Are You Dead to Self?

[APAK]

What do you mean an indication that God is in us...I’m Born Again..Born Of The Spirit..The Holy Spirit indwell my spirit, “ permanently “.


Sorry, none of this makes sense, you are starting to speak “ self” imo, therefore confusion..no disrespect, just my opinion, not saying you are wrong..I’m saying your post doesn’t make sense to me.

I can only learn by the Living Spirit, Brother, that thread imo is full of confusion...for me anyway, just my opinion, which I must speak out...you may understand what you are all saying, I don’t, no problem.

You need to understand RitaJ that the Spirit you now possess means more that just saying a canned statement recording of 'Born Again of this Spirit.' It has more meaning, and that is what I'm trying for you to see, to open your eyes to it. By getting off the penny and seeing what all this glorious work of the Spirit is all about in your life. I apologize if I came off like I've known you for years, I just want to help...

 

[Behold]

What in us is Spirit led @Behold ?

What i asked Epi, and notice he's gone... as that is what he does.
He TRIGGERS, with this false theology, and gets a few people to be his Cheerleader, and then once they are doing his arguing, he goes and has a "Tea" and watches some Netflix, and then hours later, or the next day, he'll show back up, and see that his Thread is not up and running, so, He'll insult someone, and that Triggers them, and then the Thread is continued.

This is what he does.
That's his game.

So, as you see, He didnt reply to me, as he has you to do it......and so he just comes back later to see if you are still defending him, and he'll give you a "like", so that you feel justified.

Its really a very unfortunate situation, but.....it is what it is..

 

[Hobie]

In this time of delusional doctrines and man-made traditions, we are called to walk the separated path - to lose our life now in order to gain it, now and into eternity. Our outer man covering is meant to be sacrificed in order to have the hidden inner man liberated and strengthened from weakness and bondage to the ego - into - an intimate walk with the Lord by grace through faith. Our outer husk needs to be broken in order to free that part of the soul (who we are in God's eyes) into an eternal life. Are we ready to die to that part of us that we have always identified as being our own selves?

Many say they don't follow man or his tradition but if you ask about the Sabbath they cannot answer..

 

[Ritajanice]

What i asked Epi, and notice he's gone... as that is what he does.
He TRIGGERS, with this false theology, and gets a few people to be his Cheerleader, and then once they are doing his arguing, he goes and has a "Tea" and watches some Netflix, and then hours later, or the next day, he'll show back up, and see that his Thread is not up and running, so, He'll insult someone, and that Triggers them, and then the Thread is continued.

This is what he does.
That's his game.

So, as you see, He didnt reply to me, as he has you to do it......and so he just comes back later to see if you are still defending him, and he'll give you a "like", so that you feel justified.

Its really a very unfortunate situation, but.....it is what it is..

Ok, thanks for voicing..which you are entitled to do.xx

 

[Hepzibah]

I've found this passage shows a simple view of righteousness and holiness. Righteousness is doing/being what is right. Holiness is exclusivity for a purpose.

Ephesians 4:24-25 KJV
24) And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
25) Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.

Speaking truth with your neighbor is righteousness. Doing the right thing. Living as members one of another is holiness, being separated out for God's purpose. Being holy, we act righteously.

Now, we can place value on honesty, and speak truth, even though we are not committed to serving others, and instead we are telling the truth out of our sense of, and desire for righteousness. Being committed to nourishing others, giving ourselves fully to others, in our being separated to God, this leads us to do works of righteousness out of our holiness.

Your thoughts?

Much love!

the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Indeed, it is the new man who is declared righteous, not some one who follows after false religions which epi insists on and keeps changing the subject from, after being stuck in a tight corner, and continuing to act in a way that confirms without doubt, a lack of knowledge of life in the Throne Room and then does what psychologists call projection.

It is one thing to become separated from that life for a while, like a plug which is withdrawn from the socket and the power source (Holy Spirit) is lost for a time, where one remembers very well what walking in the Light consists of, but is not being led by the Spirit. We see this when Peter falls for a while and thinks that Jewish customs need to be kept, or when Paul insists on going up to Jerusalem - slipping into human thinking.

