ARE THEIR TWO CHURCHES OR JUST ONE?

[Doug]

Here we will examine, that if indeed, there is only one church.

The first notion to dispel is, that scripture identifies there being only one church in existence.

There was a church ( a congregation) in the wilderness before Christ came that worshiped the Lord...........[Acts 7:38 KJV] 38 This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and [with] our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:
[Exodus 34:14 KJV] 14 For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name [is] Jealous, [is] a jealous God:

If this church is acknowledged, is it unimaginable that there could be others formed during other dispensations?

Jesus established his church...........[Matthew 16:18 KJV] 18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.............Lord Jesus chose twelve disciples to be apostles............[Luke 6:13 KJV] 13 And when it was day, he called [unto him] his disciples: and of them he chose twelve, whom also he named apostles;

[Acts 2:14 KJV] 14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all [ye] that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
[Acts 2:41 KJV] 41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added [unto them] about three thousand souls...........those that believed Peter were baptized, and were ADDED to them..............[Acts 2:47 KJV] 47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved..........The Lord ADDED to them, the existing church, the church Jesus built during his time on earth. A new church was NOT formed at Pentecost. This church continued thru, and beyond the conversion of Paul.

This existing church, built by Jesus, was the church that Paul persecuted before his conversion. This was the church of God, the church at Jerusalem, the little flock........[Acts 8:1 KJV] 1 And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles.
[1Corinthians 15:9 KJV] 9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.
This church was never called the body of Christ.

Paul was saved and chosen by the Lord Jesus to be an apostle to the Gentiles...........[Romans 11:13 KJV] 13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

Peter and Paul had separate apostleship..............[Galatians 2:8 KJV] 8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles:)..........Peter was apostle to the Jews, and Paul to the Gentiles. Peter and Paul were not apostles over the same church. Their was no animosity between Peter and Paul. Paul could never have been selected as an apostle to the church in Jerusalem because he didn't meet the requirements. To be an apostle with Peter and the twelve, he would have to have been with the other apostles during the entire time Jesus was on earth, beginning from the baptism of John until the ascension of Christ..........[Acts 1:21-22 KJV] 21 Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, 22 Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.

Paul received revelations from the risen Christ Jesus............[Ephesians 3:3-4 KJV] 3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, 4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)...............Among these revelations, Paul received knowledge of the church Jesus formed for this dispensation of grace. Christ revealed that the church in this dispensation was the body of Christ, and it's members are members of his body. Christ revealed offices and functions to be set in place in the body of Christ.............[1Corinthians 12:27-28 KJV] 27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular. 28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.........................Revealed was Christ as the head of the body............. [Colossians 1:18 KJV] 18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence..............Nowhere was the church in Jerusalem, overseen by Peter and the apostles, referred to as being the body of Christ. Nowhere was it said that Jew and Gentile were one body in the church overseen by Peter. Only in the body of Christ was Jew and Gentile revealed to be reconciled in one body............... [Ephesians 2:16 KJV] 16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

Paul said that the body of Christ would sit in heavenly places..........[Ephesians 1:3 KJV] 3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly [places] in Christ:
[Ephesians 2:6 KJV] 6 And hath raised [us] up together, and made [us] sit together in heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus:..........Peter never spoke of himself, or his church, as sitting in heavenly places. Paul said that by the church, the body of Christ, the principalities and powers in heavenly places would know by the church, the body of Christ, the manifold wisdom of God..............[Ephesians 3:10 KJV] 10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly [places] might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,..............this was not made known by Peter's church.

What was made known by the preaching of the gospel of the kingdom by Peter and the apostles was that their believing members, would become a holy nation and a kingdom of priests; they would reign with Christ in his earthly kingdom.................[Exodus 19:6 KJV] 6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These [are] the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.
[Revelation 20:6 KJV] 6 Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years..............Only Israel was told they would be a kingdom of priests. Nowhere does Paul say the members of the body of Christ are, or will be made priests; this differentiates Peter's church from the body of Christ. Only Peter's church could have the expectation of being priests in the kingdom on earth.

It has been determined that Paul was not qualified to be an apostle along with the twelve apostles in Peter's church according to Acts 1:21-22, as discussed above, yet PAUL IS AN APOSTLE............[Romans 1:1 KJV] 1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called [to be] an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,...............One of the qualifications in Acts 1 :21-22 was "must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.", Paul did see the risen Christ, and did meet this qualification to be an apostle.......................[1Co 9:1 KJV] 1 Am I not an apostle? am I not free? have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord? are not ye my work in the Lord?..............Paul however, not only could he not be a replacement apostle for Judas, but he also could not be set equally beside Peter and the others as an apostle if there was just one church at the time.

For Paul to be an apostle, he would have had to be an apostle for a DIFFERENT CHURCH. Paul is an apostle to the church, the body of Christ, which means, the body of Christ IS A DIFFERENT CHURCH, ANOTHER CHURCH.

The only conclusion that can be reached is that there are TWO CHURCHES. There is Peter's church and there is the body of Christ. Peter's church was still in operation during Paul's ministry to the body of Christ. The body of Christ is not the same church as Peter's church. Neither is it Peter's church fully manifested in knowledge thru the completed progressive revelation given to the apostle Paul. These two churches have different apostles. These two churches have different destinies; Peter's church is destined to reign with Christ on earth; the body of Christ is destined to dwell in heavenly places. Two churches with different purposes; Peter's church will reconcile the earth and be a blessing to the nations in the kingdom on earth; the body of Christ will reconcile the heavens and make know the wisdom of God. Scripture presents two distinct churches in Christ Jesus.

Footnote: In describing the church at Jerusalem I used the term "Peter's church" only out of convenience It was not Peter's church, It was The Lord Jesus Christ's church.

