Anti- Christian Crusade.

[Barrd]

So you insist on twisting my words?

Of course I am...we are instructed to question ALL spirits. Never said I was perfect...I just don't go about vilifying unbelievers, which is exactly what Jesus taught us NOT to do. Who is your neighbour?

I'm sure you will.

I told you that I got my instruction straight from the Bible.
Your answer was that I had not been PROPERLY instructed.
Whatever, Stan....I am not looking for instruction from a stranger in a web site. If I were, I've had plenty of volunteers on this site, a couple of them far more qualified for the position than you.
I do not want or need an instructor, but I might listen to a friend, even though I don't agree with him.
But as you pointed out, you are not my friend.

You want to judge me, you go right on ahead....but I'll tell you ahead of time, your judgment means nothing to me. If we were friends, your disapproval might bother me. I'm rather sensitive that way. But you cleared up that misconception.
We are not friends. Fair enough.
So, why should I care what you think of me?
You did not die for me.
You can not give me eternal life.

Have you ever heard me "vilify" anyone? I said that homosexual sex is a sin, and so it is. I said it was no different than any other perversion. And there, in Lev 8, it is included in a long list of sexual perversions. I said that Christians should not encourage it, and we shouldn't.

If anyone is being vilified in this thread, it is Marcus and I.

Who is my neighbor? Well, Stan, if I should happen to see you beaten and bloody and lying in a ditch, I will stop and help you. If I see you naked, or hungry, or sick, or in prison, I will minister unto you. I will continue to show you the love a Christian should show to others.
But I no longer consider you my friend, or my brother. I have lost all the admiration and respect that I had for you. There will be no more friendly interchange between you and I. Frankly, at this particular moment, I have a higher regard for River than I have for you. She may be biased, but at least she's consistent. She gets a star for that.

Yeah, Stan, I'm pretty resilient. After raising seven kids by myself, I've been insulted and betrayed before....you did not get a virgin there.
In fact, I'm pretty much over it already.
After all, you're just a nameless face in the crowd....and really, not nearly as bright as you seem to think you are. I've cut you a lot of slack in the past, because I thought we were friends, but honestly, you don't impress me as being terribly intelligent. You tend to rely heavily on others to tell you what to think.
Does your opinion matter to me?
Let me put it this way:
My Grandmother taught me a long time ago that a person's opinion is only worth as much as the person himself.
I've tested your spirit, Stan, and found it wanting.

Nuff said....

 

[Barrd]

No one here is perfect.
We have all sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God.

There is a heck of a lot of difference between asking God to forgive our sins...

And proudly parading our sins down Main Street.

 

[Born_Again]

The man asked you for a sandwich.
While you're at it, you can make one for me, too...

Both of you stop it. It is one thing for some to jump on a bandwagon because someone is wrong and the others feel they are right. Then to provide scriptural or studious evidence of why they are wrong or right. But I feel it is rather juvenile to jump on a bandwagon with insults. A poke here and a jab there is tolerable but if it becomes an all out insult war then we might as pretend we are in third grade.

Clean it up, folks.

 

[Barrd]

Both of you stop it. It is one thing for some to jump on a bandwagon because someone is wrong and the others feel they are right. Then to provide scriptural or studious evidence of why they are wrong or right. But I feel it is rather juvenile to jump on a bandwagon with insults. A poke here and a jab there is tolerable but if it becomes an all out insult war then we might as pretend we are in third grade.

Clean it up, folks.

Your point is well taken, BA.
We did provide scriptural evidence here. If you've been following along, I'm sure you've noticed that. We've been posting scriptural evidence, while fielding insults, all along.
There are some folks there is just no being "nice" to.
It makes me sad to do it, but if he's going to continue to get under my skin, I suppose I ought to put him, along with the other two jer....ummm....users....in my ignore list.
(sigh)

 

[Barrd]

Both of you stop it. It is one thing for some to jump on a bandwagon because someone is wrong and the others feel they are right. Then to provide scriptural or studious evidence of why they are wrong or right. But I feel it is rather juvenile to jump on a bandwagon with insults. A poke here and a jab there is tolerable but if it becomes an all out insult war then we might as pretend we are in third grade.