But when one acts in the manner of the worst of the unsaved, without love or respect or any grace in communication, then we must doubt the claims as it is not just a slip up but a manner of being, a character trait of arrogance.

 

[Lizbeth]

Yes. We have definite advantages over those who had the law as a tutor. That even sounds like a school...the school of the law..like grade-school. And the New Covenant by grace is like high school (the higher walk )

But the exams are harder in high school than in grade school. So then there is an equivalent difficulty at both levels. For the Israelites it was about a physical Promised Land. For us it is a spiritual heavenly realm (kingdom). But there is so much unbelief in BOTH cases.

Having received grace from God, we are now tested in our faith at that level. This is not a physical test of faith...but a spiritual test of faith. And our record is no better than the ones who went before us. Although I would say that the early church had a kick-start into the race of faith because of all the men and women who had a direct contact with the Lord. After that the devil slowly got the upper hand...turning a living faith into a dead religion to name and claim and justify oneself with...without any faith whatsoever. Creeds and belief systems now prevail.

Bible says that "GREAT grace was upon them all" in the beginning. Yes, a kick-start to get things going, or a rocket boost as I think of it. Plus the fact that the early church was "born" into an environment where there was a cost to count and persecution right from the beginning probably had something to do with it as well.

Most of the western church has had it too easy for it's spiritual good. Except for a remnant. God has ways to chastise and discipline His children and allow suffering in ways that have nothing to do with physical prisons and martyrdom. And not everyone in the west is financially well-off, that's for sure. He gives us our crosses to carry.....and we NEED those crosses and thorns in the flesh in this life to keep our flesh down, because otherwise the flesh would just take over.

Name it and claim it is only profitable where there is genuine faith, true? Which those who know the Lord have received that faith, and thus those promises are yes and amen by faith...... and I can't think the Lord would take it lightly for anyone to try and destroy our faith........but we need to also be growing in our faith......yes I believe to the point of crossing over and conquering and walking in the promised land if you will.

 

[Behold]

You need to understand RitaJ that the Spirit you now possess means more that just saying a canned statement recording of 'Born Again of this Spirit.' It has more meaning, and that is what I'm trying for you to see, to open your eyes to it. By getting off the penny and seeing what all this glorious work of the Spirit is all about in your life. I apologize if I came off like I've known you for years, I just want to help...

Let me show you something readers, Saints, and others...
And some will see this and some will never be able to understand it, and some will just refuse to even want to understand anything that does not agree with what some other deceiving person or cult, or church, or commentary, or forum member, has led them to believe.

A little background,..... first.

In my Lifetime, ive had a few careers, including being a industrial draftsman, and a professional musician..
Ive worked in "Christian" Radio.. and ive been an "officer in a Local Church"..... ive also worked in 2 Hospitals and a Elderly Care center as a specific type of Therapist.

What i did there, regarding Health Care..... was i worked with Coma Patients.
So, this is one of the reasons that i can understand , this.....

1.) Man is Tri-part.

Body
Soul
Spirit

And Reader...... they are not the same thing.. and the reason i can teach that the "soul" is the "mind, will, and emotions" that is separate from the body and the spirit, is because i can understand this, from personal experience, and not just with the NT, but with people, observation,........... = experience in LIFE.

Listen reader.

Its very simple...

When you are in a Coma that is not going to be resolved...... you are "brain dead".. you are living via your "brain stem" that is operating your body functions... like breathing and heart beat and appetite, and urination and similar requirements.

But you are LITERALLY this.. Your eyes are """fixed and dilated" .. Your Pupils are WIDE OPEN, and never shrink, and that is because your BRAIN IS DEAD...
Its offline, and that is a fact.
So, that means your SOUL, (mind-will-emotions) are not functioning any longer. (Brain dead).(COMA).

What is still functioning??