 

[Aunty Jane]

For Paul to be an apostle, he would have had to be an apostle for a DIFFERENT CHURCH. Paul is an apostle to the church, the body of Christ, which means, the body of Christ IS A DIFFERENT CHURCH, ANOTHER CHURCH.

How on earth could you ever come to that conclusion? As if Paul preached a different gospel.....he preached the same gospel but to a different audience. He was chosen as “an apostle to the nations” because he was from a completely different background to the 12. Their audience was the “lost sheep of the house of Israel”, preaching to their own people on their own level......not from the elevated position from which the self-righteous Pharisees preached only to those whom they considered worthy of their time and attention.

The “lost sheep” were lost because their shepherds did not value them, and made no effort to reach out to them.
How many of Jesus’ parables were about lost sheep, and the shepherd leaving the 99 to go and search for one lost lamb?

The only conclusion that can be reached is that there are TWO CHURCHES.

I’m sorry but there certainly is other conclusions to be reached if one is not trying to promote Paul over the 12 and giving him his own church.

“Two churches”?...where will I find that stated in Scripture?

Most certainly there are two groups as the Bible clearly identifies in Rev 7:4, 9-10; 13-14....but not two churches. These two groups are all disciples of Jesus Christ, but one numbered (limited) group are chosen for rulership and priesthood, whilst the other (unnumbered) were granted everlasting life on earth, ruled by the ones whom God chose for that role.

Why are there two groups with different destinies? The Bible again answers this question.

In order for God to restore all that was lost in Eden for the children of Adam and Eve, he foretold a kingdom with Christ as King, supported by a limited group of God’s choosing to assist him in it’s administration.
All of the rulers in this kingdom have one thing in common....all have lived in human flesh, and all but it’s king have experienced life in sinful flesh. Jesus experienced sin as an onlooker but never lost patience with those who were afflicted with it through no fault on their part. He himself said he had come to save sinners....not those habitually addicted to sin, but those who fell into the category that Paul described in Romans 7:14-20...trying hard to fight against the inclinations of the flesh.

Those who know the power of sin are fully aware of the strength necessary to overcome it in their actions if not in their thoughts. And it’s in the thoughts that desire is turned into action and the sin is finally accomplished....leading to death if repentance is not demonstrated. (James 1:14-15)

There is Peter's church and there is the body of Christ. Peter's church was still in operation during Paul's ministry to the body of Christ. The body of Christ is not the same church as Peter's church. Neither is it Peter's church fully manifested in knowledge thru the completed progressive revelation given to the apostle Paul. These two churches have different apostles.

The body of Christ encompasses the entire number who were chosen from the first century onward, until the final number were filled by the time of Christ’s return. All those saved must be Christians but not all who are Christians have the “heavenly calling”. (Heb 3:1) The chosen ones (“saints”) are not chosen by men nor is it a position one can volunteer for....God does the choosing so that the governing body of Christ in heaven will be the best government that mankind has ever had.

The “government” that is on the shoulders of the “Prince of Peace” (Isa 9:6) will shepherd redeemed mankind back into reconciliation with their Creator. The main criteria will be obedience from the heart in all that Christ taught.

These two churches have different destinies; Peter's church is destined to reign with Christ on earth; the body of Christ is destined to dwell in heavenly places. Two churches with different purposes; Peter's church will reconcile the earth and be a blessing to the nations in the kingdom on earth; the body of Christ will reconcile the heavens and make know the wisdom of God. Scripture presents two distinct churches in Christ Jesus.

Not even close.....God has one “church” or “ekklēsia”......defined in Strongs Concordance as.....

“a gathering of citizens called out from their homes into some public place, an assembly

1. an assembly of the people convened at the public place of the council for the purpose of deliberating
2. the assembly of the Israelites
3. any gathering or throng of men assembled by chance, tumultuously
4. in a Christian sense
   1. an assembly of Christians gathered for worship in a religious meeting.”

Basically this “church” is a gathering of like minded people “for worship in a religious meeting”.
The ones in this gathering must all believe one truth, and hold all beliefs in common with no dissension or division. (1 Cor 1:10)

Therefore, there can be only one church, but with a division that was similar to the way Israel was divided into the priestly class, and the rest of the nation for whom they served as priests. Only those of Aaron’s clan could qualify for the priesthood. God was the one who chose Aaron’s family for that role and similarly, it is God who chooses those who will act as priests for the ones Jesus died to save....redeemed mankind.

Rev 20:6 indicates that these ones “will be kings and priests” who will rule with Jesus in his Kingdom. And they will be resurrected “first”. So their priesthood is not serve on earth, but in heaven after their resurrection....which takes place at Christ’s return. (1 Thess 4:13-17)
All are members of one church, and all hold to one truth.

 

[Grailhunter]

Here we will examine, that if indeed, there is only one church.

The first notion to dispel is, that scripture identifies there being only one church in existence.

There was a church ( a congregation) in the wilderness before Christ came that worshiped the Lord...........[Acts 7:38 KJV] 38 This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and [with] our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:
[Exodus 34:14 KJV] 14 For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name [is] Jealous, [is] a jealous God:

If this church is acknowledged, is it unimaginable that there could be others formed during other dispensations?

Jesus established his church...........[Matthew 16:18 KJV] 18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.............Lord Jesus chose twelve disciples to be apostles............[Luke 6:13 KJV] 13 And when it was day, he called [unto him] his disciples: and of them he chose twelve, whom also he named apostles;

[Acts 2:14 KJV] 14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all [ye] that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
[Acts 2:41 KJV] 41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added [unto them] about three thousand souls...........those that believed Peter were baptized, and were ADDED to them..............[Acts 2:47 KJV] 47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved..........The Lord ADDED to them, the existing church, the church Jesus built during his time on earth. A new church was NOT formed at Pentecost. This church continued thru, and beyond the conversion of Paul.

