Apostolic councils?

[Brakelite]

Backlit,

If the Catholic Church is not The Church spoken of in Scripture then which Church is The Church?

Curious Mary

I never said the Catholic Church isn't spoken of in scripture. It most certainly is, just not in the way you would like it.

The Church did away with a commandment of God???

In the Convert’s Catechism of Catholic Doctrine, we read:
Q. Which is the Sabbath day?
A. Saturday is the Sabbath day.

Q. Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?
A. We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church, in the Council of Laodicea, (AD 336) transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday….

Q. Why did the Catholic Church substitute Sunday for Saturday?
A. The Church substituted Sunday for Saturday, because Christ rose from the dead on a Sunday, and the Holy Ghost descended upon the Apostles on a Sunday.

Q. By what authority did the Church substitute Sunday for Saturday?
A. The Church substituted Sunday for Saturday by the plenitude of that divine power which Jesus Christ bestowed upon her!
—Rev. Peter Geiermann, C.SS.R., (1946), p. 50.
In Catholic Christian Instructed,
Q. Has the [Catholic] church power to make any alterations in the commandments of God?
A. ...Instead of the seventh day, and other festivals appointed by the old law, the church has prescribed the Sundays and holy days to be set apart for God’s worship; and these we are now obliged to keep in consequence of God’s commandment, instead of the ancient Sabbath.
—The Catholic Christian Instructed in the Sacraments, Sacrifices, Ceremonies, and Observances of the Church By Way of Question and Answer, RT Rev. Dr. Challoner, p. 204.
In An Abridgment of the Christian Doctrine,
Q. How prove you that the church hath power to command feasts and holy days?
A. By the very act of changing the Sabbath into Sunday, which Protestants allow of; and therefore they fondly contradict themselves, by keeping Sunday strictly, and breaking most other feasts commanded by the same church.

Q. How prove you that?
A. Because by keeping Sunday, they acknowledge the church’s power to ordain feasts, and to command them under sin; and by not keeping the rest [of the feasts] by her commanded, they again deny, in fact, the same power.
–Rev. Henry Tuberville, D.D. (R.C.), (1833), page 58.
In A Doctrinal Catechism,Q. Have you any other way of proving that the Church has power to institute festivals of precept?
A. Had she not such power, she could not have done that in which all modern religionists agree with her. She could not have substituted the observance of Sunday the first day of the week, for the observance of Saturday the seventh day, a change for which there is no Scriptural authority.
–Rev. Stephen Keenan, (1851), p. 174.
In the Catechism of the Council of Trent,The Church of God has thought it well to transfer the celebration and observance of the Sabbath to Sunday!
–p 402, second revised edition (English), 1937. (First published in 1566)
In the Augsburg Confession,They [the Catholics] allege the Sabbath changed into Sunday, the Lord’s day, contrary to the decalogue, as it appears; neither is there any example more boasted of than the changing of the Sabbath day. Great, they say, is the power and authority of the church, since it dispensed with one of the ten commandments.
—Art. 28.

 

[Marymog]

Whichever individual or group that continued in the faith throughout history and didn't apostatize. And there were many, all of whom refused to accept the traditions and innovations of Rome. Do you understand that the true church was always the church in the wilderness, not the state sanctioned persecuting church of the empire,?

KJV Revelation 12:6, 13-14, 17
6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Whichever individual or group that didn’t apostatize The Church??????????????? A individual OR a group can be The Church????????????????

Hmmmmm........So Rome can’t be the place that has the Fathers house; The Church started by Christ. I wonder were the Fathers house is? Luke 2;49

 

[Marymog]

Whichever individual or group that continued in the faith throughout history and didn't apostatize. And there were many, all of whom refused to accept the traditions and innovations of Rome. Do you understand that the true church was always the church in the wilderness, not the state sanctioned persecuting church of the empire,?....

Hi Backlit,

Please bear with me here and put all your bias aside. With that said, I have bias also!!!

Your theory is that the "individual or group that continued in the faith throughout history and didn't apostatize" is The Church. You also said that "there were many" and they were the ones that "refused to accept the traditions and innovations of Rome".

Since you KNOW that there were individuals or groups that continued in the faith throughout history and they did not apostatize AND anyone that refused to accept the traditions and innovations of Rome did not apostatize logically you must know who those individuals or groups are!! So who are those Christians that did not apostatize? Anyone that didn't agree with Rome?

