Any non pre-trib teachers?

[Timtofly]

In a way your right, the church will not face this, the saints will, the church will witness these things from the wilderness.

Paradise is not a wilderness.

Paradise is where we will judge those on earth.

 

[David H.]

Paradise is not a wilderness.

Paradise is where we will judge those on earth.

Paradise comes after the wilderness. Saints are mentioned on earth until Revelation 14, They are called to endure. They face the persecution of the beast, they refuse the Mark of the beast. Who are the saints in your understanding? The rejects of the church? Or are they the Jewish converts? You need to answer these questions to make your eschatology work.

 

[Nancy]

Paradise comes after the wilderness. Saints are mentioned on earth until Revelation 14, They are called to endure. They face the persecution of the beast, they refuse the Mark of the beast. Who are the saints in your understanding? The rejects of the church? Or are they the Jewish converts? You need to answer these questions to make your eschatology work.

Indeed. Since there is no Jew, nor Greek but all one in Christ, why do we still separate? Will not ALL those who choose Christ when finally faced with the very same thing? Will we take the mark with the droves of people who gladly will? Or will we never compromise our faith, and lose our lives for Him. And, ultimately for us.
I was once told that one can not understand Rev. without the book of Daniel. Not sure but it does make sense with the 70 weeks and all. How to exegete this, I do not know, though I do try!

 

[Timtofly]

Paradise comes after the wilderness. Saints are mentioned on earth until Revelation 14, They are called to endure. They face the persecution of the beast, they refuse the Mark of the beast. Who are the saints in your understanding? The rejects of the church? Or are they the Jewish converts? You need to answer these questions to make your eschatology work.

None of this adds up. Many who have died must not have endured, as they should still be alive? Enduring to the end is not seeing who can live the longest. Enduring to the end of one's life still faithful to God, despite tribulation. Applying this to going through God's Wrath is nonsense.

Enduring to the end has been the goal of every generation the last 1990 years, not just the last one.

All the church is in Paradise and they will stay in Paradise, until after the millennium reign of Christ, and after the NHNE of Revelation 21-22. The church will judge over the earth after the 6th Seal. Not on the earth. The next time the church is on the earth is in the New Jerusalem, the new version of Paradise. The church is not just a few people. The church is all of Adam's descendants from Abel until now, who have been redeemed by the Atonement of the Cross.

The OT church was in Abraham's bosom. That changed at the Cross to Paradise. Nothing about going to Paradise will change at the Second Coming. The church still remains in Paradise until the New Jerusalem. No one will enter Paradise after the 6th Seal. No one will leave Paradise until the New Jerusalem. The only exceptions are the two literal male witnesses killed by Satan at the end of the 42 months. They are not enduring the 42 months. They are tormenting those on earth during the 42 months.

 

[Keraz]

None of this adds up. Many who have died must not have endured, as they should still be alive? Enduring to the end is not seeing who can live the longest. Enduring to the end of one's life still faithful to God, despite tribulation. Applying this to going through God's Wrath is nonsense.

No it isn't. The scenario you promote is nonsense.
As we never go to 'paradise', as you like to call it, the homily of Abraham and Lazarus is just that, we will be here during all that must happen until Jesus Returns. But all the faithful Christians will be kept safe during the final 3 1/2 years of the Great Tribulation. Revelation 12:14
What we must endure, is the next prophesied event; the Sixth Seal world changer.

Those people who have died now and up to when Jesus Returns, remain in the grave until the final Judgment, after the Millennium. Revelation 20:11-15
Only the Trib martyrs will be resurrected. Revelation 20:4

 

[jshiii]

So I listen to CSN while I work. I love the preaching but I don't agree with the pre-trib rapture that they are always teaching. Is there any online sources of good teachers with a non pre-trib view? Thanks in advance.

We may be past pre-trib now. So your question may already be answered. 1st week of March may be the 3.5 year mark, Mid-Trib. Trump has brought about peace with Israel and 10 Arab nations. Bill Gates has his nano tech and tracking system ready to be given to everyone on the planet. Elon Musk is sending the satellites (1000's) up! Evil is rampant! If the Lord Jesus Christ doesn't intervene soon, even the elect will be destroyed (not eternally though)! God Bless You!

