Anti-reformers month

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theefaith

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Oh i am sure you do pray it and that you do pray , the problem is WHO YOU ARE PRAYING TOO .
Start praying ONLY TO GOD , in the glorious and wonderous name OF JESUS CHRIST .
AND since we are on the this topic .
YOu can no more pray a soul out of damantion
than you could pray a soul into hell fire .
ONCE THEY are gone , ITS TOO LATE . THEY will face
whatever judgement they reaped upon themselves on the day of the LORD
SO here is an idea , though pope francis wont agree ,
GET THE GOSPEL OUT TO THE LIVING . PRAY for the LIVING .
PRAY for the living while there is still time to do so
AND GET OUT AND PROLEYSTIZE the gospel .
OH wait , POPE francis said christains like me are dangerous
and are not even real christains
cause we prolesitze the gospel . HE IS THE FALSE ONE
JESUS TOLD US TO WITNESS THE GOSPLE TO ALL . FRANCIS
and his cronies say othewise . YEAH HEED NOT A WORD THEY SAY .
PS , they aint alone , many a sold out protestant church
like emergents and so forth are saying the same line .
THEY ALL SOLD OUT . AND I aint buying their lies .

this prayer is addressed to the eternal father?

not praying out of damnation

all those in purgatory are Christians on there way to heaven truly saved but being purified

Indulgences

1st of all these are based on misunderstandings and accusations

Salvation has nothing to do with indulgences nor the forgiveness of sin!

Salvation is God’s mercy to us thru His church by grace!

An indulgence is a merit of Jesus Christ thru his blood passion and death! Jn 1:16 & 1:29

Cannot sell indulgences
There were indulgences granted to those who supported the building of saint peters, not selling, (donations) but if you chose to make a donation you could get an indulgence, but there were and are many other ways to get them without making a donation! Not a requirement

You did something and got a favorable response, like buying a dozen dognuts and get one free, they may accuse you cannot selling 13 but you actually only sold 12 and gave one free.

Salvation is of grace with mercy and the forgiveness of sins, but the temporal punishment due to sin Christ did not take away, just like he did not take away our sin nature and restore up to the state of innocence in the garden.

Example: a child breaks a window with his baseball, his father forgives him totally, but the child work and earn money to pay for the window, and we must pray, fast, alms, penance, carry our cross and practice Christian virtues to expiate the temporal punishment due to our sins, God provides for everything in His goodness and gives us ample means to do this, and it purifies our souls in this life or if not he also provides a means of purification in the next.

And we can pray for and do penance and gain indulgences for those being purified since they are in the communion of saints like us and those already perfected in heaven!
 

amigo de christo

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this prayer is addressed to the eternal father?

not praying out of damnation

all those in purgatory are Christians on there way to heaven truly saved but being purified

Indulgences

1st of all these are based on misunderstandings and accusations

Salvation has nothing to do with indulgences nor the forgiveness of sin!

Salvation is God’s mercy to us thru His church by grace!

An indulgence is a merit of Jesus Christ thru his blood passion and death! Jn 1:16 & 1:29

Cannot sell indulgences
There were indulgences granted to those who supported the building of saint peters, not selling, (donations) but if you chose to make a donation you could get an indulgence, but there were and are many other ways to get them without making a donation! Not a requirement

You did something and got a favorable response, like buying a dozen dognuts and get one free, they may accuse you cannot selling 13 but you actually only sold 12 and gave one free.

Salvation is of grace with mercy and the forgiveness of sins, but the temporal punishment due to sin Christ did not take away, just like he did not take away our sin nature and restore up to the state of innocence in the garden.

Example: a child breaks a window with his baseball, his father forgives him totally, but the child work and earn money to pay for the window, and we must pray, fast, alms, penance, carry our cross and practice Christian virtues to expiate the temporal punishment due to our sins, God provides for everything in His goodness and gives us ample means to do this, and it purifies our souls in this life or if not he also provides a means of purification in the next.

And we can pray for and do penance and gain indulgences for those being purified since they are in the communion of saints like us and those already perfected in heaven!
same line all catholics have tried to use on me . I AINT BUYING IT . You would do well to flee that system and
stop letting them explain away their hyprocrisies . AINT Buying it . I will never join that church .
 
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theefaith

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Purgatory


Psalm 66:12 (RSV) Thou didst let men ride over our heads; we went through fire and through water; yet thou hast brought us forth to a spacious place.

