Are Bible codes from God?

[WhiteKnuckle]

What are these Bible codes? People are saying that there's Number codes in the bible, and picture codes. Supposedly these are all prophecy of the future. Are they scriptural? In my opinion, they aren't. I know there's knowledgeable people here.

 

[gumby]

Dont listen to people like that, those are traditions of men and a child of god should not go near them. The strange thing about it though is those people who take the time to code the bible are the same exact people who beleive in the rapture theory wich is just as easy to disspprove.

 

[Brother Mike]

Bible Codes..................Gumby, I believe there might be a rapture!!! While many have found amazing statements in the Bible (Hebrew only) using skip line and sequence methods, and awesome computers. There is no denying that there are messages. What we need to remember is that as a Christian we don't need to bother with any bible code, as we have the Word of God. That code is in there for those that don't believe. Those messages will not help anyone understand anything unless it has already happened. I also don't think those codes were meant to draw anyone to Jesus, as thats the job of the Holy Ghost. Jesus Is Lord.

 

[gumby]

[quote name='Brother Mike;72818]Bible Codes.................. Gumby' date=' I believe there might be a rapture!!! While many have found amazing statements in the Bible (Hebrew only) using skip line and sequence methods, and awesome computers. There is no denying that there are messages. What we need to remember is that as a Christian we don't need to bother with any bible code, as we have the Word of God. That code is in there for those that don't believe. Those messages will not help anyone understand anything unless it has already happened. I also don't think those codes were meant to draw anyone to Jesus, as thats the job of the Holy Ghost. Jesus Is Lord.[/QUOTE'] Please tell me you are only joking about the rapture, Ezekiel 13:20 makes it crystal clear that god is against fly away docrines used to deceive. Beleive me when i tell you this the rapture myth is satins little game that he throws out but its not in the bible not one solid word mentioning rapture. I am a warrior for god im not flying anywhere.

 

[Martin W.]

Ifwetakethisparagraphthatdoesnothaveanyspacesbetweenthewordsanduseacomputortorandrandomlypickeveryseventhletterwecouldverywellspellthenameofjesusandifthatdoesnotworkwecanaskthecomputortokeeppickinganinfinitecombinationuntilfinlallywegetwhatwewantthatisthebasisofthebiblenumbercodesdonotbedeceived

 

[Brother Mike]

Martin:

Ifwetakethisparagraphthatdoesnothaveanyspacesbetwe enthewordsanduseacomputortorandrandomlypickeveryse venthletterwecouldverywellspellthenameofjesusandif thatdoesnotworkwecanaskthecomputortokeeppickingani nfinitecombinationuntilfinlallywegetwhatwewantthat isthebasisofthebiblenumbercodesdonotbedeceived

Amazing, using skip line and sequence I was able to determine from your message that Helltog is the name of the anti Christ. Amazing!!! now we know.Gumby: Re-read the whole chapter of Ezekiel 13:20. God is speaking of those that worship statues, using trinkets and charms to foretell future events. God is not speaking against those that love God, and may believe in a Rapture. We need to keep the whole scripture in context and not take a single verse to prove a point. Here is a better breakdown of what the Hebrew really says in 13:20.Eze 13:20 Therefore, thus said the Lord Jehovah: Lo, I am against your pillows, With which ye are hunting there the souls of the flourishing, And I have rent them from off your arms, And have sent away the souls that ye are hunting, The souls of the flourishing. Youngs Literal Translation. Eze 13:20 Therefore thus says the Lord God: Behold, I am against your pillows and charms and veils with which you snare human lives like birds, and I will tear them from your arms and will let the lives you hunt go free, the lives you are snaring like birds.Hebrew Pillow: keseth1) band, fillet, covered amulets, false phylacteries1a) used by false prophetesses in Israel to support their demonic fortune-telling schemesThis has nothing to do with the rapture theory, and those that believe in a Rapture and love God do not use amulets, or demonic fortune telling schemes. Eze 13:22 Because with lies ye have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad; and strengthened the hands of the wicked, that he should not return from his wicked way, by promising him life: Eze 13:23 Therefore ye shall see no more vanity, nor divine divinations: for I will deliver my people out of your hand: and ye shall know that I am the LORD. Now to use this scripture on someone that believes in the Rapture, we would have to say that they have made the hearts of the righteous sad, and gave strength to the wicked. We would also have to accuse them of divine divinations. We would also say that they are liars!!!! and practice Witchcraft. So.............Eze 13:20A) This scripture has nothing to do with the Rapture. B) This is a rapture scripture, and I have to accuse many of God children of not really loving God, and call the witches. In fact, they would not even be considered God's Children. I am not willing to do that, so the answer is A.Jesus Is Lord.

