ARE THERE STILL PROPHETS AND APOSTLES?

[michaelvpardo]

Big Andy wrote that reply to me so I'll answer.


Nobody is called to the office of prophet any more. Today we have the gifts of the Spirit and are able to prophesy but that's very different than being a prophet.
Nobody is suggesting that God no longer works in the world. I'm suggesting that there is no longer a need for them because all the prophecies have been given and written and the church has been established. We can (I suppose) prophesy about something that has already been prophesied, but that only means that we utilize the gift of the Spirit. If we understand God's prophetic Word enough and have faith that what we believe is true we can prophesy!

An example of this is that I have confidence that there will not be a rapture before tribulation. I've studied it enough in the Greek text to know I can prophesy that there will not be a rapture before tribulation! I can also prophesy that there will never be a one world government or a unified global religion. But actually, to prophesy is more down to earth than that. I could prophesy to you that if you continue doing business with a particular person you're going to get robbed by him.........or something like that.

Prophets were part of a hierarchy of office holders. In the OT for Israel and in the NT (even after John) for the establishment of the Church. As the Church was being established they eventually they were no longer needed and eventually fizzled out. The prophets of that day were very different that the OT prophets and different than even Jesus or John. After the church was established

So this comment....


Is the role of all Christian's, elders, pastors, missionaries, etc. The office of an Old or New Testament Prophet is not the same as one who prophesy's today.

I'll agree with you here, since all those who have received His Spirit, the Spirit of Christ, have the Spirit of prophecy, who is also called the Holy Spirit. I'm not sure that I understand the distinction though with regard to the "office" of prophecy. I see the distinctions between tne roles of prophet, priest and king under the Old Covenant, yet at least some of the kings were also prophets. Certainly at least David was, and the scripture tells us that even King Saul had the Spirit of prophecy fall upon him. I thought that this was because of their holy annointing. We even see the High Priest Caiphas, who sought Jesus's life prophesying because of his annointing in the gospel accounts. Jesus Himself is prophet, priest and king, and as members of His body we have a share in that appointment. I don't consider myself worthy of any such part, but I accept what the word says on the issue. I realize that I can be "thick as a brick" at times, but could I trouble you for just a little more elaboration on how you would define the "office of prophet?" If you've already done that a reference to the post should be helpful, and thank you.

 

[BLACK SHEEP]

There were no prophets between the Testaments and John the Baptist is actually considered the last OT prophet, and John the revelator probably the last New Testament prophet. He fulfills the criteria of a prophet of God as one who was called to be a prophet. After that when Christian's were building and structuring the church "government," prophets eventually became unnecessary after it was established. Apostles were at the top of the church hierarchy and prophets were second.

According to the first century didache, prophets had specific functions and went from church to church 'telling forth' God's Will for the establishment of the church. They were wandering prophets as they really had no place to live and were only meant to stay for no more than two days. They had no family, had no place to live and not allowed to receive any money. The position was often abused as they often extended their stay and accepted money and lived large at the expense of the congregation. And there were no prophets after the New Testament church was established.
The NT prophets became 'obsolete' in the sense that after the church was established and the foundation was laid they were no longer necessary.

 

[jiggyfly]

I've never experienced chopping off my left arm but I am reasonably sure I would not like it. But you are saying I can have no valid opinion of that occurrence unless I actually experience it.

So you are suggesting experience trumps scripture?

What scripture?

As I have already explained in post #31, apostles today are different than the original 12. They are sent out from the Church and do not add to the Scriptures. There have been many apostles in our time but you don't normally see them on TV.

How is Paul one of the "original twelve"?

 

[michaelvpardo]

The NT prophets became 'obsolete' in the sense that after the church was established and the foundation was laid they were no longer necessary.

I think that the disagreements are mainly about definitions. I'm inclined to believe that the prophetic gift remains necessary until Jesus Christ returns and the church is perfected. Its hard to believe that the Lord would allow the body to remain disjointed, full of factions, and largely dysfunctional until He returns. The prophets have always been, to some extent, about getting His people to return to Him or at least moving in the right direction. You can't look at the professing church at large in the world today and say that we're all connected and doing the Lord's will until He returns, though some are. Shouldn't there be a day when the Church as a whole has reached maturity, or is that just something for a perfected body? Sometimes I fret a bit over the Lord's comment:
7 And shall God not avenge His own elect who cry out day and night to Him, though He bears long with them? 8 I tell you that He will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless, when the Son of Man comes, will He really find faith on the earth?” Luke 18:7-8
I can tell you one thing for sure. If the word of God is abandoned and discounted, there won't be any source for faith, other than those who still proclaim it.