This verse was considered a proof of purgatory by Origen and St. Ambrose, who posits the water of baptism and the fire of purgatory.

Isaiah 4:4 When the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion and cleansed the bloodstains of Jerusalem from its midst by a spirit of judgment and by a spirit of burning. (cf. 1:25-26; 6:5-7; Ecc 12:14)

St. Augustine, in the 20th Book of his City of God, chapter 25, interprets this as purgatory. The preceding verse refers to the saved (“called holy” and “recorded for life”) and verses 5 and 6 describe the repose of the blessed.

Micah 7:9 I will bear the indignation of the Lord because I have sinned against him, until he pleads my cause and executes judgment for me. He will bring me forth to the light; I shall behold his deliverance. (cf. Lev 26:41, 43; Job 40:4-5; Lam 3:39)

St. Jerome considered this verse a clear proof of purgatory.

Malachi 3:3 he will sit as a refiner and purifier of silver, and he will purify the sons of Levi and refine them like gold and silver, till they present right offerings to the LORD.

Origen, St. Irenaeus, St. Ambrose, St. Augustine, and St. Jerome all thought this was a description of purgatory.

2 Maccabees 12:44-45 For if he were not expecting that those who had fallen would rise again, it would have been superfluous and foolish to pray for the dead. [45] But if he was looking to the splendid reward that is laid up for those who fall asleep in godliness, it was a holy and pious thought. Therefore he made atonement for the dead, that they might be delivered from their sin. (cf. 1 Cor 15:29)

The Jews offered atonement and prayer for their deceased brethren, who had clearly violated Mosaic Law. Such a practice presupposes purgatory, since those in heaven wouldn’t need any help, and those in hell are beyond it.

Matthew 5:22 But I say to you that every one who is angry with his brother shall be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother shall be liable to the council, and whoever says, “You fool!” shall be liable to the hell of fire.

St. Francis de Sales commented:

It is only the third sort of offence which is punished with hell; therefore in the judgment of God after this life there are other pains which are not eternal or infernal, — these are the pains of Purgatory. (The Catholic Controversy translated by Henry B. Mackey, Rockford, Illinois: TAN Books, 1989 [orig. 1596], 373)

Matthew 5:26 truly, I say to you, you will never get out till you have paid the last penny.

The “prison” alluded to in verse 25 is purgatory, according to Tertullian, St. Cyprian, Origen, St. Ambrose, and St. Jerome, while the “penny” represents the most minor sins that one commits.

Matthew 12:32 And whoever says a word against the Son of man will be forgiven; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

If this sin cannot be forgiven after death, it follows that there are others which can be, and this must be in purgatory: precisely the interpretation of St. Augustine, Pope St. Gregory the Great, the Venerable Bede, and St. Bernard, among others.

1 Corinthians 3:11-15 For no other foundation can any one lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. [12] Now if any one builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw – [13] each man's work will become manifest; for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. [14] If the work which any man has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. [15] If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.


This is a clear and obvious allusion to purgatory. Thus thought St. Cyprian, St. Ambrose, St. Jerome, Pope St. Gregory the Great, Origen, and St. Augustine, who wrote with his usual insight:

ecause it is said, he shall be saved, that fire is thought lightly of. For all that, though we should be saved by fire, yet will that fire be more grievous than anything that man can suffer in this life whatsoever. (Expositions on the Psalms, 38, 2)

Hebrews 12:14 Strive for peace with all men, and for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord. (cf. 12:1, 5-11, 15, 23, Eph 5:5; 1 Thess 4:3; 1 Jn 3:2-3)

Blessed John Henry Cardinal Newman observed (as an Anglican):

Even supposing a man of unholy life were suffered to enter heaven, he would not be happy there; so that it would be no mercy to permit him to enter . . . There is a moral malady which disorders the inward sight and taste; and no man labouring under it is in a condition to enjoy what Scripture calls the fulness of joy in God’s presence, . . . (Sermon on this verse: “Holiness Necessary for Future Blessedness,” 1834)

Revelation 21:27 But nothing unclean shall enter it, nor any one who practises abomination or falsehood, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s book of life.

