Are Doctrines affected by Modern Versions

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Hobie

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It closes the special revelation of God. Revelation is the future, therefore you cannot add to the future. We do not need anything outside of the Bible. It is the faith delivered once to the saints.

I think you misspoke, as even Jerome and the Reformers saw what Revelation and Daniel revealed what would happen during their time, what it unveiled in the timeline of Empires and history corroborates, and how the Papacy was the Antichrist power foretold.
Luther and English Apocalypticism: The Role of Luther in Three Seventeenth-Century Commentaries on the Book of Revelation — {essays in history}
https://www.whitehorsemedia.com/the-antichrist-were-the-protestant-reformers-correct/
Futurism and Preterism
You need to open your eyes and ears and see what is plainly revealed by the prophecies of Revelation and Daniel also.
 

GerhardEbersoehn

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Have God then closed the lines of communication between God and men?

This is no question; it's your method to state your, view against another's. You believe God has not <<closed the lines of communication between God and men>> as far as authentic and authoritative SCRIPTURE is concerned. But you don't say it. Who would not question the honesty of your lubricious 'question'?
 

amadeus

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This is no question; it's your method to state your, view against another's. You believe God has not <<closed the lines of communication between God and men>> as far as authentic and authoritative SCRIPTURE is concerned. But you don't say it. Who would not question the honesty of your lubricious 'question'?
Honesty? Do you speak and understand English so differently in South Africa? Or perhaps it is only you that misunderstand my purpose or meaning or...? I was simply stating my case. I don't see why you would question my honesty.

Well I believe I was communicating with one person. While he and I may not agree, I believe we were understanding one another. Is that not important? Others reading may also have understood. From your words it appears that you also understood my meaning even though you believe I could improve on it. I am glad I am communicating my ideas... even to those that would like me to change.

Strange that I have just this moment come here from involvement on another thread which was also about communication.
 
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Hobie

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It closes the special revelation of God. Revelation is the future, therefore you cannot add to the future. We do not need anything outside of the Bible. It is the faith delivered once to the saints.
Much of it has happened and we are past most of it, so need to rethink that..
 

Hobie

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Only if you wish to fantasize. The bulk of the prophecies in Revelation are for the future.
No, they have been happening in parallel with many of the prophecies in Daniel. You have to look at history and you clearly can see the events, here is a good study:
“And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them 251 that dwell in heaven.” Revelation 13:4-6.

Prophecies are like a puzzle, God gives us clues, and when we put them together, carefully following what the Bible says the clues mean, we can see what He is telling us. These verses give more ‘clues’. They worshipped the ‘dragon’; Pagan leaders were worshipped as gods. Their head priest was called Pontifex Maximus, the ‘Great Bridge Builder’, this name was passed on to the Roman emperors and later, when one of the Roman Emperors decided that he did not feel right to take this title, as it claimed control of the souls of men in life and in death, the Bishop of Rome snapped it up and the popes have been called ‘Pontiffs’ ever since. Also Satan, who is also the Dragon, is worshipped either directly or indirectly by all Pagan religions. So we see a power that had been worshipped, giving authority to another power, which is also worshipped, that is Papal Rome. ‘Who is like unto the beast’? The kings of Europe during the dark ages well knew the power of the Papacy— they were afraid to oppose her; in fact, once, when a king had offended the pope, the poor king stood barefoot and hatless for days outside the pope’s palace in the wintertime, so he could beg forgiveness from the proud pontiff. How different from the meek and lowly Jesus, Who washed the feet of even Judas.

“And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.” Revelation 13:5, 6.

