Are Protestants "saved? "

[Joseph77]

How close was Judas to Jesus, and who betrayed Jesus in the end?
I have found often in discussion hearing the opposition raise points brings in other perspectives you would never think about, because to put it simply you would never believe anyone thought that stuff in that way.

Would the love of Jesus blaze so big if it was not for the rebellion that challenged His right to exist?
Dominance says to humbleness and love it is weak and pathetic, until love unites those who need uniting and those who dominate find they have no friends or loyalty because all they ever did was divide and conquer.

It is why Jesus calls us not to resist the evil people, but rather give what they want and love them in return. It is in the conflict they rejoice and the disharmony they create out of which they seem themselves rising victorious. It lasts a short while, until those they dominate realise they are better off without the dictator. God bless you

"1893. Jesus Angry With Hard Hearts

by Charles H. Spurgeon on February 16, 2016

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No. 1893-32:181. A Sermon Delivered On Lord’s Day Morning, March 28, 1886, By C. H. Spurgeon, At The Metropolitan Tabernacle, Newington.


And when he had looked around on them all with anger, being grieved for the hardness of their hearts, he says to the man, “Stretch out your hand.” {Mr 3:5}"

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Yet his father gave him his inheritance. So this comment makes no sense, can you explain please?

He got nothing at all as that all went to his brother, who was good and faithful, bro was accepted back in but had no inheritance worthy at all, just like anyone who is Godless, they reap what they have sown, His dad was glad to see the scoundrel come back however.
It's just a story pointing out a point of such a situation.
One could say this much like of the so called Jews in the last 2000 years, they have squandered their inheritance to a false gods. until that day that such derelict worldly bastards come back into the fold.
The same is today with Christian churches who have gone astray from Jesus Christ, Religion never Saved anyone. you must come out from them and only abide in Christ Jesus and serve only him, end of story.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

He got nothing at all as that all went to his brother, who was good and faithful, bro was accepted back in but had no inheritance worthy at all, just like anyone who is Godless, they reap what they have sown, His dad was glad to see the scoundrel come back however.
It's just a story pointing out a point of such a situation.
One could say this much like of the so called Jews in the last 2000 years, they have squandered their inheritance to a false gods. until that day that such derelict worldly bastards come back into the fold.
The same is today with Christian churches who have gone astray from Jesus Christ, Religion never Saved anyone. you must come out from them and only abide in Christ Jesus and serve only him, end of story.

His father gave him his inheritance, he spent it.

so no, I disagree with you here,

 

[mjrhealth]

I expected a response like that. So you disagree that we need to repent as a condition of salvation?

Please show me where I disagree with repentance, just your " theology. As for repentance do you even know what it is,

Mat 21:28 But what think ye? A certain man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said, Son, go work to day in my vineyard.
Mat 21:29 He answered and said, I will not: but afterward he repented, and went.
Mat 21:30 And he came to the second, and said likewise. And he answered and said, I go, sir: and went not.
Mat 21:31 Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.

Did the first sin, no HE changed his mind. you know this bit

Luk 15:18 I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee,

you know what HE did, he changed his mind, than we have

Luk 15:20 And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him.

do you see dad demanding confession. no in fact he was already rejoicing in His sons return, than we have the other son, hard at work,

Luk 15:27 And he said unto him, Thy brother is come; and thy father hath killed the fatted calf, because he hath received him safe and sound.
Luk 15:28 And he was angry, and would not go in: therefore came his father out, and intreated him.
Luk 15:29 And he answering said to his father, Lo, these many years do I serve thee, neither transgressed I at any time thy commandment: and yet thou never gavest me a kid, that I might make merry with my friends:

Remind you of anyone, those religious zealots always demanding works and get offended because God gave us salvation without our works.

But as I said, so few willing to leave Egypt. Seems crossing the Jordan was not enough to stop christans running back top it.

 

[mjrhealth]

i suspect that many of our struggles with our own behavior are cleaning the outside of the cup prolly, and not deemed "venal" sins for nothing? Its just that i see little kids "sinning" all the time, right, why do they get a pass iow?