This existing church, built by Jesus, was the church that Paul persecuted before his conversion. This was the church of God, the church at Jerusalem, the little flock........[Acts 8:1 KJV] 1 And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles.
[1Corinthians 15:9 KJV] 9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.
This church was never called the body of Christ.

Paul was saved and chosen by the Lord Jesus to be an apostle to the Gentiles...........[Romans 11:13 KJV] 13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

Peter and Paul had separate apostleship..............[Galatians 2:8 KJV] 8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles:)..........Peter was apostle to the Jews, and Paul to the Gentiles. Peter and Paul were not apostles over the same church. Their was no animosity between Peter and Paul. Paul could never have been selected as an apostle to the church in Jerusalem because he didn't meet the requirements. To be an apostle with Peter and the twelve, he would have to have been with the other apostles during the entire time Jesus was on earth, beginning from the baptism of John until the ascension of Christ..........[Acts 1:21-22 KJV] 21 Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, 22 Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.

Paul received revelations from the risen Christ Jesus............[Ephesians 3:3-4 KJV] 3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, 4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)...............Among these revelations, Paul received knowledge of the church Jesus formed for this dispensation of grace. Christ revealed that the church in this dispensation was the body of Christ, and it's members are members of his body. Christ revealed offices and functions to be set in place in the body of Christ.............[1Corinthians 12:27-28 KJV] 27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular. 28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.........................Revealed was Christ as the head of the body............. [Colossians 1:18 KJV] 18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence..............Nowhere was the church in Jerusalem, overseen by Peter and the apostles, referred to as being the body of Christ. Nowhere was it said that Jew and Gentile were one body in the church overseen by Peter. Only in the body of Christ was Jew and Gentile revealed to be reconciled in one body............... [Ephesians 2:16 KJV] 16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

Paul said that the body of Christ would sit in heavenly places..........[Ephesians 1:3 KJV] 3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly [places] in Christ:
[Ephesians 2:6 KJV] 6 And hath raised [us] up together, and made [us] sit together in heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus:..........Peter never spoke of himself, or his church, as sitting in heavenly places. Paul said that by the church, the body of Christ, the principalities and powers in heavenly places would know by the church, the body of Christ, the manifold wisdom of God..............[Ephesians 3:10 KJV] 10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly [places] might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,..............this was not made known by Peter's church.

What was made known by the preaching of the gospel of the kingdom by Peter and the apostles was that their believing members, would become a holy nation and a kingdom of priests; they would reign with Christ in his earthly kingdom.................[Exodus 19:6 KJV] 6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These [are] the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.
[Revelation 20:6 KJV] 6 Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years..............Only Israel was told they would be a kingdom of priests. Nowhere does Paul say the members of the body of Christ are, or will be made priests; this differentiates Peter's church from the body of Christ. Only Peter's church could have the expectation of being priests in the kingdom on earth.

It has been determined that Paul was not qualified to be an apostle along with the twelve apostles in Peter's church according to Acts 1:21-22, as discussed above, yet PAUL IS AN APOSTLE............[Romans 1:1 KJV] 1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called [to be] an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,...............One of the qualifications in Acts 1 :21-22 was "must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.", Paul did see the risen Christ, and did meet this qualification to be an apostle.......................[1Co 9:1 KJV] 1 Am I not an apostle? am I not free? have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord? are not ye my work in the Lord?..............Paul however, not only could he not be a replacement apostle for Judas, but he also could not be set equally beside Peter and the others as an apostle if there was just one church at the time.

For Paul to be an apostle, he would have had to be an apostle for a DIFFERENT CHURCH. Paul is an apostle to the church, the body of Christ, which means, the body of Christ IS A DIFFERENT CHURCH, ANOTHER CHURCH.

The only conclusion that can be reached is that there are TWO CHURCHES. There is Peter's church and there is the body of Christ. Peter's church was still in operation during Paul's ministry to the body of Christ. The body of Christ is not the same church as Peter's church. Neither is it Peter's church fully manifested in knowledge thru the completed progressive revelation given to the apostle Paul. These two churches have different apostles. These two churches have different destinies; Peter's church is destined to reign with Christ on earth; the body of Christ is destined to dwell in heavenly places. Two churches with different purposes; Peter's church will reconcile the earth and be a blessing to the nations in the kingdom on earth; the body of Christ will reconcile the heavens and make know the wisdom of God. Scripture presents two distinct churches in Christ Jesus.

Footnote: In describing the church at Jerusalem I used the term "Peter's church" only out of convenience It was not Peter's church, It was The Lord Jesus Christ's church.

First off define "church"
Secondly there are two groups with different beliefs. The Jewish-Christians and Gentile-Christians.

 

[David Lamb]

First off define "church"
Secondly there are two groups with different beliefs. The Jewish-Christians and Gentile-Christians.

What do Gentile Christians believe that is different from what Jewish Christians believe? If they really do have different beliefs, why does the apostle Paul say that there is no difference? He wrote:

“11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” 12 ¶ For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved.”” (Ro 10:11-13 NKJV)

As I expect you know, "Greek" is sometimes used to mean "Gentile" in the New Testament.

 

[Doug]

“Two churches”?...where will I find that stated in Scripture?

