Are Christians Sinners?

[Eternally Grateful]

Those verses apply not to Jews, but to all people who have the Faith of Abraham.

Romans 2:28-29 NKJV - "For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God."

We must have the same Faith that Abraham had BEFORE he was physically circumcised. Why? Because his physical circumcision is demonstrative of his Spiritual Circumcision. This is what the ENTIRE Bible revolves around. Below I use the NLT because it makes the Scriptures ultra-clear. That said, use your own translation of choice for the passages below . . . they're all good (even the Catholic and JW Bibles speak of this Plan very, very clearly).

Romans 4:12 NLT - "And Abraham is also the spiritual father of those who have been circumcised, but only if they have the same kind of faith Abraham had before he was circumcised."
Galatians 3:9, 14 NLT - "So all who put their faith in Christ share the same blessing Abraham received because of his faith. ... 14 Through Christ Jesus, God has blessed the Gentiles with the same blessing he promised to Abraham, so that we who are believers might receive the promised Holy Spirit through faith."

These passages are showing the True Gospel, but few are aware of this Plan that Paul so clearly writes out.

Again, disagree with you

as paul said in Romans 11. He is not done with Israel

 

[Behold]

Cause I'm sort of confused about this. Anybody and everybody who isn't Jesus sins,.. but yet since we are all saved by grace and the blood of Christ, does that mean we can't actually be called sinners since God no longer looks at our sin? Then again, we still need to repent whenever we do sin so which is it? Since murders are still murders even if they've felt remorse for it and have been forgiven for it afterwards.

God only and always defines you as a born again Saint..... a born again Spirit.
The Grace of God defines you as : "the righteousness of GOD.... in Christ".

Thats the eternal definition of who you are...and who you remain, if you are born again..

If you are not born again, if you are just water baptized for example, then you are found here.. John 14:6

==================================================

How to correctly understand who you are, if you are born again......

=Well, its like this Reader........ the born again, get a NEW BODY.. in the Rapture or after you die.
Why is that?
Why is that ????

Because a "New Creation in Christ" has to have a new one, as the old one, is the wrong one.
Understand?

So, you are defined by God, according to WHOM is getting that new Body., and that person, is not a sinner.
That person is a "new CREATION"< made so by the HOLY SPIRIT.

Remember, God does not define you by your behavior, ...He defines you by becoming "One with God, IN Christ".
THis never changes, as you didnt cause it, and you can't alter it.

God DEFINES who you are, based on who you became as born again.
God did that, not you.

So.....Never define yourself as anything except "the righteousness of God IN CHRIST, or you are lying to yourself, and to others, and to God.

Thats a fact.

 

[Truther]

Unfortunately, Romans 7 does not reflect the Mind of Christ, nor does it fall in line with Paul's plea for people to model himself and his character 18 times throughout his writings. Paul was describing his former Mind of the Devil. But through the Circumcision of Christ, he was set free from that thinking and way of living, and began to live in a way that all people could model themselves after, for when they model themselves after Paul, they modeled themselves after Christ.

No, Paul was speaking of his present mind in the present tense.

He spoke of the present battle in his mind, which did not exist pre Christ....

19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

No, Paul was speaking of his present mind in the present tense.

He spoke of the present battle in his mind, which did not exist pre Christ....

19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

So how do you explain Roman 2:28-29. And how about Romans 8:6? Do you accept them?

Romans 2:28-29 NLT - "For you are not a true Jew just because you were born of Jewish parents or because you have gone through the ceremony of circumcision. 29 No, a true Jew is one whose heart is right with God. And true circumcision is not merely obeying the letter of the law; rather, it is a change of heart produced by God's Spirit. And a person with a changed heart seeks praise from God, not from people."

Above, did you read that a Truly Saved person has a Heart that has been made right by the Spirit?

Romans 8:2 KJV - "For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death."

So you're saying that Paul wasn't set free from the Law of Sin and Death after his Holy conversion? You're saying that he hadn't gone through the very Romans 12:2 Transformation that he claims a True Christian will undergo?

Okie Doke.

 

[justbyfaith]

No, Paul was speaking of his present mind in the present tense.

He spoke of the present battle in his mind, which did not exist pre Christ....

19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Romans 7:14-25 is Paul using the literary tactic of IDENTIFICATION (see 1 Corinthians 9:22) to identify himself as carnal in order that he might define carnality so that he might win the carnal person to Christ.

That he himself is not carnal should be evident by the fact that in that moment he was penning holy scripture; and therefore he was a holy man of God: not carnal but spiritual (1 Corinthians 3:1).

2Pe 1:21, For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

Romans 7:14-25 is Paul using the literary tactic of IDENTIFICATION (see 1 Corinthians 9:22) to identify himself as carnal in order that he might define carnality so that he might win the carnal person to Christ.

That he himself is not carnal should be evident by the fact that in that moment he was penning holy scripture; and therefore he was a holy man of God: not carnal but spiritual (1 Corinthians 3:1).

2Pe 1:21, For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

This is a brilliant post! You definitely taught me something quite worthy, here.

 

[Truther]

So how do you explain Roman 2:28-29. And how about Romans 8:6? Do you accept them?

Romans 2:28-29 NLT - "For you are not a true Jew just because you were born of Jewish parents or because you have gone through the ceremony of circumcision. 29 No, a true Jew is one whose heart is right with God. And true circumcision is not merely obeying the letter of the law; rather, it is a change of heart produced by God's Spirit. And a person with a changed heart seeks praise from God, not from people."

