Are Protestants "saved? "

[Marymog]

Your line of reasoning can be used for any church building

so again. I think we need to use something more reputable would you not agree?

It comes down to this EG. Only one can be right. Your theory suggest otherwise.

 

[Marymog]

They were foundation stones

but Jesus was still the foundation. Not peter or the other apostles. They were built on Christ

remember Paul had to publicly rebuke peter

Hi EG,

This is the 3rd post of mine you have responded to that you have played dodge ball. You are good at it...
It's a simple question:

Do you not believe that Jesus gave them (the Apostles) that (authority to make binding decisions on all Christians) authority?

 

[Marymog]

What I am seeing here in answer to the original question, are Protestants saved? As far as the Catholics are concerned, is no. Protestants are not saved according to Catholics because they do not belong to the so called true church. Seems nothing has changed. It wasn't that long ago that the Catholic Church burnt people at the stake in order to convince them to repent and become Catholic. The references I hear in relation to Jesus seem to me to be no more than footnotes. It's all about that City/state called Vatican. And it's about submitting your eternal destiny to a system of man made rituals and second hand pagan myths and legends.
Face it non Catholics. Whether you identify as Protestant or not, the Catholics here, Mungo, Marymog, BoL, Yeheren, epostle, do not believe you are Christian. And their grounds for this is your rejection of papal authority. The current ecumenical movement... The one that suggests Catholicism has changed and now thinks and teaches Bible truth... Is a total sham and a lie. Do not be sucked in.

Timothy is a pastoral letter from Paul to Timothy. IN CONTEXT the passage is telling him that he hopes to be back shortly (VS14) Paul says since I am being delayed I am writing you (because I can't be there to TELL you) so that you may know how you should behave in the house of God. Paul is telling them they are IN the house of God. Soooooo CONTEXT matters.

So I ask you again Brakelite: What house are they in?

 

[Joseph77]

Does God prefer one religious bent to another? Or is that about us?

As in.."I can believe anything I want based on a verse taken out of context"

No one can know all there is to know.

Does the Creator Almighty deceive His children, no.
Does the Creator Almighty tell His children the truth? Yes.
If a human father is asked by his son for a fish, will he give him a stone ?
If human sinful fathers can do good for their sons, how much more does God do for His children !

If God reveals to little children the truth, as Jesus says, who will dare oppose God ! ?

 

[Brakelite]

I have been a member of various communities of online believers for maybe 20 or so years now. I discovered them when i first discovered the internet, and was brave enough to buy my first computer and dive in.
In that time, I have discovered two very important things. First, I have noticed that many, even a great many, Christians who in their own eyes are theologically correct, "who understand the truth and desire everyone else to understand the truth just as they do", are often some of the more obnoxious members of those communities. " knowing truth" I have discovered does not always equate with true undefiled religion. They are impatient... Rude... Insulting... And generally a pain to talk to.
The second thing I have discovered is that I am no exception. I too can skip into that "I am right and have the truth and you are wrong and believe a lie" mode... For what? To gloat? To feel better about myself... Better than others?
@Marymog Im not interested in arguing with you further. I don't think it benefits either of us. Have you read all the posts on this thread? Numbers 306,307,308 of mine reveal my perspective. I'm not arguing over theology with you. But history has revealed who I should trust. Your church's own writings reveal who I should trust.
Christianity isn't about being right or wrong. The gospel isn't about right or wrong. Don't get me wrong, truth matters. I didn't come into this thread to discuss theology. I simply wanted to comment on the historical fact that in the eyes of the Catholic system, going back over centuries, Protestants are not saved, for the very reasons you are currently attempting to prove. That the Catholic Church is the only true church. And Mary, that isn't what the gospel is about.
The greatest deception of the human mind in Christ's day was that a mere assent to the truth constitutes righteousness. In all human experience a theoretical knowledge of the truth has been proved to be insufficient for the saving of the soul. It does not bring forth the fruits of righteousness. A jealous regard for what is termed theological truth often accompanies a hatred of genuine truth as made manifest in life. The darkest chapters of history are burdened with the record of crimes committed by bigoted religionists. The Pharisees claimed to be children of Abraham, and boasted of their possession of the oracles of God; yet these advantages did not preserve them from selfishness, malignity, greed for gain, and the basest hypocrisy. They thought themselves the greatest religionists of the world, but their so-called orthodoxy led them to crucify the Lord of glory.
The same danger still exists. Many take it for granted that they are Christians, simply because they subscribe to certain theological tenets. But they have not brought the truth into practical life. They have not believed and loved it, therefore they have not received the power and grace that come through sanctification of the truth. Men may profess faith in the truth; but if it does not make them sincere, kind, patient, forbearing, heavenly-minded, it is a curse to its possessors, and through their influence it is a curse to the world. DA 309.2 - DA 309.3