Here is my post
It has scripture

ARE THEIR TWO CHURCHES OR JUST ONE?​

 

[Doug]

Rev 20:6 indicates that these ones “will be kings and priests” who will rule with Jesus in his Kingdom. And they will be resurrected “first”. So their priesthood is not serve on earth, but in heaven after their resurrection....which takes place at Christ’s return. (1 Thess 4:13-17)

Believing Israel will be kings......................[Exo 19:6 KJV] 6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These [are] the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

Believing Israel and Christ will reign on the earth................
[Jer 23:5 KJV] 5 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
[Rev 5:10 KJV] 10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

 

[Doug]

First off define "church"
Secondly there are two groups with different beliefs. The Jewish-Christians and Gentile-Christians.

church is an assembly of believers

 

[Grailhunter]

What do Gentile Christians believe that is different from what Jewish Christians believe? If they really do have different beliefs, why does the apostle Paul say that there is no difference? He wrote:

“11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” 12 ¶ For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved.”” (Ro 10:11-13 NKJV)

As I expect you know, "Greek" is sometimes used to mean "Gentile" in the New Testament.

I am surprised you do not know this…..you seem to study the Bible.
Gentile does not mean Greek. It means heathen---from the Jewish perspective, but over all in general it means Non-Jewish---Not of the Old Covenant. As it was Greeks could be Greek Pagans or Greek Christians but both were considered Gentiles by the Jews. Then again Gentile is not any race or nationality.

The concept of Gentiles is found in the Old Testament. God designated the descendants of Abraham, the Israelites, as His chosen people. He made a covenant with them and revealed His commandments to them, which they were to live according to. Those outside of the nation of Israel were considered gentiles.

What are the differences between the Jewish-Christians and Gentile-Christians?
I am going list this from the top of my head…..I may miss a few.

The first 15 chapters of Acts sheds some light on this. It can be said that there were hostilities between the Jews and Jewish-Christians and Gentile-Christians.

The process of salvation was the same for both groups EXCEPT the Jewish-Christians believed you had to be circumcised to be a Christian. The Apostle Paul opposed this point strongly. To the point of a curse.

613 Mosaic Laws some of which the Jewish Christians observed. We do not know what Laws were not observed. The excution of raped women?

Polygamy and concubinage was not degraded or stopped by the scriptures. Historically the Jewish Christians practiced polygamy and Jewish Christians, did they sell their daughters as sex slaves---concubines? More likely some women were just considered concubines. To a small degree Christianity practiced both until the 12th century. And some still practice polygamy and concubinage today.

The Jewish Christians worshipped and sacrificed in the Temple but Gentile-Christians were not allowed in the Temple and Gentile-Christians did not sacrifice anamals. How do we know that Jewish-Christians sacrificed anamals? If you worshipped in the Temple and refused to sacrifice anaimals you would have been drug out and stoned

Dietary guidelines did not carry over to Gentile-Christians.

Jewish holidays and customs did not carry over to Gentile-Christians.

A lot of this was settled at the meeting in Jerusalem in chapter 15 of Acts.

Gentiles had a custom of elaborate Wedding Ceremonies and they brought that custom into Christianity, where it was practiced voluntarily until the Protestants made Church Wedding Ceremonies a requirement to be married…..in the 16th century.

The Gentiles were diverse by region and each region had it own customs and holidays…
Many of the Jewish holidays and festivals focused on the Moon and harvest. The Gentile holidays and festivals focused on the Summer Equinox and Winter Solace and harvests. The Gentiles-Christians took many of these holidays and festivals and Christianized them.

The Jews and Jewish Christians studied and collected Hebrew texts....what we call the Old Testament. The Gentile Christians were not that interested in the Hebrew texts. The first hand written bound Bibles were New Testament only.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Here is my post
It has scripture

ARE THEIR TWO CHURCHES OR JUST ONE?​

Scripture can be interpreted whatever way suits your viewpoint....there are not two churches teaching different gospels. Nowhere does the Bible say anything like that. There are two distinct groups within Christianity, but they hold all beliefs in common. (1 Cor 1:10) All adhere to one truth.

Believing Israel will be kings......................[Exo 19:6 KJV] 6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These [are] the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

Well, first you have to know who “Israel” was originally....and follow their history. The covenant they made with their God, who delivered them from slavery n Egypt, required something from them in order to keep the covenant in force and to receive God’s blessing. Have you followed their history?

At Mt Sinai, God offered Israel a bi-lateral agreement....a legally binding contract between two parties, which required a mediator, who at that time was Moses, acting as negotiator. God showed his desire to enter into the covenant, but now, what was the will of the other party who was invited to enter into the covenant? As free willed humans, they had to do so willingly and to abide by the terms and conditions.
What were those terms and conditions?

Ex 19:4-6...
“This is what you are to say to the house of Jacob and to tell the Israelites, 4  ‘You have seen for yourselves what I did to the Egyptians, in order to carry you on wings of eagles and bring you to myself. 5  Now IF you will strictly obey my voice and keep my covenant, you will certainly become my special property out of all peoples, for the whole earth belongs to me. 6  You will become to me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words that you are to say to the Israelites.”

What was their response?
“8  After that all the people answered unanimously: “All that Jehovah has spoken, we are willing to do.”

Now ask yourself if Israel kept to those terms and conditions during their sad and sorry history?

God had foretold that the descendants of Abraham would produce the promised Messiah, so even when Israel failed God...he did not forsake them, until his purpose to produce the Messiah was fulfilled.

When Jesus walked the earth, he did not have a good thing to say about the Jewish leadership, in fact he condemned those religious hypocrites to “Gehenna”. (Matt 23:33; Matt 15:7-9) But he continued to appeal to the “lost sheep” who individually came to accept him as the promised savior. This was through the preaching work that Christ had assigned to all his disciples. It’s the way Christianity was spread. (Matt 28:19-20)

In the days of the apostles, God revealed that disobedient natural Israel would be abandoned and a new “Israel” would come into existence. (Rom 2 :28-29; Rom 9:6) Paul called these ones...”the Israel of God” (Gal 6:16) but they were the disciples of Jesus, made up of both Jewish and gentile converts to Christianity.