Clean it up, folks.

You know, I just noticed....you said "both of you" as in two.
We know that I'm one of the two. Who is the other one?
By my count, there are three of us involved in the conversation...and all three are guilty of "pokes" and "jabs".
So, other than me, who are you referring to?

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

I was offended at being called a hateful jerk. The "degradation" of making me a sandwich was a play on me making Stan my wife. If Stan wants to be ultra-literal and insist Genesis portray the wedding ceremony before he realizes God made Eve Adam's wife only through marriage: that's his problem, i.e., not being able to see the forest for the trees.

I am getting a little thin-skinned at the insults being hurled here and the shots Barrd and I have had to take. Forgive me for responding in kind; I'll try to refrain from doing so in the future. However, some foolishness must be called what it is if we're to stay true to what's in the Bible.

 

[Barrd]

Yes, we are both getting a bit thin skinned. We've both taken quite a bit of abuse in this thread before responding in kind.
I will accept the reprimand, because I know that I was wrong to insult him, or anyone in these threads. I edited my comment.
It just didn't "feel" right. I should not have given voice to my feelings in such a way.
But the sentiment behind it has not gone anywhere.

Like Marcus, I will try to refrain in the future.

But I still think that Stan should also be called out for his bad behavior in this thread.

But, like Marcus, I believe with all of my heart that we have an obligation to stand up for the truth of the Bible. It is God's Word, and in it's pages, He reveals Himself to us. It is precious to us, and it is, or should be, our final authority.

 

[River Jordan]

The fact is that gay sex is against God's law. That is a fact.
It is a fact that Jesus told us that if we love Him we will obey Him. That is a fact.
It is a fact that those who are dedicated to Christ will uphold His law. That is a fact.
Therefore we will not accept homosexuality as "normal" or "natural".
It is a fact that Jesus tells us that we are to repent of our sins...that is to turn from them.
Mat 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
You should know all of these things.
But you defend and uphold homosexuality regardless of what you know that God has said about it. That is shocking to me.

At this point, I really don't know what else to say. Apparently no matter how many times I tell you, no matter how many times I go out of my way to emphasize the point, you still cannot or will not understand that I am not arguing that homosexuality is not a sin. Whether because of your limitations or unwillingness, it doesn't matter....it's just not getting through to you.

So with that, I will thank you for your time.

 

[Barrd]

At this point, I really don't know what else to say. Apparently no matter how many times I tell you, no matter how many times I go out of my way to emphasize the point, you still cannot or will not understand that I am not arguing that homosexuality is not a sin. Whether because of your limitations or unwillingness, it doesn't matter....it's just not getting through to you.

So with that, I will thank you for your time.

What you don't seem to understand, no matter how many times I try to explain it to you, is that, because it is a sin, as a Christian, I can neither endorse it, encourage it, or participate in it in any way.
The government of the country I live in has legalized it, although, again, I am not sure the Supreme Court was acting within the law when it did so.
However, the government of the Kingdom of Heaven has not legalized it. Therefore, for me and for anyone else who obeys the King, it is still against the law. It doesn't matter that it might be legal for the world...for Christians it is not legal.
My limitation is set by the Lord that I follow.
My unwillingness is His unwillingness that any sinner should continue in his sin and end up in hell. I do not understand how you aren't getting that.
It isn't that you haven't gotten through to me. I understand what you have said. Because I am loyal to my faith, I am a "hateful jerk", as I recall, along with everyone else who refuses to accept this sin-made-law.

There is hate being spewed on both sides of this issue, River....it is not one-way hate. And it is wrong on both sides.
But for some reason you only want to focus on a few Christian leaders who have said some outrageous things, to the shame of the church.
It doesn't seem to matter to you that there has been even more hatred hurled at Christians....by the "gay movement", by the media, evidently...and the worst blow of all...by other Christians.

It is nice that you are thanking me for my time....but evidently, my time with you has been wasted. It seems that I have not gotten anywhere with you, sadly.

It is one thing to love people, in spite of their sin. And may God bless you for that.
It is something else altogether to condone their sin. If you truly love them, River, you will tell them the truth.