 

[In Christ]

Are There Still Prophets and Apostles?

Yes!!!

I too believe the disagreements in this thread is about definitions.

The definition of an apostle is “one that is sent.”

The definition of a prophet (not mentioned in this thread) is “one who declares the Word of God.”

In the sense of the above, all true believers are apostles and prophets.

Before ascending to heaven, Jesus Christ gave a command to the eleven and to the church.

Mr 16:15
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.”
We must tie this verse with Lu. 19:10.
"For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost."


Mat. 28:19-20
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Yes, the true believers are the present-day apostles and prophets!

Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the Word of God.

This is a fundamental truth. No one can become saved unless he hears the true Gospel. God works through His word.

No one can hear Gospel unless one is sent.

 

[jiggyfly]

11 Now these are the gifts Christ gave to the church: the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, and the pastors and teachers.12 Their responsibility is to equip God’s people to do his work and build up the church, the body of Christ.13 This will continue until we all come to such unity in our faith and knowledge of God’s Son that we will be mature in the Lord, measuring up to the full and complete standard of Christ.
Eph 4:11-13 (NLT)

 

[BLACK SHEEP]

Are There Still Prophets and Apostles?

Yes!!!

I too believe the disagreements in this thread is about definitions.

The definition of an apostle is “one that is sent.”

The definition of a prophet (not mentioned in this thread) is “one who declares the Word of God.”

In the sense of the above, all true believers are apostles and prophets.

Before ascending to heaven, Jesus Christ gave a command to the eleven and to the church.

Mr 16:15
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.”
We must tie this verse with Lu. 19:10.
"For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost."


Mat. 28:19-20
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Yes, the true believers are the present-day apostles and prophets!

Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the Word of God.

This is a fundamental truth. No one can become saved unless he hears the true Gospel. God works through His word.

No one can hear Gospel unless one is sent.

You've acquired a lot of misinformation.

You said,

"In the sense of the above, all true believers are apostles and prophets."

That wasn't true during the establishment of the church and it's not true today.

Apostles had to witness the ascension of, and be hand picked by Christ.

Prophets were office holders second to apostles. After the church was established they were no longer necessary.
You also said,

The definition of a prophet (not mentioned in this thread) is “one who declares the Word of God.”

You obviously didn't read the OP very well. Anyone can declare the Word of God. It's not something only a prophet can do.

This is what Vines say's,

Prophet:
"one who speaks forth or openly" (see PROPHECY, A), "a proclaimer of a divine message," denoted among the Greeks an interpreter of the oracles of the gods.
In the Sept. it is the translation of the word roeh, "a seer;"1Sa 9:9, indicating that the "prophet" was one who had immediate intercourse with God. It also translates the wordnabhi, meaning "either one in whom the message from God springs forth" or "one to whom anything is secretly communicated." Hence, in general, "the prophet" was one upon whom the Spirit of God rested, Num 11:17-29, one, to whom and through whom God speaks, Num 12:2; Amo 3:7,8. In the case of the OT prophets their messages were very largely the proclamation of the Divine purposes of salvation and glory to be accomplished in the future; the "prophesying" of the NT "prophets" was both a preaching of the Divine counsels of grace already accomplished and the foretelling of the purposes of God in the future.