Amen to that

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

His father gave him his inheritance, he spent it.

so no, I disagree with you here,

The elder brother back in the days got 75% and the younger got 25% the younger brother took his 25% ? now he came back with his tail between his legs like a mongrel dog in the hope that he would be accepted back, he is welcomed back but he is as a Slave and is not worthy to be a true Jew.
If one wants to reject God one becomes a Slave is the message. he gets nothing as he squandered all, this is typical of worldly people who squandered the gifts of God and as such one become enslaved.
That is what is going on nowadays people have rejected God and are squandering there inheritance, this inheritance is not your family inheritance so much but in regards to your Christian Inheritance ? you are set to become enslaved under the worldly dupes.
That's why the Jews call you all Goyim = their cattle or Niggers, enslaved under great delusions, selling our selves out like a gutter slut whore that's not worthy of God.
Now the Jew who abides in the OT is even better as to God than such. they can see that clearly, as that's all that they talk about in regards to the goyim? so they do not respect you at all and will not listen to a word that such a one would say. they see such a one as being way beneath them and they can play such like a charm. you are in their hands, they own you ? they say jump and you say how high massa, you just keep jumping till I tell you to stop nigger ! I own your dumb arse ?
The Prodigal Son is nothing, he will end his life working for his Father and his Brother just as a hired hand does. the elder Brother gets everything, the younger has no say at all, he will always be a hired hand regardless. a brother non the less but has nothing, as he reaped what he had sown.
It's about what he had did in his own nest ? he will have to sleep in it now. you reap what you sow.
Someone who leads you astray ? you have to own it ? that's where Christianity is now ! under the Jews.
Even Pope Francis bowed down to Lord Rothschild on TV like a mongrel dog serving obedience him. the whole RCC must be that stupid not to understand what Pope Francis did when he Kissed that ring of Rothschild siting in that chair. are people that uneducated that they do not know what such things represent.

As a nation only reaps what they sow, we seen that in the OT with the Jews, they turned their backs of God and every time they failed, but when they were with God they were always victorious. same goes for Christians ! turn your back on Jesus Christ and you will come crashing down that hard.

 

[Paul Christensen]

The bottom line of the gospel is that a person is saved by believing that Jesus is the Son of God who paid his or her debt of sin on the cross of Calvary. That's about it, Straight out case and there it is. Denominations, Catholic or Protestant are irrelevant. There won't be Catholics or Protestants in the Judgment, only the sheep and goats. The sheep will have their names in the book of life, and the goats will have their place in the lake of fire. So no Catholics or Protestants will be saved because there will be none there before God's throne.

All the denominations, along with their religious systems, theologies and church buildings will all disappear and nothing will be left except the great white throne of God with individuals standing before it.

 

[FollowHim]

4 Perseverance must finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything.
James 1:4

6 being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.
Phil 1:6

God has given us a new heart, we are new creations in Him, He carries us through to maturity in His ways.

Do you believe God can change us and make us through following Him like Him?

If you do, then you know the gospel of Christ and the hope of the cross.

If you do not, you do not know Jesus or His way or His gospel.

Sinning against another for whatever reason does not bring about revelation or truth or is the way of God or Jesus. It testifies that the sinner is lost and in need of salvation. And this sinner has no good work in them for God to complete, because they have not begun with the work of Christ in them to begin with.

No matter our denominations or practises, until we believe Jesus can change us and bring life to our dead souls, we have nothing.
On these forums you will get everyone, and those hunting targets to lie and slander to provoke into sin and thereby show they are sinners and not righteous, pure, loving followers of Jesus. In their eyes there are no mature and complete believers and it is a lie to hope or believe such a thing is possible. In a real sense these hunters are unbelievers roaring like a lion to find people to devour.

In their unbelief, which has been with them their whole lives, they believe they know Jesus and wish to destroy these fake believers who they blame for the failure of everything. They are driven on this quest day in day out, not realising it is they who have become the enemy of the body of Christ, and are driven by bitterness and revenge for the disappointment of not being able to walk the way of Jesus, while not being of Him in the first place. God bless you

 

[bbyrd009]

Paul was so confident of his behaviour he held it up as the example for the churches who knew him to follow.

strange though, that he also has a passage about not being an example at all...wont come to me, but when it does might be interesting to contrast the two contexts

How close was Judas to Jesus, and who betrayed Jesus in the end?

ah well imo for that we would have to first ID the players correctly, i have a feeling i am playing Judas myself here lately tbh, dunno for sure though

 

[bbyrd009]

this is called Love, Even our enemies

If we have to attack those who are just trying to share a different view than ours. we are sorely lacking in that department

meh, views can be forwarded as beliefs or absolute truths, and attacks can be overt or subjective? I guess i have a fairly blunt style, no finesse or whatever, and quite often find myself being accused of attacking, when i am just asking a question even? So not disagreeing, but i guess "view" gets a subjective definition too?