A.) Your SPIRIT is still in the body, and that is the only reason you body has life., as the Spirit is LIFE., born again or not.
And soon enough, this "COMA" is going to end, and that means that your spirit will leave your body, because your body DIED.
And it was already dying as "The body is DEAD because of sin".... already.

Your MIND,= that is your SOUL Realm, your Soul, has been turned off, already, = before your body dies and your spirit leaves your body.

= COMA = BRAIN DEAD....

So, when a person teaches that its their Spirit that is doing all the believing, thinking ,feeling, ......then they are not exactly understanding that its the Soul Real where the mind exists, that is what they mean, but dont understand.

See, its correct to teach that "we are led of the spirit", but its not correct to teach that this is how we THINK and CHOOSE and BELIEVE.

Now...NOTICE.

Jesus made a Choice to go to the Cross, with His MIND, = His Soul Realm, and later as He was about to die because of His Free will CHOICE He made to die for ALL your sin and mine, on the Cross, .. He said this...."Father into YOUR Hands i commend/commit (SEND and Place in YOUR Hands)... my SPIRIT">.

Jesus was making a declaration with His MOUTH, that was his Thinking and Choice that He made with His MIND..= Soul Realm, (mind, will, and emotions), to SEND His SPIRIT that is HIS LIFE that lives in the BODY that He was sacrificing on the Cross for the Sin of the World".

That was not His "soul" or MIND, that was about to LEAVE HIS BODY, as He was describing., Reader.
He was making a CHOICE to DIE, with His FREE WILL, (mind, will, emotions).... to let His SPIRIT leave His BODY, which would end ITS Life... and Did.

 

[Lizbeth]

the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Indeed, it is the new man who is declared righteous, not some one who follows after false religions which epi insists on and keeps changing the subject from, after being stuck in a tight corner, and continuing to act in a way that confirms without doubt, a lack of knowledge of life in the Throne Room and then does what psychologists call projection.

It is one thing to become separated from that life for a while, like a plug which is withdrawn from the socket and the power source (Holy Spirit) is lost for a time, where one remembers very well what walking in the Light consists of, but is not being led by the Spirit. We see this when Peter falls for a while and thinks that Jewish customs need to be kept, or when Paul insists on going up to Jerusalem - slipping into human thinking.

But when one acts in the manner of the worst of the unsaved, without love or respect or any grace in communication, then we must doubt the claims as it is not just a slip up but a manner of being, a character trait of arrogance.

Yes, it's unfortunate........I could have very much enjoyed looking into this topic, but when the OP started out with calling God's people delusional, it was ruined from the start. What did John say, if you don't have love for the brethren you don't have God..?


1Co 13:2
And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

2Ti 2:24
And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,

2Ti 2:25
In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

I wonder what is more pleasing to the Lord, someone with more love and having less faith, or someone with supposedly more faith but without love?

 

[Peterlag]

Man is Tri-Part

Body
Soul
Spirit

You live in a Body
Your Soul is your (Mind, Will, and Emotions)
Your Spirit is the real you, as its the part of you that is BORN AGAIN, and becomes the "Son-Daughter" 0f God, and eventually gets the new body.

Okay this is good. Now let me see if I understand this.

1.) The soul is not breathe life.
2.) The soul is our mind, will, and emotions.

3.) If the spirit is the real me, as it's the part of me that is BORN AGAIN, and eventually gets the new body. Then why is the soul in the grave and the spirit back with God?

 

[Episkopos]

the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Indeed, it is the new man who is declared righteous, not some one who follows after false religions which epi insists on

1. The New Man is not us...but Christ. We put on Christ as a covering...likewise the New Man.

2. Sinners can be declared righteous...who still sin afterward. Read the bible.


3. God justifies the ungodly. If you would get off your high horse and be merciful as God is...you would see that to be justified as a righteous person you need to look beyond the blinders of your religious ideas about God. God is merciful, He cares for the poor, the needy, the oppressed. Jesus coming to Earth doesn't change God's nature. God is love. For God so judged the world???? Or is God more compassionate than we imagine Him to be...???