Once again, putting your bias aside and using logic, there were HUNDREDS of men who disagreed with Rome who all started their own churches (denominations) with their own doctrines, dogmas, beliefs, traditions etc. So out of those HUNDREDS who all disagreed with Rome AND they disagreed with each other how do YOU, Backlit, determine which ones were still in apostasy??? Logically ALL of them could not have been correct in their interpretation of Scripture and what one must do to obtain salvation!!! Which one of those.....as you said...."true church(es) was always the church in the wilderness"?

Many years ago I thought like you do. But then I began to realize what I was thinking didn't make any sense. I knew that Scripture was the Truth given to us by God and there were certain things one needed to do/believe to obtain salvation. But every church I went to had a different answer to that. It made no sense logically. I put my bias aside and I began researching Christian History and comparing it to what Scripture says. What did the earliest Christians, the ones living closest to the life of the Apostles, teach, preach, practice, believe etc. Luke 2:49 was a wake up call. Even Jesus said he had to be in his Fathers house!!! It blew my mind. JESUS found his Fathers house here on earth???? And it was a building (temple)???? And He said he was going to build a Church upon a rock!!! And that Church is the pillar and foundation of truth and the men of that church decide who can be ex-communicated???? Obviously the HUNDREDS of men that disagree with Rome don't fit that definition and are able to fulfill Scripture!! There can be only one Church that is in perfect unity (John 17:21-23)!!

I have found The Church that is written about in Scripture. You haven't. Please don't ask me if I understand that the true church was always the church in the wilderness!!! I do understand what the true Church is and it's not and never has been and never will be in the wilderness. It has always been visible and available to every man, woman and child for 2,000 years.

Respectfully, Mary

 

[Marymog]

I never said the Catholic Church isn't spoken of in scripture. It most certainly is, just not in the way you would like it.

In the Convert’s Catechism of Catholic Doctrine, we read:
Q. Which is the Sabbath day?
A. Saturday is the Sabbath day.

Q. Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?
A. We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church, in the Council of Laodicea, (AD 336) transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday….

Q. Why did the Catholic Church substitute Sunday for Saturday?
A. The Church substituted Sunday for Saturday, because Christ rose from the dead on a Sunday, and the Holy Ghost descended upon the Apostles on a Sunday.

Q. By what authority did the Church substitute Sunday for Saturday?
A. The Church substituted Sunday for Saturday by the plenitude of that divine power which Jesus Christ bestowed upon her!
—Rev. Peter Geiermann, C.SS.R., (1946), p. 50.
In Catholic Christian Instructed,
Q. Has the [Catholic] church power to make any alterations in the commandments of God?
A. ...Instead of the seventh day, and other festivals appointed by the old law, the church has prescribed the Sundays and holy days to be set apart for God’s worship; and these we are now obliged to keep in consequence of God’s commandment, instead of the ancient Sabbath.
—The Catholic Christian Instructed in the Sacraments, Sacrifices, Ceremonies, and Observances of the Church By Way of Question and Answer, RT Rev. Dr. Challoner, p. 204.
In An Abridgment of the Christian Doctrine,
Q. How prove you that the church hath power to command feasts and holy days?
A. By the very act of changing the Sabbath into Sunday, which Protestants allow of; and therefore they fondly contradict themselves, by keeping Sunday strictly, and breaking most other feasts commanded by the same church.

Q. How prove you that?
A. Because by keeping Sunday, they acknowledge the church’s power to ordain feasts, and to command them under sin; and by not keeping the rest [of the feasts] by her commanded, they again deny, in fact, the same power.
–Rev. Henry Tuberville, D.D. (R.C.), (1833), page 58.
In A Doctrinal Catechism,Q. Have you any other way of proving that the Church has power to institute festivals of precept?
A. Had she not such power, she could not have done that in which all modern religionists agree with her. She could not have substituted the observance of Sunday the first day of the week, for the observance of Saturday the seventh day, a change for which there is no Scriptural authority.
–Rev. Stephen Keenan, (1851), p. 174.
In the Catechism of the Council of Trent,The Church of God has thought it well to transfer the celebration and observance of the Sabbath to Sunday!
–p 402, second revised edition (English), 1937. (First published in 1566)
In the Augsburg Confession,They [the Catholics] allege the Sabbath changed into Sunday, the Lord’s day, contrary to the decalogue, as it appears; neither is there any example more boasted of than the changing of the Sabbath day. Great, they say, is the power and authority of the church, since it dispensed with one of the ten commandments.
—Art. 28.

The Convert’s Catechism of Catholic Doctrine is not the teaching of The Church it is the writings of Father Peter Geiermann!

Here is where you go if you want to know the teachings of The Church: The Holy See

The NT Christians practiced Sunday as the Sabbath! You Don't?

Thank you for your time!!