‘Given unto him…A mouth speaking blasphemies’; to have a ‘mouth’ in prophecy means to be able to pass laws. The papal power passed many wicked and blasphemous laws during her time ruling the world. Ordering the Bible to be burned and anyone who loved it to be burned also, was one of these laws. ‘Forty and two months’; this is another reference to the 1260-year prophecy. The Beast, Image and Mark 252 Daniel and the Revelation He ‘blasphemes God’s name; In the Bible, God’s Name represents His character—what He is really like; the Papacy, through her ideas of purgatory and eternal hell fire, made millions look upon God as a monster instead of the loving Father He really is. ‘God’s Tabernacle’; By setting up human priests and telling everyone they could only be saved through the church and its ceremonies, Rome spoke against the ministry of Jesus for us in the Heavenly Sanctuary. The church leaders stood like a wall stopping the people from coming straight to Jesus. ‘Them that dwell in heaven’; there are so many weird and wicked stories told to the people by the Roman church that say false things about angels, Jesus, God, the Holy Spirit and so on. They also tell the people that all these old dead church leaders are now ‘saints’ in heaven and the people should pray to them. To pray to the dead in any form—or offer gifts to them—is to worship demons. “For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.” Ecclesiastes 9:5.

“And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. If any man have an ear, let him hear. He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.” Revelation 13:7-10

Here again we have more clues, so many in fact that there just is not ANY other power on earth that this can be—but Papal Rome. Here again we see it persecuting and killing the true followers of Jesus during the 1260 years of rule. ‘Power was given him’; during the 1260 years, this wicked power was allowed to pretty much do what it 253 wanted to do. Satan can never say to God and the universe that his religion would have worked, but God didn’t give him a chance to prove it. No, indeed, for 1260 years that religion ruled and the effects on the world and on people and nations are written in history and in the books of heaven with letters of blood.

“And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. If any man have an ear, let him hear.” Revelation 13:7-9

Then we are told that ALL on earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the Book of Life. This is very solemn; unless you have really given your whole heart to Jesus and serve Him only, you WILL end up worshipping the Beast—there is no other choice. It is now that we better decide for the right—the time will come later that we will no longer have the choice. ‘Captivity and sword’; Here is a warning from God— too bad the haughty popes did not spend much time reading the Bible, they could have been warned what would happen to them if they kept doing their wicked and cruel deeds.

“He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.” Revelation 13:10

This is also giving us more clues; for centuries, Rome threw the people of God into prisons, she sent armies with swords to kill them and drove them into hidden places of the earth; then in 1798, armies were sent against her and a military power threw the pope into prison. In the upheavals during the French Revolution, the Roman priests and leaders were slaughtered by the people, just as formerly the church had slaughtered God’s children. The people of God did read the Bible, during those 1260 years of cruel persecution; many were encouraged by God’s promise that the persecuting power would have an end. This did give them patience and faith."...https://www.bible-sabbath.com/Sabbath-Sunday/DRall.pdf
 

GerhardEbersoehn

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Hobie said:
Because they are predisposed to mans 'doctrines' and 'interpretation', rather than the truth. They use gnostic changes and basically corrupt Alexandrian text to say the least for most of these 'modern' versions.
This has been proven false many times over.

Absolutely! And also and further, proves itself, false, with typically vague generalisations and no detailed, one by one actual INCIDENCES which could show <<gnostic changes and basically corrupt Alexandrian text>>.
Nevertheless at the very same time, the pro- new 'translation' critics and translators themselves, DO THE SAME what Hobie said: .

There simply has been scarcely if any original, properly equipped ground breaking really knowledgeable translators for the past century and more-- translators who are Christian believers before they are bible translators. In other words, the supposed distanced from Faith and Grace and Salvation 'objective' approach at modern translation academies and institutions et al, in reality has been translating or translation subjectivity and often pure artistic exhibitionism-- bogus with no respect or feeling for or from genuine knowledge, for truth ESPECIALLY THE GOSPEL TRUTH.
 
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APAK

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Lets compare one verse, 1 John 4:3:

NIV - but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.

RSV - and every spirit which does not confess Jesus is not of God. This is the spirit of antichrist, of which you heard that it was coming, and now it is in the world already.

ASV and every spirit that confesseth not Jesus is not of God: and this is the spirit of the antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it cometh; and now it is in the world already.

KJV - And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

We see here in 1 John 4:3 that the NIV takes out the whole point in the text, "NIV leaves out the fact that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh--yet another swipe at the divinity of Christ." https://mundall.com/erik/NIV-KJV.htm

I'm a little late in commenting on your thread although I do have something to say.