4. To NOT understand righteousness on both levels means you can't understand what Jesus fulfilled. He came to fulfill ALL righteousness...on both levels. Jesus had to learn how to do the lower righteousness as He already had an eternal righteousness. That's why He got baptized in water. Water baptism is about righteousness...Spirit baptism is about holiness.

Jesus had to learn how to obey humans...not just His Father. Like His earthly parents. When He was absent from them...they worried for Him when maybe they didn't need to. But the confidence of Jesus in His Father needed to be tempered by an earthly responsibility towards those who were responsible for Him in His earthly capacity. Jesus grew in THAT kind of wisdom..which is a temporal kind of wisdom based on human righteousness.

and keeps changing the subject from, after being stuck in a tight corner, and continuing to act in a way that confirms without doubt, a lack of knowledge of life in the Throne Room and then does what psychologists call projection.

Don't get in a religious snit. You are offended because you are stumbling over Christ. Jesus is BOTH a shelter AND a rock of offense...a stumbling-stone. The Jews don't see Jesus having a higher level of righteousness than ordinary humans...neither do they see His holiness. Modern believers stumble over Christ's humanity. (He who is not against us is for us). Getting lofty in our minds doesn't follow the amazing humility in Christ. So by missing out on Jesus' humility...we throw out righteousness, mercy, and other weightier aspects of the law. We end up holding the truth in UNrighteousness...as Paul warns us. We are called into Christ to also fulfill ALL righteousness..with His help. The higher righteousness does not throw out the lower righteousness. It is ALL righteousness...or else it is we who are transgressors of the law...making Jesus a minister of sin (iniquity)

It is one thing to become separated from that life for a while, like a plug which is withdrawn from the socket and the power source (Holy Spirit) is lost for a time, where one remembers very well what walking in the Light consists of, but is not being led by the Spirit. We see this when Peter falls for a while and thinks that Jewish customs need to be kept, or when Paul insists on going up to Jerusalem - slipping into human thinking.

Walking in the Spirit goes far beyond only being led by the Spirit. One can be led by the Spirit in the wilderness stage. But one can only BE in the Spirit in the Promised Land. It's about location. Holiness is about location. That is...the very presence of God.

Does it say...Moses, take your shoes from off your feet because the ground you are standing on is righteous?

Holiness is about God's actual presence. Righteousness is about going about to obey God's commandments...even when He's not there!

But when one acts in the manner of the worst of the unsaved, without love or respect or any grace in communication, then we must doubt the claims as it is not just a slip up but a manner of being, a character trait of arrogance.

I accept your apology.

 

[Behold]

Okay this is good. Now let me see if I understand this.

1.) The soul is not breathe life.
2.) The soul is our mind, will, and emotions.

3.) If the spirit is the real me, as it's the part of me that is BORN AGAIN, and eventually gets the new body. Then why is the soul in the grave and the spirit back with God?

Gen 2:7 "God breathed into Adam" the breath of Life..

Adam became a living SOUL.... yet, Its the SPIRiT of God that is the LIFE in Adam., and its the spirit in us that is BORN again.. .not our mind or our body.

So, you have the mind and the Spirit, and both are created to LIVE, inside the body.

Notice, Reader..... right now you are THINKING......and that is your "mind-will -emotions".
And the reason your body has LIFE in it, is because that is your SPIRIT.

So both of these are alive, but one is THE Life, and that is your Spirit.

See, a Coma patient, is brain dead, so that is their soul realm, (mind , will, and emotions) that no longer exists in them... its gone.

YET they are still breathing because their SPIRIT that is the life of the Body, and is the real US.... is still alive in them.


Now, in John 20:22, Jesus "BREATHED on the 11 Apostles" and told them..>"receive you the SPIRIT".

So, in Gen 2:7, and now in John 20, we see "Let us make man in OUR Image".. giving BREATH.

In Gen 2:7, this breath of God, was 2 part,, it was to bring Adam's MIND (soul) into being and also Adam's body became alive because the Spirit was put in there.. by God.

