Are you here to convert people?

[BarneyFife]

This one may well be an offshoot of the one I quoted from Solomon.

They generally are. He did say there's nothing new under the sun. That's easy for him to say - lol.

It also may bring us a smile or a laugh... but when it comes to laughing at people, unless we are laughing at ourselves, should we leave it to God?

I don't know. I tend to think you're right. I'm not even sure it's helpful to laugh at ourselves too much. But I have not yet apprehended yet, so I'm reserving judgment on that, officially. My signature now features a little disclaimer along those lines. Perhaps (?) your comment was providential.

 

[Matthias]

I've gotten the same impression about you many times since I first arrived here.

You don't think there's any truth to that accusation at all?

Thanks. No, I don’t.

If I was trying to convert anyone - which is an exercise in utter futility - I wouldn’t have changed my registration to “Other Faith” and voluntarily denied myself access to the audience which has posting privileges in the “Christian’s Only” forums of the Board.

Do you know of any other Christian who has done that?

The majority of my posts on this website consist of cartoons, music, and encouragement of others to read widely, deeply, thoughtfully and critically - and above all, to read the Bible.

I’ve confined myself to sections of the Board which are seldom frequented.

Now let me ask you. Are you here trying to convert anyone? Would you like to convert me?

You don’t share the Statement of Faith endorsed by the owner of the Biard, yet you still post in forums marked “Christians Only”. Why are you, a unitarian, posting in those forums?

 

[amadeus]

They generally are. He did say there's nothing new under the sun. That's easy for him to say - lol.

I don't know. I tend to think you're right. I'm not even sure it's helpful to laugh at ourselves too much. But I have not yet apprehended yet, so I'm reserving judgment on that, officially. My signature now features a little disclaimer along those lines. Perhaps (?) your comment was providential.

I wrote the following in 2009 on the subject of laughing at myself:


People laugh at people. Laughing at others of course can cause pain, but laughing at ourselves is often one of the best things we can do for the benefit of others and for ourselves.

The scripture says, "Every way of a man is right in his own eyes..." [Prov 21:2], but it also says; "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;" [Rom 3:23]

God laughs at the foolish efforts of vain men, ["He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision." Psalms 2:4].

"Every man" and "all" include those with the title “Doctor” in front of their names and the greatest of football heroes on the field and the lowest bums on the street. We all believe we are right and we all have sinned, but the scripture also says “Be ye therefore perfect, even as your father which is in heaven is perfect” [Matt 5:48]. Before we can become perfect like Him we must follow His lead. Jesus tells us to come to Him as a little child and to take the lowest place at the table. If we are to be elevated let it be the Master that elevates us rather than our own presumption or pride. Come to Him as a child, feeble, weak, foolish and inept. Recognize that on our own we do not deserve even the lowest place at His table. Our own best efforts are simply filthy rags compared to Him. Before He will take us higher, we need to recognize how low we really are when we are on our own… We should be able to either laugh and/or cry about our own shortcomings.

Jesus overcame the world of His flesh and with His help so can we. To rise to the top, we must always start at the bottom. First comes cleaning out the garbage and then comes the refilling of the vessel with the good things of God.

As a young man, I was seldom able to laugh at my own shortcomings because I believed that most everybody was laughing at them already [silently if not out loud]. Of course that was never true, but I did not recognize it at the time... The truth is that most people are too involved in themselves to really care about me or anyone else. We all begin, as very selfish creatures in order to preserve natural life before we are able understand what is happening. It is a long trip from nearly perfect selfishness to perfect selflessness!

Can I laugh at myself yet?

Sometimes!

 

[Matthias]

I'm here because I get bored really.

I can understand that. I hope that being here helps you cope with it.

I’m here, primarily, for some respite from the stress of caring for a cancer patient.

People are converted to Christianity by the Holy Ghost actually. We can speak and the Holy Ghost testifies that what we said was true though.

Well said.

I would also like to hear in this thread from persons who don’t self-identify as Christian.

Atheists, for example. Are they here to try to convert others?

 

[BarneyFife]

I wrote the following in 2009 on the subject of laughing at myself:


People laugh at people. Laughing at others of course can cause pain, but laughing at ourselves is often one of the best things we can do for the benefit of others and for ourselves.

The scripture says, "Every way of a man is right in his own eyes..." [Prov 21:2], but it also says; "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;" [Rom 3:23]

God laughs at the foolish efforts of vain men, ["He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision." Psalms 2:4].

