Anti-reformers month

[Lifelong_sinner]

Hello Lifelong,

I also own a bible. Am i therefore qualified to judge heresy?

Pax et Bonum!

absolutely. Go for it. May the better doctrine win!

 

[Philip James]

absolutely. Go for it. May the better doctrine win!

Hi lifelong,

But its not a competition!

Why should my judgement supercede that of my brothers and sisters for 2000 years?

If you and I disagree, who arbitrates?

How do we settle our dispute and preserve the unity of the body?

I, then, a prisoner for the Lord, urge you to live in a manner worthy of the call you have received,

with all humility and gentleness, with patience, bearing with one another through love,

striving to preserve the unity of the spirit through the bond of peace:

one body and one Spirit, as you were also called to the one hope of your call;

one Lord, one faith, one baptism;

one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

Pax et Bonum!

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

Hi lifelong,

But its not a competition!

Why should my judgement supercede that of my brothers and sisters for 2000 years?

If you and I disagree, who arbitrates?

How do we settle our dispute and preserve the unity of the body?

I, then, a prisoner for the Lord, urge you to live in a manner worthy of the call you have received,

with all humility and gentleness, with patience, bearing with one another through love,

striving to preserve the unity of the spirit through the bond of peace:

one body and one Spirit, as you were also called to the one hope of your call;

one Lord, one faith, one baptism;

one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

Pax et Bonum!

its not a competition, you’re right. But when we have disagreements over doctrine, i think to the book of Acts, When peter, paul, and barnabas get together to debate the issue of circumcision with the pharisees, often called the Jerusalem Conference. They debated that issue, plus other doctrines, And we should do the same. I think debate can be a good thing. I dont look at you as an enemy, i think it is simply human nature to disagree, and i definitely am not looking to say “told you so.”

 

[Philip James]

When peter, paul, and barnabas get together to debate the issue of circumcision with the pharisees, often called the Jerusalem Conference. They debated that issue, plus other doctrines

And were the decisions of that council binding on all the faithful?

Pax et Bonum!

 

[reformed1689]

Hello reformed,

I'm curious..

What qualifies you to judge what is heresy?

Pax et Bonum!

Scripture

 

[reformed1689]

that’s the accusation! No proof of course

Matt 16:18-19 gates shall not prevail!

Rome is a false church

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

And were the decisions of that council binding on all the faithful?

Pax et Bonum!

of course. The apostles decided and it was put into scripture that circumcision is not needed any longer.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Those are the successors of the apostles you are making fun of, rejecting them is rejection of Christ

Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4
Eph 5:32

Saul was persecuting the church, and Christ said “why persecute me”? Acts 9:4

Rebellion and rejection of the church or apostles or council or teaching of church or apostles or council is rebellion and rejection of Christ!

Christ and his church are one! Acts 9:4 eph 5:32

The church and the apostles exist by his commands and authority! Matt 16:18-19 & 18:18 Jn 20:21-23

An attack on the church is an attack on Christ!

There is an unbreakable union between Christ and His Holy Church!

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Lk 10:16 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20

Eph 5:32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

Gates of hell shall NOT PREVAIL!

There is only one true church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles and their successors, it is the new covenant body of Christ! Matt 16:18 One fold
Jn 10:16 the household of faith! Gal 6:10

1 Timothy 3:15
But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

Christ and His church are one, what Christ did the church continues to do, the church is an extension of Christ!
To attack the church is to attack Christ!
Acts 9:4 Jn 20:21-23


Eph 5: 23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.

29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:

30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.

32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

What authority does Christ have?
What power does Christ have?
What mission / ministry does Christ have?

Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission! Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!

Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, so send in you. (The apostles) posses the same power mission and authority as Christ!
Peter, the apostles and their successors!

Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18
matt 28:19 Jn 20:21-23 Isa 22:21-22
eph 2:20

Ephesians 5:24
Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ...

The church is the ark of salvation, to attack the church is to attack salvation!

God always establishes peace & order in the obedience to hierarchical authority!

Obedience:

Matt 18:17 hear the church

Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

Heb 13:7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.

Heb 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they care for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

Matt 28:19 teaching them to obey all I have commanded

So tell me who is it that are going to obey and submit?

Obeying the apostles and the churchis obeying Christ!

Rejecting the apostles and the church is rejecting Christ!

Sorry , but Jesus said, “ Follow Paul”.... I’ll go with that ....

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Whoever desires to be saved must above all hold to the catholic faith.


Some people get Saved DESPITE false , perverted Catholic Doctrine......*ALL* that adhere to Catholic Doctrine are “ Fallen From Grace” because they disobey the Warnings found in Galatians —- they add to “ Nothing But The Blood” with the Seven Sacraments , etc......I am not engaging in “ catholic bashing”—— many , if not most Protestant Churches are just as bad....

 

[Truman]

As long as they don't try and push their views on me, I get along with most everybody.
Catholics, Protestants, Jews...Muslims, Hindus, gays, addicts, bikers, mobsters...

 

[BloodBought 1953]

As long as they don't try and push their views on me, I get along with most everybody.
Catholics, Protestants, Jews...Muslims, Hindus, gays, addicts, bikers, mobsters...

It’s one of the few things I have in common with Jesus —— I am a Friend to Sinners.....sounds like you are too...

Another thing I have in common with Jesus....Religious people hate me....They also hate the True Gospel.....

 

[Truman]

It’s one of the few things I have in common with Jesus —— I am a Friend to Sinners.....sounds like you are too...

Another thing I have in common with Jesus....Religious people hate me....They also hate the True Gospel.....

They don't like me much either...especially since I learned that I'm a Jew! Lol

 

[Philip James]

of course. The apostles decided and it was put into scripture that circumcision is not needed any longer.

And what of later disagreements and councils do you accept their decisions too?

Pax et Bonum!

 

[Philip James]

Scripture

Interesting. How exactly does that work? What scripture and how does it qualify you?

Pax!

 

[Philip James]

- they add to “ Nothing But The Blood” with the Seven Sacraments

Hello BB,

The seven sacraments are found in all the ancient apostolic churches.
Indeed i would challenge you to find any 2000 year old Christian community that does not celebrate the sacraments..

Pax et Bonum!

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

Interesting. How exactly does that work? What scripture and how does it qualify you?

Pax!

wow, i dont know who argues more, catholics or OPC?? At least OPC gets it right.

 

[Philip James]

wow, i dont know who argues more, catholics or OPC?? At least OPC gets it right.

Ill take that non response as an admission that you are not qualified by anything but your own hubris to judge what is and is not heresy.

Thank you for the discussion.

Pax et Bonum!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

The seven sacraments are found in all the ancient apostolic churches.
Indeed i would challenge you to find any 2000 year old Christian community that does not celebrate the sacraments..

It's the reason that any sacrament or tradition is practiced that divides the false from the true.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

And what of later disagreements and councils do you accept their decisions too?

Pax et Bonum!

The farther we get from the resurrection the less reliable are the councils of man.
We're to the point now that it's each individual believer himself and the scriptures.

 

[Philip James]

It's the reason that any sacrament or tradition is practiced that divides the false from the true.

Hi Ferris,

On that i think we agree.

as they make a pretense of religion but deny its power. Reject them.

Pax et Bonum!