In the NT the word is used
(a) of "the OT prophets," e.g., Mat 5:12; Mar 6:15; Luk 4:27; Jhn 8:52; Rom 11:3;
(b) of "prophets in general," e.g., Mat 10:41; 21:46; Mar 6:4;
(c) of "John the Baptist," Mat 21:26; Luk 1:76;
(d) of "prophets in the churches," e.g., Act 13:1; 15:32;21:10; 1Cr 12:28, 29; 14:29, 32, 37; Eph 2:20; 3:5; 4:11;
(e) of "Christ, as the aforepromised Prophet," e.g., Jhn 1:21; 6:14; 7:40; Act 3:22; 7:37, or, without the article, and, without reference to the Old Testament, Mar 6:15, Luk 7:16; in Luk 24:19 it is used with aner, "a man;" Jhn 4:19;9:17;
(f) of "two witnesses" yet to be raised up for special purposes, Rev 11:10, 18;
(g) of "the Cretan poet Epimenides," Tts 1:12;
(h) by metonymy, of "the writings of prophets," e.g., Luk 24:27; Act 8:28.

This is what Thayer say's,

1) in Greek writings, an interpreter of oracles or of other hidden things
2) one who, moved by the Spirit of God and hence his organ or spokesman, solemnly declares to men what he has received by inspiration, especially concerning future events, and in particular such as relate to the cause and kingdom of God and to human salvation
a) the OT prophets, having foretold the kingdom, deeds and death, of Jesus the Messiah.
of John the Baptist, the herald of Jesus the Messiah
c) of the illustrious prophet, the Jews expected before the advent of the Messiah
d) the Messiah
e) of men filled with the Spirit of God, who by God's authority and command in words of weight pleads the cause of God and urges salvation of men
f) of prophets that appeared in the apostolic age among Christians
1) they are associated with the apostles
2) they discerned and did what is best for the Christian cause, foretelling certain future events. (Acts 11:27)
3) in the religious assemblies of the Christians, they were moved by the Holy Spirit to speak, having power to instruct, comfort, encourage, rebuke, convict, and stimulate, their hearers
3) a poet (because poets were believed to sing under divine inspiration)
a) of Epimenides (Tit. 1:12)

Anyone who claims to be a prophet or apostle today is a false one.

 

[jiggyfly]

You've acquired a lot of misinformation.

You said,

That wasn't true during the establishment of the church and it's not true today.

Apostles had to witness the ascension of, and be hand picked by Christ.

Prophets were office holders second to apostles. After the church was established they were no longer necessary.
You also said,

You obviously didn't read the OP very well. Anyone can declare the Word of God. It's not something only a prophet can do.

This is what Vines say's,

Prophet:
"one who speaks forth or openly" (see PROPHECY, A), "a proclaimer of a divine message," denoted among the Greeks an interpreter of the oracles of the gods.
In the Sept. it is the translation of the word roeh, "a seer;"1Sa 9:9, indicating that the "prophet" was one who had immediate intercourse with God. It also translates the wordnabhi, meaning "either one in whom the message from God springs forth" or "one to whom anything is secretly communicated." Hence, in general, "the prophet" was one upon whom the Spirit of God rested, Num 11:17-29, one, to whom and through whom God speaks, Num 12:2; Amo 3:7,8. In the case of the OT prophets their messages were very largely the proclamation of the Divine purposes of salvation and glory to be accomplished in the future; the "prophesying" of the NT "prophets" was both a preaching of the Divine counsels of grace already accomplished and the foretelling of the purposes of God in the future.

In the NT the word is used
(a) of "the OT prophets," e.g., Mat 5:12; Mar 6:15; Luk 4:27; Jhn 8:52; Rom 11:3;
(b) of "prophets in general," e.g., Mat 10:41; 21:46; Mar 6:4;
(c) of "John the Baptist," Mat 21:26; Luk 1:76;
(d) of "prophets in the churches," e.g., Act 13:1; 15:32;21:10; 1Cr 12:28, 29; 14:29, 32, 37; Eph 2:20; 3:5; 4:11;
(e) of "Christ, as the aforepromised Prophet," e.g., Jhn 1:21; 6:14; 7:40; Act 3:22; 7:37, or, without the article, and, without reference to the Old Testament, Mar 6:15, Luk 7:16; in Luk 24:19 it is used with aner, "a man;" Jhn 4:19;9:17;
(f) of "two witnesses" yet to be raised up for special purposes, Rev 11:10, 18;
(g) of "the Cretan poet Epimenides," Tts 1:12;
(h) by metonymy, of "the writings of prophets," e.g., Luk 24:27; Act 8:28.