The abundance of scriptural evidence for purgatory led to a consensus among the Church fathers: summarized by Protestant church historian Philip Schaff:
 

theefaith

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It dont matter what the pope or the sold out protestant leaders say , WE HEED JESUS . TO THE END . FINAL . TRUTH FOREVER .
They once called luther the wild boar , not that i follow luther , i say that cause i imagine they gonna have plenty a name for me .
I aint conforming to this pile of junk lies they speak . And its gonna cost me greatly . OH BUT THE PRIZE AT THE END AWAITS THE LAMBS .
TIS all gain no matter what i lose in this life . THE GAIN OF KNOWING JESUS , the HOPE OF HIS SALVATION .
Now let all that draws breath praise the LORD an stop trusting in men and start learning those bibles .

lk 10:16
 

amigo de christo

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Satan brings scriptures too , only to cause folks to disobey GOD . that scripture DONT POINT TO THE CATHOLIC CHURCH .
YOU just try and say that it does , just like you do with other scrips . You are wresting the scrips unto your own destruction .
YOU USE SCRIPTURE not to point to CHRIST but to point to YOUR SYSTEM . I am very fearful for you my friend .
You are much like alexander the coppersmith , YOU KEEP resisting the words of truth in order to support your own system .
 
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theefaith

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same line all catholics have tried to use on me . I AINT BUYING IT . You would do well to flee that system and
stop letting them explain away their hyprocrisies . AINT Buying it . I will never join that church .
You say read those bibles!
So explain those verses please?
 

theefaith

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Satan brings scriptures too , only to cause folks to disobey GOD . that scripture DONT POINT TO THE CATHOLIC CHURCH .
YOU just try and say that it does , just like you do with other scrips . You are wresting the scrips unto your own destruction .
YOU USE SCRIPTURE not to point to CHRIST but to point to YOUR SYSTEM . I am very fearful for you my friend .
You are much like alexander the coppersmith , YOU KEEP resisting the words of truth in order to support your own system .

obedience to the church is obedience to Christ

Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4
Eph 5:32 Jn 15:1-5

Saul was persecuting the church, and Christ said “why persecute me”? Acts 9:4

Christ and his church are one! Acts 9:4 eph 5:32

Jn 15:1-5 Christ united to his apostles (the church) bearing fruit! (The salvation of souls)

The church and the apostles exist by his commands and authority! Matt 16:18-19 & 18:18 Jn 20:21-23

There is an unbreakable union between Christ and His Holy Church!

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Lk 10:16 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20

Eph 5:32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

Gates of hell shall NOT PREVAIL!

There is only one true church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles and their successors, it is the new covenant body of Christ! Matt 16:18 One fold
Jn 10:16 the household of faith! Gal 6:10

1 Timothy 3:15
But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

Christ and His church are one, what Christ did the church continues to do, the church is an extension of Christ!
To attack the church is to attack Christ!
Acts 9:4 Jn 20:21-23

Eph 5: 23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.

29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:

30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.

32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
 

Cassandra

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Prayer is not worship

worship
Adoration
reparation
Propitiatory sacrifice

prayer reverence devotion are not worship!!!

and a fundamentalist believer is NOT a Christian!

Spiritual Anarchy!

Christ and His church are one!
God cannot reveal error and the church cannot teach error!

True Christians cannot listen to the errors of excommunicated heretics like luther, calvin, etc. but we listen faithfully to Christ, in the bosom of holy mother church, the only ark of salvation!
1 pet 3:20-21 matt 18:17 matt 16:18-19 matt 28:19-20 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-23

True Christians do not act from
Pride, presumption, and arrogance!

Private judgement!

Personal interpretation!

I decide truth for myself!

These are NOT Christian virtues!

This is NOT faith!

1 Corinthians 16:22
If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha.

This extends to the truth and to the church founded by Christ to teach all
men!

Cos Jesus Christ is the truth and cos His church is of divine origin, commissioned to teach the truth!

Christians must be taught and that requires humility! Lk 1:4 matt 28:19-20 matt 16:18-19 & 18:18 acts 2:42 acts 8:31


Virtues are not natural, but supernatural helps from God!

The virtues are exercised to the highest degree in Mary most holy and to perfection in Jesus Christ!

The doctrine of demons are filled with the vices of the demons!

Humility and obedience are the virtues most forgotten and ignored, many who claim the name of Christ are not practicing His virtues

The evidence of true faith is humble subjection and obedience to Christ & His holy church!

The rule of faith for Christians is Jesus Christ Jn 14:6 and His church! Matt 18:17 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15

Truth is revealed by God thru Christ to His church (the apostles) Jude 1:3 then proposed by the church! Matt 28:19

Christ and His church are one!