How horrible, for a Christian to love the sinner right into hell.....with a cake and a hug, no less...

 

[River Jordan]

Because I am loyal to my faith, I am a "hateful jerk", as I recall, along with everyone else who refuses to accept this sin-made-law.

To be clear, I never called you a hateful jerk.

It is something else altogether to condone their sin. If you truly love them, River, you will tell them the truth.

How horrible, for a Christian to love the sinner right into hell.....with a cake and a hug, no less...

Unbelievable....absolutely unbelievable how you do this.

 

[Barrd]

At this point, I really don't know what else to say. Apparently no matter how many times I tell you, no matter how many times I go out of my way to emphasize the point, you still cannot or will not understand that I am not arguing that homosexuality is not a sin. Whether because of your limitations or unwillingness, it doesn't matter....it's just not getting through to you.

So with that, I will thank you for your time.

You asked me time and time again, why this one sin was "singled out", as if Christians do not protest any other sin.
I tried to tell you that, for me, this sin is a minor ripple in the sea of sewage which the world seems to have become.
No, for me, the really important issue is abortion...another battle that Christians are losing.
I have long been on the front lines of that one, River....giving speeches, interviewing for an article in a local newspaper, I once had a radio spot, passing out petitions, and even helping to arrange a "march on Montgomery.
I am, to this day, a volunteer at an abortion alternative center here in Alabama. Mostly, we deal with young women in crisis pregnancies who do not want to abort, but we do get a few who have had abortions, and need post abortion counseling....a service they evidently can't get anywhere else.
I wish you could hear some of the stories I have heard....sad, heartbreaking tales, they are.
Most of the girls in abortion clinics desperately do not want to be there. You'd be surprised how many would really rather keep their babies.
But nobody wants to hear about that.

 

[Barrd]

To be clear, I never called you a hateful jerk.

Didn't you?
I'm pretty sure you did say that folks who would not accept or cater to homosexuality....those who publicly called it a sin....were "hateful jerks".
Perhaps the barb was not aimed at me personally....just everyone who thinks as I do.

And you wanted to know how I would justify turning young people away from the gospel, which is simply ridiculous.
Why, repentance of sins IS the gospel. The whole point is that we have sinned, but Jesus came to redeem us from our sin. It is our sin that put Him on the cross...yes, including the sin of homosexual sex.
They, and you, and everyone else needs to know this.

Unbelievable....absolutely unbelievable how you do this.

Do what, River?
You are a Christian, you know the final destination of unrepentant sinners, just as I do.
The wages of sin is death, I know that you know this.
Now, it doesn't matter what a person thinks that they believe, God is very real, and I know that you know that, too.
It doesn't matter whether the sin is legal according to man's government or not, I know you know that, as well.

You know that these homosexuals who do not repent of their sin, who continue to live in it, and indulge it, are surely headed for hell, just like any other unrepentant sinner, from the nasty neighborhood gossip, right up to the serial killer. We may think that some sins are "worse" than others...but unless they repent and turn from their sin, whatever it is, they all wind up in the same place.
And I'm pretty sure you know that.

Again, I will continue to say
it is one thing to love the sinner. Jesus also loved sinners, so much, that He died for us.

It is something else altogether to love them into hell....with a cake and a hug, no less.
Because that is exactly what you, and what others like you, are doing.

Who cares more about the eternal fate of the lesbians who came to Mellissa's Sweet Cakes one afternoon?
Was it Aaron and Mellissa Klien, who refused to bake a cake for them based on their religious belief?

Or is it River Jordan, who would give them that cake and bless their union?

 

[StanJ]

Just because something is legal, doesn't make it alright.
Abortion is legal. It is still murder, and it is still against God's law....but it is legal.
No-fault divorce is legal....and we have just examined Jesus' opinion of that.

If you are a believer, you uphold God's law.
"If you love Me," says Jesus, "obey My commands."
Unbelievers, of course, will not do this.
Believers are subject to God's law. I don't have to remind you that Jesus is God made flesh, do I?
When we deal with unbelievers, we are still subject to God's law. Either we are Christians all the time, or we are not Christians at all.
There's a bit more to being a Christian than gong to church. There's more to it than saying a pretty prayer, or getting wet. If your faith does not change the way you live your life, then is it real faith or just posturing?