Above, did you read that a Truly Saved person has a Heart that has been made right by the Spirit?

Romans 8:2 KJV - "For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death."

So you're saying that Paul wasn't set free from the Law of Sin and Death after his Holy conversion? You're saying that he hadn't gone through the very Romans 12:2 Transformation that he claims a True Christian will undergo?

Okie Doke.

According to his flesh, correct...

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

 

[Truther]

Romans 7:14-25 is Paul using the literary tactic of IDENTIFICATION (see 1 Corinthians 9:22) to identify himself as carnal in order that he might define carnality so that he might win the carnal person to Christ.

That he himself is not carnal should be evident by the fact that in that moment he was penning holy scripture; and therefore he was a holy man of God: not carnal but spiritual (1 Corinthians 3:1).

2Pe 1:21, For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I....

23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members....

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.


I think you should try to figure out your inner man vs your carnal man a wee bit better. Paul did.

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

According to his flesh, correct...

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Ok. I hear what you're saying. So, are you saying that no one is ever Purified, Whole, and Complete? Paul says that through the Circumcision of Christ, we are, in fact, Whole and Complete. Do you deny that we are Whole and Complete? Or, do you really believe that we are still not good enough for the Lord?

Sorry if it seems like I'm putting words in your mouth. Just paraphrasing to understand.

Colossians 2:9-10 KJV - "For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power . . ."

In R7, Paul is not describing the mind of someone who is Whole and Complete, but someone who possesses no self-control . . . someone who still possesses the Sinful Nature. Peter teaches (below) that because of the Completeness in Christ, we are given the Divine Nature and therefore escape the corruption of the world. But, you believe that we remain corrupted?

Not me. My body may die as do all things, but the problem of my body is irrelevant, for Christ, Himself made it irrelevant through His one-time Sacrifice. And I thank God for that!!!

 

[Truther]

Ok. I hear what you're saying. So, are you saying that no one is ever Purified, Whole, and Complete? Paul says that through the Circumcision of Christ, we are, in fact, Whole and Complete. Do you deny that we are Whole and Complete? Or, do you really believe that we are still not good enough for the Lord?

Sorry if it seems like I'm putting words in your mouth. Just paraphrasing to understand.

Colossians 2:9-10 KJV - "For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power . . ."

In R7, Paul is not describing the mind of someone who is Whole and Complete, but someone who possesses no self-control . . . someone who still possesses the Sinful Nature. Peter teaches (below) that because of the Completeness in Christ, we are given the Divine Nature and therefore escape the corruption of the world. But, you believe that we remain corrupted?

Not me. My body may die as do all things, but the problem of my body is irrelevant, for Christ, Himself made it irrelevant through His one-time Sacrifice. And I thank God for that!!!

Paul(not me) is saying that we have been inhabited with the pure Spirit of God, which did not exterminate our carnality, but only conquered it via our permission(repentance).

The old man is dead as long as we walk in the Spirit.

If we don't walk in the Spirit, the flesh will take over.

 

[Wrangler]

Jesus being the Son of God just means He's God in human flesh. Anyways, that's sort of off topic though.

Yes, it sure is off topic. Trinitarians want "The Son of God" to mean God in human flesh but the Bible does not say that. It repeatedly says God, the Father of Jesus. That is, God in his unitarian nature. The "Holy Spirt" is not a a 3rd person/being who gives grace and peace.

May God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ give you grace and peace.
Philippians 1:2 (NLT)

All praise to God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Peter 1:3

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

Paul(not me) is saying that we have been inhabited with the pure Spirit of God, which did not exterminate our carnality, but only conquered it via our permission(repentance).

The old man is dead as long as we walk in the Spirit.

If we don't walk in the Spirit, the flesh will take over.

Okie Doke.

 

[justbyfaith]

Trinitarians want "The Son of God" to mean God in human flesh but the Bible does not say that. It repeatedly says God, the Father of Jesus.

Jhn 14:7, If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
Jhn 14:8, Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
Jhn 14:9, Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
Jhn 14:10, Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
Jhn 14:11, Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

 

[justbyfaith]

14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Again, Paul is identifying himself as carnal using a literary tactic here (see 1 Corinthians 9:22).

 

[Truther]

Paul(not me) is saying that we have been inhabited with the pure Spirit of God, which did not exterminate our carnality, but only conquered it via our permission(repentance).

Again, Paul is identifying himself as carnal using a literary tactic here (see 1 Corinthians 9:22).

'Literary tactics"?

Oh boy.

No, he is saying "I am carnal, sold unto sin".

He was not playing "catch phrase".

 

[justbyfaith]

'Literary tactics"?

Oh boy.

No, he is saying "I am carnal, sold unto sin".

He was not playing "catch phrase".

In Romans 7:14-25, Paul was doing what he said he normally did, in 1 Corinthians 9:22.

 

[Truther]

In Romans 7:14-25, Paul was doing what he said he normally did, in 1 Corinthians 9:22.

You need to take the Bible a wee bit more literal.

 

[justbyfaith]

You need to take the Bible a wee bit more literal.

I take it according to 1 Corinthians 2:13 (kjv).

btw, very literally.

 

[Truther]

I take it according to 1 Corinthians 2:13 (kjv).

btw, very literally.

Do you take Acts 2:38 literally?...


38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

 

[justbyfaith]

Do you take Acts 2:38 literally?...


38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Yes, I do.