Anti-reformers month

[GodsGrace]

Christ is king and all must submit to and obey Him and His church His authorized representatives
The church proposes the truths revealed by God with the authority of Christ
Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4 eph 4:5 Jn 15:1-5

What authority does Christ have?
What power does Christ have?
What mission / ministry does Christ have?

Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission! Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!

John 17:18
As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

The apostles are Christ’s successors!
They have authority to send others as well, apostle means one who is sent!

Therefore the apostles have authority to send more apostles or successors!
Apostolic succession!

The nations still need to be taught, disciples still need to be baptized and the church the new covenant kingdom of christ still needs to be governed!

Hebrews 3:1
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

Christ is an apostle, and has authority to send other apostles, the apostles also have this authority, so the apostles continue down thru the centuries as Christ promised! Matt 28:19-20

Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Isa 22:21-22

Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.

Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments

The apostles teaching is Christ’s teaching, Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4

the state has divine authority to execute justice

Theefaith
I do believe you're ignoring history, and I don't mean the crusades.

 

[GodsGrace]

no I did not and you know it

I said the divine authority is to the church and the state

If the divine authority is to the church, then it was mishandled for centuries, given that it was by humans, but also with the knowledge of the popes.

 

[Ezra]

10 pages of nlah blah blah, all because us protestants stopped your rule of heresy. Your anger towards us is symbolic of centuries of sending people to hell by the RCC selling people their indulgence confessions.

i agree blah blah reminds me of black clouds and thunder in the summer the thunder but no results

 

[Ezra]

If the divine authority is to the church, then it was mishandled for centuries, given that it was by humans, but also with the knowledge of the popes.

one thing i have noticed is man wants to control the Church

 

[Brakelite]

Christ is king and all must submit to and obey Him and His church His authorized representatives
The church proposes the truths revealed by God with the authority of Christ
Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4 eph 4:5 Jn 15:1-5

What authority does Christ have?
What power does Christ have?
What mission / ministry does Christ have?

Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission! Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!

John 17:18
As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

The apostles are Christ’s successors!
They have authority to send others as well, apostle means one who is sent!

Therefore the apostles have authority to send more apostles or successors!
Apostolic succession!

The nations still need to be taught, disciples still need to be baptized and the church the new covenant kingdom of christ still needs to be governed!

Hebrews 3:1
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

Christ is an apostle, and has authority to send other apostles, the apostles also have this authority, so the apostles continue down thru the centuries as Christ promised! Matt 28:19-20

Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Isa 22:21-22

Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.

Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments

The apostles teaching is Christ’s teaching, Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4

the state has divine authority to execute justice

You are repeating yourself and the historical fact that your church throughout is life since the 4th century, and particularly with the Frank king Clovis who was honored as the "favorite son of the Catholic Church" or words to that effect, and used him and countless others to wield the sword on behalf of the popes to destroy all who would dare refuse to submit to papal authority, screams loud and clear of your church's unfaithfulness to Christ. Your church trusted in Kings and the armies of Europe to defend the gospel... In other words Christ was never enough. The Catholic Church played the harlot. And millions died as a direct result.

 

[Enoch111]

That tells me you are senseless to anyone else's thoughts or any facts that would disagree with your theories.

What we have here is a propagandist for the Catholic Church. The only thing that matters to him is propaganda (notwithstanding all the Scripture quotations which have been completely misapplied). Now if Peter were to be sent to earth to put things right, the first thing he would do is demolish the Vatican. He was very outspoken regarding false prophets and false teachers.

 

[Taken]

-theefaith
How do you know IF the man-built church you attend and the man-appointed priests that preach to you and the man-prepared doctrine materials you study...ARE the Word of God?

 

[tabletalk]

you must be confusing the church with the Vatican or Vatican 2 counterfeit church

the churches anathemas are absolute and apply to all forever

Christ is king!

all must submit and obey Christ and his church!

This is by Jimmy Akin (April,2000 Catholic Answers):

"The word anathema is one of the most misunderstood terms in anti-Catholic apologetics.