IN John 20... Jesus didnt develop or create the Apostle's minds, as that was not necessary, but they didnt yet have the Spirit of Christ., so, Jesus gave it to them..

 

[Lizbeth]

the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Indeed, it is the new man who is declared righteous, not some one who follows after false religions which epi insists on and keeps changing the subject from, after being stuck in a tight corner, and continuing to act in a way that confirms without doubt, a lack of knowledge of life in the Throne Room and then does what psychologists call projection.

It is one thing to become separated from that life for a while, like a plug which is withdrawn from the socket and the power source (Holy Spirit) is lost for a time, where one remembers very well what walking in the Light consists of, but is not being led by the Spirit. We see this when Peter falls for a while and thinks that Jewish customs need to be kept, or when Paul insists on going up to Jerusalem - slipping into human thinking.

But when one acts in the manner of the worst of the unsaved, without love or respect or any grace in communication, then we must doubt the claims as it is not just a slip up but a manner of being, a character trait of arrogance.

Sister, I would like to ask if you have any thoughts about repentance with regard to this whole topic. It occurs to me that repentance is needed to receive/enter into the second blessing that you mentioned....much like the first, only deeper....? And if so, I imagine repentance would be needed to get back to that state if one did receive it but has fallen away from it?

Don't know if I'm saying it quite right but it occurred to me that repentance hasn't been discussed on Epi's threads to do with this topic, that I have seen. Can't help but feel it must play a role. Attitude of penitence....humble and contrite heart....Godly sorrow......to go along with faith..?

 

[Peterlag]

Gen 2:7 "God breathed into Adam" the breath of Life..

Adam became a living SOUL.... yet, Its the SPIRiT of God that is the LIFE in Adam., and its the spirit in us that is BORN again.. .not our mind or our body.

So, you have the mind and the Spirit, and both are created to LIVE, inside the body.

Notice, Reader..... right now you are THINKING......and that is your "mind-will -emotions".
And the reason your body has LIFE in it, is because that is your SPIRIT.

So both of these are alive, but one is THE Life, and that is your Spirit.

See, a Coma patient, is brain dead, so that is their soul realm, (mind , will, and emotions) that no longer exists in them... its gone.

YET they are still breathing because their SPIRIT that is the life of the Body, and is the real US.... is still alive in them.


Now, in John 20:22, Jesus "BREATHED on the 11 Apostles" and told them..>"receive you the SPIRIT".

So, in Gen 7, and now in John 20, we see "Let us make man in OUR Image".. giving BREATH.

In Gen 7, this breath of God, was 2 part,, it was to bring Adam's MIND (soul) into being and also Adam's body became alive because the Spirit was put in there.. by God.

IN John 20... Jesus didnt develop the Apostle's minds, as that was not necessary, but they didnt yet have the Spirit of Christ., so, Jesus gave it to them..

E.W. Bullinger says the soul...

Is used for a person as possessed.
It can die or be killed.
It goes to the grave.
It's identified with the blood and the spirit never is.
The soul is the same as me.

Job 33:22
Yea, his soul draweth near unto the grave, and his life to the destroyers.

Psalms 16:10
For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

 

[Ritajanice]

I tell you what imo...I deleted 3 posts of mine on here, because imo I was listening to my emotions, well, let me tell you, don’t play on my emotions, on what you think about me...your opinion goes straight over my head, that is unless the Lord speaks to my heart regarding your opinion...

Whatever the Lord places on my heart to say, it will be said...Born Of The Spirit....isn’t an insignificant few words.,,,there is Power ,Life and Freedom in being Born Again...

 

[Behold]

E.W. Bullinger says the soul...

That teacher is a heretic.
Get rid of his "bible' and all of his commentaries.

He teaches that there were 4 Crosses, and not 3, and he teaches that you dont have the spirit of God in you.

Bullinger is "spiritual poison".

I know you dont want to hear this, but, as im the one you told about Him, then i have only the option to tell you that that teacher is a heretic.