"Every man" and "all" include those with the title “Doctor” in front of their names and the greatest of football heroes on the field and the lowest bums on the street. We all believe we are right and we all have sinned, but the scripture also says “Be ye therefore perfect, even as your father which is in heaven is perfect” [Matt 5:48]. Before we can become perfect like Him we must follow His lead. Jesus tells us to come to Him as a little child and to take the lowest place at the table. If we are to be elevated let it be the Master that elevates us rather than our own presumption or pride. Come to Him as a child, feeble, weak, foolish and inept. Recognize that on our own we do not deserve even the lowest place at His table. Our own best efforts are simply filthy rags compared to Him. Before He will take us higher, we need to recognize how low we really are when we are on our own… We should be able to either laugh and/or cry about our own shortcomings.

Jesus overcame the world of His flesh and with His help so can we. To rise to the top, we must always start at the bottom. First comes cleaning out the garbage and then comes the refilling of the vessel with the good things of God.

As a young man, I was seldom able to laugh at my own shortcomings because I believed that most everybody was laughing at them already [silently if not out loud]. Of course that was never true, but I did not recognize it at the time... The truth is that most people are too involved in themselves to really care about me or anyone else. We all begin, as very selfish creatures in order to preserve natural life before we are able understand what is happening. It is a long trip from nearly perfect selfishness to perfect selflessness!

Can I laugh at myself yet?

Sometimes!

Well, I can see why you gasped at the second of my little epigrams! lol

It's not too hard to write up some pretty insightful stuff if you stick to the wisdom of the Bible, is it?

John, if I lived to be 1000, I don't think I'd appreciate nearly enough what the Bible has done for the cause of sanity.

PRAISE THE LORD FOR THE GIFT OF HIS WORD!!!

 

[BarneyFife]

Do you know of any other Christian who has done that?

Would it afford them any virtue if they did? Couldn't help asking, sorry.

 

[Matthias]

Would it afford them any virtue if they did? Couldn't help asking, sorry.

I haven’t given it any thought.

Does it matter to them if I think it would afford them any virtue? I doubt it.

Do they think it would afford them any virtue if they followed my example? Only they could answer that question. As far as I’m aware, none have followed my example. Maybe they haven’t given it any thought. Maybe they have thought about it and decided, for whatever reason, not to. My assumption is that they post in those forums with a clear conscience.

I did it out of consideration for Christians who took exception to my Ante-Nicene Christian faith and were offended (some, in fact, were outraged and outspoken about it) by my presence in “Christian Only” forums. I offered a creative compromise to resolve the conflict and it was accepted. I consider it a win-win situation, but not everyone does. (In addition to being falsely accused of being here to convert Nicene affirming Christians to Ante-Nicene Christianity, I was also accused by the same person of being “sneaky”.)

I don’t seek out those who have posting privileges in the “Christian Only“ forums. If those who do have any interest in speaking with me, they have to seek me out in forums where non-Christians are allowed to post. I’m delighted to speak with anyone, no matter what their belief, who wants to speak with me. I’m content with not being able to speak with those who post in the “Christian Only” forums.

Is that virtuous? I think so. Whether it is or not, I post with a clear conscience.

 

[GEN2REV]

Thanks. No, I don’t.

If I was trying to convert anyone - which is an exercise in utter futility - I wouldn’t have changed my registration to “Other Faith” and voluntarily denied myself access to the audience which has posting privileges in the “Christian’s Only” forums of the Board.

Do you know of any other Christian who has done that?

The majority of my posts on this website consist of cartoons, music, and encouragement of others to read widely, deeply, thoughtfully and critically - and above all, to read the Bible.

I’ve confined myself to sections of the Board which are seldom frequented.

Now let me ask you. Are you here trying to convert anyone? Would you like to convert me?

You don’t share the Statement of Faith endorsed by the owner of the Biard, yet you still post in forums marked “Christians Only”. Why are you, a unitarian, posting in those forums?

I was convinced you were made to change your faith title from Christian to other faith by the Mods here as you were preaching and teaching Jesus is not God for quite some time until they made the recent forum changes here. Now you can't speak about that anymore and your title is changed to other faith.

I wouldn't say I intend to convert anyone so much as to counter false doctrine here, or anywhere, that I encounter it. It is a Biblically-stated responsibility of Christians to do so.

Christian means follower of Christ. I'm a follower of Christ and the Bible. The Bible teaches Oneness doctrine, it does not teach the concept of God being three people anywhere so .... I'm clearly a Christian.

A person cannot be a Christian if they don't believe Christ is God. Kinda goes without saying in my opinion, but some would disagree. They don't know much about Christianity or the Bible if they do.

 

[ButterflyJones]

Did you have in mind converting non-Christians to Christians, or something more general?