Rejection of the one true church or its teaching is rejection of Christ and God!

Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4 eph 5:32 Jn 8:12 & Matt 5:14

Dan 2:44 Isa 2:2 Micah 4:1 fulfilled in matt 5:14

matt 16:18-19 shall not prevail
Matt 18:17 hear the truth from the church
1 Tim 3:15 the church is the pillar and ground of truth.

Faith ascents & never protests or rebels!
Spiritual Pride protests & is always in rebellion

The nature of spiritual pride is rebellion!
Spiritual pride must protest, and must be right!

Christ and His one true church cannot be right or my self-righteous personal interpretation base on spiritual pride and private judgement must be wrong, and that is unacceptable!

Truth must be revealed by God, and taught by the church, proposed for our belief, we must be instructed!
Matt 28:19 Lk 1:4 Acts 8:31 Lk 10:16 Jn 21:17 Jn 16:13 acts 2:42


Nature of doctrine:

Truth or doctrine MUST be Revealed by God And Proposed by the church for belief, not spiritual pride and self-righteous private judgement!
Claim: “scripture alone”
It’s really just the ugly repugnant pride!
It’s no faith at all only spiritual pride and self-righteous private judgement!
They Hope in creatures not in God!

It is unlawful to refuse to accept a truth revealed by God!

Matt 28:19 eph 4:5 Jude 1:3

Truth matters! It is revealed by God and therefore CANNOT be changed!
The church likewise is founded by Christ and therefore CANNOT be reformed!

Faith hope and charity! 1 cor 13:13
Three are eternal, and the greatest is charity!
“Faith alone”? Never faith, hope, & charity are inseparable!
If salvation was by faith alone then the greatest would be faith, but as even “all faith“ without charity avails nothing! 1 cor 13:2

You got the right ta ta but the wrong ho ho.

Protestants follow the Bible. You guys have some other stuff going on.
 

theefaith

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You got the right ta ta but the wrong ho ho.

Protestants follow the Bible. You guys have some other stuff going on.

the Bible why?
The Bible alone?

where is it in the Bible that all the truths revealed by God are in the Bible?

what is the source of truth for Christians?
What is the rule of faith?
what is the pillar and ground of truth?
 

reformed1689

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Christians don’t have authority to read the Bible and make doctrine for yourself

True Christians do not act from
Pride, presumption, and arrogance!

Private judgement!

Personal interpretation!

I decide truth for myself!
And of course that is a strawman argument, not what I have said. The Bible is the guide, not the church.
 

theefaith

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And of course that is a strawman argument, not what I have said. The Bible is the guide, not the church.

show me in the Bible where it says so?

matt 28:19-20
Matt 18:17
Lk 10:16
Jn 16:13
Jn 20:21-23
Acts 8
1 Tim 3:15

Humility and obedience are the virtues most forgotten and ignored, many who claim the name of Christ are not practicing His virtues

The evidence of true faith is humble subjection and obedience to Christ & His holy church!

The rule of faith for Christians is Jesus Christ Jn 14:6 and His church! Matt 18:17 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15

Truth is revealed by God thru Christ to His church (the apostles) Jude 1:3 then proposed by the church! Matt 28:19

Christ and His church are one!

Rejection of the one true church or its teaching is rejection of Christ and God!

Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4 eph 5:32 Jn 8:12 & Matt 5:14
 

theefaith

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The Bible says they are dead. The Bible says don't pray to the dead. I'm sure you could find the references ready enough... There are many.
Oh really better try again!

John 11:25
Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

James 5:16 avails much
Rev 5:8 prayers of the saints
 

reformed1689

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show me in the Bible where it says so?

matt 28:19-20
Matt 18:17
Lk 10:16
Jn 16:13
Jn 20:21-23
Acts 8
1 Tim 3:15

Humility and obedience are the virtues most forgotten and ignored, many who claim the name of Christ are not practicing His virtues

The evidence of true faith is humble subjection and obedience to Christ & His holy church!

The rule of faith for Christians is Jesus Christ Jn 14:6 and His church! Matt 18:17 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15

Truth is revealed by God thru Christ to His church (the apostles) Jude 1:3 then proposed by the church! Matt 28:19

Christ and His church are one!

Rejection of the one true church or its teaching is rejection of Christ and God!

Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4 eph 5:32 Jn 8:12 & Matt 5:14
Show me where it says the church? Oh wait, it doesn't.