I'd like to hear from the Secular Humainsts if any will respond......I'd seriously, not sarcastically, like to hear the Biggest reasons...the main signifigant reasons you have for holding to this Worldview? The reason...I am a Christian doing research paper on this subject with assignment to present Gospel to this group. Despite the debate and antagonism that can and does go on between these groups, it's not my aim to slam you, but to sincerely "hear" ...not a million minor arguements, but some of your most Signifigant reasons for standing where you do...What has led you to this stand most signifigantly? What's the heart of your stand? Do you take it because of no proof of spiritual things...so that to you it's what is logical in this physical world, or do you take it based on knowledge you've gained that this way is our best Truth or Reality? And what are the key elements to your stand and why you stand here....Honestly interested...Not interested in despising you because of your belief, but in understanding Why you feel this way...Any participators? thanks, kim
Are you a Secular Humanist? Seriously?
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Well Secular Humanism is hard is define but the basic tenets boils down to the importance of human nature and the study of it and how our nature forms our beliefs. It's on the other side of supernaturalism which is puts more importance into supernatural forces. What has led you to this stand most significantly?Thinking, asking questions, being objective and challenging traditions and status quotas, seeking information, analyzing, observing human nature, our patterns, and applying reason logic and empiricism to all topics. Oh and philosophy. I love Socrates/PlatoWhat's the heart of your stand?Compassion and recognizing that all humans have emotions we are all subject to experiences of joy and sorrow. Also that we are capable of both love and hate good or bad. There is a dichotomy to our nature. It is more important to recognize this because to say that humans are always good and benevolent is wrong and say that we are always bad and malicious is equally as wrong. Just to add, A clear thing I've noticed is humans will always rebel against oppression. Whether it be political, religious, societal, or sexual, etc humans find resentment when we are not free. This I think is amazing.Do you take it because of no proof of spiritual things...so that to you it's what is logical in this physical world, or do you take it based on knowledge you've gained that this way is our best Truth or Reality?Mostly because there is hardly any proofs for metaphysical or spiritual things and but again observing people and our interactions. I think that logic, reason, understanding, work better than assumptions, faith, judgments and witch hunts,lol. j/k about the witch hunts. But I think reason, logic, and rational is the best way to seek or obtain knowledge. And what are the key elements to your stand and why you stand herea)I think it would be redundant but again key elements, recognizing human nature, being compassionate to other human being because we essentially feel the same things, applying reason, logic and empiricism, challenging ideas, philosophy, and seeking knowledge before accepting belief.b)Why, because I've found the approach over to be very helpful, and most importantly very effective. History tell us this as well. We've gotten to where we are today through these approaches. We've gotten science for one thing which has given a clearer and better understanding of our nature world, medicine, philosophy, psychology and technology. In a nutshell. Hope that helped, I'd like to hear your progress as well.
Hi SiskimI guess I'm kind of a hybrid here, I hope it doesn't matter? I used to belong to this category, then I became Christian for 7 years, and now sliding rapidly back into my previous camp, where I feel most at home.What has led you to this stand most significantly?1) Originally this was not a conscious stand or a deliberate choice from a range of options. It was purely because when I was young life was very good and I had no need for any God2) I was disgusted with the brutality committed in the name of faith and the contradiction with what faith tought. 3) The idea of a resurrected Christ and life after death struck me as simply too absurd to even take seriously, and I was convinced that people only believed in life after death either because they were too weak to face the finality of death or because life had treated them unfairly and this was the only option that offered a hope that justice would be done in the end.4) I have always been appalled by the tendency of believers to be obsessed with hypothetical thoughts, interdenominational arguments and the nature of life beyond -all to the extent that they almost entirely ignore the poverty and social chaos all around them. 5) The churches are almost always inward facing and look after their own and reject the outsiders whereas the bible teaches precisely the opposite.6) I am by nature very logically-minded and can handle concrete, tangible matters far better than theoretical scenarios. I only trusted what I could determine with my senses and logical thought.7) I see so many things in nature that are too extreme to believe that a loving God created them. Such as animals killing one another for food and the horrific ways that they do it, parasites such as worms, birth defects, diseases, etc.8) I was a very hard-hearted atheist. I took great care over my family, relatives and friends and ignored the