I don't believe gays will save themselves, whether they are practicing sex or not...and that is the problem. They cannot save themselves, any more than you or I can. They need God.
But how will they ever learn of God, when His followers will not tell them the truth? Do you think those gays in their Metropolitan churches are being told the truth?
There is no "legal right" to perversion, Stan. If you believe that, why aren't you agitating for all those other sexual practices in Lev 18 to be legalized? How about we bake a nice wedding cake for the couple where the stepdad is now living with his stepdaughter. I know I mentioned them in another thread, but maybe you missed it. This is a Baptist couple living here in my town...real people. The Mom is devastated, but there it is. Her daughter is just waiting for the divorce to be final. And, hey....their marriage, should they actually go through with it, will be legal, right? But that doesn't make it alright, does it?

To me, a believer is someone who walks with Jesus through all facets of their lives. If it is a no-no to steal while I'm in church, it is still a no-no at WalMart, or at my friend's house, or at the Mall, or anywhere else I happen to be. If I know someone else is doing it, I do not encourage them in it. I might even turn them in.
Having sex with a dog is a no-no. Doesn't matter where or when it happens, or even if our wonky government should legalize it...they haven't yet, but at this point, who knows? It would still be wrong.

I suspect NAMBLA will be the next to step out and start agitating for their "marriage" to be legal. And there are precedents...there are loopholes that allow girls as young as 14 in some cases to marry an older man, so why not a young boy? Should Christians accept it?

I say NO!

You're just repeating yourself AGAIN Barrd. The issue is NOT what is legal and what isn't, the issue is whether we are to LOVE unbelievers or vilify them and try and force them to follow OUR morality? You and Marcus clearly are on that side, which is NOT according to the law of love that you just quoted above. IF you love Jesus, you are saved, and if you are saved you are part of the Body of Christ, HIS church. IF that is the case, you are subject to how the Holy Spirit rules, if you are not, you're not, period.

ONLY Jesus saves, and that He does by grace and love, NOT BY WORKS, so that ANY can boast. These are all basic you talk around but never acknowledge. IMO you are so consumed with your personal POV, that you miss what Jesus and ALL the scriptures teach. Do you obey Jesus as your personal saviour, or only because you follow the written laws?

Nobody is governed by God, and His laws, IF they have not asked Jesus to be their saviour. That is salvation 101. If we agree with God as to what He says sin is, that is our responsibility. It is NOT to run around and vilify unbelievers because they sin. You realize you have always ignored what Paul says about this in 1 Cor 5? Why is that?

Bringing up NAMBLA, is obfuscation and NOT the issue. You continually deflect to lead away from the actual issue.

 

[Barrd]

You're just repeating yourself AGAIN Barrd. The issue is NOT what is legal and what isn't, the issue is whether we are to LOVE unbelievers or vilify them and try and force them to follow OUR morality? You and Marcus clearly are on that side, which is NOT according to the law of love that you just quoted above. IF you love Jesus, you are saved, and if you are saved you are part of the Body of Christ, HIS church. IF that is the case, you are subject to how the Holy Spirit rules, if you are not, you're not, period.

You have never heard me or Marcus vilify anyone. Yeah, we picked on you, a little bit...but you left yourself wide open.
So, you think you are "loving" these sinners? Are you, do you think?
You do know that unrepentant sinners end up in hell, right? If you think these precious sinners are being vilified now, what do you think they are going to suffer through eternity? And somehow, that's okay with you, and you call that "love"?
Is it love, then, to usher them into that horrible fate?
Or would it be more loving to bring them to a place of repentance, where they could also have eternal life?
Wouldn't it be more loving to tell them the truth, in the hope that they, also, may come to know and love Jesus?

ONLY Jesus saves, and that He does by grace and love, NOT BY WORKS, so that ANY can boast. These are all basic you talk around but never acknowledge. IMO you are so consumed with your personal POV, that you miss what Jesus and ALL the scriptures teach. Do you obey Jesus as your personal saviour, or only because you follow the written laws?

