a hater by people who call themselves Christian and want us to "love" them.

These "free-love" types mix up a lot of things.

• Calling a sinner a sinner is not a sin.
• To deny being involved in sin is not to deny Christ.
• We don't hate the sinner when we love Jesus' commands not to sin.
• Arguing for following man's law waters down God's Law.

 

[Barrd]

Yeah, and the silly thing is being called a hater by people who call themselves Christian and want us to "love" them.

These "free-love" types mix up a lot of things.

• Calling a sinner a sinner is not a sin.
• To deny being involved in sin is not to deny Christ.
• We don't hate the sinner when we love Jesus' commands not to sin.
• Arguing for following man's law waters down God's Law.

I was sure that Jesus had commanded Christians everywhere to love one another with the same kind of love that He had for us.
Evidently, a few didn't get that memo.

I was also sure that the same Jesus had told us that, if we love Him, we should obey His commands.
I love Him, therefore, I will do my level best, with His help, to obey His commands.

Including, but not limited to, His command forbidding homosexual relations. Not only am I forbidden from having sex with another woman (ewww), but I am also forbidden from aiding and abetting anyone else, male or female, who are involved in such a relationship. I may not, then, provide a wedding cake for them, or any other such thing.
The only thing I may do, is to try to help them to put this sin out of their lives, because, by continuing in it, they are ensuring their eternity in hell.

I don't understand how some Christians are so willing to "love" these sinners into hell. With a cake, no less.
Would they love any other sinners...child molesters, rapists, murderers...and provide cake for them, on their way to hell?
Heck, most Christians I know do not hesitate to pile invective on such sinners. But, what if it were to become "politically correct"? What if, for instance, NAMBLA ever figures out that gay marriage being legal does mean that it is now possible for them to marry their little boys from at least 14? Of course, they are going to take advantage of that. I suppose those who are so accepting of "homosexual marriage" (an oxymoron if there ever was one) will be just as enthusiastic about providing cake, and flowers, etc, for such a "wedding".
Oh, and photographs, too, so that the little boys' parents can always remember the "happy occasion". I'm sure there will be much joy for the parents on the first anniversary, when the kid is 15.
What happens when he hits 18, or 20, and the attraction begins to fade? What happens when the pedarist begins to look around for younger partners?
16, and already "divorced" from his first love....what a sad, sad thought....

 

[epostle1]

(CNSNews.com) – Cardinal Francis George, head of the Catholic archdiocese of Chicago, said the levers of power in government, education, entertainment, and media are enforcing a “public creed,” a “fake church” that requires all citizens to approve of gay marriage and related sexual anomalies or be punished by the State, just “as Christians and Jews are fined for their religion in countries governed by Sharia law.”
http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/michael-w-chapman/cardinal-us-creed-gay-marriage-sharia-law

 

[StanJ]

For someone who hasn't figured out how Eve became Adam's wife, you have no ground upon which to demand answers.

Nothing to figure out for me...I understand the language and vernacular used. It is you who doesn't get it, but that aside answer the questions or stop making accusations and assertions with NO corroboration.

 

[StanJ]

That is what the whole debate was about...whether or not a Christian business had the right to refuse to cater to homosexuals...specifically, whether a Christian baker ought to be forced to provide a wedding cake for a homosexual wedding.
Should a Christian be forced to violate his conscience, and participate in sin?
Some seem to think that they can put their Christianity away in a box, and just take it out and polish it up on Sunday morning.
Some see no problem at all with compromising their faith, making friends with the world, and craving the world's approval. They are worried that if we do not accept homosexual marriage, the world will not like us...as if that's even an important consideration.

As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.

Than I suggest you read the OP.

Regardless, if a Christian decides to operate under a business licence issued by an authority, they are bound by the rules that govern those licenses. If they don't want to live by them, then don't open a bakery. Christians don't have exemptions to any of the laws of the land, despite some thinking they should. That kind of thinking is right up there with Jeb Bush saying "only allow Christian refugees in from Syria".

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

You don't get it Stan. It's called a religious exemption.

That's why muslim truck drivers who get fired for not delivering a load of alcohol get away with it and get rewarded- but Christians are financially ruined.

God married Adam and Eve - from the beginning Jesus said - and He was there.

 

[Barrd]

Any law that interferes with the freedom to practice any religion without interference from the government is automatically unconstitutional.

That is why, as Marcus tells us, Muslims are not fined for refusing to deliver alcohol. Doesn't matter if I'm having a wedding, no Muslim delivery service is going to deliver the booze for the reception.

And you can believe, they aren't going bake any cake for any gay wedding, either.

Now why do they get away with this when Christians are financially destroyed?

Might have something to do with that head-chopping thing...

 

[StanJ]

You don't get it Stan. It's called a religious exemption.

That's why muslim truck drivers who get fired for not delivering a load of alcohol get away with it and get rewarded- but Christians are financially ruined.

God married Adam and Eve - from the beginning Jesus said - and He was there.

Apparently YOU don't get it. http://www.civilrights.org/lgbt/enda/religious-exemption.html They are for people, not for businesses.

What you allude to, were truckers forced to go against their religious beliefs by their employer, which are the same rights that protect you. Not surprising I guess, that you feel your rights are more important than any other citizen.

God did NOT marry Adam and Eve, Adam pledged himself to Eve, which you would know if you bothered to read Gen 2:23

 

[StanJ]

Any law that interferes with the freedom to practice any religion without interference from the government is automatically unconstitutional.
That is why, as Marcus tells us, Muslims are not fined for refusing to deliver alcohol. Doesn't matter if I'm having a wedding, no Muslim delivery service is going to deliver the booze for the reception.
And you can believe, they aren't going bake any cake for any gay wedding, either.
Now why do they get away with this when Christians are financially destroyed?
Might have something to do with that head-chopping thing...

That would be your opinion...NOT fact. That LAW was upheld by the courts, but apparently you don't think much of the courts or laws unless they support your own particular POV, no matter how biased?

Apparently courts know what is and ISN'T actual religious conviction, and see that when Christians claim it, it is not necessarily so, but simply personal bias/bigotry.

Kinda sad so many Christians delude themselves with their OWN self righteousness, when Jesus clearly tells us He is our righteousness.