This is what Thayer say's,

1) in Greek writings, an interpreter of oracles or of other hidden things
2) one who, moved by the Spirit of God and hence his organ or spokesman, solemnly declares to men what he has received by inspiration, especially concerning future events, and in particular such as relate to the cause and kingdom of God and to human salvation
a) the OT prophets, having foretold the kingdom, deeds and death, of Jesus the Messiah.
of John the Baptist, the herald of Jesus the Messiah
c) of the illustrious prophet, the Jews expected before the advent of the Messiah
d) the Messiah
e) of men filled with the Spirit of God, who by God's authority and command in words of weight pleads the cause of God and urges salvation of men
f) of prophets that appeared in the apostolic age among Christians
1) they are associated with the apostles
2) they discerned and did what is best for the Christian cause, foretelling certain future events. (Acts 11:27)
3) in the religious assemblies of the Christians, they were moved by the Holy Spirit to speak, having power to instruct, comfort, encourage, rebuke, convict, and stimulate, their hearers
3) a poet (because poets were believed to sing under divine inspiration)
a) of Epimenides (Tit. 1:12)

Anyone who claims to be a prophet or apostle today is a false one.

Did Paul witness the ascension? Do you consider Paul to be a false apostle?

11 Now these are the gifts Christ gave to the church: the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, and the pastors and teachers.12 Their responsibility is to equip God’s people to do his work and build up the church, the body of Christ.13 This will continue until we all come to such unity in our faith and knowledge of God’s Son that we will be mature in the Lord, measuring up to the full and complete standard of Christ.
Eph 4:11-13 (NLT)

Has this happen?

 

[Brothertom]

Is the Holy Spirit yet living, & is He still speaking to the living Church?...& are there people who hear His voice, & does He yet send people?...

"Anyone who claims to be a prophet or apostle today is a false one." .........K. Profit

As tiny as this forum is, I'll bet that there are many here who have heard, & declare the Word of the Lord.

“And it shall come to pass afterward
That I will pour out My Spirit on all flesh;
Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,

.....[ By the way, prophesying is declaring the word of the Lord. ].....


Your old men shall dream dreams,
Your young men shall see visions.....[ This is prophetic revelation HEARING & SEEING God ]

And also on My menservants and on My maidservants
I will pour out My Spirit in those days.
“And I will show wonders in the heavens and in the earth:
Blood and fire and pillars of smoke.
The sun shall be turned into darkness,
And the moon into blood,
.......................Before................... the coming of the great and awesome day of the Lord.

And it shall come to pass
That whoever calls on the name of the Lord
Shall be saved.
For in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be deliverance,
As the Lord has said,
Among the remnant whom the Lord calls."

"Cessationism." [se·SĀ·šən·iz·əm, noun] Belief that the miraculous gifts of the Holy Spirit (namely prophecy, healing, and tongues) stopped being practiced early in Christian history, once they were no longer necessary."

It is heresy, in that it denies the Revelatory power of a Living God within the church. This is why some are so adamant about defending it, & sadly, angry & bitter too.

http://bigkiddfamily.blogspot.com/2012/06/error-of-cessationism.html

God yet speaks today, & there are prophets & apostles today....It's up to you to either receive them, or reject them. This is one of my favorite scriptures about their function:

"Not that we have dominion over your faith, but are fellow workers for your joy; for by faith you stand."
The Apostle Paul.

 

[BLACK SHEEP]

jiggyfly said,

Did Paul witness the ascension? Do you consider Paul to be a false apostle?

Maybe you didn't read the OP.

Not only were the original twelve apostles hand-picked by Jesus, Paul was as well.

And as he [Paul] journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven: And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.

Acts 9:3-6

After Jesus appeared to him, he said of Paul:

...for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:

Acts 9:13-15

Paul refers to himself as:

Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ...

Paul was hand picked. He's not a false apostle or prophet!

Is the Holy Spirit yet living, & is He still speaking to the living Church?...& are there people who hear His voice, & does He yet send people?...

"Anyone who claims to be a prophet or apostle today is a false one." .........K. Profit
As tiny as this forum is, I'll bet that there are many here who have heard, & declare the Word of the Lord.
“And it shall come to pass afterward
That I will pour out My Spirit on all flesh;
Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,

.....[ By the way, prophesying is declaring the word of the Lord. ].....