 

[Christina]

Well I think there is something to codes but I dont think we are to use them for anything ... except maybe to see Gods hand was at work ... When we can see past events recorded .... The argument of Martains has long ago been disproved the odds are so astronomical to be beyond chance as the code people now can find entire sentences ect.Not sure I buy the picture codes however. On Rapture topic you are mistaken Mike Eze.13:20 has everything to do with RaptureChrist returns once at the end the 7th trump...Flesh and blood can not enter heaven and there is no rapture written and God doesnt like those who teach his children they are going to fly (away) 2 thess tells you concerning our gathering to Lord it will not occur until after ... The man of sin son of pertion that is Antichrist .... But then you knew I was going to say that

 

[Tombstone]

I have to agree with Mike on this one.Wherever you stand on the Rapture, Ezekiel 13:20 has nothing to do with it. Ezekiel 13 deals with False prophets and verse 20 specifically addresses the items used by those prophets.KJV called them pillows, the Hebrew translation meaning bands or amulets.NAS calls them 'magic bands' and NIV calls them 'magic charms'.Those that believe in the Rapture are not stating it will be facilitated by magic pillow/amulets/charms, etc. They use scripture, nothing more.If the scripture's usage can be refuted, fine. But not using Ez. 3:20.Apples and oranges. As far as, "Flesh and blood can not enter heaven" I have not seen anywhere where it says that those caught up with God in the Rapture would remain flesh and blood.As far as codes, I don't think so.I saw an interesting piece on the History Channel a couple of months ago where they had 'experts' who used codes to fortell Adolf Hitler, Saddam Hussein, 9/11, etc.Then they brought on people using the same computer technology who pointed out "Mickey Mouse" "Superman" "Atlantis" etc. etc. etc.People see what they want to see.

 

[Jordan]

The word "pillow" in Ezekiel 13:20 is "Doctrines" aka Traditions of Man! And you act like Ezekiel 13:20 is not scripture. If it's in the bible then it's scripture.

 

[Christina]

Exactly Tombstone and sense the Bible never speaks of any pretrib rapture or hidden coming those who preach it are false prophets teachers covering truth and preaching a lie ..That is exactly why Eze. 13:20 is about Rapture the false prophets who teach Gods children to fly ... There is only one catching away at the 7th trump and 2 thess tells you its after the A.C. and tribulation not before. Pre trib Rapture is is non existent in scripture2 thess was written to correct the error in 1 thess. So rapture is based in an error that was corrected ...roots of Rapturehttp://www.scionofzion.com/pretrib_rapture_diehards.htm

 

[Tombstone]

