Are all born-again Christians part of God’s elect?

[Rex]

IMO, it is possible for a born-again Christian to NOT co-operate with being sanctified.

IMO, there are 3 types of people in the churches (along with the curious and the seekers):
(1) the converted ... believe the gospel in their minds, but not in their hearts
(2) the born-again ... have been given the Holy Spirit in their hearts, but resist full sanctification
(3) the elect ... really willing to pay the price to be sanctified unto holiness by the Holy Spirit

IMO, it is possible to be born-again, but not part of the elect who attain salvation.

John do you have any verses that support your beliefs?

I have one that's in apparent contradiction to yours, and I'll include the verses following it as well

30“He who is not with Me is against Me; and he who does not gather with Me scatters.

31“Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven people, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven.32“Whoever
speaks a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but
whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him,
either in this age or in the age to come.

Words Reveal Character

33“Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or make the tree bad and its fruit bad; for the tree is known by its fruit.

I find your effort to pigeon hole salvation, baptism and even the Holy Spirit into varying degrees a work of the flesh instead of the word spoken.
IMO its an attempt to explain the un-scriptural, or better yet justify the unsaved. The same as some that insist born again Christians can experience demonic spiritual possession, it's an attempt to explain something that has no biblical foundation, but your convinced of the fact based on your own observation.

 

[veteran]

Please, V ...

This whole thread is about born-again Christians and God's elect during the past 2000 years,
and you're insisting on turning it into an end-times thread?

Preterism, which is what you're speaking from regarding that 2000 years idea, is a doctrine of men, not a Biblical doctrine. The OP did not mention anything about a 2000 period with this matter either, that's your own take, obviously based on that Preterist idea you hold to. I do not try to replace the coming world kingdom under Christ Jesus with man's attempt to replace it today.

 

[John Zain]

John do you have any verses that support your beliefs?

Only the ones promised in the OP.

 

[Rex]

Only the ones promised in the OP.

There are no verses quoted in the OP but you said you would provide verses for the blue part

I'm asking you directly, do you have some verses that support your 3 stages or types of Christians? the red part.
In particular number 2, please tell me how you came to this conclusion, that's a reasonable request isn't it?

IMO, there are 3 types of people in the churches (along with the curious and the seekers):

(1) the converted ... believe the gospel in their minds, but not in their hearts

(2) the born-again ... have been given the Holy Spirit in their hearts, but resist full sanctification

(3) the elect ... really willing to pay the price to be sanctified unto holiness by the Holy Spirit



IMO, it is possible to be born-again, but not part of the elect who attain salvation.

The way I read your OP is you had some verses in mind then you interpreted them in blue.
Then based on that information you presented the final results in red.
So tell me just how does scripture support the red

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

I came across another verse in Ephesians 2:19 where the Jews are called the saints

NASB 19 So then you (gentiles) are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and are of God’s household,


Below I have copied everything from Ephesians 2:11-22 because it does a good job of comparing gentile Christians with Jewish Christians ..... yet shows the distinctiveness of the two groups

(NASB Eph.2:11-22 )

11 Therefore remember that formerly you, the Gentiles in the flesh, who are called “Uncircumcision” by the so-called “Circumcision,” which is performed in the flesh by human hands— 12 remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14 For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall, 15 by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace, 16 and might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, by it having put to death the enmity. 17 And He came and preached peace to you who were far away, and peace to those who were near; 18 for through Him we both have our access in one Spirit to the Father. 19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and are of God’s household, 20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone, 21 in whom the whole building, being fitted together, is growing into a holy temple in the Lord, 22 in whom you also are being built together into a dwelling of God in the Spirit.

 

[veteran]

If one wants to include that difference of Eph.2 also, then it points to what Paul said in Romans 9 that God's true Israel is not according to flesh seed, but according to Faith. Not one unbelieving Israelite or unbelieving Gentile is going to see God's future Kingdom. Still as of right now, we have the Promise of His Salvation to come, which is still yet to be fulfilled de facto by His Presence with us in Person.