Your old men shall dream dreams,
Your young men shall see visions.....[ This is prophetic revelation HEARING & SEEING God ]
And also on My menservants and on My maidservants
I will pour out My Spirit in those days.
“And I will show wonders in the heavens and in the earth:
Blood and fire and pillars of smoke.
The sun shall be turned into darkness,
And the moon into blood,
.......................Before................... the coming of the great and awesome day of the Lord.

And it shall come to pass
That whoever calls on the name of the Lord
Shall be saved.
For in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be deliverance,
As the Lord has said,
Among the remnant whom the Lord calls."

"Cessationism." [se·SĀ·šən·iz·əm, noun] Belief that the miraculous gifts of the Holy Spirit (namely prophecy, healing, and tongues) stopped being practiced early in Christian history, once they were no longer necessary."

It is heresy, in that it denies the Revelatory power of a Living God within the church. This is why some are so adamant about defending it, & sadly, angry & bitter too.

http://bigkiddfamily.blogspot.com/2012/06/error-of-cessationism.html

God yet speaks today, & there are prophets & apostles today....It's up to you to either receive them, or reject them. This is one of my favorite scriptures about their function:

"Not that we have dominion over your faith, but are fellow workers for your joy; for by faith you stand."
The Apostle Paul.

What you and the rest have to understand is that apostles and prophets were office bearers in the church and that prophesying is a gift of the Spirit which isn't the same as being a prophet. You should ALSO familiarize yourselves with the first century didache which is the churches authority on the office of NT prophet.
There's no need for prophets or apostles today. The church is established and all the prophecies have been given.

 

[jiggyfly]

jiggyfly said,

Maybe you didn't read the OP.

Not only were the original twelve apostles hand-picked by Jesus, Paul was as well.

But that wasn't what you said in the post # 67 I quoted you from.

Apostles had to witness the ascension of, and be hand picked by Christ.

Notice you said, that an apostle had to witness the ascension and, not or be hand picked by Christ.

 

[BLACK SHEEP]

But that wasn't what you said in the post # 67 I quoted you from.


Notice you said, that an apostle had to witness the ascension and, not or be hand picked by Christ.

Well I made a mistake.

I did get it right in the OP.

I should have used the word OR instead of AND. Sorry!

 

[Dodo_David]

Let's cut to the case, shall we?

Modern-day people who claim to be apostles and prophets are trying to get us to believe that their words have the same authority as Scripture.

 

[Brothertom]

Here is a New Testament example of the functioning prophet outside of canon; entirely extra- Biblical.


"Then one of them, named Agabus, stood up and showed by the Spirit that there was going to be a great famine throughout all the world, which also happened in the days of Claudius Caesar. Then the disciples, each according to his ability, determined to send relief to the brethren dwelling in Judea."

The Holy Spirit is not dead...nor has Ephesians 4 vanished.

" He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God."

So, we cannot be selective: If apostles & prophets are not for today, neither or evangelists, Pastors, & teachers. The "ministry" as you know it is not needed either.

 

[iamlamad]

A prophet is one who hears from God. Not all men take the time to seek God, but there are still prophets in the body of Christ because the Bible says so.
Prophets hear from God by the Holy Spirit and that is who teaches the TRUE body of Christ.
As for ministers supposing to be POOR? Paul took funds from many churches for he understood that when we support the work of God's kingdom to send the evangilists and missionaries who are willing to give up their earthly job to advance the kingdom for God, that you are not only going to be given more, but your treasures in heaven will be great as long as you have the right heart attitude of giving without strings. Paul said that he cheated some churches because he did not ask for assistance from them to give them an opportunity to be blessed by God for doing so.
Peter was an apostle and was the first of them to receive revelation of the Word as are all who have their understanding from the Father and the indwelling Spirit of adoption.And the whole TRUE body of Christ will also be those whom God reveals His Word to for that is the FOUNDATION of the true body of Christ.
Matt 16:17-19
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
KJV


Jesus was a prophet and those who claim to be in Jesus, being formed in the womb in his image are to have the same mind as he did:
Phil 2:3-7
3 Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.
4 Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others.
5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
KJV