"The word "pillow" in Ezekiel 13:20 is "Doctrines" aka Traditions of Man! And you act like Ezekiel 13:20 is not scripture. If it's in the bible then it's scripture." -- Jordan-- Never said 13:20 wasn't scripture. Never even implied it. I even quoted it using three seperate Bible translations.Perhaps you should read more thoroughly, then speak. "Exactly Tombstone and sense the Bible never speaks of any pretrib rapture or hidden coming those who preach it are false prophets teachers covering truth and preaching a lie ..That is exactly why Eze. 13:20 is about Rapture the false prophets who teach Gods children to fly ... " -- Christina"Wherefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly." -- Ez. 13:20I am sorry Christina. I am reading the same scripture you are and don't read into it what you do. In reading the entire chapter you see that the 'pillows' are more literal than you let on. In verse 18 it talks about, "Woe to the women who so magic charmes on all their wrists and make veils of various lengths for their heads in order to ensnare people."THAT to me implies that what is being said in verse 20 address specifically what was said in verse 18.If you read 18, 19, and 20 together you get: "And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Woe to the women that sew pillows to all armholes, and make kerchiefs upon the head of every stature to hunt souls! Will ye hunt the souls of my people, and will ye save the souls alive that come unto you?And will ye pollute me among my people for handfuls of barley and for pieces of bread, to slay the souls that should not die, and to save the souls alive that should not live, by your lying to my people that hear your lies?Wherefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly."-- If you read it in that context, it seems to support your point even less.What I also hear you saying is this: Ez. 13:20 PROVES that the Rapture concept is wrong because the Rapture is false teaching and Ez. 13:20 warns against false teaching.I am unable to follow that circular argument. What else am I hearing?Ez. 13:20 is talking specifically about the Rapture because it mentions people flying. But did not the false prophets of that time claim they would make people fly?Also, Es. 13 has some pretty strong names for these false prophets.What I am hearing on this BB is that those Christian brothers and sisters who claim that the Rapture is real should be called those names, as well.The implication is that any Christian who believes in the Rapture is INTENTIONALLY misreading scripture.I cannot abide by that.

 

[Jordan]

"Woe to the women who so magic charmes on all their wrists and make veils of various lengths for their heads in order to ensnare people."[/B]THAT to me implies that what is being said in verse 20 address specifically what was said in verse 18.If you read 18, 19, and 20 together you get: "And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Woe to the women that sew pillows to all armholes, and make kerchiefs upon the head of every stature to hunt souls! Will ye hunt the souls of my people, and will ye save the souls alive that come unto you?And will ye pollute me among my people for handfuls of barley and for pieces of bread, to slay the souls that should not die, and to save the souls alive that should not live, by your lying to my people that hear your lies?Wherefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly."-- If you read it in that context, it seems to support your point even less.What I also hear you saying is this: Ez. 13:20 PROVES that the Rapture concept is wrong because the Rapture is false teaching and Ez. 13:20 warns against false teaching.I am unable to follow that circular argument. What else am I hearing?Ez. 13:20 is talking specifically about the Rapture because it mentions people flying. But did not the false prophets of that time claim they would make people fly?Also, Es. 13 has some pretty strong names for these false prophets.What I am hearing on this BB is that those Christian brothers and sisters who claim that the Rapture is real should be called those names, as well.The implication is that any Christian who believes in the Rapture is INTENTIONALLY misreading scripture.I cannot abide by that.

I never said you didn't say Ezekiel 13:20 wasn't scripture... I only said you act like... (AKA, sound like)Well, we have to agree to disagree then... be careful however, that doctrine "Rapture" came from a teenage girl in the 1800's. To "caught away in the air" clearly indicates Rapture (AKA fly away)To tell you the Truth. I Thessalonians 4:16-17 is not meant to be taken literally, but rather symbolic. It is symbolically / spiritually the same thing as I Corinthians 15:44, I Corinthians 15:50-54. Except I Corinthians 15 is whereof literal, whereof I Thessalonians 4:16-17 is symbolic / spiritual.Air is our Spirit self in I Thessalonians 4:16-17.And God never have His children to fly away safety to Him... and He won't in this round either.

 

[Brother Mike]

Of course I have to agree with Tombstone on this. Nothing about the Rapture has anything to do with the ability to fly. (Like birds) Raptor (Raptus) is Latin for taken suddenly, and Harpos used in Greek is where we get harpoon, which means snatched away. (Something like that, not opening any books for correct spelling)Though I respect greatly Christiana's and Jordan's knowledge of the word, this one is just doctrine getting in the way. The passage in EZE 13:20 has nothing to do with a Rapture. It is something told that makes people sad if you keep reading the whole passage. This does not even line up. If someone were to disprove a Rapture, Eze 13:20 is not it. We have to be careful in "What" we want to find in the Word. Everyone is guilty of this. I mean everyone.As for the Bible code, I agree with Christina. I don't discount it, but it is very suspect to interpetation. I don't think it was meant for the Body of Christ to fuse about, as it's not for us.Jesus Is Lord

 

[WhiteKnuckle]

ROFLOL! How in the world did this topic become a rapture debate? Anyway we can get back on track here?