 

[Enoch111]

Do you not believe that Jesus gave them (the Apostles) that (authority to make binding decisions on all Christians) authority?

Christ did give His apostles that authority, but with the passing of the apostles, that authority also passed on. Elders in the apostolic churches did NOT have any such authority.

As it relates to the papacy, that so-called authority is TOTALLY BOGUS. The papacy has been responsible for more crimes than the Mafia. At least the Mafia did not hide under a religious garb. And if the apostle Peter were to be sent to earth to clean house, he would cleanse the Vatican of all pretenders to Peter's so-called *throne*.

 

[Brakelite]

The papacy has been responsible for more crimes than the Mafia.

And the mafia paid tithes to the Vatican.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Hi EG,

Hmmmm......I asked you ONE question and your response is to ask me THREE questions???

I will answer your three questions when you answer my one question:

Would you agree that any church that started thru or after the Reformation (500 years or younger) can be removed as being part of "the true foundation"?

Patient Mary

I believe the church started on pentecost, when Jesus sent the Holy Spirit and the body of Christ was formed

now can you answer mine

 

[Eternally Grateful]

It comes down to this EG. Only one can be right. Your theory suggest otherwise.

it so es down to this

there are three gospels being taught throughout all who claim to be the church

1. salvation through faith plus works

2. salvation by grace through faith, and those who have faith are sanctified by God and he completes in them what he started

3. salvation by saying some sinners prayer, but you can live your life however you want, faith is not true faith, it is mere belief, even demons believe

sadly many many denominations teach the first one, including the Roman Catholic Church (yes, your not the only one)

quite a few denominations teach the second

I will be honest, I know a few people who teach the last, but not sure I know of any denominations

your right in one thing, only one of these gospels is right,

your wrong in the theory your church is the only one who is right

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Hi EG,

This is the 3rd post of mine you have responded to that you have played dodge ball. You are good at it...
It's a simple question:

Do you not believe that Jesus gave them (the Apostles) that (authority to make binding decisions on all Christians) authority?

No, I am making a point you refuse and have refused since the begining to acknowledge

let’s okay your game

did God give (your words) THEM? (Not Peter only)

yes, as foundation stones

god is the STONE who gave them the authority, it was built on HiM, not them

 

[Episkopos]