Jesus pronounced sentence on natural Israel in Matthew 23:37-38....
“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the killer of the prophets and stoner of those sent to her—how often I wanted to gather your children together the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings! But you did not want it. 38  Look! Your house is abandoned to you.”

Can you see what he said about their history of killing the prophets that God sent to correct them? He knew that they were about to do the same to him.
They had always failed to live up to the terms of the covenant that they, as a nation, had willingly accepted. That little word “IF” was never in their conduct, only in their words. Talk is cheap....that is relevant to all of us.

Even John the Baptist identified the problem that motivated those hypocrites....
“When he caught sight of many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to the baptism, he said to them: “You offspring of vipers, who has warned you to flee from the coming wrath? 8  Therefore, produce fruit that befits repentance. 9  Do not presume to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ For I say to you that God is able to raise up children for Abraham from these stones. 10  The ax is already lying at the root of the trees. Every tree, then, that does not produce fine fruit is to be cut down and thrown into the fire.” (Matt 3:7-10)

Literal Israel will not be saved just because they descended from Abraham......unless as individuals, they accept Jesus as Messiah they are bound by the old covenant, not covered by the new one.......they have not been swayed to accept Jesus as a nation for almost 2000 years! To this day, they deny him. Yet individuals continue to accept him, leaving their former worship behind as no longer binding since Jesus instituted a new covenant, not with fleshly Israel, but with spiritual Israel.

Believing Israel and Christ will reign on the earth................
[Jer 23:5 KJV] 5 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
[Rev 5:10 KJV] 10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Yes, the “Israel of God” will reign, but not “on” the earth....it will be “over the earth” through God’s earthly representatives as he has always done....most likely these will be men of faith in pre-Christian times.

Those who make up the spiritual kingship and priesthood are taken to heaven where they will reign with Jesus, (Rev 20:6) who will never be seen on earth again. His flesh and blood was sacrificed for mankind, and he returned to heaven in a spiritual body, as are all those of his elect. They are raised as immortal spirits....incorruptible....in a “new” “heavenly Jerusalem”. (Heb 12:22; Rev 21:2-4)

If your focus is on literal Israel, you have missed the point entirely. There is no “holy land” anymore...it is polluted with innocent blood and no longer a place for the pure worship of the Most High, Jehovah. (Psalm 83:18)
Jesus told the Samaritan woman that no geographical location would be the center of God’s worship in the future. (John 4:19-22) As a global faith, Christ’s disciples would be found in “the most distant part of the earth”....they will be ruled from heaven.

 

[Doug]

Scripture can be interpreted whatever way suits your viewpoint...

To be a valid viewpoint it has to be supported by other scriptures

 

[Doug]

Yes, the “Israel of God” will reign, but not “on” the earth....it will be “over the earth” through God’s earthly representatives as he has always done....most likely these will be men of faith in pre-Christian times.

[Rev 5:10 KJV] 10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.................the Israel of God will reign ON the eart

 

[Aunty Jane]

To be a valid viewpoint it has to be supported by other scriptures

Absolutely true....what does “other Scripture” say about where mankind was created to live forever?
Should we start in Genesis...at the beginning?

Genesis tells us that God planted a garden and placed the man in it, with two trees among many that he singled out for them.....”the tree of the knowledge of good and evil”.....and “the tree of life”.

Eating the fruitage of one tree would cause death, whereas there was no natural cause of death in Eden. God created mankind in his own image and likeness, which meant that we were not designed to die, but to live forever in mortal flesh on earth. “The tree of life” was the guarantee that death would never come to humankind. But we all know what happened...eating of the tree that God claimed as his personal property, meant that access to “the tree of life” was denied from that time onward. Death would stalk them until they eventually died. Spiritual death was instantaneous.

Gen 3:22-24...
“Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of us in knowing good and evil. Now, lest he reach out his hand and take also of the tree of life and eat, and live forever—” therefore the Lord God sent him out from the garden of Eden to work the ground from which he was taken. He drove out the man, and at the east of the garden of Eden he placed the cherubim and a flaming sword that turned every way to guard the way to the tree of life.”

With access denied to the only means of keeping them alive perpetually, the humans would now succumb to death. A slow decline that was going to take over 900 years for Adam to die.

What was the “death” that God warned Adam was waiting for him?

“And to Adam he said, “Because you have listened to the voice of your wife and have eaten of the tree of which I commanded you, ‘You shall not eat of it, ’cursed is the ground because of you; in pain you shall eat of it all the days of your life; thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you; and you shall eat the plants of the field. By the sweat of your face you shall eat bread, till you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken; for you are dust, and to dust you shall return.”

There is no mention of an afterlife in either heaven or hell here....so what then was this “death”? If anyone deserved punishment for the death of the entire human race...it was Adam! (Rom 5:12) Yet all God told him about was the cessation of his life and the return of his body to the dust from which he was created. Death was actually death...it never was a gateway to another conscious life. Later, God spoke of a resurrection, but that was a long way off.

So we know what was lost, and we know that God sent his son to redeem Adam’s children, so that the curse of death would be lifted in the future, when God restored all things back to the way he intended for them at the beginning. (Isa 55:11)

What was to be restored? God’s first purpose for the human race...the very reason he put us here in the first place. To populate the earth and to “subdue” it. Most people miss the importance of their assignment. What did it mean to “subdue the earth” outside the garden?

As the means for “undoing the works of the devil” (who instigated this defection in the first place), God made sure that all of his children, both in heaven and on earth, would benefit from his handling of this rebellion. It would be an object lesson of mammoth proportions but in the end would result in God’s will being “done on earth as it is in heaven”. The means of bringing this about, was God’s Kingdom.....a heavenly “government” that would bring all of God’s creation together in harmony...as one Universal family.