rest. My stand was that if everyone did the same then there would not be problems in the world and therefore they were not my problem. However, I now see that many people cannot help themselves!What's the heart of your stand?1) The core of my position is that I have no personal experience of any divine being or of any works that can be solely attributed to a divine intelligence. There is only the circumstantial evidence of all that which cannot (yet) be explained - but that has been the argument for "God" ever since man started thinking for himself, e.g. sun gods, etc.2) The very idea that we, exceptionally, come back to life after we have died, even though we die in the same manner as the rest of nature dies, is just so totally absurd and probably just wishful-thinking.2) When one delves into the heart of faith and interact with people who claim to believe, there is rarely any substance actually there. It is nearly always just vague, repetitive rhetoric that cannot withstand debate. Most people do not even read the bible and yet claim to love Christ, and then those that do read the bible just argue about it - how can that ever present a convincing case that a secular humanist should consider faith? 3) I see no difference in commitment to helping the needy between theists and atheists - if anything the secular being is the first to actually help while the theist is too busy justifying why he should help whilst busily convincing himself that it wont help his salvation prospects.Do you take it because of no proof of spiritual thingsBasically, yes. I see no evidence of the Christian type "Father in the Sky" type being. To call God a "being" means that he is a being like us but bigger and better - I don't see that kind of God at work in the world. There are too many horrific happenings and unexplainable contradictions to support the view that such a God exists.I can lean towards the idea of God as a formative power, but whose nature and objectives are totally beyond comprehension.The only areas that cause me to pause and cling to the remnants of a belief in God are:1) As, I think, Jean-Paul Sartre said, we have a God-shaped hole in our conscience. It does seem that humans have an involuntary and compulsive urge to seek and find a God, and, that without one, there is an unfilled vacuum within our self that is unsustainable. It is hard to believe that humans would naturally evolve a uniform urge for something that cannot be satisfied because it does not actually even exist.2) Self-awareness is something that is difficult to equate with a purely natural world. You know, Who am I? Why am I? stuff.3) The origin of human values such as love, compassion, empathy and justice are difficult to justify in logical, natural terms - but these are common to humankind and not purely a gift from God to the religious.4) Other human feelings such as guilt and spite are equally difficult to justify without a God.Well there are some of my thoughts, it is a bit disjointed, but I hope it might prompt some thoughts for you
(Fryo;36456)
Well Secular Humanism is hard is define but the basic tenets boils down to the importance of human nature and the study of it and how our nature forms our beliefs. It's on the other side of supernaturalism which is puts more importance into supernatural forces. What has led you to this stand most significantly?Thinking, asking questions, being objective and challenging traditions and status quotas, seeking information, analyzing, observing human nature, our patterns, and applying reason logic and empiricism to all topics. Oh and philosophy. I love Socrates/PlatoWhat's the heart of your stand?Compassion and recognizing that all humans have emotions we are all subject to experiences of joy and sorrow. Also that we are capable of both love and hate good or bad. There is a dichotomy to our nature. It is more important to recognize this because to say that humans are always good and benevolent is wrong and say that we are always bad and malicious is equally as wrong. Just to add, A clear thing I've noticed is humans will always rebel against oppression. Whether it be political, religious, societal, or sexual, etc humans find resentment when we are not free. This I think is amazing.Do you take it because of no proof of spiritual things...so that to you it's what is logical in this physical world, or do you take it based on knowledge you've gained that this way is our best Truth or Reality?Mostly because there is hardly any proofs for metaphysical or spiritual things and but again observing people and our interactions. I think that logic, reason, understanding, work better than assumptions, faith, judgments and witch hunts,lol. j/k about the witch hunts. But I think reason, logic, and rational is the best way to seek or obtain knowledge. And what are the key elements to your stand and why you stand herea)I think it would be redundant but again key elements, recognizing human nature, being compassionate to other human being because we essentially feel the same things, applying reason, logic and empiricism, challenging ideas, philosophy, and seeking knowledge before accepting belief.b)Why, because I've found the approach over to be very helpful, and most importantly very effective. History tell us this as well. We've gotten to where we are today through these approaches. We've gotten science for one thing which has given a clearer and better understanding of our nature world, medicine, philosophy, psychology and technology. In a nutshell. Hope that helped, I'd like to hear your progress as well.