I have been a member of various communities of online believers for maybe 20 or so years now. I discovered them when u first discovered the internet, and was brave enough to buy my first computer and dive in.
In that time, I have discovered two very important things. First, I have noticed that many, even a great many, Christians who in their own eyes are theologically correct, "who understands the truth and desire everyone else to understand the truth just as they do", can be done if the more obnoxious members of those communities. Knowing the truth I have discovered does not always equate with true undefiled religion. They are impatient... Rude... Insulting... And generally a pain to talk to.
The second thing I have discovered is that I am no exception. I too can skip into that "I am right and have the truth and you are wrong and believe as lie" mode... For what? To gloat? To feel better about myself... Better than others?
@Marymog Im not interested in arguing with you further. I don't think it benefits either of us. Have you read all the posts on this thread? Numbers 306,307,308 of mine reveal my perspective. I'm not arguing over theology with you. But history has revealed who I should trust. Your church's own writings reveal who I should trust.
Christianity isn't about being right or wrong. The gospel isn't about right it wrong. Don't get me wrong, truth matters. I didn't come into this thread to discuss theology. I finally wanted to comment on the historical fact that I'm the eyes of the Catholic system, going back over centuries, Protestants are not saved, for the very reasons you are currently attempting to prove. That the Catholic Church is there only true church. And Mary, that isn't what the gospel is about.
The greatest deception of the human mind in Christ's day was that a mere assent to the truth constitutes righteousness. In all human experience a theoretical knowledge of the truth has been proved to be insufficient for the saving of the soul. It does not bring forth the fruits of righteousness. A jealous regard for what is termed theological truth often accompanies a hatred of genuine truth as made manifest in life. The darkest chapters of history are burdened with the record of crimes committed by bigoted religionists. The Pharisees claimed to be children of Abraham, and boasted of their possession of the oracles of God; yet these advantages did not preserve them from selfishness, malignity, greed for gain, and the basest hypocrisy. They thought themselves the greatest religionists of the world, but their so-called orthodoxy led them to crucify the Lord of glory.
The same danger still exists. Many take it for granted that they are Christians, simply because they subscribe to certain theological tenets. But they have not brought the truth into practical life. They have not believed and loved it, therefore they have not received the power and grace that come through sanctification of the truth. Men may profess faith in the truth; but if it does not make them sincere, kind, patient, forbearing, heavenly-minded, it is a curse to its possessors, and through their influence it is a curse to the world. DA 309.2 - DA 309.3

Amen. There is knowing about the truth and actually knowing (experiencing) the truth. Only the second one sets you free. And the best defense of the truth is the practice of it. What we find mostly on forums are theorists. They have adopted a pre-packaged ideology based on some bible verses that have been put together by man. No man made theology is going to work. The truth is very specific and alive. To know the truth means to live with God who is the truth.

What is truly a shame is how people get so quickly satisfied on the religious level...as if more of God were not possible. The flesh wants the minimum standard for what it perceives as salvation. After that it is just a defensive posture that says...enough of God!
How much of theology is put together as an excuse for not doing more in the way of seeking and sacrificing?

Why does exegesis sound so much like "exit Jesus"?

 

[Yehren]

What I am seeing here in answer to the original question, are Protestants saved? As far as the Catholics are concerned, is no. Protestants are not saved according to Catholics because they do not belong to the so called true church.

The Church recognizes that in many ways she is linked with those who, being baptized, are honored with the name of Christian, though they do not profess the faith in its entirety or do not preserve unity of communion with the successor of Peter. (14*) For there are many who honor Sacred Scripture, taking it as a norm of belief and a pattern of life, and who show a sincere zeal. They lovingly believe in God the Father Almighty and in Christ, the Son of God and Saviour. (15*) They are consecrated by baptism, in which they are united with Christ. They also recognize and accept other sacraments within their own Churches or ecclesiastical communities. Many of them rejoice in the episcopate, celebrate the Holy Eucharist and cultivate devotion toward the Virgin Mother of God.(16*) They also share with us in prayer and other spiritual benefits. Likewise we can say that in some real way they are joined with us in the Holy Spirit, for to them too He gives His gifts and graces whereby He is operative among them with His sanctifying power. Some indeed He has strengthened to the extent of the shedding of their blood.
FromOGMATIC CONSTITUTION ON THE CHURCH
LUMEN GENTIUM
SOLEMNLY PROMULGATED BY HIS HOLINESS
POPE PAUL VI
ON NOVEMBER 21, 1964

 

[Joseph77]

Why is an evil entity (that abomnination based in Rome) quoted here ?
It was never to be trusted, and should never be trusted.