Free will was a gift, but disobedience turned it into a curse...one that we have been dealing with since the eviction back in Eden.
Free will was not a mistake, even though all of God’s children were endowed with it...it was the abuse of free will that led to all of our problems. We were not designed to exercise our free will at the cost of someone else’s. We were not designed to rule ourselves because power over others robs them of their free will, subjugating them to those who selfishly assume power over them. When we look back at the history of the world we can see that abuse of free will was at the bottom of every war, and every act of violence and bloodshed...every selfish action in taking what belonged to someone else as if they had the right to it...their possessions, their spouse, their land, their autonomy....their lives.

Can you see a bigger picture emerging?

What has God been teaching us all this time? He told us the problem and he has unfolded his solution over time, to show us the role that Jesus will play in “the restoration of all things”. We cannot know what is restored, until we know what was lost.

Unending life in paradise on earth for the human race was God’s first purpose for us......he told us about the means he would use to restore that beautiful life that we never got to live....right here on earth....the place God lovingly prepared to be our eternal home.

The Bible indicates that God would choose the rulers in this government to assist Jesus Christ as its Chief Administrator....the “government” that Isaiah said would be “on his shoulders” as ”the Prince of Peace”. (Isa 9:6)

It also indicated that this kingdom would be in heaven, but it’s subjects would be on earth. There is no other reason why the elect need to be transformed into spirit beings in order to join their Lord in heaven...the place where he went to “prepare a place” for them.

They will not reside on the earth, but their reign will benefit all on the earth, through earthly representatives as he demonstrated with the nation of Israel. A certain tribe produced their priests, and another produced their kings to govern the people and to lead them in acceptable worship.

Those chosen to rule with Christ will be both, as Jesus is (“in the manner of Melchizedek”, who was a king/priest in Abraham’s day, before the formation of the nation of Israel).

Rev 20:6 confirms this dual role for them. It also says that these ones, of a specific number, are “chosen from among mankind as firstfruits”...and will be resurrected “first”. (Rev 14:1-5)

Everything in the Bible follows a pattern. “Types and shadows” as Paul called them.

We will all go back to what God intended for us at the beginning....having proven that we can be obedient, even under the worst of circumstances...that is why everlasting life is called a “reward”....it is God thanking obedient mankind for sticking with him through a tough time when he was defending his Sovereign right to set the limits of man’s free will, and his right to demand their obedience......as well as that of his angelic sons.

The defectors, both human and angelic, will be removed from existence, and the coming of the Kingdom’s rule over the earth will restore it all back to the way it should have been all along. We are programmed to live in paradise......we lost it.....but God has made sure that we will get it back.....so that the abuse of free will can never happen again. Precedents are set for all eternity.

The big picture makes sense to me......I have not lost myself in the maze of conflicting beliefs in Christendom, but simply followed the logical conclusion that the Bible itself reveals.

Imagine the outcome!!! Go back and see what God gave the humans in the beginning....wonderful!

 

[Doug]

There is no mention of an afterlife in either heaven or hell here....so what then was this “death”? If anyone deserved punishment for the death of the entire human race...it was Adam! (Rom 5:12) Yet all God told him about was the cessation of his life and the return of his body to the dust from which he was created. Death was actually death...it never was a gateway to another conscious life. Later, God spoke of a resurrection, but that was a long way off.

[2Th 1:7-9 KJV] 7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

The ungodly will be tormented forever

 

[Doug]

There is no mention of an afterlife in either heaven or hell here...

[Rev 20:10 KJV] 10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

The beast and the false prophet are still alive to be tormented

 

[Aunty Jane]

[2Th 1:7-9 KJV] 7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

The ungodly will be tormented forever

Do you see the words “everlasting destruction” there? If something is “destroyed” it is gone...it no longer exists. As Jesus said in a very well known verse....John 3:16...

“For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be DESTROYED but have everlasting life.”

So much emphasis is put on the first part of that verse that no one seems to notice what the opposite of everlasting life is said to be.....those not exercising sing faith in God’s only begotten Son are “destroyed”.

There is no immortal soul taught in Scripture.....there are the living and the dead, but Jesus promised the dead a resurrection. (John 5:28-29) This was a restoration of life under the rule of God’s Kingdom and Jesus himself will call all the dead from their graves to give them back life.

Death is the end of life...it is a virtual state of suspended animation where the dead are unconscious (Eccl 9:5, 10) and will be remembered when Jesus calls them all from the same place to be judged, not for what they did in their past sinful life, but separating them as those who died faithful and those who did not, perhaps because they lived at a time or in a location where the true God was not known. God does not punish ignorance unless it is chosen....a deliberate ignorance because one refuses to listen.

So “the righteous and the unrighteous” are given separate judgments. (Acts 24:15)
Those who proved faithful to death are granted life, whereas they those who practiced even vile things in their ignorance will be offered a period of judgment...a time to change their ways through education and to make a free willed choice to serve the true God as part of his earthly family.

The incorrigibly wicked however will remain forever dead, because God has no time or inclination to punish them for the sake of punishment. All of the punishments under God’s law were intended to lead to repentance and if no repentance was shown, no forgiveness was possible.
Christendom’s hell is eternal with no way to repent....that is against God’s perfect justice. He will simply not resurrect them. Why does he need to burn them forever? (Jer 7:31) He found that idea repugnant.

[Rev 20:10 KJV] 10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

The beast and the false prophet are still alive to be tormented

What is this “everlasting fire”....”the lake of fire and brimstone” that was prepared for the devil and his angels as well as for “the beast and the false prophet”?

Speaking of the time when he would arrive as judge to “separate the sheep from the goats”....
”Then he will say to those on his left: ‘Go away from me, you who have been cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the Devil and his angels.”

What “everlasting fire” was this? A place where angels could be destroyed...and even death itself will be cast there, along with hades. (Rev 20:13-14)

This is “Gehenna”....a metaphoric place that was based on an actual location outside the walls of Jerusalem
...the Valley of Hinnom, where the apostate Israelites sacrificed their children in the fire to a false god, Baal.