"The more common anathema has the sense of a curse and is applied in the New Testament to a curse by which individuals bind themselves (Acts 23:14), to individuals who reject the true gospel (Gal. 1:8–9), who do not love Christ (1 Cor. 16:22), or who are otherwise separated from Christ (Rom. 9:6). It is applied by b.asphemous false prophets to Jesus himself (1 Cor. 12:3)."

"Originally, the Church did not differentiate between excommunication and anathema,.."

"Over time, a distinction came to be made between excommunication and anathema. The precise nature of the distinction varied but eventually became fixed. By the time of Gregory IX (1370–1378), the term anathema was used to describe a major excommunication that was performed with a solemn pontifical ceremony."

"Yet the penalty was used so seldom that it was removed from the 1983 Code of Canon Law. This means that today the penalty of anathema does not exist in Church law. The new Code provided that, “When this Code goes into effect, the following are abrogated: 1º the Code of Canon Law promulgated in 1917 . . . 3º any universal or particular penal laws whatsoever issued by the Apostolic See, unless they are contained in this Code” (CIC [1983] 6 §1). The penalty of anathema was not renewed in the new Code, and thus it was abrogated when the Code went into effect on January 1, 1983."

So, The Catholic Church changed the meaning of Anathema, then removed the penalty of Anathema from its Law.

 

[Brakelite]

Wow! Vengeance is theefaith's says the Lord?!

Sometimes I read your posts and think you must be an alien.

No. I read his posts and see an honest Catholic. But not a Christian.

 

[Brakelite]

Christ is king and all must submit to and obey Him and His church His authorized representatives
The church proposes the truths revealed by God with the authority of Christ
Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4 eph 4:5 Jn 15:1-5

What authority does Christ have?
What power does Christ have?
What mission / ministry does Christ have?

Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission! Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!

John 17:18
As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

The apostles are Christ’s successors!
They have authority to send others as well, apostle means one who is sent!

Therefore the apostles have authority to send more apostles or successors!
Apostolic succession!

The nations still need to be taught, disciples still need to be baptized and the church the new covenant kingdom of christ still needs to be governed!

Hebrews 3:1
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

Christ is an apostle, and has authority to send other apostles, the apostles also have this authority, so the apostles continue down thru the centuries as Christ promised! Matt 28:19-20

Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Isa 22:21-22

Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.

Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments

The apostles teaching is Christ’s teaching, Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4

the state has divine authority to execute justice

So when did Christ's teachings of love your enemies and pray for those that hate you and persecute you, change to destroy your enemies and torture them if they don't confess to Christ and submit to papal authority?

 

[theefaith]

If the divine authority is to the church, then it was mishandled for centuries, given that it was by humans, but also with the knowledge of the popes.

Not infallible in matters of discipline no

 

[theefaith]

You are repeating yourself and the historical fact that your church throughout is life since the 4th century, and particularly with the Frank king Clovis who was honored as the "favorite son of the Catholic Church" or words to that effect, and used him and countless others to wield the sword on behalf of the popes to destroy all who would dare refuse to submit to papal authority, screams loud and clear of your church's unfaithfulness to Christ. Your church trusted in Kings and the armies of Europe to defend the gospel... In other words Christ was never enough. The Catholic Church played the harlot. And millions died as a direct result.

is there some law against repeating yourself? Maybe it’s cos you’re so hard headed with spiritual pride that I have to keep pounding until we all come to the obedience of faith

you sad the church was not founded until the 11c now it’s the 6th with Clovis, I don’t know why we say France is the first daughter of the church when Ireland was converted two hundred years earlier

but you don’t get that Christ is king and his kingdom rules the whole world and all must submit to Him???

Christ the king!

The king of kings!

Christ is King of Glory!

Kingdom established by God!
Isa 2:2
Dan 2: 44
Micah 4:1

One, holy, catholic, (universal) and apostolic! And all nations and all people shall flow into it! All must submit and obey the king of glory!

Matthew 5:14
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

Christ is the king!