Most so-called Bible-toting Christians already practice false doctrines and they don’t even know it.

Their doctrinal beliefs are already reflected in scripture today and are clearly not in keeping with the doctrines of Christ, his disciples and apostles.

This is a big deal!

And then for these same people to argue and become overly obsessed with scripture changes of one translator with another, who are truly their brethren, entrenched with the same false doctrines is ludicrous.

This squabbling over the crumbs of changes, additions and deletions in scripture is for a waste of time and energy and of little consequence and impact to their common shared false beliefs.

If there is a spiritual deception underfoot then this has to be one of them.

This is a very serious subject to me. As long as I know of all scripture changes altered to project false teachings since the 2nd century AD, not of Christ, then I’m at peace, and in truth.

Your title of this thread would be better served with this title: "How False doctrines have changed scripture today"

Bless you,

APAK
 

Hobie

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Hobie said:
Because they are predisposed to mans 'doctrines' and 'interpretation', rather than the truth. They use gnostic changes and basically corrupt Alexandrian text to say the least for most of these 'modern' versions.


Absolutely! And also and further, proves itself, false, with typically vague generalisations and no detailed, one by one actual INCIDENCES which could show <<gnostic changes and basically corrupt Alexandrian text>>.
Nevertheless at the very same time, the pro- new 'translation' critics and translators themselves, DO THE SAME what Hobie said: .

There simply has been scarcely if any original, properly equipped ground breaking really knowledgeable translators for the past century and more-- translators who are Christian believers before they are bible translators. In other words, the supposed distanced from Faith and Grace and Salvation 'objective' approach at modern translation academies and institutions et al, in reality has been translating or translation subjectivity and often pure artistic exhibitionism-- bogus with no respect or feeling for or from genuine knowledge, for truth ESPECIALLY THE GOSPEL TRUTH.
Well, not so quick as the Alexandrian codices are the reason if not main cause then a good part of all the confusion, and they make up the corrupted stream of text that is coming into our modern versions. If you look you will find there are only 2 streams of Bible versions, the true text of the Textus Receptus (Majority Text) on which the Authorized version and other tried and true text is based, and those which picked up the Alexandrian manuscripts (Minority Text) which have been shown to have deleted and changed many parts of the text and are unreliable. The Textus Receptus or Majority Text in which we find the vast majority of copies, has been attacked with changes, amendments, deletions, and what can only be seen attempts to diminish Gods truth. Many of the new modern versions such as the NIV and others are based on a few corrupted manuscripts which form the basis of the Minority Text, many which can be traced back to their original source, the Alexandrian codices. From what I have come across it seems that the Majority Text (Textus Receptus), also called the Byzantine Text is based on the vast majority of manuscripts still in existence. The manuscripts were brought together by many were faithful to its text such as Lucian, Erasmus, Stephanus, Beza and the Elzevir brothers to form the text known as Textus Receptus. When the Protestant Reformers decided to translate the scriptures directly from Greek into the languages of Europe, they selected Textus Receptus as their foundation Greek document and for good reason. So many of the new versions are based on the corrupted manuscripts and deletions which form the basis of the Minority Text, that its easy to pick one up and not notice. So how are Bible doctrines affected by these modern versions based on the Minority Text, lets take a look at what these changes do in this study I came across which states with Matthew:

Matthew 1:25 "her firstborn" is omitted. That Jesus was her firstborn indicates that Mary and Joseph had relations after the birth of Jesus and that others were born of her. The omission here seeks to add credence to the false doctrine of the Roman Catholic Church concerning the perpetual virginity of Mary. The Bible is clear that Jesus had brothers and sisters.

Matthew 5:22 "without a cause" is removed. In the Sermon on the Mount the Lord warned of judgment for those who were angry with a brother without a cause. Should this change be accepted everyone who is angry with his brother may be judged. (The effect is to bring Jesus into judgment for failing to observe his own words in Mark 3:5 "5 And when he had looked round about on them with anger, being grieved for the hardness of their hearts, he saith unto the man, Stretch forth thine hand. And he stretched it out: and his hand was restored whole as the other." Such is contrary to the doctrine of the sinlessness of Christ.)