Keep reading your Bible, Keep gathering with other Christians, Keep Praying. We will see him soon!

 

[Bobby Jo]

... 1st week of March may be the 3.5 year mark, Mid-Trib. ...

You errantly ascribe the FALSE "seventieth week" of Dan. 9, when Rev. 13:5 CORRECTLY stipulates 42 months TOTAL. And the J.R. Church "Hidden Prophecies In The Psalms" premise suggests 2018 as the START of the 42 months, which History validates the month of May for 2018.

Perhaps you were unaware.
ELAM (in the picture, with Bobby Jo doing the typing)

 

[JTH1234]

You errantly ascribe the FALSE "seventieth week" of Dan. 9, when Rev. 13:5 CORRECTLY stipulates 42 months TOTAL. And the J.R. Church "Hidden Prophecies In The Psalms" premise suggests 2018 as the START of the 42 months, which History validates the month of May for 2018.

Perhaps you were unaware.
ELAM (in the picture, with Bobby Jo doing the typing)

I’m curious about what your evidence is for May 2018 based on the Bible and current events?

 

[Bobby Jo]

I’m curious about what your evidence is for May 2018 based on the Bible and current events?

SURE: Are you familiar with the concept proposed by J.R. Church in his ~1985~ book, "Hidden Prophecies In The Psalms"? J.R Church and Gary Stearman co-hosted the TV show, "Prophecy In The News", where viewers wrote in that the 19th Book of the Bible, (the Psalms) appears to be prophetic to the Jews for the 1900's, Chapter for year, such that Book 19, Chapter 48 = 1948 International Recognition of the State of Israel.

It's a simple premise easily validated by rudimentary History, -- but you won't find the 1967 "Six Day War" because there was a decade of attacks by the Palestinians, so because this premise was from ~1985~ a simple validation might be the 1991 Desert Storm.

And then there's one more step when you're ready to proceed!

With Best Regards,
ELAM (in the picture, with Bobby Jo doing the typing )

 

[Timtofly]

No it isn't. The scenario you promote is nonsense.
As we never go to 'paradise', as you like to call it, the homily of Abraham and Lazarus is just that, we will be here during all that must happen until Jesus Returns. But all the faithful Christians will be kept safe during the final 3 1/2 years of the Great Tribulation. Revelation 12:14
What we must endure, is the next prophesied event; the Sixth Seal world changer.

Those people who have died now and up to when Jesus Returns, remain in the grave until the final Judgment, after the Millennium. Revelation 20:11-15
Only the Trib martyrs will be resurrected. Revelation 20:4

Jesus did not remain in the grave. Not sure why you think His body, the church is in the grave, but ok.

 

[teamventure]

Andrew Farley...Ravi Zacharias...Charles Stanley, Chip Ingraham, David Jeramiah,
Alistair Begg, J. Vernon McGee, Jay Sekulow...are some of who I listen to, but I read allot as well.
I do not buy into the pre trib either, although for many years I did...God bless, and welcome to the forums.

Well Charles Stanley, David Jeremiah, and Jay Sekulow are known to be pre tribbers.

 

[Nancy]

Well Charles Stanley, David Jeremiah, and Jay Sekulow are known to be pre tribbers.

I was not totally sure about Jay Sekulow, but the others surprise me?? maybe because I've never heard them speak on it perhaps? I assumed here

 

[teamventure]

I was not totally sure about Jay Sekulow, but the others surprise me?? maybe because I've never heard them speak on it perhaps? I assumed here

I had to ask a family member on Sekulow but I was already familiar with the other two Stanley and Jeremiah and have heard them teach many times. I am sure they are pre trib.

 

[Nancy]

I had to ask a family member on Sekulow but I was already familiar with the other two Stanley and Jeremiah and have heard them teach many times. I am sure they are pre trib.