Jesus never really got Angry at Judas, even though he knew he would do what he did, He still loved him.

how many of us say we can do that when people come against us?

that story gets a lot more pertinent when the symbology is understood, who are the Romans looking for Jesus, etc. Doesnt hurt to reflect on the passage from diff angles anyway :)

 

[bbyrd009]

The bottom line of the gospel is that a person is saved by believing that Jesus is the Son of God who paid his or her debt of sin on the cross of Calvary. That's about it, Straight out case and there it is.

dont be writing that in stone just yet imo ok sir?
gotta run, yall have a nice day!

 

[Josho]

Just a friendly public warning, earlier, a number of people were in breach of the Flaming, Goading, Harassment rule in this thread, I think they know who they are. So please watch how you respond.

Thanks

Christianity Board Forum Rules

.

 

[Brakelite]

Please show me where I disagree with repentance, just your " theology. As for repentance do you even know what it is,

Mat 21:28 But what think ye? A certain man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said, Son, go work to day in my vineyard.
Mat 21:29 He answered and said, I will not: but afterward he repented, and went.
Mat 21:30 And he came to the second, and said likewise. And he answered and said, I go, sir: and went not.
Mat 21:31 Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.

Did the first sin, no HE changed his mind. you know this bit

Luk 15:18 I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee,

you know what HE did, he changed his mind, than we have

Luk 15:20 And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him.

do you see dad demanding confession. no in fact he was already rejoicing in His sons return, than we have the other son, hard at work,

Luk 15:27 And he said unto him, Thy brother is come; and thy father hath killed the fatted calf, because he hath received him safe and sound.
Luk 15:28 And he was angry, and would not go in: therefore came his father out, and intreated him.
Luk 15:29 And he answering said to his father, Lo, these many years do I serve thee, neither transgressed I at any time thy commandment: and yet thou never gavest me a kid, that I might make merry with my friends:

Remind you of anyone, those religious zealots always demanding works and get offended because God gave us salvation without our works.

But as I said, so few willing to leave Egypt. Seems crossing the Jordan was not enough to stop christans running back top it.

You are skewing the discussion in a direction where it fits with your angst against churches. No one was promoting the idea that works contribute in any way toward our justification. No one.That is a straw man. The discussion was whether or not or salvation is conditional or unconditional. You claim it is unconditional, yet you also agree that repentance is necessary. Isn't the need for repentance therefore a condition?

 

[mjrhealth]

You are skewing the discussion in a direction where it fits with your angst against churches. No one was promoting the idea that works contribute in any way toward our justification. No one.That is a straw man. The discussion was whether or not or salvation is conditional or unconditional. You claim it is unconditional, yet you also agree that repentance is necessary. Isn't the need for repentance therefore a condition?

Im not skewing anything the bible did that,

Turning back to the father yes, how else can one do it, but than we dont know Gods final plan, do you???

As for church

1Co 6:15 Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid.
1Co 6:16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.
1Co 6:17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

and again

Rev_18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

you know like God said to Moses. go tell Pharaoh, to let my people go so they can serve me, still stuck in egypt. and the people groaned and murmured,

Exo 6:9 And Moses spake so unto the children of Israel: but they hearkened not unto Moses for anguish of spirit, and for cruel bondage.

the peopel still not listening.

 

[FollowHim]

strange though, that he also has a passage about not being an example at all...wont come to me, but when it does might be interesting to contrast the two contexts

ah well imo for that we would have to first ID the players correctly, i have a feeling i am playing Judas myself here lately tbh, dunno for sure though

Paul describes his life before coming to faith as the worst of sinners because he persecuted the church.

Following the example of Jesus and mature believers is a common theme. It makes sense because discipleship is an important way of growing in Christ but not often practised.

It is easy to claim a loving approach while being close to no one. God bless you

 

[Brakelite]

Turning back to the father yes, how else can one do it, but than we dont know Gods final plan, do you???

Yes, repentance is surrender and/or submission the Father through Christ...a forsaking of self will and allowing God's spirit to work in and through us for His purposes.
Do we know God's purpose? His final plan? Yes. That we may be fully sanctified and ultimately glorified in Him. How He accomplishes that and the route through which He takes us is an individual thing unique to each and every one of us. But the goal remains the same, and the foundation of our experience remains the same... The word of God. There is not a single Christian Church or denomination that does not have the Bible as the guide and standard for theology and practice. It is how we interpret the scriptures and the level of authority we ascribe to the scriptures where we all differ.
You have your opinion on the organised church system, which you widely condemn as apostate and a part of Babylon, while I would assume that you in your personal bubble believe yourself to be totally immune to error... Based on what? On scripture? Tell me. Where in scripture is there a requirement to shun any organised church system?