Over the years, I've played on several Christian forums, and I have noticed that a number of people come with a particular theological axe to grind. It might be Calvinism, or Universalism, or anti-Catholicism, or any number of pro- and anti- "isms". I would put those in the category of "trying to convert people" to their particular viewpoint.

Debate itself is a type of persuasion, not necessarily conversion.

 

[Matthias]

I was convinced you were made to change your faith title from Christian to other faith by the Mods here as you were preaching and teaching Jesus is not God for quite some time until they made the recent changes here. Now you can't speak about that anymore and your title is changed to other faith.

The moderators didn’t force me to change my registration. I volunteered to change it and they approved the change. The only thing they asked me not to do was to start threads in the non-Christian forums about the topics which must not be discussed. (At the time I made the proposal it was still possible to do so in non-Christian forums. That was changed a couple of weeks ago.) I assured them that I had no interest or intention of starting such threads and I haven’t.

I believe, preach and teach that Jesus is functionally God. The new policy doesn’t allow discussion about it.

I wouldn't say I intend to convert anyone so much as to counter false doctrine here, or anywhere, that I encounter it. It is a Biblically-stated responsibility of Christians to do so.

Your doctrine isn’t the doctrine endorsed by the Board. Your doctrine is considered to be false doctrine in the eyes of those who affirm Nicene Christianity - the owner, the administrators, the moderators, the staff and probably the majority of the members.

Christian means follower of Christ.

It was initially a derogatory term.

I'm a follower of Christ and the Bible.

So am I.

The Bible teaches Oneness doctrine, it does not teach the concept of God being three people anywhere so .... I'm clearly a Christian.

Board policy doesn’t allow discussion - for or against - your unitarian faith; just as it doesn’t allow discussion of the concept which you are speaking against in your post.

A person cannot be a Christian if they don't believe Christ is God. Kinda goes without saying in my opinion, but some would disagree. They don't know much about Christianity or the Bible if they do.

Christianity is historically much broader than the average person here exhibits being aware of. Maybe they are aware and simply choose to narrow it down to Nicene Christianity.

 

[RLT63]

Thanks. No, I don’t.

If I was trying to convert anyone - which is an exercise in utter futility - I wouldn’t have changed my registration to “Other Faith” and voluntarily denied myself access to the audience which has posting privileges in the “Christian’s Only” forums of the Board.

Do you know of any other Christian who has done that?

The majority of my posts on this website consist of cartoons, music, and encouragement of others to read widely, deeply, thoughtfully and critically - and above all, to read the Bible.

I’ve confined myself to sections of the Board which are seldom frequented.

Now let me ask you. Are you here trying to convert anyone? Would you like to convert me?

You don’t share the Statement of Faith endorsed by the owner of the Biard, yet you still post in forums marked “Christians Only”. Why are you, a unitarian, posting in those forums?

Sometimes a discussion can make me think about things so maybe it opens my mind a little. But trying to convert someone on a forum is an exercise in futility

 

[Matthias]

The only way anyone has any chance of converting me.

If we convert it’s because we choose to.

They must first show me that they care about me. And then they need to befriend me. Then I might consider their point of view.

I understand where you’re coming from. Showing that we genuinely care about others goes a long way. So does befriending. Cults know that too and use it to their advantage. Just a word of caution.

On the other hand, I’ll listen to someone else’s point of view whether or not they demonstrate that they care about me and / or befriend me. Maybe that stems from my teaching background. Maybe it has to do with my personality.

Even as a child I always wanted to know what people believed and why they believed it.

 

[GEN2REV]

So am I.

Is it your opinion that judaism is identical to Christianity?

 

[Matthias]

Sometimes a discussion can make me think about things so maybe it opens my mind a little.

That’s why I encourage discussion and stay far away from debate.

Discussion allows us to learn and consider. Maybe we‘re persuaded and change our minds. Maybe we aren’t persuaded and don’t. That is a win-win proposition.

Debate is verbal warfare. It closes minds and hardens hearts. When I was involved in debating I really wasn’t listening to what the opposing debater had to say. It didn’t matter. I didn’t care. My heart was as hardened and my heels dug in just as much as were the heart and heels of those I was debating. That is a lose-lose proposition.

But trying to convert someone on a forum is an exercise in futility

I’m with you. The person who falsely accused me must not be.

 

[Matthias]

Is it your opinion that judaism is identical to Christianity?

No.

 

[GEN2REV]

No.

But you claim to be a jewish monotheist ... who claims to be a Christian.

Right?

How does that work?

What's the difference between jewish monotheism and judaism?

 

[RLT63]

That’s why I encourage discussion and stay far away from debate.