 

[Hepzibah]

Sister, I would like to ask if you have any thoughts about repentance with regard to this whole topic. It occurs to me that repentance is needed to receive/enter into the second blessing that you mentioned....much like the first, only deeper....? And if so, I imagine repentance would be needed to get back to that state if one did receive it but has fallen away from it?

Don't know if I'm saying it quite right but it occurred to me that repentance hasn't been discussed on Epi's threads to do with this topic, that I have seen. Can't help but feel it must play a role. Attitude of penitence....humble and contrite heart....Godly sorrow......to go along with faith..?

Hello Sister, yes, if we look at Paul in Romans 7, after he has seen himself as a 'wretched man' in his inability to obey God through unintentional sin, and cries out for mercy.

God will usually bring us though a great trail to get to this place, where a great depth of repentance is needed, far above that of which we have usually responded to from the normal day to day conviction of the Holy Spirit. This time we are face-down in the dust and see just how despicable we are, failing God daily and putting Him to shame and will have that desire above all else to be right with Him.

It is a work of grace to get to this stage, but we can help things along for example by reading testimonies and lives of great saints and deciding that we can no longer go on as we are.

To recover a lost position in heavenly places we also need the conviction from God to show us we have fallen, but one time I was restored was after reading the Salvation Army Booth who said that we must just believe it like at the beginning and step out in faith on it. It worked for me but not since.

Once we are ES'ed it is a daily matter to walk with a repentant heart.

Edit - One problem we have today in our lukewarm churches, is that any conviction from the Holy Spirit is often ignored with the reasoning 'I am already a child of God, get thee behind me Satan' which is the unforgiveable sin.

 

[Behold]

Hello Sister, yes, if we look at Paul in Romans 7, after he has seen himself as a 'wretched man' in his inability to obey God through unintentional sin, and cries out for mercy.

What you posted, is only the VERY beginning of Paul's teaching.. that continues.

He is teaching that to show you that this is the : Hebrews 6:1 type of Christianity.. Its the baby stage. Its the stage of knowing nothing, except what isnt' connected to Salvation, that the baby believer, keeps trying to do.
So, the context of Romans 7, can be found In Philippians 3, and Hebrews 6:1

Dont be that one, Reader.

God will usually bring us though a great trail to get to this place, where a great depth of repentance is needed,

To grow in God's Grace is not found by repenting.
Its found by working our your Salvation.

How do you do that?

You learn who you have become, as a ""New Creation, in Christ", "seated in Heavenly places"........exactly as God understand this ABOUT ALL = the Born again.
And to get THAT MIND, is what Paul teaches as..>"As many as be PERFECT"... "all of one Mind".

To recover a lost position in heavenly places

A born again Christian will never lose their place in Heaven, as they exit "in Christ", already.

 

[Hepzibah]

Thank you brother but we are talking about different understandings of what historic Christianity is, and also the Christianity of the great revivals in the west. Of course there are variations which you exhibit. The testing point is do we walk as Christ walked?

 

[Behold]

Thank you brother but we are talking about different understandings of what historic Christianity is,

Actually that is not what you are posting..

You were posting the usual... "Romans 7 is Christianity", and notice that Paul could not do what He wanted, and was always doing what He didnt want to do.

See that?
That is a THEOLOGY that is world wide, Forum wide......that is taught by people who have no understanding of The Cross of Christ, because they read in a commentary, Romans 7, created by a Heretic, who deceived them.

They tell you....."""""""See How Paul was messed up.?"""""""""
= """"That will be your Christianity...."you'll sin......repent.....repeat"."""""

That is how heretics abuse Paul's Romans 7, and then try to deceive Christians who are not students of the bible, into believing that they can't live in the END of Paul's Teaching..., that they never read.

Its this..

"CHRIST ALWAYS gives ME, the VICTORY".. over the world, the flesh and the Devil.

So, that does not "sound" like Romans 7, and that is because its the END of Paul's teaching, and most Christians, never get past Romans 7, because that is what their commentary taught them., so they believed this deception, often, till they die.

 

[Hepzibah]

I do not follow Calvin/Augustine and the theology you describe. You grossly misunderstand me.