 

[Brother Mike]

How in the world did this topic become a rapture debate? Anyway we can get back on track here?

It's one of those push my button topics. Some are so obsessed with the anti rapture theory, they actually treat it in higher regards than necessary. It's like those folks that tell everyone that if you don't speak in tongues your not really saved (No Spirit of God in you.) It is a major doctrine and topic for those people. They have scripture and scripture they think they have to prove their belief, even to taking scripture out of context, as we have in this case. Focused on one scripture out of the whole chapter, and completely not understanding what the words mean. Because of the reaction you can get out of some people, you wonder what spirit is motivating them. Now back to the bible code. ........ sigh..... I have lost interest in the bible code. Throw up the word Rapture though, and you got a good discussion going. Jesus Is Lord

 

[Christina]

[quote name='Brother Mike;72861]It's one of those push my button topics. Some are so obsessed with the anti rapture theory' date=' they actually treat it in higher regards than necessary. It's like those folks that tell everyone that if you don't speak in tongues your not really saved (No Spirit of God in you.) It is a major doctrine and topic for those people. They have scripture and scripture they think they have to prove their belief, even to taking scripture out of context, as we have in this case. Focused on one scripture out of the whole chapter, and completely not understanding what the words mean. Because of the reaction you can get out of some people, you wonder what spirit is motivating them. Now back to the bible code. ........ sigh..... I have lost interest in the bible code. Throw up the word Rapture though, and you got a good discussion going. Jesus Is Lord[/QUOTE'] With good reason it leads right to taking the Mark of the beast its Satans doctrinal lie ... It will be the very cause of the majority of our Christian brothers and sisters taking the Mark and following the wrong Chrst have you not read it yourself that we are not to be the first taken ... The bible never speaks of any pre trib taking any where ... The subject of 1 thess is where are the dead .... 2 nd Thess was written to correct the misunderstanding of 1 Thess. The subject of 2 Thess. is the gathering to the Lord not 1 Thess.

 

[Brother Mike]

Sounds Good Christina!!!!That sounds a lot better than the version of Ezekiel 13:20 you and Jordan gave. I was getting worried there for a second in how you two were correlating that scripture with a Rapture doctrine, when the Scripture was talking of something completely different. I have only seen SOUND understanding of scripture from you. Thess does speak of the end times, so were on the same page there. I am not real clear how your looking at it though, but that is Ok. It is not that big of a deal. I also don't see a correlation between those that believe in some Rapture Doctrine as being feed a lie from Satan and those that do not believe in a Rapture Doctrine. There are good arguements on both sides, I don't think any side will go with Satan though.Luk 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man. Jesus talked of being counted worthy to ESCAPE these things that shall come to pass (Not come to pass yet.) However above he talked about this.Luk 21:26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. Here we see something going on in earth that seems to trouble lots of folks. Something very noticable. Looking down a verse or two.Luk 21:34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. Now it looks like it's not so noticeable. ??????????????????????2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Ah, were told not to worry about it again if being counted worthy to escape I suppose. So, in any case, Rapture or no Rapture. It is clear that if you stick close to Jesus, you are not to trouble yourself with this.(My take on it)God bless.Jesus Is Lord.

 

[WhiteKnuckle]