QUESTION for you logic,reasoning,empricism,and challenging ideas PEOPLE,One question only a christian could answer,How was the world created,you could believe in the big bang theory,but how was life created from that,You say cells have evolved and made us who we are,But what proof do you have,try to reason this,try anything,Do you have any proof we evolved from the evolutionary process,I can simply tell you this WE DID NOT EVOLVE,We were created in the image of God,and God created the world,the only way for our life to begin!,Science can not make life,For God makes life.I would love to hear you argue this one. I am not trying to bash,IT just sounds silly for those who reason with everything,
Well Secular Humanism is hard is define but the basic tenets boils down to the importance of human nature and the study of it and how our nature forms our beliefs. It's on the other side of supernaturalism which is puts more importance into supernatural forces. What has led you to this stand most significantly?Thinking, asking questions, being objective and challenging traditions and status quotas, seeking information, analyzing, observing human nature, our patterns, and applying reason logic and empiricism to all topics. Oh and philosophy. I love Socrates/PlatoWhat's the heart of your stand?Compassion and recognizing that all humans have emotions we are all subject to experiences of joy and sorrow. Also that we are capable of both love and hate good or bad. There is a dichotomy to our nature. It is more important to recognize this because to say that humans are always good and benevolent is wrong and say that we are always bad and malicious is equally as wrong. Just to add, A clear thing I've noticed is humans will always rebel against oppression. Whether it be political, religious, societal, or sexual, etc humans find resentment when we are not free. This I think is amazing.Do you take it because of no proof of spiritual things...so that to you it's what is logical in this physical world, or do you take it based on knowledge you've gained that this way is our best Truth or Reality?Mostly because there is hardly any proofs for metaphysical or spiritual things and but again observing people and our interactions. I think that logic, reason, understanding, work better than assumptions, faith, judgments and witch hunts,lol. j/k about the witch hunts. But I think reason, logic, and rational is the best way to seek or obtain knowledge. And what are the key elements to your stand and why you stand herea)I think it would be redundant but again key elements, recognizing human nature, being compassionate to other human being because we essentially feel the same things, applying reason, logic and empiricism, challenging ideas, philosophy, and seeking knowledge before accepting belief.b)Why, because I've found the approach over to be very helpful, and most importantly very effective. History tell us this as well. We've gotten to where we are today through these approaches. We've gotten science for one thing which has given a clearer and better understanding of our nature world, medicine, philosophy, psychology and technology. In a nutshell. Hope that helped, I'd like to hear your progress as well.
QUESTION for you logic,reasoning,empricism,and challenging ideas PEOPLE,One question only a christian could answer,How was the world created,you could believe in the big bang theory,but how was life created from that,You say cells have evolved and made us who we are,But what proof do you have,try to reason this,try anything,Do you have any proof we evolved from the evolutionary process,I can simply tell you this WE DID NOT EVOLVE,We were created in the image of God,and God created the world,the only way for our life to begin!,Science can not make life,For God makes life.I would love to hear you argue this one. I am not trying to bash,IT just sounds silly for those who reason with everything,
(Dukester;36608)
QUESTION for you logic,reasoning,empricism,and challenging ideas PEOPLE,One question only a christian could answer,How was the world created,you could believe in the big bang theory,but how was life created from that,You say cells have evolved and made us who we are,But what proof do you have,try to reason this,try anything,Do you have any proof we evolved from the evolutionary process,I can simply tell you this WE DID NOT EVOLVE,We were created in the image of God,and God created the world,the only way for our life to begin!,Science can not make life,For God makes life.I would love to hear you argue this one. I am not trying to bash,IT just sounds silly for those who reason with everything,
I don't think the purpose of this thread is to debate these issues, but I would just say a few words here.It is, of course, true that no atheist can prove there is no God. Equally, no Christian can prove that there is a God. However, for most atheists, being atheist is not a matter of simply denying God as a principle or "stand". Atheism is simply a lack of God in one's experience of life. I looked for God and never found one. I do not shut my heart to one and would be very happy if one came along
But I see no purpose in simply creating one just to explain what I can't otherwise explain. Humans did that with the sun, moon, fertility, harvests and so on... I doubt anyone nowadays still believes these are gods in themselves, God has been moved back a step - where the sun was once itself a god, it is now just made by God.We do not need to prove atheism, it is what we see and experience all around us. If anything, it is for you to prove otherwise - surely that is your mission given you in Matt 28:19?