Peter
1 Cor 14:37-40
37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.
38 But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.
39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.
40 Let all things be done decently and in order.
KJV
1 Cor 14:28-33
28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.
29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.
30 If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace.
31 For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.
32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.
33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
KJV
Eph 2:18-3:1
18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
KJV
1 Cor 12:28-31
28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.
KJV
Eph 4:11-13
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
KJV
Rev 22:9
9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.
KJV
Rev 22:6
6 And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done.
KJV
Rev 10:7
7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
KJV
1 John 2:27
27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
KJV
Gal 6:6-9
6 Let him that is taught in the word communicate {provisions & funds OFFERINGS}unto him that teacheth in all good things.
7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.
KJV
Phil 4:14-18
14 Notwithstanding ye have well done, that ye did communicate {help him with funds}with my affliction.
15 Now ye Philippians know also, that in the beginning of the gospel, when I departed from Macedonia, no church communicated with me as concerning giving and receiving, but ye only.
16 For even in Thessalonica ye sent once and again unto my necessity.
17 Not because I desire a gift: but I desire fruit that may abound to your account.
18 But I have all, and abound: I am full, having received of Epaphroditus the things which were sent from you, an odour of a sweet smell, a sacrifice acceptable, wellpleasing to God.
KJV
Luke 10:7-8
7 And in the same house remain, eating and drinking such things as they give: for the labourer is worthy of his hire. Go not from house to house.
8 And into whatsoever city ye enter, and they receive you, eat such things as are set before you:
KJV
1 Tim 5:18
18 For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.
KJV
Luke 22:35-36
35 And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing.
36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
KJV

Finally some sanity brought to this thread! Thanks for a good post. OF COURSE there are prophets today, for the church is still here. OF COURSE there are apostles today, because the church is still here. And as is pointed out, it is scriptural. Lamad

Here is a New Testament example of the functioning prophet outside of canon; entirely extra- Biblical.


"Then one of them, named Agabus, stood up and showed by the Spirit that there was going to be a great famine throughout all the world, which also happened in the days of Claudius Caesar. Then the disciples, each according to his ability, determined to send relief to the brethren dwelling in Judea."

The Holy Spirit is not dead...nor has Ephesians 4 vanished.

" He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God."

So, we cannot be selective: If apostles & prophets are not for today, neither or evangelists, Pastors, & teachers. The "ministry" as you know it is not needed either.

Ha ha! Good post, Tom!

 

[Dodo_David]

Here is a New Testament example of the functioning prophet outside of canon; entirely extra- Biblical.


"Then one of them, named Agabus, stood up and showed by the Spirit that there was going to be a great famine throughout all the world, which also happened in the days of Claudius Caesar. Then the disciples, each according to his ability, determined to send relief to the brethren dwelling in Judea."

The Holy Spirit is not dead...nor has Ephesians 4 vanished.

" He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God."

So, we cannot be selective: If apostles & prophets are not for today, neither or evangelists, Pastors, & teachers. The "ministry" as you know it is not needed either.

Uh, the story about Agabus is in the book of Acts. So, his prophecy isn't extra-biblical.

In order to qualify to be an Apostle, one has to be an eye witness of the resurrection of Messiah Jesus (Acts 1:21-22). Nobody living today has such a qualification.

. . . If apostles & prophets are not for today, neither or evangelists, Pastors, & teachers. The "ministry" as you know it is not needed either.

The above-quoted argument is non sequitur. Nowhere does the Apostle Paul say that it is all or nothing.

 

[Brothertom]

So...God surgically removed just 2 of the 5......because it fits into the "cessationest" idea? That Scripture alone will fulfill your holy quest? No, He gave gifts unto men...as a package....& as Charisma...the gifts of the Spirit....which I discern you do not believe in either. I'm glad I'm not you....but Dogma has no challenge.....& I will not try to persuade you.....it can only end in strife.

 

[BLACK SHEEP]

Lamad,

Is that all there is to it? Is it as simple as, "there are still prophets and apostles because the church is still here!" Is that's as deep as you can get into discovering truth?

When I make my decision as to what to believe I look at the scriptural evidence. If then I still have questions I do a word study. Then it's helpful to see what other commentators have to say. In this case it's not too important to do a word study because the evidence is already there. This is part of what's called a hermeneutic. Something I wish more Christians had.