Yes, our salvation is of Christ, alone, and not of works, lest any should boast. That is very true.
It is also true that faith without works is dead. And didn't James also say:

Jas 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

It's no good to sit on your holy rear end and do nothing. That is not what got Abraham into the "hall of faith"is it?

In your opinion? I think we've established about how much your opinion is worth, already. It is God's opinion that counts here, not yours.

Didn't Jesus say "If you love me, keep my commandments"? If you love Him, why aren't you keeping His commandments? Didn't He say that His sheep hear His voice? Do you hear His voice? Didn't He say that His sheep follow Him? Are you following Him?

It appears to me that you are the one who is so obsessed with your personal POV that you have missed Jesus completely. He is very real, to me, but I think that to you, He is no more than a pretty church icon.

Nobody is governed by God, and His laws, IF they have not asked Jesus to be their saviour. That is salvation 101. If we agree with God as to what He says sin is, that is our responsibility. It is NOT to run around and vilify unbelievers because they sin. You realize you have always ignored what Paul says about this in 1 Cor 5? Why is that?

Did you actually say that nobody is governed by God and His laws? So, Jesus was not governed by God's laws, which are His Own laws? He did not teach His disciples to keep His law? And also instruct them to go into all nations and teach them all that He had taught them? Didn't Jesus plainly say "If you love me, keep my commandments"? Do you think that, because you are "saved" that it is now okay to sin all you like?
In the words of Paul, "God forbid!"
Wasn't it sin that put our Lord up on that cross? Should we continue to sin because He has set us free?
What do you think "sin" is, anyway?
Aren't we plainly told that sin is the transgression of the law?

You honestly think that, because you are "saved" that God's law does not apply to you? Buddy, I'm afraid that you are in for a terrible shock...especially if you've been teaching this nonsense to others.

I read your verse in 1 Cor 5. It is dealing with some guy who is having sex with his mother in law....one of the sexual perversions listed in Lev 18.
They were to toss the guy out, and not have any fellowship with him.
Somehow you think that it would be okay to coddle him if he were not a part of the church? I don't get that at all.
And, in case you had not noticed, this homosexual perversion has made it's way into the church...didn't we discuss this?

Bringing up NAMBLA, is obfuscation and NOT the issue. You continually deflect to lead away from the actual issue.

Do you seriously think that, now that homosexuality has been made legal, that other perversions aren't peeking around that open door, to see if they can maybe get a foot in there?
Haven't we already heard from polygamists? The way the law reads, I'm not sure that we can deny them the "basic civil right" to marry.
And since it is now legal for two men to get "married", and since we do have loopholes that do allow a girl as young as 14 to marry, what is to stop some old pedarist to squirm through these loopholes with his young catamite?
Why not NAMBLA? Hasn't the stage been beautifully set for their grand entrance?

And what, to you, is "the actual issue"? That people like me and Marcus are not running to embrace sin? That we continue to observe God's law? I believe I can speak for us both, and for others like us when I say....that's not gonna change.

 

[StanJ]

You have never heard me or Marcus vilify anyone. Yeah, we picked on you, a little bit...but you left yourself wide open.
So, you think you are "loving" these sinners? Are you, do you think?
You do know that unrepentant sinners end up in hell, right? If you think these precious sinners are being vilified now, what do you think they are going to suffer through eternity? And somehow, that's okay with you, and you call that "love"?
Is it love, then, to usher them into that horrible fate?
Or would it be more loving to bring them to a place of repentance, where they could also have eternal life?
Wouldn't it be more loving to tell them the truth, in the hope that they, also, may come to know and love Jesus?

Well then YOU don't know what the word means, and no you didn't vilify me, and BA already warned about what WAS being posted.
I love them with Christ's love, as I am not the loving type.
That's not the point Barrd, and I'm sure you know that. Were you called the spread the good news of reconciliation, or to point out everyone's sin? Preaching the legalistic law is NOT love, it's judgementalism. God deals with each of us individually, and as Paul said, whatever is NOT of FAITH is sin. You apparently think all the Bible is for unbelievers, when it is in fact ONLY to believers. You seem to think that unless you point out sin in unbelievers lives, they won't get saved, even though Jesus Himself tells us only God can draw us to Himself.
We are to preach JESUS, and Him crucified, not what YOU deem to be sin in ALL unbeliever's lives.
You have quite the corrupted view of love. I suggest you re-read 1 Cor 13 a few times to get a handle on how WE, as believers, are to practise love.