QUESTION for you logic,reasoning,empricism,and challenging ideas PEOPLE,One question only a christian could answer,How was the world created,you could believe in the big bang theory,but how was life created from that,You say cells have evolved and made us who we are,But what proof do you have,try to reason this,try anything,Do you have any proof we evolved from the evolutionary process,I can simply tell you this WE DID NOT EVOLVE,We were created in the image of God,and God created the world,the only way for our life to begin!,Science can not make life,For God makes life.I would love to hear you argue this one. I am not trying to bash,IT just sounds silly for those who reason with everything,
I don't think the purpose of this thread is to debate these issues, but I would just say a few words here.It is, of course, true that no atheist can prove there is no God. Equally, no Christian can prove that there is a God. However, for most atheists, being atheist is not a matter of simply denying God as a principle or "stand". Atheism is simply a lack of God in one's experience of life. I looked for God and never found one. I do not shut my heart to one and would be very happy if one came along
See but that is why you have to have FAITH,you can feel God when he you are praying,you can see God whenever he shows you something you have been praying about,and in some cases people have smelled God!Us a christians are not looking for things we can't explain when we believe in our God,we believe because of the things he has done for us and the love!I am not trying to debate it was a question and before I say any more I don't feel like debating
ha
(Dukester;36710)
See but that is why you have to have FAITH,you can feel God when he you are praying,you can see God whenever he shows you something you have been praying about,and in some cases people have smelled God!
I do not feel God when I try praying, nor do I see God because He shows me nothing. That might work for you, but it does not work for me - so why should that mean that I should share your faith? I am glad that it works for you, but that gives you a God, not me....as for smelling God, are you saying that God consists of substance?
Us a christians are not looking for things we can't explain when we believe in our God
I realise that. But you are using God as the explanation of the things that you cannot otherwise explain. That is what humans are all about
In the distant past, we used to sacrifice children to ensure fertility, it was considered a good and holy thing then, but do we believe that now? Our concept of God changes constantly whenever it is proved faulty or ineffective - but we always need some kind of God.
I am not trying to debate it was a question and before I say any more I don't feel like debating
ha
Well. let's call it a friendly discussion, I just hope Siskim doesn't mind
See but that is why you have to have FAITH,you can feel God when he you are praying,you can see God whenever he shows you something you have been praying about,and in some cases people have smelled God!
I do not feel God when I try praying, nor do I see God because He shows me nothing. That might work for you, but it does not work for me - so why should that mean that I should share your faith? I am glad that it works for you, but that gives you a God, not me....as for smelling God, are you saying that God consists of substance?
Us a christians are not looking for things we can't explain when we believe in our God
I realise that. But you are using God as the explanation of the things that you cannot otherwise explain. That is what humans are all about
I am not trying to debate it was a question and before I say any more I don't feel like debating
Well. let's call it a friendly discussion, I just hope Siskim doesn't mind
You are not praying to God to get to know God,You are just looking to see if he is real,True prayer comes from the heart,You must accept God into your life! God can tell fake prayer from real!-I am not saying you should share my faith,For I can not change you if you are not willing to truly open your heart and let God in.~Smelling God a friend of mine from church said it,And I do believe him! Also when I pray the presence of God is so strong I have started shaking!Yes some people do use God to explain things they can't,There will always be things we can not explain and we need to accept that,But God is true,He will all show us the answers when it is time!,Look at the bible the word of our Savior,It predicts events that have happened,try explaining how that is possible!And yes a friendly disscusion
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