Matthew 6:4, 6, 18 "openly" is out. It is a Bible Doctrine that Christian work done unnoticed for the glory of the Lord will one day be rewarded openly (Col. 3:4).

Matthew 6:13 "For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever, Amen" is deleted. This ascription of praise to "Our Father" is found in 491 out of 500 existing manuscripts.

Matthew 8:29 "Jesus" is left out. The demons bore witness to the fact that Jesus was the Son of God. It was an identification of Jesus (in humanity) as the Son of God (in Deity). It affects the doctrine of the Person of Christ.

Matthew 9:8 "marvelled" is changed to "were afraid." There is no reason to believe that the people were afraid because Jesus healed the sick of the palsy. There is every reason for them to marvel at the miracle.

Matthew 9:13 "to repentance" is left out. The Bible doctrine of repentance is one that men would like to do away with. God requires that in order to be saved one must truly repent (Acts 17:30; 2 Peter 3:9). The word means "a change of mind" and there must be that concerning God, sin and salvation. Men think that sin does not really separate them from God--they must change their mind about that. Men think that salvation is by works--they must change their mind about that. There is nothing more evident today than the absence of repentance among those who are professing to be converted.

Matthew 15:8 "draweth nigh unto me with their mouth" is left out. According to Isaiah 29:13 it belongs in because Isaiah prophesied of these hypocrites exactly that way.

Matthew 16:2,3 "When it is evening ... the signs of the times" is all omitted. The Pharisees and Sadducees came looking for a sign and the signs were all around them. Jesus called them hypocrites because they could not tell the signs of the times.

Matthew 17:21 Whole verse is left out. Power with God is to be had by prayer and fasting. That is a fundamental truth of the Word of God.

Matthew 18:2 "Jesus" is left out. This is done many times by the corrupt Alexandrian Greek Text of Westcott and Hort. The MAJORITY Text continuously places the word "Jesus" in the narrative with the definite article preceding it. Thus it places him in the center of things and in command. It is doctrinally unsound for such prominence to be discarded for the word "he."

Matthew 18:11 The whole verse is omitted. This verse tells us that man is lost, that he needs to be saved, and that the Son of man is the one who can do that. The doctrine of salvation through Jesus Christ is affected by this change.

Matthew 18:15 "against thee" is omitted. This omission sets us up as watchdogs over others and if one sins we are to go and tell him. Such is not the teaching of Scripture. Were we to declare every sin we would be constantly busy (bodies) judging the actions and motives of everyone. This change is a very bad error.

Matthew 18:35 "their trespasses" is omitted. Same thought as mentioned in 18:15.

Matthew 19:9 "and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery" is removed. This is a very important doctrinal change which concerns divorce and remarriage. A man who divorces his wife and remarries commits adultery, and also the man who marries the divorced wife commits adultery.

Matthew 19:16,17 "Good" before Master is omitted. In addition to that, the phrase "Why callest thou me good?" is changed to "Why askest thou me concerning the good?" Good Master is correct and Jesus responded to show the young man that only one was good and that one was God. The conclusion should have been obvious. Since Jesus was good he was necessarily God. The omission and change destroys the intended testimony to the Deity of Christ.

Matthew 20:16 "for many be called, but few chosen" is left out. The Lord would have us know that many are called to inherit eternal life, but few are chosen by virtue of believing in Christ. It is a Bible doctrine that God wants all men to be saved but few will come to Christ for salvation.

Matthew 21:12 "of God" is out. Jesus, who was God in the flesh, came to his own temple and said, "My house shall be called the house of prayer." It was the temple of God and the God of the temple was there.

Matthew 22:30 "of God" is removed. There are good angels and fallen angels. The believers, in the resurrection, will be like the good angels "of God" who alone are in heaven.

Matthew 23:8 "Master" is changed to "teacher." There are many teachers but only one master. The change here takes away the pre- eminence that God intends for his Son.

Matthew 25:13 "wherein the Son of man cometh" is omitted. The warning to watch is tied to the imminent return of the Lord. The omission here does away with the doctrine of the Lord's second advent.