Discussion allows us to learn and consider. Maybe we‘re persuaded and change our minds. Maybe we aren’t persuaded and don’t. That is a win-win proposition.

Debate is verbal warfare. It closes minds and hardens hearts. When I was involved in debating I really wasn’t listening to what the opposing debater had to say. It didn’t matter. I didn’t care. My heart was as hardened and my heels dug in just as much as were the heart and heels of those I was debating. That is a lose-lose proposition.



I’m with you. The person who falsely accused me must not be.

When I first got on a forum the first thing I realized was that a lot of the YEC stuff I had been reading simply wasn’t true. I never believed that the earth was only 6,000 years old but I liked what they said about evolution, radiometric dating and the authority of the Bible.
I quickly learned how biased what I had been reading was. And I had more sense than to argue with scientists about science

 

[Matthias]

But you claim to be a jewish monotheist ... who claims to be a Christian.

Right?

Right.

How does that work?

As is well-known, Christianity began as a sect of, and within, Judaism. The founder of the sect is Jewish. The first Christians, his disciples, were Jews. Later gentiles came to be numbered among them. Theirs is what is called in academic circles “primitive Christianity.“ They are Ante-Nicene Christians. (A category which in itself is quite diverse, covering a period spanning from the 1st century to late in the 4th century.)

Nicene Christianity moved beyond “primitive Christianity”. (See the Council of Nicaea in 325 and the clarifying Council of Constantinople in 381.) Your own unitarian faith, though different than mine, falls within this Ante-Nicene period.

What's the difference between jewish monotheism and judaism?

Judaism is about much more than just monotheism.

 

[Matthias]

When I first got on a forum the first thing I realized was that a lot of the YEC stuff I had been reading simply wasn’t true. I never believed that the earth was only 6,000 years old but I liked what they said about evolution, radiometric dating and the authority of the Bible.
I quickly learned how biased what I had been reading was. And I had more sense than to argue with scientists about science

I‘m open on the issue of young earth vs. old earth.

My father was a professional geologist (oil exploration) and, though raised Christian, an agnostic. He influenced me in my youth in the direction of old earth. Paleontology is still one of my hobbies. His parents influenced me in the direction of Christianity, and they were young earth.

 

[ScottA]

A few days ago a member of the forum asserted that I’m here to convert people. The assertion is false but it has caused me to wonder if there are members - Christian and / or non-Christian - who post on Christianity Board with the intention of converting other members - or persons who are readers but not members of Christianity Board - to whatever their religious affiliation might be.

So, are you here to convert people?

Good question!

No, I personally am not here, or consider it my gift or calling, to "convert" anyone.

What I am here for is rather along the lines of my God-given gift and calling, which is to bring an end to what has falsely been sold as life and the lies that have even corrupted the Church, with the actual truth. What does that mean? It means that we are all born into a world that has a set of rules and would-be reality that are not actually of God, but of us--this is us being revealed during the times of our lives, most of which is according to this world and against the God who created it, which is soon coming to an end. These are the mysteries of life that have not been fully realized, because we have been preoccupied with ourselves and thereby blinded to the whole truth of what is true of life according to God. Which is to say: There is a train wreck up ahead, and everyone who is on the tracks of this world will want to know just how to avoid ending up in a heap or dead.

So...God created the world as a form of birth, and yet death is coming.

Each generation has come to be revealing the heart of each person, out of darkness into the light of this world, whether good or evil, wherein a still small voice whispers the truth down through the ages; and if one is inclined to hear it, it is because their makeup is from God...if not, it is only from evil. Thus, some are the problem, and some are the solution. In other words, we who at heart are of God, hear and answer the voice and call of God, and testify of it, that others also might hear. In this way, those who have ears to hear have become the servants of God, some prophets, some teachers, some preachers, and many more giving testimony by a variety of gifts--gifts given to us by God through His Son who came to save those who heard and looked forward to His coming, or looked back at His coming and have believed.

Even so, to accommodate the multitude of all who are born throughout all of history, God's plan to rescue those who would hear and come to love Him, has been limited to a little truth here and a little truth there until all have come into the world. Along the way, however, the witnesses and testimonies of truth have been corrupted 1) intentionally, that the days should be prolonged until the children of these many generations could be born in their time, and 2) to confound those evil living among us. But for the sake of the children born to God, the lies were to eventually be revealed near the time of the end. Biblically, this refers to what Jesus promised of being "lead unto all truth", the fulfillment of which was to be finished just prior to the "sounding of the seventh angel." This is that time.

So...be prepared, and wise enough, to be corrected-- for many have learned what was false but sold as the truth. It's all part of the plan.