Lk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

Lk 2:10-11 all people!

Matthew 6:33
But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

Matt 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Matt 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, (old covenant Israel) and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. (The new covenant church) Jn 15:1-5

Jesus Christ is king!

We must submit and obey the king of kings!

And In the absence of the king we must submit and obey the kings ministers!

Isa 22:21-22
Matt 16:18
Matt 18:18
Matt 28:18
Jn 20:21-23

Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

Biblical Example Joseph under pharaoh administers the kingdom and his brothers obeyed and submitted to him.

Christ is king and a king must rule the hearts and minds of his subjects!

All are subject to christ! Matt 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power (authority) is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

1 cor 4:1 Let a man so account of us, as of the ministers of Christ, and stewards of the mysteries of God.

The proof of true faith is humble subjection and obedience to Christ and His church!

Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4 eph 5:32

Christ the king and His kingdom are one!

 

[theefaith]

You are repeating yourself and the historical fact that your church throughout is life since the 4th century, and particularly with the Frank king Clovis who was honored as the "favorite son of the Catholic Church" or words to that effect, and used him and countless others to wield the sword on behalf of the popes to destroy all who would dare refuse to submit to papal authority, screams loud and clear of your church's unfaithfulness to Christ. Your church trusted in Kings and the armies of Europe to defend the gospel... In other words Christ was never enough. The Catholic Church played the harlot. And millions died as a direct result.

heresy is treason to God who revealed the truth!

 

[theefaith]

This is by Jimmy Akin (April,2000 Catholic Answers):

"The word anathema is one of the most misunderstood terms in anti-Catholic apologetics.

"The more common anathema has the sense of a curse and is applied in the New Testament to a curse by which individuals bind themselves (Acts 23:14), to individuals who reject the true gospel (Gal. 1:8–9), who do not love Christ (1 Cor. 16:22), or who are otherwise separated from Christ (Rom. 9:6). It is applied by b.asphemous false prophets to Jesus himself (1 Cor. 12:3)."

"Originally, the Church did not differentiate between excommunication and anathema,.."

"Over time, a distinction came to be made between excommunication and anathema. The precise nature of the distinction varied but eventually became fixed. By the time of Gregory IX (1370–1378), the term anathema was used to describe a major excommunication that was performed with a solemn pontifical ceremony."

"Yet the penalty was used so seldom that it was removed from the 1983 Code of Canon Law. This means that today the penalty of anathema does not exist in Church law. The new Code provided that, “When this Code goes into effect, the following are abrogated: 1º the Code of Canon Law promulgated in 1917 . . . 3º any universal or particular penal laws whatsoever issued by the Apostolic See, unless they are contained in this Code” (CIC [1983] 6 §1). The penalty of anathema was not renewed in the new Code, and thus it was abrogated when the Code went into effect on January 1, 1983."

So, The Catholic Church changed the meaning of Anathema, then removed the penalty of Anathema from its Law.

jimmy akin you’re breakin my heart, truth is revealed by God not jimmy akin or jimmy swaggart or anyone else

the true church founded by Christ has done no such thing, the counterfeit modernist cowardly apostates maybe but not Christ and his one true church

hope you’re not confused by all this, everything the modernists have done since 1958 and the death of Pius the 12th is in question and we are possibly suffering the great apostasy

 

[theefaith]

1 Corinthians 16:22
If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha.

 

[theefaith]

1 Corinthians 16:22
If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha.

and this extends to the truth and the church!