Did you read the OP? Let me summarize for you.
Maybe looking at these verses in another translation would help you understand what's implied since you don't like word studies because they always prove you wrong.

16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.
Hebrews 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

Ephesians 2:19-20 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

Ephesians 3:5-6 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

There have only been a few dozen (or so) prophets throughout history. In the OT God spoke through the prophets by wonders like the burning bush etc. The Holy Spirit wasn't as active in those days as He is today. The prophets of the OT were often exiled and often prophesied concerning Israel and Christ first and second coming. God used Israel to bring about the Messiah to save the world and is God's message to the world. No more prophets are needed to proclaim it. That's the mission of the church.

Before the church was established Spiritual gifts were administered to only certain individuals hand picked by God. As the Spiritual gifts emerged into the general population of the church, the apostles eventually died off and the prophets were no longer necessary.

Now that we have the fullness of God's Spirit some can 'prophesy.' That's a gift. NOT AN OFFICE!

Another brother said...

The truth is that God gave us Prophets (Old Testament) and Apostles (New Testament) for the establishing of the church. Prophets pointed ahead to Jesus. Apostles point back to Jesus. But, now God speaks to us through His Son.
"God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world," (Heb. 1:1-2).
And to be an apostle there were two qualifications. An apostle must have seen Jesus and witnessed his resurrection.
The apostles were hand-picked by Jesus himself.
____________________________________________

And when it was day, he [JESUS] called unto him his disciples: and of them he chose twelve, whom also he named apostles;

Not only were the original twelve apostles hand-picked by Jesus, Paul was as well.

Conclusion
So are there apostles today? I have given a number of reasons why there are not. Let’s just review them briefly.

1) There are no apostles today because the apostles served as a foundation for the early church only. We should not expect to see apostles today any more than we should expect to see someone laying a building’s foundation on the fourth floor.

2) There are no apostles today because they had to have seen Jesus after he rose from the dead. The apostles were to bear witness to the resurrection of Christ. To do this they had to have seen him after he rose from the dead. Paul says that he was the last person to see Jesus. Since no one since Paul has seen Jesus, no one since Paul can be an apostle.

3) There are no apostles today because apostles had to be hand-picked by Jesus. Jesus isn't around to pick anyone.

4) There are no apostles today because no one today has the miracle-working power of an apostle. Apostles were able to heal any physical condition. No case was to difficult. These healings often involved the miraculous recreation of body parts, and even the resurrection of the dead. No one is manifesting this type of miracle-working power today that I know of.

Not all NT prophets were apostles. And not all apostles were prophets! The apostles eventually died off but were still prophets for only a short time after the apostles died off.

The Bible warns us not to be deceived by false apostles. Since there are no true apostles or prophets today. Anyone who claims to be an apostle or prophet is a false one.

 

[michaelvpardo]

The Bible warns us not to be deceived by false apostles. Since there are no true apostles or prophets today. Anyone who claims to be an apostle or prophet is a false one.

Are the two witnesses spoken of in the book of the revelation prophets? I don't make the claim to be one of them (though at least one person floating about the forum thinks that he is.) Though, as far as I can tell, the two witnesses are still mainly doing what the church is called to do until Christ's return, however they are also able to perform some serious signs. There would appear to be a need for them. The NT scripture tells us not to despise prophecy which would seem pretty pointless if there are no prophets. In any case, we are called to discern the truth of the prophets by using scripture and more significantly the person of Jesus Christ as the standard of truth, but again it seems that much of the disagreement here is about definitions rather than practice. The real problem with our times is not the proliferation of false prophets and teachers (they've always been around), but the wide spread ignorance of what the scripture plainly says among those who claim to know God.
To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word,
it is because there is no light in them. Isaiah 8:20

 

[BLACK SHEEP]

There's much speculation as to who they are. Revelation 11:3 say's they will prophesy which is a gift of the Spirit but they aren't office holders like the prophets mentioned in the 1st century Didache and appear to be "hand picked" by Christ. I believe that they will prophesy to the followers of the Islamic beast. I don't think it matters at that time in passing prophecy whether they're prophets or not.