So, it seems... The consensus is... Most of those who believe in Rapture also believe in Bible codes? Now, on to Rapture..... I don't think those who believe in rapture are doomed to take the mark of the beast, and I don't think that it's dangerous exactly. If someone has Jesus, it doesn't matter if they believe Rapture or not. The Holy Spirit will lead you into all truths and comfort you. So, that said.... If Bible codes go along with the majority of Pre-tribbers, then we should change this topic subject. Just from my observation and my thoughts,, Bible codes are not from God, and are merely mans way of trying to make themselves a Prophet, without the will of God. The other doctrines that seem to fit along these categories is,, Rapture. Rapture is a self comforting idea. The tribulations don't sound great, and it's a great fear that many have. To think that even a believer in Jesus will have to suffer for it,, to some is unbearable. Some who believe in Rapture accuse those who don't of calling God a liar, and saying that you aren't saved because the Rapture doctrine isn't revealed to you from the Word of God. That means the Gospel is hidden from you. Are we saying that this also leads to the Bible Codes, and Picture Codes? If someone being of the mind frame to have "secret" knowledge of the scriptures, and that makes them a Prophet, it would also go to say, that if you see rapture in the scriptures, then that proves you're saved, because rapture is supposed to be part of the revelation that comes from God when a person becomes saved. Also, leading to the mind set that if you don't have physical signs of the Holy Spirit dwelling in you, that you're not saved. Are all these connected to one and the same? You have to speak in tongues or your not saved, You have to believe in Rapture or your not saved, If you speak against the Bible code you're not saved, Because if you speak against anyone who does any of the above, you are a false teacher and a false prophet,,, You are one of the scoffers the bible talked about,, And, by you not agreeing, you are hating the prophecy of God, and calling Him a liar, and you are going against the Prophets and the Word of God, and are thus doomed because of it. Is this what we're saying with this?

 

[Tombstone]

People wonder how this became a Rapture thread? Simple, someone claimed that Ez 13:20 spoke directly about the rapture, and I chose to point out that I do not see the case. Still don't.When you read it in context with the previous two verses, it becomes clearer:"And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Woe to the women that sew pillows to all armholes, and make kerchiefs upon the head of every stature to hunt souls! Will ye hunt the souls of my people, and will ye save the souls alive that come unto you?And will ye pollute me among my people for handfuls of barley and for pieces of bread, to slay the souls that should not die, and to save the souls alive that should not live, by your lying to my people that hear your lies?Wherefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly." -- Ez. 13: 18-20"Pillows" is speaking specifically about charms, bands, amulets, etc. The NAS and NIV call them "magic bands and magic charms."I still do not see the connection. "Some who believe in Rapture accuse those who don't of calling God a liar, and saying that you aren't saved because the Rapture doctrine isn't revealed to you from the Word of God. That means the Gospel is hidden from you." -- WhiteKnuckle-- While I do believe you 100%, I have yet to meet anyone who believes in the Rapture to say that. I can attest, from this BB alone, that there is great overt hostility to those that believe in the Rapture.The current Rapture thread is tame and respectful (regardless of the confrontational tone the title takes), but if you search the older discussions on the topic on this very BB, there is outright hostility and condescension towards those that believe it.

 

[WhiteKnuckle]

yeah, I've seen some of them. There's a few that I know that condemn those who don't go along with rapture. At least with those few they also believe in other things, that don't seem scriptural. I've seen heated arguments over this. I'm kinda disapointed that this topic turned to yet another rapture debate. It amazes me no matter how many times someone states these simple facts,, we still get people that argue against it. Here's my opinion. There is no Rapture, and no scripture backs it up.However, I am open to the possibility of being wrong.None the less...If there is a Rapture,, Great! No one is complaining then.If there isn't a Rapture,,, Too bad. Are the pre-tribbers prepaired to face the fact that they were wrong if there is no rapture? The biggest point of how any of this is wrong Is the condemnation ofothers who don't agree on small doctrinal issues that have nothing to do with the salvation of ones soul. No where in the bible does it say you have to believe in anything other than Jesus Christ dying and rising from the grave for our sins. In order to be saved that's the requirement. Also,, If someone is a rapture believer, and they end up in the tribulations, they will know exactly what is going on, and they will know at that point there isn't a rapture. The Lord will show them. There's no chance that the Rapture doctrine is set out to harm believers, or is it escapist on their parts. Their acceptance of rapture ideaology wont bring them to their doom. Only disappointment. But, those of us who expect what to expect, will God willing, be there to help them! I'm through participating in this particular thread. We all apparently don't know enough about Bible Codes to discuss it. I've made up my mind that they are not from God. Thanks for the replies. Blessings to you!