 

[StanJ]

Yes, our salvation is of Christ, alone, and not of works, lest any should boast. That is very true.
It is also true that faith without works is dead. And didn't James also say:
Jas 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

It's no good to sit on your holy rear end and do nothing. That is not what got Abraham into the "hall of faith"is it?

In your opinion? I think we've established about how much your opinion is worth, already. It is God's opinion that counts here, not yours.

Didn't Jesus say "If you love me, keep my commandments"? If you love Him, why aren't you keeping His commandments? Didn't He say that His sheep hear His voice? Do you hear His voice? Didn't He say that His sheep follow Him? Are you following Him?

It appears to me that you are the one who is so obsessed with your personal POV that you have missed Jesus completely. He is very real, to me, but I think that to you, He is no more than a pretty church icon.

You talking apples and oranges again. Salvic faith is NOT the same as a walk of faith, which is what James deals with. We are NOT saved by works, but out salvation should produce good works. I find it sad you also equivocate about this as well.

My read end is not holy, and this type of comment just shows you LACK of knowledge. Abraham had faith in God's promise. He didn't run around telling everyone about their sins, he told them to believe that God's promise would come true.

Actually it has been established, which apparently bugs the heck out of you and makes you continue to be derisive.
If you don't agree with God's word, then how can you agree with God?

How do you know I'm NOT? Assuming that, just because I advocate a loving and non-confrontational attitude to gays, as opposed to your spewing vitriol towards them, and distinguish between the sin and the sinner, makes you resort to questioning my salvation? Your true SELF is really starting to show up here Barrd, and it ain't pretty!

I don't know how you can say He is real to you when you continually mock me and what Jesus says in His written word, then prevaricate about totally unrelated issues?

 

[StanJ]

Did you actually say that nobody is governed by God and His laws?

You honestly think that, because you are "saved" that God's law does not apply to you? Buddy, I'm afraid that you are in for a terrible shock...especially if you've been teaching this nonsense to others.

I read your verse in 1 Cor 5. It is dealing with some guy who is having sex with his mother in law....one of the sexual perversions listed in Lev 18.
They were to toss the guy out, and not have any fellowship with him.
Somehow you think that it would be okay to coddle him if he were not a part of the church? I don't get that at all.
And, in case you had not noticed, this homosexual perversion has made it's way into the church...didn't we discuss this?

Another example of how you dishonestly prevaricate about what I do post. Do you not see that people will think you are being totally dishonest by doing this? I won't answer questions that are fabricated out of
lies.

God writes His laws on our hearts, and they apply to ONLY me. Not to you or anyone. For sure what you spout does not apply to anyone as it is NOT from a sound understanding of God's will, or the Holy Spirit.

You see the sin, but not the admonition to let God be the sole judge to the world. You are so fixated on sin you can't seem to see ANYTHING else. Blindness begets more blindness.
The principle of what is to be dealt with IN the church, is the same regardless of what the sin is. Married gays would be just as relevant here as, seeing as Paul is dealing with ALL sexually immorality and NOT just this kind, or do you think Paul would have a different teaching for each type of sexual immorality? <_<
I think it has become painfully obvious to many, that you cannot be honest in your perceptions or questions, and that you will continue to prevaricate and equivocate about what is being said.

 

[Barrd]

Well then YOU don't know what the word means, and no you didn't vilify me, and BA already warned about what WAS being posted.

vilify








verb vil·i·fy \ˈvi-lə-ˌfī\

: to say or write very harsh and critical things about (someone or something)



vil·i·fiedvil·i·fy·ing
Full Definition of VILIFY
transitive verb

1
: to lower in estimation or importance

2
: to utter slanderous and abusive statements against : defame

You are aware, I'm sure, that for something to be slander, it must be untrue?
No one here is uttering anything untrue, or even saying harsh or critical things about homosexuals.
All that is being said is that it is a sin.
That's it.