God turned it into a rubbish dump and it’s significance to his Jewish audience meant that, at death a wicked person was not given a decent burial in a tomb or grave with their names and lineage inscribed, but it signified an ignominious end to that person’s existence. Their lifeless bodies were cast into the fires of Gehenna.
Nothing alive ever went into “Gehenna”....the fires were kept burning day and night to consume the garbage.....even human garbage.

To his Jewish audience it meant no resurrection....Christendom ran with the Greek notion of an immortal soul and turned it into something literal, where souls are eternally tormented for a short lifetime of sin, which was not their fault in the first place. Their sin was inherited from Adam, so where is the justice if this is a literal destination to punish them forever?

The highest penalty you could pay under God’s Law was death....no punishment ever included torture. That is not who God is....he is not a sadist. His punishments are always in keeping with the severity of the crime.
His justice is perfectly balanced by his love.

So what is the “torment”?
In Greek this word is “basanizō” [Strongs G928] and it has a range of meanings which is demonstrated in how it is rendered in other Scripture...for example on one occasion when Jesus was expelling the demons....

“And they cried out, saying, “What business do we have with each other, Son of God? Have You come here to torment [G928] us before the time?” (Matt 8:29)

What was the “torment” implied here? Was it physical or mental?

Another is in Mark 6:48....
“Seeing them straining [G928] at the oars, for the wind was against them, at about the fourth watch of the night He came to them, walking on the sea; and He intended to passby them.”

They were battling against the weather.

So in order to feel torment or pain, one has to be conscious....but the Bible says that the dead are not conscious, (Eccl 9,5, 10) so any torment felt by God’s enemies will be experienced before they die. The Pharisees who plotted Christ’s murder were tormented by his preaching because he exposed them as frauds and hypocrites. (Matt 15:7-9) The wicked will not die before they know who the true God is and always was.

Anyone who believes in a literal “hell” does not know the true God at all.

 

[Doug]

Do you see the words “everlasting destruction” there? If something is “destroyed” it is gone...it no longer exists. As Jesus said in a very well known verse....John 3:16

If it is destroyed how can it be everlasting? That means ongoing forever

 

[Doug]

Anyone who believes in a literal “hell” does not know the true God

Jesus spoke alot about hell

 

[ScottA]

Here we will examine, that if indeed, there is only one church.

The first notion to dispel is, that scripture identifies there being only one church in existence.

There was a church ( a congregation) in the wilderness before Christ came that worshiped the Lord...........[Acts 7:38 KJV] 38 This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and [with] our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:
[Exodus 34:14 KJV] 14 For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name [is] Jealous, [is] a jealous God:

If this church is acknowledged, is it unimaginable that there could be others formed during other dispensations?

Jesus established his church...........[Matthew 16:18 KJV] 18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.............Lord Jesus chose twelve disciples to be apostles............[Luke 6:13 KJV] 13 And when it was day, he called [unto him] his disciples: and of them he chose twelve, whom also he named apostles;

[Acts 2:14 KJV] 14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all [ye] that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
[Acts 2:41 KJV] 41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added [unto them] about three thousand souls...........those that believed Peter were baptized, and were ADDED to them..............[Acts 2:47 KJV] 47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved..........The Lord ADDED to them, the existing church, the church Jesus built during his time on earth. A new church was NOT formed at Pentecost. This church continued thru, and beyond the conversion of Paul.

This existing church, built by Jesus, was the church that Paul persecuted before his conversion. This was the church of God, the church at Jerusalem, the little flock........[Acts 8:1 KJV] 1 And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles.
[1Corinthians 15:9 KJV] 9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.
This church was never called the body of Christ.

Paul was saved and chosen by the Lord Jesus to be an apostle to the Gentiles...........[Romans 11:13 KJV] 13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

Peter and Paul had separate apostleship..............[Galatians 2:8 KJV] 8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles:)..........Peter was apostle to the Jews, and Paul to the Gentiles. Peter and Paul were not apostles over the same church. Their was no animosity between Peter and Paul. Paul could never have been selected as an apostle to the church in Jerusalem because he didn't meet the requirements. To be an apostle with Peter and the twelve, he would have to have been with the other apostles during the entire time Jesus was on earth, beginning from the baptism of John until the ascension of Christ..........[Acts 1:21-22 KJV] 21 Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, 22 Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.

Paul received revelations from the risen Christ Jesus............[Ephesians 3:3-4 KJV] 3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, 4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)...............Among these revelations, Paul received knowledge of the church Jesus formed for this dispensation of grace. Christ revealed that the church in this dispensation was the body of Christ, and it's members are members of his body. Christ revealed offices and functions to be set in place in the body of Christ.............[1Corinthians 12:27-28 KJV] 27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular. 28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.........................Revealed was Christ as the head of the body............. [Colossians 1:18 KJV] 18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence..............Nowhere was the church in Jerusalem, overseen by Peter and the apostles, referred to as being the body of Christ. Nowhere was it said that Jew and Gentile were one body in the church overseen by Peter. Only in the body of Christ was Jew and Gentile revealed to be reconciled in one body............... [Ephesians 2:16 KJV] 16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

Paul said that the body of Christ would sit in heavenly places..........[Ephesians 1:3 KJV] 3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly [places] in Christ:
[Ephesians 2:6 KJV] 6 And hath raised [us] up together, and made [us] sit together in heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus:..........Peter never spoke of himself, or his church, as sitting in heavenly places. Paul said that by the church, the body of Christ, the principalities and powers in heavenly places would know by the church, the body of Christ, the manifold wisdom of God..............[Ephesians 3:10 KJV] 10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly [places] might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,..............this was not made known by Peter's church.