 

[John Zain]

I'm asking you directly, do you have some verses that support your 3 stages or types of Christians? the red part.
In particular number 2, please tell me how you came to this conclusion, that's a reasonable request isn't it?

Re: numero deux ... Many people have agreed with my opinion that ...
the warnings to the churches were/are written to everyone in said churches,
i.e. there might just be some born-agains in them.
Ergo, the warning verses are my verses.
Why write them if the born-agains cannot resist being sanctified?

 

[Rex]

Re: numero deux ... Many people have agreed with my opinion that ...
the warnings to the churches were/are written to everyone in said churches,
i.e. there might just be some born-agains in them.
Ergo, the warning verses are my verses.
Why write them if the born-agains cannot resist being sanctified?

That's what I thought you and or someone else just dreamed this up.
You can not point to any biblical writings that indicate your thesis.

IMO, there are 3 types of people in the churches (along with the curious and the seekers):


(1) the converted ... believe the gospel in their minds, but not in their hearts


(2) the born-again ... have been given the Holy Spirit in their hearts, but resist full sanctification


(3) the elect ... really willing to pay the price to be sanctified unto holiness by the Holy Spirit





IMO, it is possible to be born-again, but not part of the elect who attain salvation.

Ergo, the warning verses are my verses.

Seems to be a pretty common practice anymore, writing your own verses

 

[John Zain]

Rex,

Sorry, thought you've read the threads about the warning verses ...
http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/17585-some-of-the-serious-nt-warnings-to-the-churches/
and
http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/17374-who-were-the-many-warnings-in-the-nt-written-to/

I'll send you a Bible also.

 

[Rex]

Rex,

Sorry, thought you've read the threads about the warning verses ...
http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/17585-some-of-the-serious-nt-warnings-to-the-churches/
and
http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/17374-who-were-the-many-warnings-in-the-nt-written-to/

I'll send you a Bible also.

If answering a simple direct question about your OP is beyond your capability just say so and quit avoiding the question please.

Here is the question again for the third time

I'm asking you directly, do you have some verses that support your 3 stages or types of Christians? the red part.

In particular number 2, please tell me how you came to this conclusion, that's a reasonable request isn't it?


IMO, there are 3 types of people in the churches (along with the curious and the seekers):



(1) the converted ... believe the gospel in their minds, but not in their hearts



(2) the born-again ... have been given the Holy Spirit in their hearts, but resist full sanctification



(3) the elect ... really willing to pay the price to be sanctified unto holiness by the Holy Spirit







IMO, it is possible to be born-again, but not part of the elect who attain salvation.

If you can't answer then it's reasonable to assume that it's nothing more than your opinion.

We'll call your new bible the JZ version short for your name, and you don't need to bother sending it I will never use it

 

[horsecamp]

unbreakable golden chain of our election”:
and Jesus warning us we can fall from faith .

Here we are confronted with two sets of Scripture passages that, to our limited human reason, appear to contradict each other.

On one side, Scripture warns of the real danger of falling from faith. In Jesus’ parable of the sower, he mourns those who “believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away” (Luke 8:13). Paul speaks a powerful warning in 1 Corinthians 10:12: “So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you do not fall.” In 1 Timothy, Paul even mentions Christians by name who “shipwrecked their faith” (1:19).

On the other side are passages that teach our eternal election. In Ephesians 1:4 Paul unveils the wonder that God “chose us in [Christ] before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight.” In Romans 8:30 Paul weaves what some call the “unbreakable golden chain of our election”: “Those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.” What begins in eternity continues inevitably to a glorious eternity. Jesus also promises that none of us will slip through his or his Father’s hands (John 10:28,29). We see that portrayed in picture language in Revelation 7 as the exact “number” of the elect arrives home safely. Not one is missing.


READ REST

CLICK LINK TO READ WHOLE THING



QA at the foot of the cross-Falling from faith

 

[Axehead]

unbreakable golden chain of our election”:
and Jesus warning us we can fall from faith .