 

[theefaith]

So when did Christ's teachings of love your enemies and pray for those that hate you and persecute you, change to destroy your enemies and torture them if they don't confess to Christ and submit to papal authority?

it is Christ’s authority Christ’s kingdom

still love them, teach and correct them but if they refuse there must be consequences so that the truth and God and God’s rights be defended

 

[Brakelite]

you sad the church was not founded until the 11c now it’s the 6th with Clovis, I don’t know why we say France is the first daughter of the church when Ireland was converted two hundred years earlier

Now this is fascinating, and starkly reveals your frame of mind.
First, I have never suggested the Catholic Church began in the 11th century. The Catholic Church began as a true church in Rome, but it's leaders, when put under pressure from pagan persecution, compromised first by abandoning the Sabbath in favor of the Roman day of the sun, Sunday, and at the same time when Constantine shifted his power base from Rome to Istanbul, this left a vacuum wherein there was needed a civil authority to fill. Sadly, the bishops of time took this upon themselves, and began to enjoy the baubles of office and things went downhill from there on.
The next point need some clarification. Yes, Ireland was converted around the 4th century. But she wasn't the first. There were Gallic communities from Ireland to Asia minor from the 3rd century before Christ. There was a trade route between Asia what Ireland, that led from Asia across northern Italy, southern France, and thence to Ireland and Scotland and Wales. Galatia was Gallic. When in the first century the gospel through Paul and others converted many pagans in that area, in the towns of Ephesus, Thessalonica, Thyatira etc, those converts then shared the good news as they traded and traveled, and they gospel itself reached the shores of Britain much earlier than you would imagine. Patrick's Father was already a Christian minister in his native Scotland, and presided over a church there. Patrick, after being covered himself as a slave, was merely carrying on the practise of preaching and teaching the goods news, and without any input, support, or miraculous nonsense fables about his flying to Rome and removing snakes. Patrick wasn't Catholic. It took several centuries before the church in Rome even acknowledged he ever existed, because the gospel he preached was so different, and the churches and schools he established, so significantly opposed to Rome's growing mix of pagan profane with the holy, and it wasn't until the Celtic church had grown so powerful across both islands that time finally had to admit to Patrick's ministry, and claiming him as their own by the embellishment of fantastic stories and miracles. All lies.
Oh, and there was also a vast difference between how Patrick established the church in Britain, with peaceful means through preaching and serving the communities, raising up ministers from the evangelical schools he established, to the methods used by Clovis on the continent a couple hundred years later. Rome didn't have a gospel to peach. They had coercion and force of arms to convince the people to submit the Pope's authority and rule.
Patrick led the people to Christ. They have up their pagan practises of witchcraft and superstitions, and embraced the cross of Calvary, becoming humble servants of Christ. You on this forum do not peach Christ. You preach submission to papal authority just as Augustine did so many centuries ago. And just as Augustine was rebuked by the Celtic church in Wales and sent packing, do also do I rebuke you. Peach Christ and Him crucified and I'll listen. But you Popes and your rituals and your long tedious prayers and traditions, and your Sunday, don't interest me.
What will you do now? Do as Augustine did and arrange a marriage with a pagan British king and a Catholic princess, who then raised an army against the church in Wales murdering over 3000 students at a school there? I have seen your statements previously espousing the killing of heretics and overpowering opposition by force of arms, even just the past above you continue this train of thought, which is typically Catholic. Will you do thus to those on this forum who reject you?
Any church that takes one small step in the direction of Rome, is taking a leap in the direction of apostasy.

 

[Cassandra]

I have seen your statements previously espousing the killing of heretics and overpowering opposition by force of arms, even just the past above you continue this train of thought, which is typically Catholic. Will you do thus to those on this forum who reject you?

I have wondered the same thing about theefaith. He does not listen to you, but condemns you. Kinda scary, huh? This is the type of thing I am expecting in the end time when folks won't bow down. And this is the rationale for it:

John 16:1-2 " These things have I spoken unto you, that ye should not be offended. [2] They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service."

 

[tabletalk]

jimmy akin you’re breakin my heart, truth is revealed by God not jimmy akin or jimmy swaggart or anyone else

the true church founded by Christ has done no such thing, the counterfeit modernist cowardly apostates maybe but not Christ and his one true church

hope you’re not confused by all this, everything the modernists have done since 1958 and the death of Pius the 12th is in question and we are possibly suffering the great apostasy

Hah. You sound like the Protestants that the Catholic Church complains about, having '45,000 denominations'.

Will the real Catholic Church please stand up?