I can def see Jeremiah. One of my brothers always sends me his devotionals in email, lol. I have not read a thing on the pre-trib yet...though he would know not to send it to me because he knowns I am not a pre-tribber.

 

[teamventure]

I can def see Jeremiah. One of my brothers always sends me his devotionals in email, lol. I have not read a thing on the pre-trib yet...though he would know not to send it to me because he knowns I am not a pre-tribber.

I am a huge fan of Ravi Zacharious.
Since he passed it would be interesting to see what his stance was.

 

[Nancy]

I am a huge fan of Ravi Zacharious.
Since he passed it would be interesting to see what his stance was.

Yes, I too am a huge fan and am still missing him. I have no clue but, would never have thought his stance would be pre-trib. He was more of an apologist anyhow, lol. God blessed us with that man.

 

[teamventure]

Yes, I too am a huge fan and am still missing him. I have no clue but, would never have thought his stance would be pre-trib. He was more of an apologist anyhow, lol. God blessed us with that man.

Indeed

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Of that day and hour no man knows not even the son of man knows

if post trib is true, everyone will know

if post trib is true, also why are their judges saints sitting in the throne room.

if post trib is true, when will the bema seat occur? Since the ones coming wth Christ have been judged and clothed

post trib, of all of the pre millennial beliefs is the least supported scripture I have found, and this is studying all three views,

ps. I am neither pre or. Mid, I believe every both have compelling arguments, and I will just say I do not know.

 

[Keraz]

Of that day and hour no man knows not even the son of man knows

if post trib is true, everyone will know

if post trib is true, also why are their judges saints sitting in the throne room.

if post trib is true, when will the bema seat occur? Since the ones coming wth Christ have been judged and clothed

post trib, of all of the pre millennial beliefs is the least supported scripture I have found, and this is studying all three views,

ps. I am neither pre or. Mid, I believe every both have compelling arguments, and I will just say I do not know.

If you mean a 'post trib rapture to heaven', that is error, as when Jesus Returns His faithful people will be His priests and co-rulers. Revelation 5:9-10, Isaiah 66:21
Those Christians living during the Great Tribulation, will know the Day of Jesus' Return; as it comes exactly 1269 days after the Temple is desecrated. It will be the Lord's terrible Day of fiery wrath, that will come unexpectedly.

The Judges seen in Revelation 20:4a, are there to confirm the separation of the 'sheep and goat' peoples. Matthew 25:31-33
No human comes with Christ. He Returns accompanied by the angel army. Revelation 19:14

What about the view as prophesied in the Bible? Where we Christians go to live in peace and security in all of the holy Land. Proved by how the People of God are there when the 'beast' conquers them. Daniel 7:25, Revelation 13:7

 

[Ronald Nolette]

There are plenty of renowned Postribbers--they just don't make a scene about it. Famed anti-cultist Walter Martin was Postrib, as is Pat Robertson. Corrie ten Boom was an ardent Postrib. I discovered that Postribbers are not sensationalists who are into hype and hysteria, whereas Pretribbers pay a premium on expectation, tension, drama, and doing detective work about what's next coming around the hill.

Does that tell you what the problem is? Pretribbers are big names precisely because they play upon people's carnal wish to be out ahead of history prophetically, and be able to say, "I knew that was going to happen." They want to tell others how to prepare, and how to avoid the big problems coming upon the world. Actually, God decides what we can avoid and what we can't avoid.

Some do, but to paint all pretribbers with your broad brush is bigoted of you.

I am a pre tribber because after 46 years of being a believer, I have learned that it is the only time fo the rapture that makes biblical sense!

Every mid, pre-wrath, and post tribber I have read and studied have all had to gerrymander Scriptures to fit their timeline.

I have taugh a dispensational eschatology for 35 yearsin churches, and bible Institutes. I am currently preparing for a zoom debate with a pre-wrath pastor where we may go televised as well.

I don't sensationalize or do anything you falsely accuse me of. I teach and wwarn people to live holy lives,

Proving a pre trib rapture is biblically easy based on only three lines of reasoning.

1. REv. 6
2. 1 thess. 1
3. the purpose for teh tribulation period.