Are all born-again Christians part of God’s elect?

[justaname]

A little reading on being born again in an unrelated fashion but I thought it interesting and possibly edifying to this discussion.

John 3:3-7
3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

4 Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born, can he?”

5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

6 “That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

7 “Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’

Key words I believe to meditate on here is verse 3, "Unless one is born again he can not see the kingdom of God." Now Jesus does not answer
Nicodemus directly yet to his question, He only further qualifies His initial statement. This leads Nicodemus to ask again, "How can these things be?"

Jesus finally answers in verse 14-15

14 “As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up;

15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life.


Now many of my Calvinist friends get hung up on the total depravity situation, thereby they place regeneration before faith using verse 5 for their support. The logical argument is something like if man is totally depraved, unable to please God, then God must first do an act of regeneration before anyone can come to faith, hence, "unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God." They say you are born again before you come to faith.

My thought is this, if God has elected you to be able to place faith in the Son of Man, lift His name, Jesus the Christ, to the heavens as God, all for His glory and His namesake, then you become born again after you have lifted His name. So I would say all who are born again, are born into the body of Christ, and await adoption as sons and daughters and have been elected by God to be as such.

Now the Calvinist will beg to ask, what makes you different than another that does not lift His name, or simply have faith? How come you who were in total depravity was able to come to faith? What broke your bonds to sin and death?
I stand it is by God's election and mercy, all to His glory and namesake. Some mysteries are not fully revealed, but regeneration does not precede faith.

Romans 9:15-16

15 For He says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”

16 So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy.

 

[John Zain]

How come you who were in total depravity was able to come to faith?
What broke your bonds to sin and death?
I stand it is by God's election and mercy, all to His glory and namesake.
Some mysteries are not fully revealed, but regeneration does not precede faith.

I have been participating a little in a month-long discussion elsewhere about this.
The Moderators are arguing that man's belief comes first ... before God comes through with His grace.
Very frustrating for me ... IMO, justaname and myself have the same revelation about this topic.

Except your red is a tad perplexing ... perhaps you are saying ...
God's mercy-grace election >>>> belief >>>> regeneration

 

[Rex]

I have been participating a little in a month-long discussion elsewhere about this.
The Moderators are arguing that man's belief comes first ... before God comes through with His grace.
Very frustrating for me ... IMO, justaname and myself have the same revelation about this topic.

Except your red is a tad perplexing ... perhaps you are saying ...
God's mercy-grace election >>>> belief >>>> regeneration

This verse is taken out of context; election is the word moving and bringing about that which He has spoken Isa 55:11 the word went out --> Gen 3:15
11 (for the children
not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose
of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who
calls), 12 it was said to her, “The older shall serve the younger.”[d] 13 As it is written, “Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated.”

15 For He says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”

16 So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy.

14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not! 15 For He says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion.”[f]16 So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy.

2 Peter 3:9
1 Tim 2:4
Eze 18:23



---------------->>>>The blue part is what you call election 2 Chr 16:9 John 6:44
----->>Romans 10:17 now notice in Eph 4:20 If indeed you have heard God Romans 10:17<<----


Here are the steps, 1 hear God,and be taught 2 repent 3 be renewed in your mind 4 then the Spirit will be put on,

Eph 4:20 But you have not so learned Christ, 21 if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught by Him, as the truth is in Jesus: 22 that you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts, 23 and be renewed in the spirit of your mind, 24 and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness.

 

[SilenceInMotion]

Interesting read. Amazing how "Catholic", Lutherans have become. The Counter-Reformation at it's best.

Lutheranism has always been a bit catholic in their ideas and themes, aside from their doctrines of justification. It's all the churches spiraled from Lutheran belief that is pretty much anti-catholic in about everything they do. Take Jesus off the cross (a few of them actually do have Jesus on the cross) minus a statue of Mary, and Lutheran churches practically resemble Catholic ones. In fact, Calvinist churches are identical to that as well.

In other words, they aren't counter-reformists, they are properly and traditionally Protestant.

 

[John Zain]

Here are the steps, 1 hear God,and be taught 2 repent 3 be renewed in your mind 4 then the Spirit will be put on,

IMHO, how the born-again Christian gets to become saved:
(1) gospel presented
(2) God's gift of faith given
(3) spiritual revelation (major veil removed)
(4) BELIEF
(5) born-again
(6) positional sanctification
(7) turn to the Lord in faith
(8) veil removed about other spiritual things
(9) co-operation with sanctifcation process begins
(10) sanctification continues in earnest, believer is a successful "overcomer"

 

[Rex]

I see you didn't include the colored verse I provided in your quote of my post.

Don't you understand that some people like to see from where your beliefs are founded
like the bible for instance

I'll ask you again, do you have any particular bible verse that shapes your opinion?
See here, and you can do it to. It's called being prepared to give an answer for the faith with-in you 1 Peter 3:15

Here are the steps, 21 hear God,and be taught 22 repent 23 be renewed in your mind 24 then the Spirit will be put on,

Eph 4:20 But you have not so learned Christ,
21 if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught by Him, as the truth is in Jesus:
22 that you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts,
23 and be renewed in the spirit of your mind,
24 and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness.

 

[JB_Reformed Baptist]

I is just maybe an aboriginal pentecostal/charismatic.
Thou knowest, like those in the NT (sans the aboriginal part).

Thanks for responding.