 

[Brakelite]

@mjrhealth but at least you now agree that salvation is not unconditional. Turning back to the Father is a condition. On that note, so also is forsaking the old life.. It's sin... It's worldliness... It's selfishness. Because you cannot turn back to the Father without turning away from those things. All conditions therefore. Things you have to do. Choices you have to make. Not works. But conditions of salvation nevertheless.
Then once you are with the Father, the just shall live by faith. Does living by faith mean living without choices? Does living by faith mean you stop acting on those choices you make? And on what authority do you base those choices? On scripture? Tradition? Culture? Dreams and visions? What is your authority? In other words, the faith you live by, is faith in what? On what it in whose authority do you trust?

 

[mjrhealth]

You have your opinion on the organised church system, which you widely condemn as apostate and a part of Babylon, while I would assume that you in your personal bubble believe yourself to be totally immune to error... Based on what? On scripture? Tell me. Where in scripture is there a requirement to shun any organised church system?

Actually the bible did

Rev_18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

and

Mat 15:7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
Mat 15:8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
Mat 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

never change while men prefer there religions, to the one who is the truth,

Joh_12:26 If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.

So many follow the religions, there pastors there preachers there churches doctrines so few are willing to leave Egypt to follow Him.

On what it in whose authority do you trust?

Joh 10:26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
Joh 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

and

Gal_1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

on what authority do you truth, your churches doctrines....??

Rom_8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
Gal_4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

no other way to become a son.

 

[Brakelite]

@mjrhealth You know mate, I don't care that you are an independent Christ loving Christian who is serving Christ in your community by loving others and contributing to their well being and doing what you can in your sphere of influence to alleviate the suffering of others. That is good religion. And may God bless you in that endeavor.
My contention with you is your wholesale condemnation of others who happen to belong to a church system and believe that by combining their talents, their skills, their means with others who have different skill sets they can effectively accomplish more than they can if they remained outside of that church system, and on their own.
Now sure, there are dangers in that. Church systems in the past... Religion in the past... Had been responsible for some horrific genocidal disasters and done massive damage not just to others, but to the name of Christ. And, there are churches that are self serving institutionalised monstrosities that accomplish nothing for anybody but it's own members.
Then, there are religious systems that have become a them and us thing. Our doctrines are right, yours are wrong, we're going to heaven, your stuffed mate kind of attitude. And take great pleasure in proving their 'rightness' over others.
Then, there's the religion that is designed to give the partake an emotional high. A feel good trip that gives the people a weekly fix to satisfy their emotional needs but ignores the needs of others.
Now there's a place for all of the above to a limited extent within Christianity. Nothing wrong with being correct in doctrine. Nothing wrong with being emotionally happy. Nothing wrong with looking after the brothers and sisters in the church. But if those things are all there is, then it's failing in it's mission. True Christianity is about self sacrificing love. And there are many in all denominations and in all churches who practice true religion... Looking after the less fortunate... The homeless... The hungry... The destitute... And if you are one of those in your small group or in your independent group, great. But don't be so quick to judge others just because they admit to being a member of a particular denomination it church system. You do not know what they do in private... You do not know what they do in conjunction with others for their communities... And you do not know what they are doing even in their own homes in giving their lives for the benefit of others. And that is what we are all going to be judged by. What we do for others. Our works. Whether Catholic or Protestant or independant no matter... Your Christianity... The reality of your profession will not be judged by your church membership or lack thereof... But by your loving obedient response to the promptings of the holy Spirit to serve God by serving others.

 

[mjrhealth]

My contention with you is your wholesale condemnation of others who happen to belong to a church system and believe that by combining their talents

Show me please where I am condemning any one, Christ came to show us the better way. Him, Grace truth, can HE help it men would rather religion, as HE put it,

Mat_7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Joh_14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

And when that door is shut, many "christians" will be banging on that door, let me in, we went to church, we studied the bible, we kept the law we did this and we did that, as He again put it.

Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity

and again

Luk_13:25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:

If you feel so condemned, maybe its time you asked "Him", why

Mat 15:12 Then came his disciples, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the Pharisees were offended, after they heard this saying?
Mat 15:13 But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up.
Mat 15:14 Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.

you wont have any excuse, God is not blind to mens ways.