It just goes on and on where the changes and omissions were purposely done to take away the divinity of Christ, confuse the issue, or totally wipe it out and keep it from the reader as this is the corruption of the Alexandrian Text or the Minority Text, and was a reason those codices were little used as they were avoided by believers from ancient times. They knew what was being done and we see it in Pauls warning..

2 Corinthians 2:17
For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.f
 
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Hobie

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Some have taken out whole chapters or missing whole books, or worse. So its not just a 'different translation'....

In the new RSV/ NIV they just take out what they dont like or wholesale changed or text is missing so its message or meaning it gave has just been wiped out, Take look in your version at Rev 1:11, which I have always memorized as: "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end." Here is the 1599 Geneva Bible...
11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, that first and that last: and that which thou seest write in a book, and send it unto the seven Churches which are in Asia, unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

And Young's Literal Translation
11 `I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last;' and, `What thou dost see, write in a scroll, and send to the seven assemblies that [are] in Asia; to Ephesus, and to Smyrna, and to Pergamos, and to Thyatira, and to Sardis, and to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea.'

That phrase is missing from the NIV, ASV, ESV, NRSV and most of these 'modern' versions.
 

Netchaplain

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That of course is a false statement.
Amen Davy! One of the various places the Lord Jesus' deity is diminished is Jhn 3:13: "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but He that came down from heaven, even the Son of Man which is in heaven."

This passage demonstrates the Lord Jesus' omnipresence, being in heaven while on earth. The corrupt manuscripts omitted the phrase "even the Son of Man which is in heaven," which does not represent His deity of omnipresence.

Nearly all the modern versions, except for the NKJV and others from the Majority Text, have nearly the same total and partial omissions, because they were all translated from the same three corrupt manuscript sources (Vaticanus, Sinaitcus and Alexandrinus codices. It has been deemed that most of these corruptions were the works of Gnostics, and is why the early church rejected them and would not copy them.

They were abandoned from 500AD to 1881AD.
 

Davy

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Amen Davy! One of the various places the Lord Jesus' deity is diminished is Jhn 3:13: "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but He that came down from heaven, even the Son of Man which is in heaven."

This passage demonstrates the Lord Jesus' omnipresence, being in heaven while on earth. The corrupt manuscripts omitted the phrase "even the Son of Man which is in heaven," which does not represent His deity of omnipresence.

Nearly all the modern versions, except for the NKJV and others from the Majority Text, have nearly the same total and partial omissions, because they were all translated from the same three corrupt manuscript sources (Vaticanus, Sinaitcus and Alexandrinus codices. It has been deemed that most of these corruptions were the works of Gnostics, and is why the early church rejected them and would not copy them.

They were abandoned from 500AD to 1881AD.

Yes, and the descendants of those early Gnostics are still here today working against Christ.

I will be so glad when Lord Jesus returns, and shuts them up. And I wonder at times just how many of them are going to bow the knee before us when we have to correct their understanding in Christ's future Millennial reign (Rev.3:9).
 
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Truther

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Amen Davy! One of the various places the Lord Jesus' deity is diminished is Jhn 3:13: "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but He that came down from heaven, even the Son of Man which is in heaven."

This passage demonstrates the Lord Jesus' omnipresence, being in heaven while on earth. The corrupt manuscripts omitted the phrase "even the Son of Man which is in heaven," which does not represent His deity of omnipresence.

Nearly all the modern versions, except for the NKJV and others from the Majority Text, have nearly the same total and partial omissions, because they were all translated from the same three corrupt manuscript sources (Vaticanus, Sinaitcus and Alexandrinus codices. It has been deemed that most of these corruptions were the works of Gnostics, and is why the early church rejected them and would not copy them.

They were abandoned from 500AD to 1881AD.
The passage says the son of man was in heaven and on earth.

This is Jesus saying he was a human(Mary's son) from the foundation of the world.

He was saying Mary's son(Jesus) was there at the creation of man in Gen, as the pattern for the first Adam.

He was from the beginning as a man before time began.

Heaven is timeless and earth is time.

God can do that.