Here we are confronted with two sets of Scripture passages that, to our limited human reason, appear to contradict each other.

On one side, Scripture warns of the real danger of falling from faith. In Jesus’ parable of the sower, he mourns those who “believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away” (Luke 8:13). Paul speaks a powerful warning in 1 Corinthians 10:12: “So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you do not fall.” In 1 Timothy, Paul even mentions Christians by name who “shipwrecked their faith” (1:19).

On the other side are passages that teach our eternal election. In Ephesians 1:4 Paul unveils the wonder that God “chose us in [Christ] before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight.” In Romans 8:30 Paul weaves what some call the “unbreakable golden chain of our election”: “Those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.” What begins in eternity continues inevitably to a glorious eternity. Jesus also promises that none of us will slip through his or his Father’s hands (John 10:28,29). We see that portrayed in picture language in Revelation 7 as the exact “number” of the elect arrives home safely. Not one is missing.


READ REST

CLICK LINK TO READ WHOLE THING



QA at the foot of the cross-Falling from faith

Interesting read. Amazing how "Catholic", Lutherans have become. The Counter-Reformation at it's best.

 

[John Zain]

"unbreakable golden chain of our election” and Jesus warning us we can fall from faith .
CLICK LINK TO READ WHOLE THING
QA at the foot of the cross-Falling from faith

I also read this short article.

What makes the most sense to me is ...

When God talks about the elect, and when He gives the OSAS passages,
He is referring to those who actually do make it through to the end and attain Heaven.
There is this group, right? ... But, no one knows for sure who they are.

But, I'm not offering an opinion here on who, how, why, when, etc.

 

[justaname]

I also read this short article.

What makes the most sense to me is ...

When God talks about the elect, and when He gives the OSAS passages,
He is referring to those who actually do make it through to the end and attain Heaven.
There is this group, right? ... But, no one knows for sure who they are.

But, I'm not offering an opinion here on who, how, why, when, etc.

This is how I understand it also.

 

[SilenceInMotion]

The word 'elect' in itself implies that God chooses you, you do not choose God. And so by the very definition of election, you only try to be elected- you work in God's favor in that you will be saved. Baptism in itself is not guarenteed salvation, it is simply an augmentation for your good works. When you make the choice, something inside you becomes augmented with a cross.

But the Spirit does not simply reside only in baptism or strong faith. Many of the greatest saints in history did not necessarily hit the mark of a good Christian by popular standards. Still, the Spirit resided in them to do the will of God, and they were elected before even the time of their birth. That does not mean to say we do not have free will or even that it isn't primary in our salvation, it simply means that God's will cannot be reversed by our own.

 

[John Zain]

Baptism in itself is not guarenteed salvation, it is simply an augmentation for your good works.

But the Spirit does not simply reside only in baptism or strong faith.

Art thou all hung up on water baptism?
Paul said he did not go to baptize, but to preach the gospel.
I wonder why Paul would say that?

 

[JB_Reformed Baptist]

I also read this short article.

What makes the most sense to me is ...

When God talks about the elect, and when He gives the OSAS passages,
He is referring to those who actually do make it through to the end and attain Heaven.
There is this group, right? ... But, no one knows for sure who they are.

But, I'm not offering an opinion here on who, how, why, when, etc.

I also read this short article.

What makes the most sense to me is ...

When God talks about the elect, and when He gives the OSAS passages,
He is referring to those who actually do make it through to the end and attain Heaven.
There is this group, right? ... But, no one knows for sure who they are.

But, I'm not offering an opinion here on who, how, why, when, etc.

Are you a SDA or COG member or just maybe a pentecostal?

 

[Axehead]

Are you a SDA or COG member or just maybe a pentecostal?

Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

 

[JB_Reformed Baptist]

Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

)

 

[John Zain]

Are you a SDA or COG member or just maybe a pentecostal?

I is just maybe an aboriginal pentecostal/charismatic.
Thou knowest, like those in the NT (sans the aboriginal part).