 

[Yehren]

Why is an evil entity quoted here ?

I don't think those people are evil. They have just been trained to mindlessly hate Catholics. As you see, Catholics don't hate them. The Church sees Protestants as our brothers in Christ. Which they are.

 

[Brakelite]

The Church recognizes that in many ways she is linked with those who, being baptized, are honored with the name of Christian, though they do not profess the faith in its entirety or do not preserve unity of communion with the successor of Peter. (14*) For there are many who honor Sacred Scripture, taking it as a norm of belief and a pattern of life, and who show a sincere zeal. They lovingly believe in God the Father Almighty and in Christ, the Son of God and Saviour. (15*) They are consecrated by baptism, in which they are united with Christ. They also recognize and accept other sacraments within their own Churches or ecclesiastical communities. Many of them rejoice in the episcopate, celebrate the Holy Eucharist and cultivate devotion toward the Virgin Mother of God.(16*) They also share with us in prayer and other spiritual benefits. Likewise we can say that in some real way they are joined with us in the Holy Spirit, for to them too He gives His gifts and graces whereby He is operative among them with His sanctifying power. Some indeed He has strengthened to the extent of the shedding of their blood.
FromOGMATIC CONSTITUTION ON THE CHURCH
LUMEN GENTIUM
SOLEMNLY PROMULGATED BY HIS HOLINESS
POPE PAUL VI
ON NOVEMBER 21, 1964

Did you read posts numbers 306,307,308?
While I believe there are many genuine Christians in your church, I cannot accept that your church itself is Christian. It is a counterfeit. It replaces Christ with a system comprising of man made rituals and traditions that have no basis in scripture. Those in your church who are Christians, are so despite the teachings, history, and practice of your church, and solely because they have in their hearts discovered that Christ is real and alive and they have developed a personal relationship with Him independant of papal and priestly authority and permission. If however they understood more fully the truths if scripture... The true history of their church and it's true character and nature, they would come out of her.
Yes, superficially the Catholic Church appears Christian. They are involved in many wonderful charitable enterprises, and kudos to all of those kind hearted faithful Catholics involved. But I think you know that there is a dark underbelly to Catholicism that reeks of hypocrisy and all manner of evil, and the current continuing sex abuse scandals are merely the tip of the iceberg of abominations that permeate the system. I take no relief from your quote above... While I may have brothers and sisters in Christ who are members of your communion, I reject the notion that your communion welcomes me. I am not in any way connected, physically or spiritually, to Rome. Not one thing of Rome's belief system do I accept, and my counsel to all Christians is to come out of her, God's people. Including you my friend. Leave her now while you have the chance, for the time is coming
KJV Revelation 18
7 How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.
8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.

 

[Joseph77]

While I believe there are many genuine Christians in your church, I cannot accept that your church itself is Christian. It is a counterfeit.

There are many who did get saved, and they were kicked out of that abomination - they rejoiced at that ! In that abomination, they could not tell the truth, practice the truth, or be free to worship the one true God and Jesus as Scripture Says.

p.s. There are not "many genuine Christians" in most any publicly observed or known place.

 

[Joseph77]

Leave her now while you have the chance, for the time is coming
KJV Revelation 18
7 How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.
8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.

Good.

 

[Yehren]

While I believe there are many genuine Christians in your church, I cannot accept that your church itself is Christian.

That's unfortunate, but of no consequence. Most of the world's Christians are, after all, Roman Catholic.

 

[Joseph77]

'Christendom' (of the world) you mean, not true Christians.
There's a chasm of difference that cannot be mixed up nor crossed.

That's unfortunate, but of no consequence. Most of the world's Christians are, after all, Roman Catholic.

 

[Yehren]

'Christendom' (of the world) you mean, not true Christians.

How sad it must be to have such resentment. Most Protestants are much more willing to accept all of God's people. Were you mugged by a nun, or something?