What was made known by the preaching of the gospel of the kingdom by Peter and the apostles was that their believing members, would become a holy nation and a kingdom of priests; they would reign with Christ in his earthly kingdom.................[Exodus 19:6 KJV] 6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These [are] the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.
[Revelation 20:6 KJV] 6 Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years..............Only Israel was told they would be a kingdom of priests. Nowhere does Paul say the members of the body of Christ are, or will be made priests; this differentiates Peter's church from the body of Christ. Only Peter's church could have the expectation of being priests in the kingdom on earth.

It has been determined that Paul was not qualified to be an apostle along with the twelve apostles in Peter's church according to Acts 1:21-22, as discussed above, yet PAUL IS AN APOSTLE............[Romans 1:1 KJV] 1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called [to be] an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,...............One of the qualifications in Acts 1 :21-22 was "must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.", Paul did see the risen Christ, and did meet this qualification to be an apostle.......................[1Co 9:1 KJV] 1 Am I not an apostle? am I not free? have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord? are not ye my work in the Lord?..............Paul however, not only could he not be a replacement apostle for Judas, but he also could not be set equally beside Peter and the others as an apostle if there was just one church at the time.

For Paul to be an apostle, he would have had to be an apostle for a DIFFERENT CHURCH. Paul is an apostle to the church, the body of Christ, which means, the body of Christ IS A DIFFERENT CHURCH, ANOTHER CHURCH.

The only conclusion that can be reached is that there are TWO CHURCHES. There is Peter's church and there is the body of Christ. Peter's church was still in operation during Paul's ministry to the body of Christ. The body of Christ is not the same church as Peter's church. Neither is it Peter's church fully manifested in knowledge thru the completed progressive revelation given to the apostle Paul. These two churches have different apostles. These two churches have different destinies; Peter's church is destined to reign with Christ on earth; the body of Christ is destined to dwell in heavenly places. Two churches with different purposes; Peter's church will reconcile the earth and be a blessing to the nations in the kingdom on earth; the body of Christ will reconcile the heavens and make know the wisdom of God. Scripture presents two distinct churches in Christ Jesus.

Footnote: In describing the church at Jerusalem I used the term "Peter's church" only out of convenience It was not Peter's church, It was The Lord Jesus Christ's church.

The two have been made one in Christ.

 

[Aunty Jane]

If it is destroyed how can it be everlasting? That means ongoing forever

Yes it does mean “ongoing forever”....in the big picture, and from a Jewish perspective, the incorrigibly wicked will remain in death forever....never to receive the promised resurrection. These experience the “second death” not the “second life”. (You have to be alive to suffer.)
The “second death” does not come with the hope of resurrection...this death is permanent.

Jesus will resurrect both the righteous and the unrighteous when his Kingdom rules the earth.

John 5:25-28...
“Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming, and is now here, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live. For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself. And he has given him authority to execute judgment, because he is the Son of Man. Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment.” (ESV)

What can we unpack from these statements?
Jesus here speaks of those who ‘hear his voice’, and live. Jesus personally raised the dead to show his people what resurrection was all about. When he raised his friend Lazarus, he called him out of his tomb, and gave him back to his family. Where was Lazarus before Jesus called him from his grave? Jesus said he was “sleeping”. (John 11:11-14) Death is likened to sleep. There is no immortal soul to go anywhere. Death is a state of complete unconsciousness. (Eccl 9:5,10) If Lazarus had gone to a better place, what was the point of bringing him back to this life, only to die again from some other cause in the future?

But it’s not just about “hearing”, it’s about responding to his message of salvation...those who are then moved to adopt his teachings and live by them, are then rescued from death. These ‘pass over from death to life’ in a spiritual sense then, but in a physical sense they will also live forever when they are raised to live in a new world of righteousness. (Rev 21:2-4)

The ones who have done good in their lives will receive a reward....but even those who have done evil, will also be raised....all come out of the same place....their tombs. But those who have not lived good lives will enter into a period of judgment, which is basically a trial period to ascertain if they had lived when Jesus walked the earth and left his teachings for us to follow, would they have responded? They are given that chance because God does not punish ignorance. He allows all to make choices based on the free will he gave to everyone.

Some Bibles translate the word “judgment” “krisis” as “damnation” which is misleading as there is no damnation involved here.
Strongs primary definition is....

1. a separating, sundering, separation
   1. a trial, contest
2. selection
3. judgment

It is a period of judgment..... It’s about giving these ones time to make some serious decisions, but in a world where unrighteousness does not exist. Satan and his demons are in prison for a thousand years. (Rev 20:1-3)

How many have lived and died before ever hearing about the true God and his Son?
God will not condemn a single soul to “Gehenna” who does not deserve to go there. Their everlasting punishment is everlasting death....but only when they have proven to be irreformable.

Jesus spoke alot about hell

What is the “hell” he spoke about? And how many words in the Bible are translated as “hell” when in Greek they all mean very different things? Was it “Sheol”? “Hades”? “Gehenna”? “The lake of fire”? Tartarus”?

Unless you do your homework apart from Christendom’s biased translators, you will come to the wrong conclusions about a lot of things. We need to be students of God’s word, the way it was written....understanding what the writers meant in their original languages.....according to their Jewish perspective....not the way it was erroneously translated under Christendom’s false teachings in a corrupted and divided church system.

The truth is there for all who genuinely search for it. God knows us before we get to know him. He will guide us to it, but only if we have the right heart condition. (John 6:44; 65)

 

[Doug]

The two have been made one in Christ.

Not yet but he will.............[Eph 1:10 KJV] 10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; [even] in him:

The body of Christ will be taken up the gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the tribulation by the believing remnant of Israel then comes the kingdom for a thousand years after all this Christ will gather together all things