I love them with Christ's love, as I am not the loving type.

Stan, Christ died for them.
Somehow, I don't see you giving up anything for anyone, much less dying for a sinner.

That's not the point Barrd, and I'm sure you know that. Were you called the spread the good news of reconciliation, or to point out everyone's sin?

Now, why would anyone worry about "reconciliation" unless they understood that there was a reason that they need to reconcile? What, according to you, is "the good news of reconciliation", if it is not that Christ died for your sin?
Did He die so that you can continue to sin?

Preaching the legalistic law is NOT love, it's judgementalism.

There is no such word as "judgementalism"....and if there were, there would be no "e" after the judg.

God deals with each of us individually, and as Paul said, whatever is NOT of FAITH is sin. You apparently think all the Bible is for unbelievers, when it is in fact ONLY to believers. You seem to think that unless you point out sin in unbelievers lives, they won't get saved, even though Jesus Himself tells us only God can draw us to Himself.

Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

We are to preach JESUS, and Him crucified, not what YOU deem to be sin in ALL unbeliever's lives.
You have quite the corrupted view of love. I suggest you re-read 1 Cor 13 a few times to get a handle on how WE, as believers, are to practise love.

If we preach Jesus, and Him crucified, don't you think we ought to mention that it was sin that put Him on that cross?
Again, it is not love to send someone to hell.
And practice is spelled with a "c" at the end....not an "s".

 

[Barrd]

You talking apples and oranges again. Salvic faith is NOT the same as a walk of faith, which is what James deals with. We are NOT saved by works, but out salvation should produce good works. I find it sad you also equivocate about this as well.

So, "salvic faith" is not the same as a "walk of faith"....hmmm.

Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

My read end is not holy, and this type of comment just shows you LACK of knowledge. Abraham had faith in God's promise. He didn't run around telling everyone about their sins, he told them to believe that God's promise would come true.

First of all, you have misspelled "rear". I isn't "read end", it is "rear end".
Secondly, i find it interesting that you took my comment to refer specifically to you.
One thing you did get right. Your rear end is not holy.
You can call it "lack of knowledge" if you like.
What it actually is is contempt.

Actually it has been established, which apparently bugs the heck out of you and makes you continue to be derisive.
If you don't agree with God's word, then how can you agree with God?

What, your opinion has been established? Oh, please.
You are the one that is not agreeing with God's Word.

How do you know I'm NOT? Assuming that, just because I advocate a loving and non-confrontational attitude to gays, as opposed to your spewing vitriol towards them, and distinguish between the sin and the sinner, makes you resort to questioning my salvation? Your true SELF is really starting to show up here Barrd, and it ain't pretty!

Who says I am "spewing vitriol" towards anyone?
Just because I have the guts to call a sin a sin, even if it is not "politically correct" to do so, doesn't mean that I am not able to distinguish between the sin and the sinner. And when did I question your salvation?
I've already seen your true SELF....and you definitely don't need to be throwing any stones at anyone else.
I think I've already told you about how important your opinion of me is. I haven't changed my mind.

I don't know how you can say He is real to you when you continually mock me and what Jesus says in His written word, then prevaricate about totally unrelated issues?

If it weren't so tragic, this would actually be funny.
First you want to complain about me mocking you....
And then you come out and call me a liar.

You know, I'm kinda glad you and I clashed over this, Stan. I have definitely learned something here.
A hard lesson, maybe...but one I definitely needed.
I've been called "naive"....and I suppose I am. I tend to give my trust too easily. However, once that trust has been betrayed, it is over.

 

[Barrd]

Another example of how you dishonestly prevaricate about what I do post. Do you not see that people will think you are being totally dishonest by doing this? I won't answer questions that are fabricated out of
lies.

In your post #414, you said:

Nobody is governed by God, and His laws, IF they have not asked Jesus to be their saviour. That is salvation 101.

And again, you accuse me of lying.
Can't you even keep track of your own posts?

I'm sorry, Stan, but this is the last post you will get from me. I hate it, but I am putting you on my ignore list...just as you once advised me to do with River.
As I told you, I have more respect for River than I have for you. At least she is consistent.
Which is a great deal more than I can say for you.

Bye bye....